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For what its worth, having driven multiple of the new Sonatas, I'd say that the best overall value in the class, for my tastes and preferences, is the GLS V6 with Premium Sport Pkg. MSRP is $22,995 and it will blow the tail off similarly equipped Camry SE 4s and Accord EX 4s. Strong, refined engine, excellent road manners, roomy cabin, thoughtful interior, sharp looking alloys, many features, well developed (and standard!) stability control. Fuel economy is just about the only sacrifice compared to similarly priced but much slower Camcord 4s, and even then, rated at 20/30, its not bad at all. People often play the handling card where the Accord is concerned, but owing to better tire grip and stronger brakes, I found the Sonata more fun and easier to pilot through the handling course at Hyundais invitation only comparison of these three vehicles (the aforementioned stability control didnt hurt either).
my .02, Toyota has work cut out for the Camry remake... and Honda.. well the Accord is still a great machine... but its going to be a long 20 months til the redesign, what with factory to dealer cash already much higher than in the past...
~alpha
But you are right, Honda and Toyota both have yet ANOTHER car to worry about.
In 2002, it was the Altima...for 2006, its the Sonata.
P.S. Nice to see you on Edmunds again, Alpha. I always enjoy your thoughtful, well articulated posts.
~alpha
Styling must be important if Honda is redesigning the whole back end of the Accord...considering that sales are slumping as of late.
I still think the Accord is the best car overall in this class, but the evidence speaks for itself.
And yes we all know Nissan and Toyota offer rebates, but Honda offers dealer incentives...
Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon that reliability is not the only things selling cars anymore. I read an article on it recently. The article mentioned that Honda and Toyota are both now leaning less on their reliability ratings because cars in general are more reliable than they were in the past and they are going to give their cars more styling flair to get with the competition. A Honda exec himself mentioned that the Civic and Accord were getting more "sporty" styling to help with sales loses. The article was on Vtec.net I believe.
Have you seen the new Civic??? (especailly the coupe) It looks more sporty than the previous model...
Back to the Altima...The styling of the Altima is not its ONLY attribute, but its styling may be its best though. I drive one on a day to day basis..so I know.
I have had people ask me if its an Infiniti, Lexus, etc.
I do think its the best looking sedan in the class, but it lacks the refinement overall of the Accord and to a smaller degree the Camry. The Accord has the better ride, interior, and more features for the money than both the CAMRY and ALTIMA...but the Camry rides nicer.
The Altima is roomier than BOTH the Accord and Camry, has more powerful engines (slightly over the Accord though) and gets comparable gas mileage in V6 forms. The I4 needs the 5spd automatic for sure. It also has more radical styling (leave it or love it) and it has better handling than the Carmy.
On top of that, with the new Interior for 05, its slightly below the Camry and Accord in interior refinement. Its still not as good as those cars, but its close from what I have read in magazines thus far.
Reliability is about on par or slightly below the Accord and Camry (which did go down some when they were first introduced)
And like I said, the Altima was a pretty good contender back in 2002...and I read somewhere (I have got to find that article) that if you take away Accord Coupe sales, the Altima is only selling SLIGHTLY less than the Accord.
Altima keeps having record sales every month..Accord keeps loosing sales...
So far this year, Honda has sold 176,232 Accords...this is according to Hondanews.com
Nissan has sold 130,476 Altimas (Nissannews.com) for a difference of 45,756 cars.
That's not that big of a difference, considering Nissan doesn't make a coupe, yet. And definately "nowhere near" as wide as you were thinking :P Sure the Altima has fleet sales, but the Accord has coupe sells and you know if Nissan built a coupe, it would sell about as well as the Accord coupe does (they don't sell well btw) Especially considering that each year Nissan is selling more and more Altimas while the Accord sales are down significantly over 04s, which were down over 03s.
So to keep this thing on topic, I am a firm believer that the Biggest 2 From Japan are going to spend more time getting the styling of their cars together and making them a little more sporty because they now realize that reliability and refinement aren't the only things that keep people buying them anymore.
The Hyundai Sonata is the biggest example of this. They took Honda and Toyota's formula and added some serious content to the overal pkging of the Sonata and priced it THOUSANDS Cheaper than the Accord/Camry/Altima...and guess what?
Toyota is worried and is releasing the new Camry in the early part of 2006.
