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Comments
in the long run, does it matter?
i don't understand why camry doesn't have ABS as standard equipment in its base LE, but i also don't understand why honda doesn't have a power driver seat standard in the base LX 4 cylinder...
i think it's easier to get the camry the way you want it-- try getting a moonroof in an accord LX. then, some prefer the simpler LX/EX trim lines.
2) Someone stated that the initial reviews of the Accord 2.4L stated it felt more like the 192hp 3.0L engine of the Camry. Not quite, in my experience, especially where refinement is concerned, but nonetheless, that engine is no longer available in any Camry. The LE V6 and XLE V6 now use a 210hp and 220 ft lb. version of that. (You'll note that thats more torque than available in the Accord V6). The SE V6 offers the 3.3L 225hp and 240lb ft. engine that puts the Camry's acceleration on par with the Accord V6, and better in passing manuvers.
3) About snow traction- putting snow tires on any car will make a HUGE difference. That said, I do not have any experience with Accords in snow. If I was really concerned, though, and had the money, I'd put it on a Camry with snow tires and VSC, as opposed to an Accord with snow tires. For those of you who havent experienced the advantage of stability control- its pretty surprising...
~alpha
I never thought that traction control could make such a difference, but it's like night and day between the less powerful (200 hp) 2000 Accord V6 without traction control that I owned previously and the more powerful (240 hp) 2003 Accord V6 with traction control that I currently own. In snow, wheelspin was very hard to control with the 2000... on the other hand, it's virtually a non-issue with the 2003.
I'm sure the Camry with VSC is great in snow as well, but don't sell the Accord short... it's still a great choice.
It wouldn't stop me from buying a Camry if I wanted one though.
That said, please let me correct myself on one point: The Altima's resale value is ACTUALLY slightly better than a similarly equipped Camry's after 2 years, but the two are even after 4 years of ownership.
Motown, if you're looking at 06 models- a lot will be going on by then, so its hard to even say which car is a better choice for you right now. My recommendation, though, would be to definitely NOT trade in your current Camry, if you are financially able to keep it. Cars aren't like houses, there is no possibility for appreciation in value, and I'd recommend keeping a vehicle for at least 6 calendar years or 99,999 miles. Then, if you turn 100K, you might as well go to 150K.
For my next car, what I actually might do, as I heard this is an excellent investment strategy, is to find a moderate mileage, 2 year old certified used model, then sell it in another 2-3 years. This really mitigates depreciation, and I've even heard of people who sell for only slightly less than the amount they paid, on cars with good resale, like the Accord, for example.
~alpha
The 98 Camry outsold the brand new 98 Accord 5-6 years ago. In an interseting point an Accord Coupe was offered for the 98 model year while the Solara(coupe versaion of Camry) wasn't offered for the 98 model year. So alone the 1998 Camry 4dr in 1998 outsold both the 98 Accord 4dr and 2dr models. The Solara was offered for the 99 model year however.
Another point would be regarding consumer incentives. For the first two model years, Camrys had relatively low incentives, and even now, you CANNOT get 0% financing for any longer than 36 months in any part of the country, and in most parts of the country, the Camry offers do not allow for combining a cash back incentive with a financing incentive. The lower resale value on Camrys (which averages about 2-3% of MSRP lower than the Accord) is primarily due to the higher % of sales to fleet buyers, as I stated in this forum several posts ago. [That said, the Accord is seeing strong financing incentives in many areas now.]
Toyota and Honda customer service traditionally ranks at the bottom of the scale, certainly, YOUR experience was far better with Honda. However, I have been to good and bad dealerships vending both.
"Now I understand that the SE V6 w/ the new 3.3L engine is causing the vehicle to pull out of alignment." Indeed, in some cars, this is the case. But youre a frequent member on the Accord threads, and you know that its not without its quality gaffes.
"Next, the interior lay out of the Accord is much welcoming/warming. The Camry is not." This is subjective. When I drive the current Accord, I feel like the A-pillar is really close to my head, and I'm not impressed with visibility. Thats NOT inviting to me.
I will certainly agree that in many forms, the Accord represents a better value than the Camry. I just feel some of your justifications are very subjective, and functions of YOUR experience, not necessarily representative of the overall case.
~alpha
~alpha
You are a very experienced person when it comes to Toyota's and Honda's. You opened the eyes to myself and many others whom seek information from this site. It's not too often that we members complement each other. I have read so many people slamming each other over the smallest things. I like to say thanks for your help in helping us to make a final decision on the automobile that best meets and exceeds our needs. I apologize if my reply came on to harsh or defensive, I was not intending it to be. Thanks again for providing us all with your knowledge and experiences.
