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What you should look at is reliable dealers in range (a bad dealer can sour any vehicle for someone, reliable or not), ride preference (soft and comfortable for the Camry, or firm and sporty for the Accord), exterior and interior style (totaly subjective), features (Camry sports a split rear bench, where as the Accord only has a pass through to the trunk from the passanger cabin and can only put the whole seat down. The Accord does sport 8 drink holders for 4 people, and lots of little storage areas around the passenger cabin. These are only a couple of examples), vehicle space (The Accord seems to have more rear seat room, while the Camry has a larger trunk).
I chose the Accord because I liked its firm and sporty nature compared to the Camry. Then again, alot of people have complained that the Accord is too harsh on rough pavement or railroad tracks, and that is a legit concern. Again, it's pretty much your preference.
The Accord won that comparison, while the Camry was awarded 4th place.
Both cars were awarded an 8 out of 10 for handling, and a 9 for ride. And the Accord bested the Camry slightly on the skidpad, while the Camry was slightly ahead in the emergency lane change.
But the biggest differences were in the subjective evaluations. While the Accord was lauded for "marvelous balance", the Camry was criticized as "bland to drive". They spent 3 paragraphs praising the Accord's handling, saying things like:
".. the driver's perception is of a car translating directives with fluent responses."
"... the Accord feels light on its feet, ready to change direction any time."
They complained only about limited roll stiffness which prevented quicker speeds in the emergency lane change. Probably a consequence of Honda's attempt to achieve a smoother ride while minimizing any negative effects on handling.
In the Camry report, they didn't even touch on the handling at all... the only mention of the suspension was in regards to how it affected the ride. That's a good indication that the chassis dynamics left them underwhelmed because, as shown with the Accord and the Mazda 6, they're effusive with their praise when they enjoy a car's handling.
So the Accord isn't just about a firmer sporty ride. It's about the overall balance of its chassis and the accuracy of its steering. And it's much more about overall feel than it is about instrumented numbers, as shown by this test. Simply giving a Camry a firmer suspension doesn't give the Camry the Accord's balanced road manners.
IMO, if you're really into a firm (yet supple) ride and sporty road manners, the Accord should be your choice. Of course, if you prefer a more cushioned, insulated ride with less sporty (yet very competent) handling, the Camry is your car. In most other areas, they're very well matched.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- - - _id=1807&page_number=1
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/101056/article- .html?tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.comparisons.1g.*
I can't say that the Camry can or cannot give me that kind of confidence, only because I've never driven it in those types of scenarios.
This does remind me of the Mitsubishi Galant commercial that shows the Galant and the Camry driving side-by-side behind a truck. The truck's back gate was open with two people inside tossing things out of the back of the truck and you'd watch the cars maneuver to avoid them. Stuff like boxes, bowling balls, chairs, tables, and so on, and (possibly due to exaggeration of the driver's part) you can see the Camry having obvious issues getting back in line (back end wobbles a bit, etc.), while the Galant just glides back and forth. The commercial ends right when you two baby grand pianos (or something big like that) just get pushed out of the back of the truck, and the commercial directs you to a website to see what happens.
I just found it silly that they picked on what's known to be the "less agile" of the "Camcord" vehicles. I wonder if they tried that with the Accord and didn't get the same results.
Of course, they did use the Accord for the more dramatic looking braking test...
Alot also has to do with the smoothness with which the drivers thread the steering wheel. Yes, the Camry definitely will roll more than the Galant GTS, but you SEE the more violent actions of the drivers of the cars in that commercial. And not only did they pick the less athletic of the Camry/Accord duo for that test, but since they chose the GTS trim Galant, dont you think it would have been a better contest with the Camry SE?
This generation Accord seems to have longish stopping distances, according to most mags I have read, so obviously, the Mitsu folks designed the test wisely.
It doesnt matter much, IMO. In edmunds.com comparison test- where did the Galant finish? And in sales, obviously, Mitsu's assailing the Camcords in the commercials didnt pull much weight- Galant sales are only as good, or worse, than the outgoing generations.
Poor Mitsu.
For me, major points to the Honda folks for standard side curtains for 2005. I do, however, like almost all of the significant upgrades to the Camry for 2005. But Toyota missed an opportunity to best Honda by skimping out on the safety issue.
~alpha
It still doesn't excuse Honda from the warped rotors issues that some people are having.
~alpha
The front airbag was deployed but her head hit the top left corner of the windshield causing multiple larcerations on her left forehead and a hematoma the size of an egg inside her brain. She also suffered 3 broken ribs, a collapsed left lung and larcerated kidney. Her condition is stable after 4 days but she will be in intensive care for at least 2 weeks.