Honda is bringing out a facelifted (especially the rear end) this Sept.
Nissan is releasing the next Altima around March-June of next Year behind the Camry.
Remember when these cars weren't realeased until Aug-Sept?
Competition is getting stiff my friend
And to end this, since I usually agree with Alpha, I have got to agree once again that Toyota, Honda, Nissan and everybody else has their work cut out for them with the new Sonata. Toyota will be the first to respond to this new comer, followed by Nissan then Honda.
I expect Honda will "do tha dang thing" like they did when the Sienna was released.
In the end, I'm a Packaging Science Major and I hope to be working for one of these companies in the near future..(Especially Toyota)
For a difference of 53,695 cars. Not bad considering the Altima has no coupe, and no hybrid. (YET).
Things move rather quickly it seems.
I hate to tell you this, but you're getting older. Time goes faster as you age because each added year is less relative to the number of previous years you've lived.
For example, when you went from age 5 to 6 years, that was a 20% increase. When you went from 10 to 11 years, it was a 10% increase. When you go from 50 to 51 years, it's only 2%. So each year is relatively shorter within your life span.
Sorry to ruin your day, but that's the way it is;-).............Richard
Either way I can't wait to see the new Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata, etc.
Compared in a couple years.
At my next birthday, the one year increase from my previous birthday will be an increase of only 1.515152 %.
That'll tell you my age and why I said what I did
The Accord EXV6 will get the 6spd manual for 06...
I can't believe that...
Ken
Somewhere on this forum I read that the average age of Camry buyers is a few years older than that of Accord buyers. I feel younger when I drive my Accord and the EX-L driver's seat is good for my back, too.
But the Camry is a superb car with a quieter ride and it's no surprise why it's so popular
thanks
the plastic grill work on Corolla looks cheap and Camry may be too large.
I noticed that too. I personally don't like the current generation Corolla. Something about the car looks awkward to me. IMHO, 1998-2002 MY Corollas were the best looking Corollas of all time. In terms of the Camry being large, I agree. My 92 Camry felt smaller and more nimble than my 03. But I like a quiet, roomy car. And since my fiance and I are getting married in about 4 months, the extra room will come in handy
Have a great day :shades:
In my opinion i prefer the Accord better its interior to me has a better fit and finish. To me the Camry although has a very nice interior seems a little dull in my opinion (even with the SE). As for Civic and Corolla, i prefer Corolla's interior. Exterior paint quality, i am not really sure about that they all seem pretty equal to me.
You should test drove all 4 cars, maybe you may feel Camry feels too big in a parking lot or a Corolla feels to small. I bought the Accord over the Civic becasue i have a family of 4 and the Civic was too small for us. Also look for engine power maybe the 4cylinder Accord and Camry are too underpowered (i prefered V6 because i do a lot of highway driving) The Camry is quieter then the Accord (you'll notice after test driving) but i didn't really care. I prefered the Accord becasue of its slightly tighter suspension, better steering and more powerful V6. It all depends on what you prefer
The Civic will be all new in just a couple of months, so if you buy an '05 Civic now, it'll look old very soon. Don't buy an '05 Civic unless you get a substantially discounted price at this time. The next Corolla I think will be introduced for the 2008 model year--probably in early 2007 (I'm not sure about that, though).
The next Camry is rumored to be introduced early in 2006 as a 2007 model, so buying an '05 or a short-year '06 Camry should be at a deeply discounted price, too. The '07 Camry, when it appears in early '06 will be a very attractive car--much better than the current one IMO.
If you want to buy a car now and don't want it to be obsolete within the next couple of years, I think your best bets are the Corolla for a small car and the Accord for a mid-sized one. They are both excellent and you really can't make a bad choice.
If you want the newest of the new, wait a couple of months for the 2006 Civic which will be a very good and surely a very safe small car with standard ABS, airbags all around, etc. Honda has been making safety features standard and Toyota as been offering them as options. That's enough reason to lean toward the Hondas. Inasmuch as your current car is a Honda Accord and you like it, be assured that the new Accord is a superb car. With respect to Accord engines, the 4 cylinder is fast enough and is much quicker than the engine in your current Accord--test drive it and you'll see. The V6 is faster, of course, but likely to be unnecessary for most normal driving.