One small correction Nw1997. While the engine and transmission are the same the vehicles are not. One is a mid size car, the other is a mid size SUV. A typical mid size SUV weighs almost a 1000 pounds more than a typical mid size car. The Camry weighs about 3200 Lbs and I am guessing the RX300/330 weighs somewhere north of 4000 lbs. Since both automobile produces roughly the same Hp and torque, the law of physics dictate the heavier automobile will require more energy (Aka more gasoline) to cover the same distance. So your argument has a minor flaw. Being the proud owner of 2003 Camry LE V6, I can testify that on highways I have gotten very close to 30 mpg. The Honda Accord no doubt is an outstanding car also. Just about all the auto mags have rated the Accord the best mid size car out there.
Great post. I would like to add, when a manufacturer claims that a vehicle should get at least 18 MPG in the city and 22 on the hwy, it would be nice to at least get the city MPG when your on the hwy. We were getting approx. 14 mpg on the hwy, which sucks. We had no one else in the vehicle and we did not have anything in the trunk. It was only until 12,000 miles that we went up to approx. 16-18 mpg on the HWY. the gross weight of the RX300 I believe is 3860 LBS. A difference of approx. 660 LBS compared to your Camry, if your getting about 30 MPG on the hwy, then the RX300 should of at least done better than the 16-18 MPG we noted. Keep also in mind your LE V6 Camry should have a five speed auto transmission, while the RX300 had a four speed auto transmission. Never the less, the new RX 330 has a five speed auto tranny, but still is suffering on MPG. Thats probably why the hybrid version of the RX330 is soon to be out. Lexus/Toyota knows that they're SUV's are gas drinkers/gulpers, not sippers. Well nearly all SUV in the V6's are in that category. Just to add, two more cents to the conversation, when we use 89 Octane in our V6 Accord w/5 speed auto tranny and straight hwy miles and only having approx. 1,000 miles on the vehicle we are already getting approx. 31 MPG. This is more than what HONDA rated the vehicle for. Please, don't get me wrong, Toyota's are great vehicles, but technology wise and fuel savings, I don't believe anyone will doubt that Honda exceeds in these areas.
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles/guide/guide.cfm?PrintView=N&T- ext=N
The Accord with a manual is much easier to find than either the Camry or Altima, but it is still difficult. Especially if the Accord you want is an EX-L.
LX with manuals are easier to find I have found.
I have only seen ONE Accord EX-L with manual, and it had a Navi system.
The coupe is a somewhat different story from the sedan though.
As far as the Camry, most Camrys are going to be automatic because that is what sells.
The LE with automatic is the best seller, similar to the Accord LX with automatic.
Most Camrys I have seen with the manual have either been basic LEs with NO options or the SE with the Conv. Plus Pkg.
Camry SEs can be found at Carmax.com with 5spd, or at least they once could.
The 5spd manual is available for the Camry LEI4 and SEI4. XLEI4s have the 4spd automatic
The V6 models have the 5spd. automatic
Negative: the ride over bad roads is harsh. It is fine on moderately-bad roads, but on worse-than-average roads it is worse than I expect. I frequently drive a 1999 Civic, so I am used to Honda suspensions. I thought the Accord couldn't be worse than the Civic (I thought longer-wheelbase and heavier ==> better ride), but somehow it feels worse. Maybe due to the lower profile tires? Our Accord has steel wheels; I wonder if lighter alloy wheels can improve the ride.
We miss the automatic door-locking mechanism (a safety feature). On the 1999 Civic EX Sedan, all doors lock automatically when we start the engine, and unlock automatically when we turn off the engine. (Does the Accord EX has this feature?) On our previous American car (1994 Intrepid ES), the doors lock automatically once the car reaches certain speed.
Positive: No rattles or any other problems so far. (I think it is wise to wait till 2nd year of a new model before buying, even for a Honda/Toyota.) We are not very "discerning" so we may not notice minor rattles or build trim problems.
Also, for someone who is analytical/objective (when comparing Accord/Camry) and not concerned about styles etc., I find that I really like the luxury look of the LED instrument panel.
---
Regarding the ride, I was starting to think that maybe I should have chosen the Camry instead. (We have a 3-year old, and a baby coming in October.) That is, until I saw the NHTSA crash test results for the 2004 Camry. Then I am glad I picked the Accord. Honda has put a higher focus/emphasis on safety compared to Toyota, with its own crash test facility etc., and it shows in the consistently good crash results on all its new models. (Subaru is also good. And VW, but I won't consider VW because of reliability.)
It is all very strange, and makes me wonder about the repeatability of the NHTSA tests.
On the other hand, the IIHS offset tests seem very repeatable, and in this measure the Accord and Camry finish 1st and 2nd in their class.
~alpha
~alpha
Is there anywhere I can get some good opinions on these 2 cars?
strictly opinion, and in no particular order...
little things added up...
1) i like center arm rest on accord-- it slides forward and back..nice.
2) i like EX version with moonroof and XM radio... 4 cylinder-- 30 mpg... plenty of oomph..and satellite radio is real nice to have...