A year ago I came to the conclusion that I would not buy any future car without side and curtain airbags for both front and rear seats! These safety features are worth your lives, your limbs or hundreds of thousands of dollars in pain, suffering and lost wages!
When I was looking at the Camry in July 2004, it was impossible to find any 04 Camry with side and curtain airbags at any trim level in Southern California! Honda made a great move making side and curtain airbags standard on the 05 Accord. I am very disappointed in Toyota for not making them standard on the 05 Camry.
I also wanted a SE but there were very few in California and the dealers wanted premium prices.
Toyotas produced a lot of 04 Camrys and Corollas with standard transmissions which the dealers could not sell and had to discount heavily!
By the way, the Accord has double wishbone suspensions, front and rear, which are only available in the upscale GS and LS Lexus, MSRP from $42K to $65K. In emergency maneuvers, the Accord's tighter suspension would probably beat the Camry by a wide margin with clear implications of better accident avoidance before one has to rely on airbags as the last defense.
I am not even talking about possible quicker throttle response, faster acceleration, better tires in an Accord if I have to dodge a big truck gunning for me!
Toyota seems to misread its customers' preferences or has little regards for their needs. Toyota also seems to try to sell cheap cars for higher prices with expensive options than competitors.
I am now convinced that Toyota is always behind Honda at least 2 years in all major and critical features, for example, ABS, 5-speed auto transmission, side airbags etc...
Why am I sounding like I am trying to talk myself into a Honda over a Toyota??? Would like to have more comparisons re safety features and performance on these cars from members of this board.
The Accord still does not offer stability control, which the Camry does, on both 4 and V6, though its probably a very tough option to find on the 4. If you want to talk about accident avoidance, stability control is the way to go. Reference the recent study:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?ye- - ar=2004&filename=pr42-04.html
And yet, no stability control is available on any Accord, at any price.
Yes, the Accord does have a tighter suspension and its double wish-bone. But guess what? In terms of evasive manuevers, event the non-VSC equipped Camry XLE will outperform the Accord. This is info from Mitsu's website, in which the Galant GTS V6, Camry XLE V6, and Accord EX V6 were compared (really it should have been the Camry SE V6, but obviously Mitsu didnt want to get in over its head). The Accord may feel sportier, but the numbers indicate that the dyanmic capability goes to the Camry:
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/accident_results.html
And again, for braking, the Accord bringing up the rear:
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/braking_results.html
Quicker engine response? That is one are that Accord does better the Camry...
http://www.mitsucars.com/galant/acceleration_results.html
But even so, with 30 extra horses, the Accord managed just 4 tenths quicker to sixty. What about the Camry's 3.3L? Im thinking it would be at least neck and neck, if the Camry didnt actually have the advantage.
And since when does the Accord have better tires?
Want the "safest" of the Accord Camry duo, IMO? Get the SE V6 Camry with VSC/Side Curtains and 17-inch all season tires.
~alpha
Besides good brakes with ABS, your concerns with Vehicle Stability Control (Toyota's term) is valid.
I was driving my wife's 93 Camry (120K miles) one night at about 65 MPH on the freeway. When I changed 1 lane fairly quickly to avoid a merging car, the car's front wheels bobbed from right to left violently. The front tires, which were new Michelins, were sqealing; the front shock absorbers were alternately going through their full travel ranges. The car weaved left and right, sometimes skidding sideway, through 2 freeway lanes for about 30 seconds before it went straight again!
The car's front end was bobbing up and down so hard, it was completely out of control, I really thought it would roll over. Luckily there was no other cars on the freeway late at night. Otherwise I would have wiped out many of them! I was pretty scared eventhough, when younger, I used to race production cars at high speed, and piloted planes through some severe weather!
I brought the car into a Toyota dealer. They explained that the front-wheel drive design coupled with worn shock absorbers were most likely the cause of bobbing/skidding problem. But they would not know for sure until they replicate the incident....I immediately bought new Japanese gas shocks for the car! The folks in the snow belt may prefer front-wheel drive for extra traction and control on slippery and icy roads, but not me!
I decided to buy a Lexus GS300 for its rear-wheel drive, vehicle stability control, emnergency brake assist, its 6 airbags and its beefier frame. It does not have airbags for rear occupants though!
We were in the process of upgrading to more Lexus when my wife took the 93 Camry out for a local run and got in the accident! I feel very sad that if my wife had taken the Lexus, she probably got out of that accident with much less severe injuries!
Again, I agree with you 100% that vehicle stability or skid control system is vital to prevent or to reduce probablity of accidents in the first place. The airbags are last-ditch defense!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences! May God find you in good luck and good health!
--18fan
Just want to throw in some interesting points about the handling of the Camry, Accord and Altima.
