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I wasn't aware that you could install power windows aftermarket. If so, you might want to talk him out of that.
That's got to be expensive as all get out. Power windows aren't even an option on the Echo either, so the aftermarket version is probably going to look aftermarket and operate with the same precision.
I had a car once with the roll-down type windows and I didn't think it was all that bad. Actually, if power windows had been an option on my Elantra, I probably wouldn't have sprung for them.
I called Best Buy, and they said they don't put in power windows anymore. They used to do it though, and it was like $150 a pair or something like that. Also, they won't install power locks unless they install an alarm (which the car already has). So he is SOL on both options.
And power windows and locks, and keyless entry are all options on the Echo. But that started in the 2001 model year. His doesn't even have a clock though, let alone power windows...
Vocus, you own a Jetta and you're making comments about Hyundais not being reliable? ;-) How many times have you had it back in the shop for problems since you've owned it? I recall someone talking about all the problems with their Jetta, rattles and so on--I don't recall if that was you, however. Based on CR's records, the '01 Jetta just edged out the Elantra (by about one millimeter on their chart) in predicted reliability, and the '00 Elantra bested the '00 Jetta. That's not a big difference. The Santa Fe has also done pretty well in reliability, just missing the "Average" mark in CR's survey in its first year. It also was highly ranked in the JD Powers Initial Quality survey, if you take stock in that one.
My Jetta has been back to the dealer a good amount of times with rattles as the only problem. And that has nothing to do with this, because I was comparing the Hyundai with the Toyota and not the Jetta.
I never said I personally didn't trust Hyundais. I said they haven't caught on in the US as reliable cars yet. Some people say "ewww" still when you say Hyundai to them. They don't with Toyota, even though some of their cars had sludging problems with the engine.
I wouldn't trust the Hyundai as much as the Toyota, I don't think anyone would. Toyotas have a long history of good reliability, save the sludge problem. Also, CR didn't recommend the Hyundai (I thought I read that anyway) because of poor first year reliability. Any truth in that one? I originally tried to find my friend a used ECHO anyway, but the prices were too high. So this was kinda blessing in disguise.
So I never said anything personally about the Hyundai. If I didn't think the Hyundai was a good car, I would not have recommended it to my best friend, would I?
>>> Also, CR didn't recommend the Hyundai (I thought I read that anyway) because of poor first year reliability. Any truth in that one? <<<
Partial truth. CR only rated the Elantra, Santa Fe, and Sonata in their latest reliability survey. As I mentioned earlier, the '00 Elantra was rated Average, and the '01 Elantra Below Average (not Poor), just a hair below the Average category if you look at the bar chart. The '01 Santa Fe was also rated Below Average (not Poor), even a thinner hair from Average. The Sonata was the only Hyundai that CR said had "poor" reliability. In order to get a "Recommended" from CR, a car has to have a decent showing in on-road tests and at least an "Average" predicted reliability and at least fair crash-test scores.
I know that people don't trust Hyundai as much as Toyota (maybe comes from Toyota selling its cars here and building up a reputation over five decades) and that some people turn up their noses at the thought of owning a Hyundai. Their loss--Hyundai makes some good cars now.
1) SOnata GLS-V6 , 84,000+ miles(1999 model). Only had a minor gas tank valve problem, took 1 hour to fix. That is all of the probloems that i have had. I also got the car(leather, sun/moonroof, cd,am/fm/cassette 120 watt stereo, 8 wya and height adjusting drivers seat)for under 18 grand brand new......... So, what do you think, unreliable? 2) 2001 Tiburon... 15 months old, 42,000+ miles, Zero Problems. Unreliable?
There you have it, Opinon vs Facts. Opinions come from non-owners, because that is all they can give you. I could(if I had a scanner, or you were here) Show you proof...that = facts, to me anyways.
I looked at 15 Hyundai's before buying one, because I too(like you?) was leery of their reputation. When I started to see 5 year old Accents with 75,000-113,000 miles on them , running daily w/o problems, and the 1992 Elantra (now has 223,000 on it) at college, running daily, 10 below or 110 above zero, I began to wonder if some of these horror stories were just that. Stories of ( mainly) myth.
They seem to be, judging from what I have just (honestly) told you. Don't mean to sound gruff, just annoys me... Look at used Hyundais in parking lots or on used car dealership lots., see the mileage, check out the whole car, maybe even go drive one.