3) i like the keyless entry fob built into the key on the honda...
4) i didn't like toyota $450 TDA or whatever advertising fee tacked on...
5) i like the instrumentation in accord-- the lighting..
6) after a few days with camry, seemed somewhat boring interior....
those are just some things that come to mind...
i go along with consensus that camry is "quieter" ride-- accord offers more road feel...
both cars are nice-- all depends on your own views... test drive both... there's some things in the toyota i liked better (location of moonroof switch, for one)....
"5) i like the instrumentation in accord-- the lighting.."
Optitron gauge illumination will be standard, and there is a rumor that the color choice for lighting may be selectable (between white, blue, and redish). Thats a feature on Asian market Camrys that might not make it here, but at the very least, instrumentation will be the jazzy Optitron type, and similar in function to Accords.
6) after a few days with camry, seemed somewhat boring interior....
Somewhat agreed, though the Camrys dash is highly functional, its stylistically more plain than the Accords. New lower dash for 2005, as well as a new stereo head unit.
ricowiz- Can you wait until the Fall for your purchase? The Camry will be significantly upgraded by then, with the addition of a 5 speed automatic to the 4 cylinder, larger wheel and tire options, a few more hp for the 4 cylinder, the 3.3L V6 in all trim lines, revised front and rear styling, etc. Side curtain airbags will be more widely available as well.
Adittionally, the Accord is expected to have a revised front and rear for 2005, and side curtain airbags will be standard on all models.
If you were buying RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, though... I'd say go Accord EX 4 (5A) cylinder, with side curtain option. $23,290 on the sticker, and you can probably pick one up for $20,250 with some haggling.
~alpha
In other words, if this is a "sensitive" area for you, you probably have to see for yourself.
In any case, it looks like they'll need to add the radar-beep function they have in minivans to help you backup! Or include a rear-facing camera...
I may be able to pull it off and wait till the fall, my current car(96 Golf K2) is at 171,000 miles and seems to be coughing and on its last breath. Is there any pics or info out on these 2005 cars??
Safe driving aid
Side mirrors adjustment
Excerpts from National Safety Council on Safe Driving.
Some of the most serious preventable accidents occur because of blind spots while driving! Now there is a remarkable simple solution discovered by an engineer named George Platter. He presented his method at the prestigious Society of Automotive Engineers.
The National Safety Council tested his theory and discovered, to their amazement, that it works! The method has been fully endorsed by the National Safety Council as described in their September/October issue of Traffic Safety. Here’s how it works.
First, forget how we learned to adjust our outside mirrors by plopping behind the steering wheel and turning the mirrors so that we just saw the side of our car looking back at us in the mirrors.
Instead, adjust the driver’s side mirror by resting your head against the driver’s side window and then turning the mirror so that you just see the side of your car.
Once this is set, move to the center of the vehicle and turn the passenger side mirror so that you can just see the side of your car from the center of the vehicle.
That’s it. You won’t see your own car in either mirror, yet what you will see is far better. Cars behind you show up as usual in the inside rear-view mirror above the dash, but the instant the car leaves your field of vision from the rear-view mirror, the outside mirror picks it up. No blind spots; no delays; no wondering where that car about to pass you has disappeared to; and no waiting a few seconds for the car that you just saw in your rear-view mirror to show up in your outside mirrors.
All three mirrors work in harmony with one another, and the blind spot has been eliminated!
.........Richard
I am sold on this idea!!!!!
~alpha
new features/changes for the 05 Camry
- 5 speed auto for 4 cylinder models
- VSC available for 4 cylinder models
- larger, 17 inch alloys wheels and tires on at least SE V6 which resemble a machine-finish version of the Solaras 17 inch wheel (which has a shiny finish)
- covered center console bin (as compared to open on current)
- Optitron instrumentation on all models
- new light clusters within current design style of headlights
- new grille and front bumper
- new light clusters within current design style of taillights
- 3.3L V6 available on Camry LE and Camry XLE (as compared to just SE currently) We're not sure if the 3.3L for the LE,XLE will be available this year
- new steering wheel design with audio controls
- rear seat gets center headrest
- cassette player removed (optional?)
- HVAC/audio controls look different
- new exterior colors (2 or 3)
- Tire Pressure Warning System
- slightly different luggage lid
- XM Radio ??? (available now on the Camry Solara)
- no HID headlights (expected on the 07 Camry)
Anyway, the list made mention of changes to the backup lights. At the same time, a video regarding the new AWD system on the upcoming RL included an Accord in the same design family as the current NA Accord with mods to the current full width taillights. So some Accord folks are assuming that the Accord in the video shows the updated taillights. Of course, that remains to be seen.
Hopefully that wasn't too brash and arrogant... you know how we Accord fans can be...
Thanks.
Mark