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Comments
However three things are worth noting:
1) the negative comments about VSC are very similar to those 10 or so years ago about ABS..ie real drivers don't need it and it gets in the way when driving hard...etc etc...well times have changed and so have attitudes.
2) VSC is very similar to BMW's DSC which is on the M3 and M5..now these are REAL drivers cars and it seems the driving gods at BMW think its a good idea....as do Corvette...plus MB etc etc.
3) finally you may think you don't need it and can drive well enough...but remember this one fact...VSC comes on when YOU HAVE LOST CONTROL...well maybe your good enough to get it back...maybe not...but if its wet and you have lost traction and the tail has come out past 40 degrees???...well its times like these that I am thankful for a computer that can brake ONE of my front tires and GENERATE a COUNTER ROTATIONAL SPIN on the car and stablize it....
and if none of the above makes any sense to you...just turn the f..thing off
Does anyone know if Lexus is going to do anything to make the interior look less cheap and more "Lexus-like?"
Too much econocar-looking plain plastic.
Lexus has said that they will address the perceived cheap look, but they did not say if they are going to wait until the next all-new version of the IS comes out or if they will improve it in the current body style.
S852,
I believe for one, that Lexus is getting rid of the silver trim on the dashboard that, personally, really makes the IS300 interior look cheap. It is supposed to be getting replaced with black trim all-around. Otherwise, a real center armrest is coming.
A total redo will have to wait until a new IS300 is introduced. Until then, the same basic interior will stay.
In my REAL WORLD experience with VSC...on two VSC equipped cars in MY GARAGE...VSC comes on only after a CONSIDERABLE amount of break away...either understeering or oversteering. Every time it has come on, I have been happy to have the intervention. Its happened several times in the wet and on snow...never in the dry.
On one occasion in my GS300 I was turning left across a wet road...accelerating slowly I thought...when the tail rather violently came out...I had been caught out by a unique set of circumstance...a negative road camber...wet conditions from run off...and just a tad more power from a very tired driver...anyway the VSC came on and corrected the car...only after I was convinced that a full spin was unavoidable and uncorrectable.
Frankly ANY time you have oversteer or understeer is an example of loss of control ... PERIOD.
...maybe you want to put a car into a slide for the fun of it...if so turn the VSC off. But neither of these are examples of good driving technique.
But please do not label VSC as a bad thing...VSC or similar is on virtually every high performance car.
I wonder if anyone took any good pictures of the interior and posted them online?
I priced a 2001 ES300 with value package and heated seats and a 2001 IS300 with leather, heated seats and moonroof and the ES actually came out cheaper. Amazing.
You have to really prefer the IS300 to buy one, because it is not the cheapest way to get a new Lexus.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/010110-6.htm
TIA
Keoni_808
Being that you live in Hawaii, it may be a bit tougher due to lack of competition. But heck, be presistent and demand more for less!
I was wondering about IS300 specific reliability and build quality. How are your cars doing? Any minor squeaks/rattles issues? I have not read of problems on this board save possible and very specific problems with transmission (?)...so I take it as a good thing (?) or...
I see that the 2002s (with improvements) are out in September...does that mean dealers might/will take orders in the summer? How would you anticipate pricing then on orders/available 2002s etc.
Also, I see no one has brought up the subject...so I'll venture off. To all owners/prospective buyers, what are your feelings about resale value of the IS few years down the road. As we know, the IS philosophy is different than Lexus' other offerings so we shouldn't assume same resale value/marketability despite Lexus quality/reliability. IMHO the IS is catering to more narrowly scoped market as oppossed to Lexus' other offerings. Although great for enthusiasts/fans but that will hurt resale, wouldn't it? I mean, we are already seeing that Lexus is failing to meet their sales targets but that could be due to overestimating and also the market hasn't been introduced to the manual-transmission IS plus new refinements (designed to increase appeal (?)) I guess, if Lexus is successful in the repositioning of the 2002 IS with its new goodies, resale value will be a little more assured.
I would like to hear your feelings/opinions on resale value.
IMHO the IS is a bold step by Lexus and an initially risky one at that(for Lexus). As a result, the IS have been the center of much debate from factions of other brand/marques. But regardless of the issues, the marketplace is a better and richer one at that with bold 'out-there' models like the IS and everyone wins in the end. :-) Wish they had brought in the 2 litre with Turbo instead of the 3 litre, that would have been great and might help regenerate interest in turbocharged pocket-rockets currently spear headed by the WRX. my $0.02...
Additionally, I wanted to know of owners who bought these fine machines and how they feel about resale. i.e. What are their thoughts and feelings on this issue.
*Eventhough, one could argue the rationale for a purchase of a car like the IS is one of the heart and hence resale values will not factor in...no true enthusiast/fan will ever think of selling their cars in the short term. This is in contrast to owners of 'appliance' cars like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, where resale value is a priority.*
I am looking to buy and curious about resale of IS 3-5 years down the road as I like to upgrade/change cars after warranty is over.
Thank you.
Howzit, Keoni! I live on Maui and got my IS thru Servco Lexus Maui (as if we have a choice). Before buying here, I called a dealer in Oregon, said that I'm calling from Hawaii to get a quote. He immediately said that he can't give me a quote over the phone, nor could any other dealer in North America. I'm like... WHY?? Did you know that Servco has a control over the Hawaii market for Lexus sales? So, I called back, didn't say where I was calling from and asked for a quote. Believe it or not, the price was about $100 less than what I got mine for. So I guess I ended up with a good deal (for that period in time, which was July 2000), if you calculate airline tickets, transportation and lodging.
I am very happy with my car and still get compliments on it till this day!