Take-Care. At least you said your piece w/o being a negative person, and I congratulate you on that. Sorry If I came off like a grouch. hjr2
CR's reliability survey results are not opinions, but statistics (facts) gathered from thousands of car owners. There is a subjective element in the survey, because CR asks owners to judge whether a problem with their car is "significant". So it's not perfect. But it's a more meaningful survey, IMO, with their sample size of thousands of owners, than a sample size of two cars from one owner--which a statistician would tell you is "statistically insignificant". Not to say that it's insignificant to the owner of the two cars, of course. Just as the fact that my '01 Elantra has been reliable in its first two years is significant to me, but in the big picture it's just one car out of tens of thousands. What studies like CR's show is that the probability of a problem is still higher overall with a Hyundai than with makes like Toyota and Honda. That doesn't mean there aren't reliable Hyundais and unreliable Toyotas and Hondas out there. These surveys also show that Hyundai's reliability is improving, and as of the '01 model year it was getting close to the industry average for at least its latest models, the Elantra and Santa Fe. That's progress. Think about it... if Hyunidai's reliability record were as good as Toyota's and Honda's, and given the quality of Hyundai's current designs, what would happen? Hyundai would be able to raise its prices! And drop its long-term warranty. I like higher reliability, but I like the low prices and the long warranty too.
What most people don't realize about CR is that in addition to the surveys, they purchase their test vehicles, break them in, and drive them for several months, just like us (except we keep ours longer). I appreciate the longer test period before the report is published, unlike other magazines. AND I appreciate combining their info with that of the car mags, who may be less objective. I've heard people say to "ignore" CR -- why would anyone discard good information, when I can read it along with car mags? A smart car shopper reads all sources of information. It is CR's good review of the Elantra, in fact, that tipped my decision in favor of it.
They don't claim it's any kind of reliability study(in academic sense) like the IQS study by JD Power. What they publish is graphical representation of arithmetic tallying of the survey. They cannot run statistics on the survey returns because the sample is not valid to begin with. Those are from CR subscribers who choose to fill out the form and mail it in. So even if we assume the population size is the subsciber base, you still can't do any meaningful study on them. To do any statistical analysis on survey data, the sample must be random sample of the population, all cars on the road in the US. Random sampling is the crux of statistics and whole another subject.
I read the post by vocus on Sep 23, 2002 regarding the mileage that he gets with his Elantra 5spd. I have been seriously weighing a Elantra GT against a Honda EX, and the mileage could be a signinficant factor for me. Is Vocus' 34 mpg in mixed driving and 40+ on long stretchs typical or a fluke? How are the rest of you doing in the fuel econo category with your 2001-2001 Elantra 5 5pds?
My 5-speed's mileage has been very consistent with EPA ratings, although my city driving MPG has been better than the rated 25 (I am usually around 27-30) and very close to the rated 33 highway. And I am a leadfoot around town and on the freeway -- typically 80 mph and higher. These are not the figures I would like, considering my last little car's mileage of always over 30 no matter what the driving. But I also remind myself that my Elantra has 35% more horsepower than Betsy II, so I am happy. P.S. That Civic EX is so expensive!
Just my own personal experience here. I used to drive a 99 Accent (leased) and had absolutely no problems at all over the 58K miles I drove her, and I will be honest, I was not the most loyal of oil changers. When I turned the car in, all the mechanics were in perfect working order according to the appraiser that checked it.
Hubby's 98 Accent with 60K Miles under its belt - and being driven by a man who likes to drive very aggresively - has had no problems whatsoever.
Reliability? Hyundai has sold me! And this from a woman that once owned an 86 Pony that was a piece of junk. I swore never to enter a Hyundai dealer ever again, but back in the fall of 98, my hubby convinced me to give them one more chance. Am I glad I did.
I now drive an 02 Elantra GT - almost 5K in her first month, and I absolutely adore her!
And bear in mind all the weather we have to deal with up here in Montreal. Only time my Accent didn't start was the day I left the lights on in the parking lot at work.
I have an Elantra GT fitted with a Draw-Tite hitch that I use occasionnally to tow a light trailer (±375 lbs). The maximum gross weight of the trailer is 1200 lbs (trailer+load). I have used it on long distance hauls (500 miles+) without any problem whatsoever. I don't even feel the presence of the trailer.
