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Comments
carleton--You should work for one of the presidential campaigns (assuming you do not already).
Yes, I was impressed that the GC was quieter than my 300m, but not amused.
gcintender,
I don't know of any website for the $500 coupon, As a current DC owner, I got mine in the mail from my dealer.
We started looking for a minivan early this summer, and were leaning to the Odyssey. However, we decided to hold off and wait to see the new T&C. We did the test drive and were impressed, and are now leaning to the T&C. After waiting all these months, my wife wants to get it now (she's tired of hauling our baby in and out of a 10 year old 2 door Nissan Sentra). However, I've read that a new 3.5L engine will be available in March that is more efficient and boosts the horses to 230. Is it worth the wait? Anyone know anything more about the new engine? We tend to keep our cars for a long time, and I can't bear the thought of dropping $35K (with taxes)on a new car only to be driving around with an outdated engine within a few months.
Buy now, buy later?
Second Question: One salesman told me that even if you don't intend to tow anything, its worth it to get the tow package for the bigger radiator and the oil pan cooler in hotter climates such as Sacramento. Should I bite?
I do endorse the tow package since it does have a factory tranny and oil cooler as well as a larger radiator. The most benefit of this package is the factory tranny cooler. If you want to added later it'll be a big pain. I believe the tow package may also offer 4 wheel disc which used to be available only on AWD vehicles. Hope this helps.
1.(and most important) my wife wanted the van NOW and
2. I don't think that the 3.5 will be better for towing.
Torque is the key for towing and the 3.8 has 245 lb.ft at 4000 rpm and 215 hp at 5000 rpm. The current 3.5 in the 300M has 250 lb. ft at 3950 rpm and 250 hp at 6400 rpm. The dodge version in the Intrepid is 248 lb ft at 3950 rpm and 242 hp at 6400 rpm so.....
the 3.8 gives very nearly the same torque within 50 rpms of the 3.5 but you really need to rev the 3.5 to see the extra horse power. I know the 3.5 very well since I've been driving one for over two years now in the 300M. Its a great engine but I think that its better suited for a performance car, not a utility vehicle. OR said differently, if the 3.5 were available today, I would still opt for the 3.8 because we do frequent light towing with the van.
IMHO The towing package is worth every penny. In addition to extra cooling and full size spare and bigger battery,you get the load leveling suspension too.
Hope that wasn't to long winded...
That won't stop me from bugging the dealers about it anyway. Maybe if I whine about it enough they'll give me a coupon.
According to http://us.media.daimlerchrysler.com/special/minivan_2001/tc_features_e.htm, the differences between the 3.5 (in the T&C, not the 300M)and 3.8 are even closer than Crunch mentioned: 3.5: 230 bhp @6,400 RPM, 250 lb-ft @4,000 RPM; 3.8: 215 bhp @5,000 RPM, 245 lb-ft @4,000 RPM.
So only about a 2% torque difference. And who knows what the 3.5L's bhp is reduced to at 5,000 RPM. Also, the above mentions 89 octane "preferred" for the 3.5L, so I would assume the better performance is with that gasoline, and the differences on 87 octane might be even less.
They don't mention any gearing differences.
Both engines are 17/23 mpg, so there appears to be no fuel efficiency difference.
Also, 6,400 RPM is not where I need maximum horsepower on a minivan.
Finally, the skeptic in me says that the 3.5L might not happen, like the adjustable pedals, because the 3.5 and 3.8 aren't more differentiated.
The new engine has a completely different intake manifold. The torque seems better because the engine is so much quieter above 3000 rpms. This engine really moves and has produced good gas mileage out of the box. Expect 21-24 mpg on the road after 1000 mile breakin.
In real life, look at the hp and torque curve from 2000 to 4000 rpms. This new version of the 3.8 will not disappoint.
3.5 vs 3.8 - I really doubt chrysler will make two completely different motors that end up performing almost identical. The true test will come when the 3.5 is out. The above web site lists the same gearing for 3.5 and 3.8 motors (the 3.3 actually gets the best pulling gears). I think if they do use identical transmissions and rear end ratios then they are not taking advantage of the 3.5 potential. They are making it into something with a very high top speed which is useless as it will electronically governed. I wonder if there would be a new transmission, it can't use the 300m transmission as it is normal, not transverse like the caravan. Maybe they would just be changing the ratios to use the 3.5 power curves better.
My wife and I were horribly disappointed in out test drive yesterday of a new Caravan (2001). I have not seen any comments about our experience.
As soon as I closed the driver's door, my left knee was pressed painfully by the plastic bulge that contains the window and lock controls. There was no position I could put the seat that would eliminate the painful plastic rim from hitting my knee. It was rounded a bit, but still very uncomfortable.
We drove a 2000 model, and it's driver door was very nice, concave and padded. Our 1991 is not perfect, but I am amazed that the ergonomic engineers at DC missed this one.
We also noticed that the center dash console extends all the way to the floor. Our 1991 Caravan has a 6 or 7 inch space between it and the floor, a nice place to stretch your right leg occasionally on long trips.
We are both over 6 feet tall, and the limited head room was also a problem.
We have been looking forward to this van for months and had planned on buying one soon. I hope DC takes a quick look at fitting me in.
Bill
This is just my opinion. You are free to disagree.