I sell Hondas for a living and part of our training (my favourite part) is going out on a closed off road course and driving our cars (Civics, Accords etc.) side by side with our main competitors. On a recent "ride and drive" we got to compare the Accord, Camry, and the Altima all in 4 cyl. automatic trims on a closed off road course, and driving in regular traffic on regular streets. I will admit the Camry is a much softer ride, very comfortable, and comparable to many domestics such as Caddys or Buicks. The Accord on the other hand is more tuned for sportier driving and will have a bumpier ride. The Altima is the speed and style champion but lacks the refinement of either the Camry or the Accord.
However when you take the three on a road course and test their handling and braking at their very limits, then you see the differences. I found the Altima is the quickest of the three but has a very wide turning radius making it difficult to maneuver through tight turns at high speeds. The Accord handles very well through precise suspension and steering geometry making it a snap to keep control in emergency maneuvers. This is very typical of not only the Accord but also the Civic, both vehicles having less HP than the competition, meaning slower straight line acceleration but having superior handling. To my surprise I found the Camry to have better handling than the Altima due to more precise steering, but the Camry's brakes were the worst of the bunch. I drove the Camry and the Accord back to back and found that the brake pedal travel on the Camry was about one and a half times longer than the Accords. I almost drove the Camry into a set of cones because I wasn't expecting the brake pedal travel to be so long.
So it all depends what driving style you like as many people love the Camry's every day soft comfortable ride whereas many of my Accord customers prefer the Accord's styling and sportier driving characteristics. But it just might be the precise handling that may help you keep control on the road when avoiding a hazard, and ultimately preventing a collision.
Hope this helps a bit. And we weren't allowed to crash test the cars so can't give you any input on that.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Even after this happening, given a choice, I will still pick an Accord over anything else in the segment for its virtues which I feel I value more than maybe someone else would.
With all the faults I find with the Accord and Honda in general, if I had to choose a midsize sedan this second I would actually go with the Accord so I agree with you there. What shocks me though is you have said the transmission went out at 35k (I believe this is what you said in another thread somewhere). Had the car hit 36k would Honda have covered the transmission repair? As good as the car may be for you how can you have so much confidence in a car that you were so dangerously close to paying an expensive repair on? On a car that wasn't even 3 years old? Honda really needs a 5 year powertrain warranty.
Thanks for your concerns for my wife.
I has a Nissan 280Z which I used to do some racing with. By 80K miles, some of the chrome trims were falling off since they were just glued to doors. The stick knob just broke off. Head lights kept burning out and one would have to take off the tire and plastic lining to change the bulb...I burned the engine by 100K and have not bought another Nissan product since.
The standard and LE Camry has 2 rear drum brakes which really don't work after a few years. You would have to replace and adjust them often to make them work. I prefer the SE and the XLE which have all 4 disc brakes which can take full advantage of the ABS. The brake pedal travel distance can be adjust to be shorter to your liking however.
I never had the chance to test the emergency braking on the Camry. The car always seems to stop in straight line. On wet road, ABS could definitely prevent a lot of fender benders. The key is to use genuine OEM brake pads for maximum performance and to prevent squeaking etc...
I found brakes on the Lexus GS300 is so much better that when driving a Camry, I am scared stiff that the brakes would not stop the car. It's all relative to what you are used to.
I was looking for cars at the Beverly Hills Lexus dealer (Jim Falk Lexus). They stored their cars in various structures in BH and Century City... so one of the sales guy took me out in a GS400. He drove like a maniac in the movies on crowded streets , i.e. like good guys dodging Mafia hitmen... The car could accelerate like a rocket, and stop very smoothly and quietly on a dime. When it was my turn to drive, he encouraged me to abuse the car as much as I want since the car could take it! I was not impressed at all with the demo rides in Mercedez-Benz and BMW cars! This guy was the only guy who could really convince me the Lexus GS is worth twice a Camry or an Accord, and possibly a MB!
The sales people at Beverly Hills Lexus are also very low key and very nice to deal with, compared to all other dealers I visited. They have large inventory of cars and offer fanstastic deals with no haggling. I encourage everyone to check them out for a ride of your life!
Styling is very subjective, although there are
somewhat a consensus on what are obviously beautiful and ugly! I found the syling on the new Accord, especially the hood, the trunk, the rear bumper, and the downward sloping lines on the side ... amateurish and just plain ugly.
The Accord's interior is overstated with the large speedometer in the center of the dashboard. Honda's designers tend to overdo their styling whereas Toyota seem to achieve the simple elegance of classic beauty for their cars.
Peter Pan... for what its worth, the Accord DX and LX ALSO use drum rear brakes.
~alpha
But to put in in perspective in terms of STYLING ONLY I would rate the Altima first, then the Mazda 6, then the Accord, and finally the Camry last.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The Solara does have a nicely styled interior and I had hoped the 2005 update would have made more dramatic improvements to make the Camry interior more similar to the Solara.