I think the reported 34 mixed/mid 40s highway was an "outlyer", i.e. exceptionally good. Most posts I've seen over the past couple of years for mpg on the 5-speed Elantra are more like mid-to-upper 20s for mixed driving and low-to-mid 30s for highway. My numbers fall into that range; for about a year now I've been averaging 28-29 mpg in mostly city driving (including city freeways) with tops of 35 on a long trip. The highest mpg I've ever gotten on my 5-speed Elantra is 40 mpg, and that was in ideal conditions (50 degrees, humid, no a/c, 60-70 mph on a level freeway). So unless you are really lucky, you can't count on an Elantra's mpg beating a Civic's. One thing you should do though is calculate how much the difference in mpg will really cost you. You could use the difference in EPA mpg ratings for your estimate. Then compare that cost to the price difference. For me, it was a no-brainer: my GLS cost under $12k while the EX would have cost me close to $17k, plus I liked the ride and interior comfort of the Elantra better than the Civic.
Purchased a 2003 midnight gray Elantra GLS auto w// package #2 on Friday. A little over a hundred miles on it so far and its great. However, I'd like to upgrade the head unit (mp3 CD player by JVC or Pioneer) and stock speakers (Alpine or Polk coaxials) on it. However, I am getting conflicting info from various sources as to the size of the speakers in the front. Some say 5 1/4", some 6 3/4" and some 7"! Would anyone who has upgraded these audio parts please shed some light onto this confusion? I'd like to get speakers that drop right in without any mods to the doors (cutting, etc). Thanks in advance!
I just bought my second 02 Elantra this year - his and hers. I love the car. Great feel, ride, and value. Would highly recommend it. If your interested, just read the posts here. In general, you'll find very satisfied customers. I researched other vehicles and the posts were much different. Also, thanks for pointing out that rear seat cupholder. My wife and I had our first car for 6 months before I read a post and located it. What a trip!
In it's November issue, Car and Driver compares 10 sedans under $16,000. The Elantra GLS ranked 2nd, one little point out of one hundred behind the Mazda Protege. In the process it beat Corolla, Focus, Civic and Mitsubishi Lancer (3rd through 7th respectively). Their only complaints about the GLS were it's "Stinky new-car smell" and high-speed handling that they felt was "a little queasy". Singled out for praise was the Elantra's driver's seat with it's separate knobs for fore and aft adjustment of seat height ("Best in the business."). They also liked the car's solid structure and strong engine. Like they said "Hyundai has finally earned a place at the head table."
I own a 2002 Hyundai Elantra.The color is chianti red. I purchased it in Oct. of 2001. About 3 months ago, I noticed that the paint was blistering and it was peeling off. It starts with a small blister like spot which then turns into a larger spot which then peels off. I have about 20 of these spots over the top surfaces of my car. I went back to the dealer where I bought my car. They told me I would have to meet with the factory rep. It took about a month to get to see him. When he looked at my car, he said that there was no defect, but that there must have been some droppings which got onto my car and made the paint come off. I did not agree and told him I would be going further. Since my meeting with him, I have met 3 other Hyundai Elantra owners with the same problem. Their colors are the same and their paint is blistering and peeling off just like mine. I have gotten names and addresses, vin numbers, and where they bought their cars. I would like to know if anyone else is having this problem and if you have had good or bad results with your dealer and factory rep. If we get enough of us, they will have no choice but to listen and to fix our cars.
I'd have to agree with the assessment. If any car beats the Elantra it would be the Pro. Especially since C&D emphasizes handling and the Pro. certainly beats it there. Glad to finally see some recognition, especially since they stiffed the GT in their sporty hatch comparo.
I usually get my C/D about two weeks behind everyone else it seems, but I can't wait to read that review. I too am not surprised that C/D would put the Protege (which model, btw? LX or ES?) on top, since they overemphasize handling in every comparo they do. It doesn't matter if the car is slow, rides like it's on a washboard, or has paltry equipment vs. the competition. It would be interesting to see how the new GT sedan would compare to the Protege, since the handling would be better on the GT and the price would be more comparable to the Protege--and the GT's equipment list would blow away the Pro.
