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Comments
the C320 went up against the IS300 in road and tracks april 2001 issue. like the 330i the price of the c320 led to its defeat.
the benz brakes are better and it has a little better 0-60 time. the lexus beat it in the slalom and skidpad. the engine and its steering were also rated better than the benz.
the lexus also costs 10,000 dollars less than the benz which is pathetic for mercedes benz if you ask me. basically the road test had four drivers agree that the lexus provided the most driving excitement. so for 44 thousand dollars you can say you have a pretty loaded c class sporty benz but there is something out there that is the real deal and it is called the IS300.
and of course looks are subjective but geez this c class looks like a sawed off version of the bigger mercedes sedans. i mean it is morphing itself into a smaller version of the bigger cars right?? the lexus is not a morphed version of anything like the bmw is of the 5 series and of course the benz. the lexus is truly unique with stylish 21st century looks.
i hope you get one you will be impressed with what this car can do.
vvti
Please don't insult the design of Benz and BMW! IS300 has an identity problem. A Japanese car with the Euro antenna! LOL
as far as the IS300 being a souped up corolla with 17" wheels, that's just idiotic. the 3 series bmw's and c-class mb's are nice cars, but i can't figure why someone would pay an extra $4K-$7K for a comparable car. would i pay extra for an M3 or CLK320? of course. i may even pay a bit more for the 330i or c320, but not for a 325i or a c240. why pay more for an inferior car?
i have seen a million modified civics trying to mimic the stylish look of the IS300 and they come closer trust me. the IS300 may be moderately based off the corolla but it isn't as close as the jetta/A4 or passat/A6 platforming.
the antenna is a euro feature just like those mercedes door handles. the japanese automakers take a lot of criticism for their imitating and copying no doubt. but who has the last laugh really??
the bottomline is they are kicking the daylights out of the german automakers here in america. at lexus the reliability of the cars and their customer service has been rated number one over a good part of the last decade i think. they have been outselling MB, BMW, JAGUAR, LAND ROVER, VOLVO for who knows how long here in the united states. i just laugh at all the people who knock toyotas and japanese cars in general.
the IS300 is a good car that isn't selling all that well here for some reason. the dominance of BMW in the sports sedan market is one reason for sure. the task of going up against such tradition and heritage is an uphill battle for sure. the lack of a manual could be a major reason too.
well the manual will be here very soon and look out 325i. that thing is going to be yesterday's news. lexus has a good strategy going if you ask me. there may be a lot of people still willing to buy the 330i for upper 30K to 42K after taxes for sure. they have a little more money to burn and will never visit a lexus dealership. the low to mid 30K market could one day be dominated by lexus. at my local lexus dealership there is a silver 323i sitting in the parking lot traded in obviously. this 323i can't be any older than a year or two old. lexus will chew up chunks of the market piece by piece. step by step, the tide will turn. then you will remember that you heard it here first.
the IS300 is still an infant. i know all about its imperfections but it is still a great car. this is only round one in a long arduous battle with BMW and mercedes. look out hans here come those toyota guys again!!
vvti
I think you have it the other way around. The Honda boys have modified their Civics/Accords/Integras for years! I know that as a fact. It is the IS300 that tries to mimic the looks of the "aftermarket" style. That's pretty pitiful if you ask me. A Corrolla look with Euro antenna and aftermarket rear lights. LOL!
Seriously, IS300 will do well in the future. Lexus need to get rid of that aftermarket look on the IS300. Rarely, do I see women driving IS300. I think they are "turned off" with the style.
Remember Looks are subjective and can hardly be argued or debated(Unless you own an Aztec that is)
Isn't the Impala just a suped up Cavalier or Malibu. LOL
It has been posted before by other forum members, but definitely go visit the site. It is probably the best source for info regarding the IS300.
That's funny! My answer is ....maybe. But for $10 K less than the IS300, from 0-60, it's almost a dead even race. hehe.
For anyone who never driven an Impala LS, I highly recommend you test drive it. It's the best American car I ever own (I've driven only imports in the past). You'll be extremely impress with the acceleration and the handling. (Cornering is inferior due to its size). There's even room to have sex in it. LOL
But then again, you're paying $35K for a souped up Corrolla with fancy wheels, euro antenna, and aftermarket rear lights. That's $20K more if you had bought a Corrolla and fix it up yourself. LOL
Ignore him, and sooner or later his Mom will make him get off the computer.
Oh, and msv1, yeah, those Aztek's are pretty hideous aren't they? hehe
It is in So. CALIFORNIA. The dealership is LEXUS OF CERRITOS. They have 4 IS300s: Yellow, White, Auburn Sky and Green. You should be able to get the number from the web. They are one of the well known dealerships in So gal. If you need more info on the car. check out CARSDIRECT.COM. If you find a loaded Blue IS, let me know.