Thanks!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
9/20 ordered Grand Caravan ES AWD at dealership;
9/26 'C' status (sub firm);
9/28 'D1' status (gateline schedule) est. build date 10/5; VIN assigned;
10/5 'E' status (frame);
10/6 'KZ' status (released by plant, invoiced);
10/11 railcar assigned.
I've been able to enter my railcar number into Norfolk Southern Railroad's tracking system and see that the railcar is in Detroit today. Sooner or later, I'm expecting NS to hand it off to BNSF on which I should be able to track it by VIN to the west coast on their web site.
Knowing your railcar number as you do, go to www.nscorp.com and their Quik Trak system and find out where it is. If you do, you'll probably know more than your dealer does about its whereabouts.
Good luck,
--rolfe.
I mention this because this seems to be a pretty secret offering -- I can't find it on any Dodge or Chrysler web site, and my dealer doesn't seem to know about it. Yours may have little incentive (read 'none') in mentioning it.
--rolfe.
If you need to tow right away, better check this out with your dealer before you buy.
If you're in Jersey, though, stay away from Teterboro Chrysler. A lot of misleading attempts to convince you that you don't know what you're talking about when it doesn't fit their profit maximization.
Here's the problem - we've always owned Honda's and have never bought an American car. We've owned more Honda's/Acuras than I can count over the years as well as some Nissans, a Volvo and a Mercedes... We've always been very happy with Honda and I know from experience that if there's ever a problem, Honda stands by their cars. I also know that Chrysler has had their problems. My sister bought an early '96 T/C which was the first year of that body and had a lot of trouble over a four year period. The extent of "weird" problems was unbelievable and Chrysler didn't do much of anything to help her out. I guess we're just leary of reliability. I've heard that the 98-2000's were better though.
I'm also wondering how much Daimler-Benz has to do with Chrysler these days. I know from experience that Mercedes is very customer service focused. If they've had any influence over the design of the 2001 T/C and/or customer service support for Chrysler vehicles, I'd feel more comfortable with a decision to buy a T/C.
It sounds like we're now in the same dilema you were in several weeks ago. If Chrysler's reputation for reliability was as good as Honda's, I'd have bought one today.
Just looking for some thoughts...thanks in advance for any help.
I do not have any idea how the 2001 T&C van will do as far as reliabilty, but two days ago I spoke to the service manager at a dealership that sells Chrysler and Honda. I asked him if recent Chrysler products are closing the gap with Hondas reliabilty. He said there is now very little difference between quality in the two product lines.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Ed
it has nothing to do with the engine compartment size. the seals on the 41te were rather poor up until about 96 when a newer type seal went into production. and...it never hurts to have a tranny cooler. consistent high temperatures are the biggest threat to long term tranny durability.
own DC minivans has had any problems. That magazine had often stated vehicles were "Not Recommended" since they were unreliable...yet we had no problems with many of them.
I agree with indydriver: Buy the vehicle you
like and trust if you can get one with the features you feel are important.
Where do you see the documentation stating that the new Caravans have a 5 year powertrain warranty and 5 year road side assistance? According to the Dodge rep (their 1-800 line), that warranty expired for the 2001 awhile back and it was only for fleet vehicles (or something to that effect). They said it's still a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty for both.
I just need this clarified. Our 2001 GC ES AWD just arrived on the dealer lot. We haven't taken delivery yet and I'd like to know this warranty info prior to signing the papers...
the dc canadian powertrain warranty has just been increased to 5yr/100km(aprox 62k statute miles) on all 01 models and will be retroactive to those who purchased 01 models before the new warranty took affect. however, at least for now, it doesn't appear that dc will offer this particular warranty to the usa customers...why??
My only question was whether it was worth waiting until the new 3.5L engine. Posts in this forum were to the contrary, suggesting there wasn't much difference in the engine.
Anyone have a sense of how pricing is going? Close to invoice?
I suspect (and this is not an attempt to troll) that it may have something to do with the website below. If this author's book is widely available in Canada, it could explain DaimlerChrysler's action:
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/chrysler.htm
indydriver- your right about the troll thing, god knows we need another one of them.
Aminh96- your are just plain exagerating, how could you lose $20000? A fully loaded 2000 T&C limited AWD costs $28000 right now at the dealer brand new. Even if you paid that much for your 97 model the fact you only got $8000 trade in just shows a lack of car buying sense.
#1. He is a Chrysler mechanic and one of my wife's patient.
#2. I bought it on 03/1997 and paid $31K+.
#3. I traded it in for $11500 at a MB dealer. The dealer showed me three different used car price books which showed the maximum priced I can get is $12K+ if the van is in excellent condition.
#4. We were looking for an Acura MDX but did not want to pay MSRP and was leery of the fact that this is a first year SUV. We got a MB ML320 with M1 and M2 packages, Bose stereo, heated seats, sun roof, all weather floor mats and running board for $38K+
#5. I have 3 vehicles.
a chilling effect on trade-in for all of us. Too many rental vehicles are abused and trashed while in service as a rental. Most people just do not drive a rental responsibly as they would if they actually owned or leased the vehicle.
However, the popularity of DC minivans for rentals indicates a lower total expense for the rental firm when purchase price, maintenance, and re-sale value are all considered. If rental firms could buy, rent, and re-sell Odyssey, Sienna, etc with the low overall cost of DC, we would be able to rent them as easily as the more popular DC.
I will never again buy a used vehicle. I know I get a quality product with a factory warranty when I buy new...Grand Caravan, Odyssey, Sienna or whatever.