I have read this magazine every month for the past 10 years. But I never follow its rating/recommendation. They represent a niche, not the auto buyers in general.
Resale value or long term reliability is never a concern/factor to them.
For compact cars, they seldom want to test models with auto transmission, even though it's the choice of the vast majority consumers.
When they talk about price, it means MSRP ONLY. So, a Saturn SL1 will be cheaper than a Cavalier, even though in the real world, Cavalier is at least $3k cheaper.
Very inconsistent testing procedures. Two years ago, when Acura TL-S just came out, they drove it to a mountain and claimed it could at least match or even beat a BMW 3-series in handling. A month ago, when they test those cars again, they said TL-S was not even a sport sedan. Within those 2 years, their 0-60mph number for TL-S went from 6.6s to 7.6s, even though the car has the same engine/transmission and about the same weight.
Their conclusions contradict their own testing results. In 1994, when they did a comparison test of family sedans, Accord LX had the lowest skidpad reading (0.74g) by a clear margin. Yet they claimed Accord is the sportiest family sedan.
I agree with you. My 96 Accord LX had lower spidpad reading than my 98 ES300 (0.74g vs 0.80g). I can clearly tell this difference when I push both cars to limit. Yet, the Accord's firmer steering encouraged me to push it to the limit while I didn't feel comfortable to push ES300 to its limit. The sad news is that Accord is just a pretender w/o true capacity.
Where's my November Car and Driver?!?! (Please Mr. Postman, look and see...). Finally, the Elantra gets its due from a favorite car mag (not THE favorite, but still a great read). Thanks for the heads-up gtfan.
jjpcat, who cares if the majority drives an automatic? Some of us prefer to DRIVE our cars, not just ride in them. C/D is a magazine for enthusiasts, and to "never follow" their advice is silly. Add it to the mix of information from ALL sources when deciding on a car.
If the steering and brakes are numb though, the car will certainly not "feel" sporty.
On a different note, who would buy Car and Driver if it didn't test DRIVERS' cars? That is just silly.
If you want to know what John Q. Public thinks about the entry-level automatics and family cars that 90% of the population purchases, Consumer Reports or Consumer Digest are much better choices. Consumer Reports hasn't "tested" a stick for about twenty years.
>>> Consumer Reports hasn't "tested" a stick for about twenty years. <<<
Not true, although they test mostly automatics (which most Americans buy). When CR tests sports cars, they test sticks. I know I've seen a review with stick-shift cars in CR in the past twenty years, e.g. when they tested the Miata and similar cars.
Also note that it's the Focus, not the Protege, that's consistently listed on C&D's very own 10Best Cars list. You'd think that the Focus would score higher than it did just based on that alone. Furthermore, the Protege was given the award for its handling, but they ranked the Corolla (not exactly world renowned for its handling) ahead of the Focus, with its so-called European handling.
But if the Protege has not been on the 10Best list or has dropped off, it is not eligible to be on the list again until it is redesigned. The Focus has been on since its introduction.
I understand that. That's why I think it's weird that the Protege has won every comparo it's been in (some against the Focus), yet it's hasn't been on the 10Best list.
All it had to do was miss being on the list its first year, which was 1999. It very well could test better than the Focus, and yet the Focus will continue to be eligible for the list.
jimbeaumi- But the Elantra was also redesigned. I believe it came after the Focus. And if C&D ranks the Elantra ahead of the Focus in this comparo...then shouldn't it be the Elantra that's on the 10Best List and not the Focus?
I'm just agreeing with jjpcat regarding C&D's inconsistency.
The '01 Elantra came out before C/D woke up and realized that the Focus was a disaster on wheels, based on all its recalls and NHTSA safety actions, and also that it had some issues re driver comfort. By the time they woke up and started dissing the Focus in recent comparos, it was too late for the Elantra for the 10Best. They did give the GLS a positive road test review. They have managed to completely ignore the GT though, leaving it off the qualifier list for 10Best and never reviewing it or including it their 5-door comparo.
LOL backy...I was waiting. I was going to bring up the Elantra GT in case Jim was going to counter my post about the Elantra either not coming before the Focus or if C&D specifically picked the Focus hatchback, and not the sedan, in its 10Best list.
One of the first sentences in the Elantra review in C&D (I just got mine today in the mail!) was to the affect of, "the Elantra has finally arrived". That's what I have been saying all along, and I don't even own one!