Good luck and let us know what you bought..............Richard
So your best choices right now are the 06 Accord (if you want a larger car), 06 Civic or Corolla if you want a smaller car.
The Camry has a little more interior volume, though. Does the V6 get comparable mpg? Most of the folks at work don't car about the "Granny" image as long as it gets them there and has a good radio.
What kind of mixed use mpg do the 4 cylinder models get? One fellow at work with a 4 Accord gets about the same mpg as the V6 on average, but it's obviously a lot slower and works harder.
Honda has made great strides at improving the gas mileage of their 6 cylinder models. They have done extensive testing of their engines and have posted the results for the world to see. I suspect that people have different ways of determining mileage, rather than simply dividing the miles driven by the number of gallons used. Perhaps they don't fill the tank to the same level each time as the pump check function varies from station to station.
Whether it is politically correct or just a status thing, I don't know, but 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder models have different fuel economy.
An inefficient 4 cylinder can certainly get worse gas mileage than an efficient 6 cylinder, but in the case of the Accord both are very efficient so the 4 gets somewhat better gas mileage. Compare the Accord 6 cylinder to the Suzuki Forenza 4 cylinder.
Horsepower Accord 240 Forenza 126
Overall Length Accord 189.5 Forenza 177.2
Curb Weight Accord 3349 Forenza 2756
Fuel Economy Accord 30/21 Forenza 30/22
Nearly identical fuel economy numbers despite the fact the Accord is larger and 600 pounds heavier and has almost 2 times the horsepower.
Now joe122, do you think if we dropped the drivetrain from the Forenza into the Accord it would get anywhere near 30/21? Not a chance (my guess would be 26/19 or so and dog slow also); there is your example of a 4 cylinder engine that is much less efficient than a 6 cylinder one.
With the way Car companies keep coming up with new things, nothing surprises me anymore...
You must also take into affect driving style.
When I drive my Altima I usually get about 25 MPG combined.
When my mother drives the Altima, she usually gets about 30....ummm...
I drive faster than she does :P
I'm sure the Accord and Camry can get much better considering they have more advanced engines with a (better) 5spd automatic.
The Accord V6 is very efficient, but its MPG is about one or 2 less than the Accord 4 which is among the best four cylinder engines available in the U.S.
For the record, my '04 EX-L sedan (4 cyl. with A/T) gets 22.6 MPG in city-only driving and 33.2 MPG in highway-only driving (I tested fuel use when my car had about 2000 miles on it, so it could be slightly better now).
In mixed driving, the Accord runs at about 25 MPG, but was 28 MPG on my last fill-up.
This is quite good for a 3,200 pound car with more than adequate power and is almost the same as my previous car, a '91 Mazda Protege DX A/T that weighed 800 pounds less and was peppy enough, but nowhere nearly as powerful and smooth as the Accord 4 cylinder..............Richard
Next we will have Ford F150 and Dodge Ram V8 owners claiming low mileage.
It is not just about number of cylinders. Fuel Efficiency is about design, engine efficiency, gearing, and other factors.
I have a 2005 Camry SE-V6. For the first 2000 miles, I have averaged 22.4 mpg in what is probably a 70-30 mix of city/highway driving. Around town is 19-20. Only one highway trip so far which averaged 27.5mpg for 400 miles but that included 40 min stuck in stop/go traffic. I am expecting around 29 mpg in constant, legal speed highway driving.
So, not quite as good as your company Accord but unless those figures were calculated using solid miles driven and gallons used data, they are suspect, IMO. I agree with Joe, some of the claims posted here are pretty outrageous.
I looked at the Camry SE-V6 before I bought my 2005 Accord LX I4. It is a beautiful, powerful car, but with the curtain airbag option (and another option) it was a bit more than I wanted to spend. The LX gets ~27 MPG combined; ~25 MPG city and ~34 MPG hwy.
The great thing about these two vehicles is that you can't go wrong with either of them. It's all a matter of personal preference and how much one wants to spend. I could have been very happy with the Accord had stability control been available.
I'm sure the 4 cyl gets good mileage driven moderately on flat highways. We want to know how it will do carrying a 700 lb load at 75-80 mph up and down the hills on Route 89 in VT as you cross the Appalachians is a different case as the V6 will stay in 5th gear when the 4 cyl has to downshift. We have one data point so far and it's about the same as the V6, which after all is still only a 3 liter engine.