Now to hvan3 the troll, Talk about rebadge jobs by GM let me see hmmm, Trailblazer/Bravada/Envoy, Escalade/Tahoe, Malibu./Cutlass, There best car(vette exempt) the Prism is a Corolla, Tracker/Suzuki Vitara, Metro/trash can well you get the point.
When your Impala breaks down in about 3 months all the Lexus owners or should I say suped up Toyota owners will be glad to give you a lift. Oh, and don't worry about us, Lexus vehicles are some of the most reliable in the world. Lexus road side assistance will aid us if any unforeseen incident should occur. How much is that On Star option and monthly service?
For me in the end, I decided at 25, I have plenty of years ahead to be practical, but now it was time to have a little fun behind the wheel. But hey, it's still a four door, so I didn't go completely the opposite direction, like with an S2000 for instance :-)
No regrets so far - I look forward to getting behind the wheel everyday. Milk runs are more common since I've had it, and I'm back to feeling like a 16 year old with his first car. To coin the phrase that seems to more fit the IS: It's "driving excitment"...
Buy what suits you.
Oh, and regarding the IS tail-lights being a copy of modified hondas. You'll see most companies advertising those lights for the hondas as "altezza lights". Hmmm...
BTW...I think the perfect sports sedan would combine the standard options, ride, and HP of the TL-S, with the handling, stereo and looks of the IS300. That's just my opinion....PNC
I was considering getting an IS but, the exterior just isn't aggressive enough for me. Even with the great deals on the IS I am not moved to dump my '00 Tundra Limited 4x4. Actually, I really want a BMW 330i coupe, but they are quite expensive. I was hoping Lexus would help me out with the IS, but for the most part I'm disappointed.
The IS 300 is a valiant effort for Lexus, but they'll have to come up with something more aggressive looking and more hp to top the BMW 3 series. I swear the 330 coupes with the sport pkg. is a work of art! Looks like I'll be saving my pennies a little longer for the Bimmer...Lexus let me down!
The interior is too cheap and Toyota-looking. It needs a more upscale interior and more power.
The ES, SC, LS and GS are successful.
The LX and IS seem to be duds. Now that the Sequoia is here, I heard Toyota is dropping the Landcruiser to cut the competition with the LX470.
hvan- you are the one who has it backwards. i have seen so many clowns put the clear rear lights on their civics along with the euro antenna. there is only one car they are trying to mimic believe me. sure you are right people have been modifying their cars long before the IS 300 arrived but unless you can prove me wrong it was the altezza and the IS that first came stock with the clear tail lights. now all the punk rice racers want that same look as the IS. i saw a civic today that had a whole makeover. it had the clear lights on the back along with the two round tail lights cut into its trunk so it could look exactly like an IS300. that is all i meant when i said the civic comes closer to the IS than a corolla.
vvti
shelz- the TL type S is a nice car with good power. i am sure the ride is better than the IS too but that is where it all ends. let me give you some quotes from the magazines.
"the brake system should stack up as world-class, the thrust of the straight-six is gratifying indeed, and as you expect of a lexus, the price of admission includes first-class seats and a terrific audio system (in dash six cd changer standard)." -car and driver, july 2000
As we witnessed in our mountain driving loop, the lexus IS300's brakes are about as good as they come, stopping the car from 60 mph in only 113ft -4 ft shorter than a ferrari 360 Modena." motor trend, September 2000
"sexy, sensuous, tactile; and that's just the chrome gearknob. Just wait 'til you get your clammies on the rest of the new Lexus IS300 -motor trend september 2000
"it is the best COMBINATION of a sport/luxury car without breaking the bank." -auto week sept 2000
"in our drives, we found that the IS is considerably more muscular feeling than the other two [bmw 328i and Audi A4]." -urban racer.com november 2000
"exceptional chassis dynamics rival BMW for sheer capability." -motor trend september 2000
"the combination of ride quality and handling, which are usually at odds with one another, was exceptional." -turbo & high tech performance august 2000
"makes a dramatic styling statement inside and out." -motor trend september 2000
i have seen the interior and exterior of the TL 3.2 and let me tell you, it is no lexus. i am impressed with the engine though. it runs a 6.7 0-60 and a 15.1 quarter mile. the lexus IS is slower by a mile at 7.4 and 15.5. but it handles better with tighter steering no doubt.