Vocus, I received mine today and was very happy with the review. On the editor's ratings chart, though (pg. 71), I believe they may have reversed the styling and value rankings. Clearly, the car is a "10" for value; their last comment in the text suggests as much. And if they really had ranked it a "10" for styling, that also would have been reflected in this review. So good to see both subjective and objective reviews that rate this car highly.
I know there were posts before about the paint chips. I just notice they I have a chiping spot on my hood. It is probably from the bird droppings, but I wash my car at least once month if not more often, and I had never had it happen on any of my cars. The dropping are on the car never more then a week, because I try to get them off, or it rains by then and they come off themselves. I can not wash my car every week or every time I notice droppings. It is not supposed to happend that quick. There is something wrong with the paint. I did not take the car to the dealer yet because I am very busy, but I wanted to know if you guy were able to do something about the. My car is not eve a year old yet (9 mo), and it should not happen. Hyundai should fix it. Let me know. Thanks. Bart
Sorry to hear about your chips. But kudos on your ingenuity in grabbing #3000 with a two-part posting!
What color is the paint? Some people have reported problems with red and black. I haven't had any trouble with my champagne Elantra in two years, but the car is garaged at night, which might make a difference.
Comments
That's got to be expensive as all get out. Power windows aren't even an option on the Echo either, so the aftermarket version is probably going to look aftermarket and operate with the same precision.
I had a car once with the roll-down type windows and I didn't think it was all that bad. Actually, if power windows had been an option on my Elantra, I probably wouldn't have sprung for them.
And power windows and locks, and keyless entry are all options on the Echo. But that started in the 2001 model year. His doesn't even have a clock though, let alone power windows...
I never said I personally didn't trust Hyundais. I said they haven't caught on in the US as reliable cars yet. Some people say "ewww" still when you say Hyundai to them. They don't with Toyota, even though some of their cars had sludging problems with the engine.
I wouldn't trust the Hyundai as much as the Toyota, I don't think anyone would. Toyotas have a long history of good reliability, save the sludge problem. Also, CR didn't recommend the Hyundai (I thought I read that anyway) because of poor first year reliability. Any truth in that one? I originally tried to find my friend a used ECHO anyway, but the prices were too high. So this was kinda blessing in disguise.
So I never said anything personally about the Hyundai. If I didn't think the Hyundai was a good car, I would not have recommended it to my best friend, would I?
Partial truth. CR only rated the Elantra, Santa Fe, and Sonata in their latest reliability survey. As I mentioned earlier, the '00 Elantra was rated Average, and the '01 Elantra Below Average (not Poor), just a hair below the Average category if you look at the bar chart. The '01 Santa Fe was also rated Below Average (not Poor), even a thinner hair from Average. The Sonata was the only Hyundai that CR said had "poor" reliability. In order to get a "Recommended" from CR, a car has to have a decent showing in on-road tests and at least an "Average" predicted reliability and at least fair crash-test scores.
I know that people don't trust Hyundai as much as Toyota (maybe comes from Toyota selling its cars here and building up a reputation over five decades) and that some people turn up their noses at the thought of owning a Hyundai. Their loss--Hyundai makes some good cars now.
2) 2001 Tiburon... 15 months old, 42,000+ miles, Zero Problems.
Unreliable?
There you have it, Opinon vs Facts.
Opinions come from non-owners, because that is all they can give you. I could(if I had a scanner, or you were here) Show you proof...that = facts, to me anyways.
I looked at 15 Hyundai's before buying one, because I too(like you?) was leery of their reputation.
When I started to see 5 year old Accents with 75,000-113,000 miles on them , running daily w/o problems, and the 1992 Elantra (now has 223,000 on it) at college, running daily, 10 below or 110 above zero, I began to wonder if some of these horror stories were just that. Stories of
( mainly) myth.
They seem to be, judging from what I have just (honestly) told you.
Don't mean to sound gruff, just annoys me... Look at used Hyundais in parking lots or on used car dealership lots., see the mileage, check out the whole car, maybe even go drive one.
Take-Care. At least you said your piece w/o being a negative person, and I congratulate you on that.
Sorry If I came off like a grouch.
hjr2
Hubby's 98 Accent with 60K Miles under its belt - and being driven by a man who likes to drive very aggresively - has had no problems whatsoever.