Most interesting to me of course is the 6-speed sedan. That's the car I wanted back in 2002 when I bought my first 03 coupe.
garandman: I had a 2004 EX-L automatic sedan. The power is good. It's not overwhelming but it never felt short on power to me and I have a bit of a lead foot. The only trait of the transmission that irritated me is that it is quick to downshift when going up hills. It had plenty of power but the downshifting drove my husband nuts. So we traded it for a 2004 EX-L manual tranny and have been much happier.
Am looking to get either an Accord or Camry come late August/early Sept. Will be in the LAX region. After reading through the posts, forummers seem to recommend the Accord since the new Camry will be coming out very soon. The new Accord will only come out in 07?
Is that a fair comment?
Also in the Toyota section of this forum there is a lot of posts on the rattling noises made by the Camry. Accord has no such problems I presume?
I noticed that Accords are slightly more expensive than the Camry's though.
To some extent, Accords are easier to price because there are no factory options; each Accord is configured as a separate model and that makes shopping among Honda dealers expecially simple so long as there's no trade nor dealer-installed items involved.
Note that all Accords include side curtain airbags that are an option on Camrys and it certainly is wise to have them. Also, I don't think the current Camry's steering wheel telescopes (it does tilt), so it might be easier to fit comfortably in the Accord.
With respect to rattles, go to the Accord "Problems and Solutions" site here on Edmunds and you'll see plenty of Accord rattles, too. My '04 Accord EX-L has been trouble-free with no rattles of enough significance to matter.
Both the Camry and Accord are excellent cars, so you can't make a mistake. If I could turn back the clock, I'd buy the Accord again
My Friend owns a 04 SE V6 and i do notice there are rattling noises (but it doesn't bother me really) With my Accord i haven't noticed any rattling notices yet.
When i bought my car i looked between the SE V6 and EX V6 i noticed the Accord is slightly pricier but i liked the interior, steering and power more. What i did like about the Camry is how quiet the interior can be on the highway and how the suspension can make pop hole filled roads not as bad (even with the SE). What i didn't like about the SE is the styling (i found it a little much).
Note that Accord does come with more features (side curtain airbags, power passenger) and in cars today i would highly suggest to get side curtain airbags. It is a must have IMO.
Hope you pick the right car
Its the car I wanted Honda to offer back in 2003 when I began to seriously look at new cars.
As a matter of fact, I was in an accident this past Tuesday in my Altima (an older guy hit me in the back, which ran me into a U-haul Style truck in front of me)
The car isn't totaled, but I kind wish it was :P \ It will be out of service for a while I think. I hate to see it that way. Because I do love the car.
However, had it been totaled I'd be going to my nearest Honda dealer to get an EXV6 6spd Sedan around Nov. or Dec....make it Silver or Redondo Red please.
Too bad I guess. Maybe the next Gen. Accord will offer the 6spd manual in V6 form in time for my Clemson University Graduation present??
I sure hope so.....
You can read several different books published by MIT about the world automotive industry and the relative labor content of the manufacturers; the amount of factor floor space required per car; and their product development times. They also compare the ability of some manufacturers to make a profit at production volumes half that of competitors. No industry figures, anywhere, support your opinion.
I had a silver 04 automatic and now have a redondo red 04 5-speed. My husband prefers the looks of the silver with black interior while I prefer the red with the two-tone dark/light gray interior. If I do buy the 6-speed it will be a tough choice color-wise. Owning 4 Accords from this generation is goofy enough but I would hate to buy one of the same colors I have already had.
I'm willing to bet Desert Mist and Deep Green Pearl (if its still made) won't be color choices.
I'd take the dark gray with gray interior..my Altima is "Smoke" and I LOVE that color when its clean...
I guess I should have worded it better.
I get this idea because the Dersert Mist isn't available on the EXV6 6spd coupe.
It goes against the whole "sporty" idea.
Carbon Bronze (replacing Graphite Pearl??) will be available with either Black or Ivory interior.
I wanna see an EXV6 6spd. in Black...Gray..or BLUE.
I can truly say that I wish I was in your financial situation Anonymous.
I simply can't afford to trade mine in...
If I could...I probably would. :P