The exteriors of both are not that great (but the 2005 update is an improvement for the Camry), but the interior of the Accord looks more modern.
Forget the Gen 4 -- one of the ugliest cars on the road IMHO.
You never know, there could be a generation of Aztek lovers out there in a few years!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I wanted a basic LE and am just interested in may be a leather seat.
Do you think Extra mile protection for 1050 and leather for 1150 (at invoices) are accurately priced? I donot see these prices on Edmunds or KBB.
Toyota has $1000 off till this weekend.
Is it off MSRP or can we ask it off invoice?
Don't you think that TDA (299), MAF(275), 2% holdback (399), PIO Holdback (347), Fleetprice protection (160), are just profits for Dealer and could be avoided?
Please reply as I have to make a decision in 24 hours..
thanks
Older and "wiser" at 32, I wanted a car with all the latest airbags, etc. Unfortunately, my brand new Accord had recurring brake problems, so I ended up trading it in on an 04 Toyota Highlander.
I sometimes feel guilty thinking about the clearly disinterested teenager who ended up buying my Camry. Does he appreciate her as much as I did? Probably not. Whenever I see a white Camry from that era, I think about my old reliable baby.
Yes, absolutely. I don't know what TDA and MAF stand for, but that all sounds like crap and I saw none of those on my contract when I purchased a few months ago. Do not negotiate the price of the car and then let the dealer add on those FIVE (!!!) mark-ups afterwards (not that it sounds like you did that). Make it very clear that you are considering those items as part of the base price of the car and not as separate items.
Then take that offer to another Toyota dealer and see what they say. If you're really after a "basic LE" then you should be paying a lot less, though I don't know what the leather and Extramile (?) options cost.
What do you think?
In this case, its up to you to decide if leather is worth $1114 or not. For me, its not.
~alpha
I can cruise at 95 MPH on long trips without any problem. The car still tracks straight, the steering precise, brakes are decent.... everything in the car is original except one timing belt, a few brake rotors and the power steering's upper stainless-steel lines.
The suspension of the old 89 Camry was firmer than the newer generation, giving much better feels for the road. I have more confidence in the handling of this car at high speed than the 93 Camry! The ride feels tight and taut, similar to, but not as quiet as the MB E320.
It's amazing that the struts in this 89 Camry are still working properly after 250K miles compared to a 93 US Camry that wore them out after 120K miles. The car was on the 3rd new radiator when my wife totaled the car at 200K miles in a broadside accident.
I am convinced that Toyotas assembled in Japan using Japanese components are far more reliable than the US-assembled cars. The US cars may last as long as Japanese cars, but you will probably have to replace components at twice or three times the rate.
The $1100 price tag is another, I guess.
http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr102804.htm
~alpha
The old Camry will always have a special place in my heart, but I'm glad to have a newer car with more safety features.
The Camry had 94,000 miles when I sold it. In my history of cars, that's relatively "young" to give up a car, but I thought it was time.
Interior: Definately Accord wins out there. The Camry interior was pretty good on the 3rd and 4th generation models. The current interior in the Camry just looks so plain to me and uninspired. With The Accord the interior is a beauty. If Honda can just make the exterior alot better looking on the next generation I would consider it and please no mimmicking Ford or GM on exterior styling.
I am struggling which one is better and safer...
2005 Camry SE ( not in Accord LX ):
EBD(Electronic Brake Force Distribution, better brake ),
4 Discs brakes ( Accord only has 2 front discs ),
Fog Lamps, Alloy wheels, wider tire(P215, Accord has P205), Spoiler, Outside Temperature Gauge, 5 year powertrain(Accord has 3 years), shorter emergency brake distance(from report. And I heard that 2003 Accord has brake problem.), seems to have better resell price in Ontario.
2005 Accord LX ( not in Camry SE ):
side airbags, curtain airbags, security system(alarm), better steering(most people say that), better look dashboard(most people say that)
Now, I don't want to drop my coin to make such decision, I would like to listen to your advice for that.
Thanks a lot !!!
Seriously, I love my 2004 Accord. It is probably the best car we have owned overall. I've had the opportunity to both drive and sit in several 02+ Camrys and have not been that impressed. The 4 cylinder engine is MUCH improved over the previous generation Camry though.
In the end it will come down to your personal preferences. If you like a firmer, more controlled ride then you will probably lean towards the Accord. If you prefer a softer, more cushy ride then you will probably lean towards the Camry. Usually you can't go wrong with either choice.
It does not appear that the Camry you are looking at has VSC so I would give the safety edge to the Accord by a landslide. In todays world of SUV's and trucks side curtain airbags could make a significant difference. Hopefully you will never need them though.