Reliability? Hyundai has sold me! And this from a woman that once owned an 86 Pony that was a piece of junk. I swore never to enter a Hyundai dealer ever again, but back in the fall of 98, my hubby convinced me to give them one more chance. Am I glad I did.
I now drive an 02 Elantra GT - almost 5K in her first month, and I absolutely adore her!
And bear in mind all the weather we have to deal with up here in Montreal. Only time my Accent didn't start was the day I left the lights on in the parking lot at work.
Purchased a 2003 midnight gray Elantra GLS auto w// package #2 on Friday. A little over a hundred miles on it so far and its great. However, I'd like to upgrade the head unit (mp3 CD player by JVC or Pioneer) and stock speakers (Alpine or Polk coaxials) on it. However, I am getting conflicting info from various sources as to the size of the speakers in the front. Some say 5 1/4", some 6 3/4" and some 7"! Would anyone who has upgraded these audio parts please shed some light onto this confusion? I'd like to get speakers that drop right in without any mods to the doors (cutting, etc). Thanks in advance!
Singled out for praise was the Elantra's driver's seat with it's separate knobs for fore and aft adjustment of seat height ("Best in the business."). They also liked the car's solid structure and strong engine.
Like they said "Hyundai has finally earned a place at the head table."
Resale value or long term reliability is never a concern/factor to them.
For compact cars, they seldom want to test models with auto transmission, even though it's the choice of the vast majority consumers.
When they talk about price, it means MSRP ONLY. So, a Saturn SL1 will be cheaper than a Cavalier, even though in the real world, Cavalier is at least $3k cheaper.
Very inconsistent testing procedures. Two years ago, when Acura TL-S just came out, they drove it to a mountain and claimed it could at least match or even beat a BMW 3-series in handling. A month ago, when they test those cars again, they said TL-S was not even a sport sedan. Within those 2 years, their 0-60mph number for TL-S went from 6.6s to 7.6s, even though the car has the same engine/transmission and about the same weight.
Their conclusions contradict their own testing results. In 1994, when they did a comparison test of family sedans, Accord LX had the lowest skidpad reading (0.74g) by a clear margin. Yet they claimed Accord is the sportiest family sedan.
jjpcat, who cares if the majority drives an automatic? Some of us prefer to DRIVE our cars, not just ride in them. C/D is a magazine for enthusiasts, and to "never follow" their advice is silly. Add it to the mix of information from ALL sources when deciding on a car.
If the steering and brakes are numb though, the car will certainly not "feel" sporty.
On a different note, who would buy Car and Driver if it didn't test DRIVERS' cars? That is just silly.
If you want to know what John Q. Public thinks about the entry-level automatics and family cars that 90% of the population purchases, Consumer Reports or Consumer Digest are much better choices. Consumer Reports hasn't "tested" a stick for about twenty years.
Not true, although they test mostly automatics (which most Americans buy). When CR tests sports cars, they test sticks. I know I've seen a review with stick-shift cars in CR in the past twenty years, e.g. when they tested the Miata and similar cars.
I agree, they're pretty inconsistent.
That is kinda weird. The Protege has won 3 comparison tests in C&D (every comparo it's been in) since it was introduced in 99'.
I'm just agreeing with jjpcat regarding C&D's inconsistency.
Backy said it well. And actually, the Elantra was listed as a 10Best nominee with an asterisk* -- sample not available at press time.
Not ridiculous at all. No need to foam at the mouth and increase the heart rate.
I know there were posts before about the paint chips. I just notice they I have a chiping spot on my hood. It is probably from the bird droppings, but I wash my car at least once month if not more often, and I had never had it happen on any of my cars. The dropping are on the car never more then a week, because I try to get them off, or it rains by then and they come off themselves. I can not wash my car every week or every time I notice droppings. It is not supposed to happend that quick. There is something wrong with the paint. I did not take the car to the dealer yet because I am very busy, but I wanted to know if you guy were able to do something about the. My car is not eve a year old yet (9 mo), and it should not happen. Hyundai should fix it. Let me know. Thanks. Bart
What color is the paint? Some people have reported problems with red and black. I haven't had any trouble with my champagne Elantra in two years, but the car is garaged at night, which might make a difference.