TIA
http://www.freshalloy.com/cars/nissan/altima/2002.firstreport01.html
Nissan Altima + "Nissan" badge + 0 is certainly not in BMW class.
Would they be in same class if Altima got an Infiniti badge? What if the IS/Altezza were sold as a Toyota like in other countries? Then would "Infiniti Altima" be higher class?
Let's see...2002 Altima is bigger, faster, nicer interior etc. IS costs more and has Lexus badge, so must be higher class? Confusing!
I'd consider both also, and evaluate each on its own merits.
To truly determine if the new Altima can compete with the IS300 as a driver's car, I'll have to wait for the opportunity to test drive one.
IMO, the current Altima isn't as an exciting an option to own and drive as the IS300.
I must say raybear, you should be careful that such snobby sounding comments could make others confuse you for a BMW owner
I had the opportunity to see the Altima at the NY auto show, Nissan has done an exceptional job with it. The first question from a spectator was where does the Maxima stand with the new Altima selling right next to it.
The 2002 Altima has yet to be tested, and so cannot be compared to ANY car at this time. However, it appears to be an entirely different car than the current version-- bigger even than the current Maxima, and more powerful. So it looks like the new Altima will be a sold competitor for the Camry -- may even knock it off its perch, in fact.
However, the new Altima does not appear to be aimed at the sports sedan market, and therefore will not compete with the IS300, 323 or CL-S -- all three of which have roughly equivalent performance but quite different personalities.
If it does really well, it may compete with the ES300, which is a near-luxury sedan.
But I also prefer manual transmission. Right now, that limits choices to cars made by VW/Audi, BMW, and Nissan - and IS300 when manual becomes available. (2-seaters and Camaro/Mustang, etc. are not options).
If have to choose between RWD automatic and FWD manual, which do you think is closer to a "true sports sedan"? Overall, I would opt for the latter for the most driving enjoyment.
RWD+manual now only available from BMW, maybe IS300 soon, likely Nissan (Infiniti) in 2003. Hopefully there will be more choice by 2003.
Since, my morning and afternoon commutes are traffic congested, and I wondering if I would regret going with the 5-speed as opposed to the automatic. Just curious what the opinion from the gallery is on this topic. I know a "true" sports sedan should have a manual transmission, and I love driving a 5-speed. I am just not sure for how long I will love it in stop and go traffic.
-PNC
As for the Automatic question, I love mine and don't miss a manual at all. I know some might say it's not a true sports car without a manual, but for me, it's more practical in todays traffic congested roads.
Another thing for me is looks. From pics I've seen of the '02 IS, (if the pics were correct), the shifter looks really tall (like the ones in the old Camry SE), and is still topped with the chrome ball and a nasty looking "bag" at the bottom. I think the "bags" match better with leather knobs that are a little closer to the console.
Also, even though the '02 will have 18" rims, I don't think they look as smooth as the ones on the '01.
P.S. I do like the all-leather seats!!
I have been following this discussion for a while, as well as the forums at is300.net... I guess I am one of those lurkers...:) I am looking to lease an IS300 very soon, and had a few questions I was hoping someone could answer.
I am familiar with the Destination Charge, which is a fee charged by the maufacturer to the dealer (Edmunds lists it at $545).
--Is the Acquisition Fee an entirely different charge, or is it just referred to by different names (Setup Fee, etc.)? I always thought they were all the same thing, but for the $399 Hi-Performance lease (including heated seats, leather pkg, sunroof, trunk mat, wheel locks) that Lexus has going for the IS300, they list the following terms:
Down Payment.....$1,075
Security Dep........450
Acquisition Fee.....450
1st Month Payment...399
Total Due at signing before taxes and tags: $2,374
I was thrown off because the Acq. Fee is much less than the Dest. Charge, and doubt that dealers would eat the difference on a standard charge. Is the acquisition Fee something that is related to the lease only? I am asking because the dealer that I went to said that the invoice price according to Edmunds, $29,664 (including pkg options, but without the destination charge), is off by more than $1,000, and I have a hard time believing him, but am open to the possibility that I am wrong. The $399/month program is based on a capitalized cost of $31,866, which still results in a hefty $2,200 profit margin for the dealer, not even including the holdback (~$700, which I leave alone, just for reference purposes here).
--Is that invoice price wildly inaccurate? Can anyone confirms Edmunds invoice prices with a window sticker pricesheet, along with any other legit charges?
Since Edmunds lists the True Market Value price as about $250 ($300 w/lease package) BELOW invoice, I am thinking that a fairly decent price can be negotiated.
As far as the current lease program is concerned, the salesman told me that in order to get the interest rate attached to the lease program (money factor of 0.00228, or 5.47%), the capitalized cost cannot be negotiated. Now as far as I know, the subsidized money factor is set by Lexus Financial Services and can restrict the terms of the leasing details. However, my understanding is that you can always negotiate the capitalized cost (purchase price), and then still use the subsidized rate offered by the program (He already went a couple bucks lower/month than the $399/month, but said that that was the lowest the terms of the lease program would let him go).
--Can Lexus Financial Services set a minimum capitalized cost price to qualify for the subsidized rate?
I apologize for the long post, but any knowledgeable comments would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
Terms of the lease:
Down Payment: also know as capitalized cost reduction. If what you said is correct pertaining to the $2200 profit, let the dealer eat the $1075 basically meaning they make $1175, IMO still too much.
Security Deposit: Is refundable from LCF you get it back at the end of the lease. Unless you destroy the vehicle
Acquisition fee: also know as bank fee Lexus charges this just to get the lease. I've heard people say that they have had this fee waived, I have never had it waived before.(I assume that a dealer could tell you its waived and just discount the car that amount)
1st month's payment is selfexplanitory and the last number is just the total less taxes,license,etc.
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