"the suspension was primed for all we threw at it - quick 180 degree turns, an early apex, a late apex, even turns under heavy braking were conquered with ease." -Turbo & high-tech performance august 2000
vvti
The pricing for the IS is all over the place. Internet offer for other Dallas Lexus dealer-$32,754+TT (spoiler,leather,moon roof,tint). Several classifieds $31K+ with 11+miles. I asked one guy selling his for $33K if it was a misprint since the new sticker was almost $34K. He said it took him originally 6 months to get his IS. I told him good luck! I'm due to go talk about pricing tomorrow (2 visits and not a word on pricing) with the dealer who lent me the car- stay tuned! I'm curious though on the TMV being below invoice- dealer said sales are 103% of target by Lexus. Automotive News states IS's sold- 1st 5 mo. of 2001-10,554 cars. What are the prices that have been paid by people buying IS's this year?
i'm not sure about other parts of the country, but here in los angeles, a stick is a major pain. my last car was a 5spd and when i was stuck in traffic, it never left 2nd gear. now, whenever i get the urge to shift, i just move it to M mode and live out my Michael Schumacher fantasy.
mr bill2,
i paid $31,500 ($34,8XX after tax & reg) for a fully loaded (LSD, seat warmers, luxury package, etc) in Santa Monica, CA. it was about $3,500 below MSRP and if you include the 2% holdback, the dealer sold it at 4% profit. i think it was a pretty good deal.
Wonder what 2003 will hold?
The IS300 is a "boy racer" vehicle that mimmicks the Civics/Accords/Integras. It's nothing more then a souped Corrolla with fancy wheels, clear rear lights, and euro antenna. Too bad you guys have to pay premium gas to drive it. LOL!
BTW
If you live in LA or Orange County, there is a car show/ drag race in Pomona. If you're interested in checking out these souped up Civics/Accords/Integras, let me know.
Rather than listing out the differences in the IS and the Corrolla (antenna, rims, lights) try listing what they share. Chassis? Body? Engine? Transmission? Brakes? Interior?
i think it is hilarious on how you try to make it seem like these clear taillights have been around for years and years. i have been around rice boy modified japanese cars for years and these lights haven't been around that long. let me tell you nobody was putting them on their four door civics until recently. now they are putting a euro antenna and drilling holes into their trunk for two extra taillights like the GS and IS have on them. give me a break. they all want the IS look it doesn't matter if rice cars have been modified for years.
vvti
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Silverlex:
There's nothing great about IS that i want. Can I afford it? Absolutely! Do I want a souped up Corrolla and pay $35K for it? Hell no!! I prefer to buy Honda and customize it myself. If I do want to spend $35 K for a vehicle, I rather buy Honda S2000. The S2000 with in-line 4 can whip IS300 any day! The S2000 doesn't need all the hype that the IS is getting from the presses.
hvan3 you continue to miss the point. Your faulting Lexus for entering a market in the U.S. which it had previously been in Japan. The IS300 has plenty to offer to the demographic it caters to, oh and no one compares any Honda to a BMW or Merc, such as reputable publications such as C&D, Automobile, R&T (That are notorious for loving German autos). GET A CLUE, GRIP,ROLE MODEL, WHATEVER!!!
enough with the suped-up corolla reference. using your flawed logic, the NSX is nothing more than a suped Prelude and RX7 was just a modified Miata. see how silly that sounds.
to compare the IS300 to the S2000 is moronic. i could say my '99 CBRF4, at only $8,000, can go 0-100-0mph faster than most cars can go 0-60mph, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison. there's more to cars than 0-60mph or the 1/4 mile. performance is important, but so are safety, build quality, appearance, value, etc.
Let me know, when the manuals hit the road this fall, how many of your honda friends start drooling over the IS. It's a boy racers dream, and a car that easily lends it self to being modified (the engine 2JZ-GE is a variant of the Supra). Turbo and supercharger packages are already on the streets.
Not only will they being showing you more of their clear tail lights , but they'll look good doing it.
Why would it be moronic to compare IS300 to S2000? As you stated, performance is important, but so are safety, build quality, appearance, and value. I don't know any other car that can give you more bang for the buck then the S2000. Have you ever driven one? It definitely drives lot nicer than the IS300 (I mean Corrolla, hehe). .
you see you may not like the IS like a lot of people out there. BUT, the younger generation import lovers who modify their cars love the IS they just can't afford it. thus, you see dozens of honda drivers imitating the IS300 or altezza as closely as they possibly can. now if these same folks thought the corolla was really just a cheap IS they would be modifying it to look exactly like an IS. i can assure you this isn't the case.
how in the world did the S2000 get on this board?? this is more than absurd if you ask me. the IS isn't the greatest car on the planet but it was built to be all things to all enthusiasts. it was meant to combine performance and luxury all in four doors and a trunk. the S2000 as great as it is cannot do this. this is a completely different market we are talking about and you know it; you are just trying to incite anger in all of us. i know your game.
vvti
The IS is an entry level luxury sports car. Guess who buys these entry level luxury sports car? Not high school kids or college kids. These targeted buyers are educated and slightly affluent. These mature "audience" do not want the boy racer look with "aftermarket style". This explains why Lexus so far has failed to sell many IS. The Bimmer is a conservative well design sports car. It attracts ALL audiences!
As I said before, once Lexus cleans up the style of the IS, they should attract many mature audience...including women drivers. In the meantime, IS is still a souped Corrolla. hehe.
The car's behavior on the road, its relative value, mechanical or fit-finish problems [or lack thereof], dealer experiences, sales or service anecdotes...these I can appreciate. More blathering about taillights leaves me cold...am I the only one?
you have to wonder about a person who has nothing better to do than post message after message on a board for a car he doesn't even own. that would be like me going on the eclipse board and ranting about what a piece of crap it is. wait, at least i used to own one so i guess i can.
i think if someone is going to keep repeating something, they should provide some hard facts. about 1/2 of IS300's i've seen have had women behind the wheels. every woman i've come across think the IS300 is a nice looking car. more men may be buying IS300's than women, but it's probably because the IS300 is marketed toward men. look at it this way. just because more men tend to buy 911's, it doesn't mean women don't like them. it just might mean that even though they like the 911, it's not a car women would buy themselves. unless you've got a study done by a reputable institution where women polled specifically said they don't like the IS300, stop saying it. there's a difference between an opinion and fact.
again, if one insists on comparing the IS300 to S2000, it just shows ones lack of knowledge. the IS300 is an entry-level luxury/sport sedan and the S2000 is a roadster/sportscar. when magazines conduct comparison tests, they compare cars in the same class. suv's with suv's, station wagons with station wagons, roadsters with roadsters, etc. the S2000 may have better performance, but how many people can it seat? how much can it hold in the trunk? how much leg/shoulder/head room does it have? is it manageable in daily traffic? how functional is it? now do you see why they don't compare cars in different classes. btw, if performance is the only thing you care about, buy a motorcycle. mine can go 0-60mph in less than 3 seconds. it's so fast, it must be better than a ferrari.
also, i see someone still uses the corolla reference, so he must actually believe the nsx is a suped prelude and the rx7 is a modified miata.
enough of this. you know what they say about trying to teach a pig how to dance
jrct:
"The car's behavior on the road" - Well, the best thing to do is test drive it and see for yourself. In my opinion this is a very subjective issue. The car that puts up the best stats may not be the car that gives you the most pleasure. (Unless you get pleasure from stats.) I test drove all three cars listed above and I would have been happy with any of them, but I found the IS to be the most fun. Why? First, it fits me like a glove. The seat is supportive and holds me in place; the steering wheel grip fits my hands perfectly. Second, it is alarmingly agile. I'm not going to say its more agile then a BOW. But to me, it *felt* more agile; it seemed to *want* to twist and shout. On the flip side, it felt a little more nervous than the BOW, like it had had a little too much coffee. But I like that sense of energy. That's my take.
It's very quiet, but then again, all of these cars are quiet. I've heard people claim this one or that one is loud. A jeep wrangle is loud. A dodge viper is loud. Neither the Audi, BMW nor IS is loud.
"its relative value". This is a tough topic. It depends on what matters to you. I think the cheapest car you can get in this group is a stripped down 325i or A4 1.8T. If either of these has everything you want, there's your best value. You've got to list out what you want your car to have and compare costs given these options. One thing is clear though. BMW's are currently more popular than IS's, so you can get a better deal on an IS relative to it's MSRP. Personally, I was willing to spend between $30K and $35K and it didn't really matter to me where in that range I ended up, as long as I ended up with a car that I could be happy with. I think all of these cars represent pretty good value.
"mechanical or fit-finish problems". Not so far with the IS (but I'm still under 1K miles, long term remains to be seen). I think the Lexus is a step above the BMW and Audi in this department, although I'm sure there are people out there who will argue with me. Again, check them out for yourself.
"dealer experiences, sales or service anecdotes". I had both good and not so good experiences with sales staff at both Lexus and BMW. (Only good experiences at Audi). But I am very happy with the sales and service I've received so far from the Lexus dealer I purchased my car from. Here's an example. My wife and I couldn't find a good time when we could both go to the dealer to pick up the car (we have two kids). So I called the dealer and asked if I could get a ride to the dealership (35 minutes away). No problem. I was picked up in an RX300 and driven to the dealer. Saved us a few hassles trying to rearrange our schedules. That's a pretty good start!
I don't get the style debate. Look at the car. Ask yourself if you like it. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. Debate over. I think the BMW is more conservative (which I like, since I'm pretty conservative) and the Lexus is a bit too 'flashy' (dash board, clear tail lights). I wrestled with this, and almost went with the BMW because of it. But in the end it was not enough to outweigh the other advantages I find in the IS (pure fun to drive, great stereo, fits me like a glove, etc).