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back and am curious about the seat in long periods.
also how is the gas mileage in the v6?
So a certain make/model can have 5 major problems (engine, trans, suspension etc.) and have a better rating than another make/model which had 10 minor problems (burnt out bulb, windshield washers not working etc.)
I believe they just count the number of problems.
http://www.newcartestdrive.com/review-walk.cfm?ReviewID=1210
(Web guy: maybe it's just me but threads are hard to follow here, as responses could be far away from original post. Why not format the discussion like an ouline so a response to a thread is indented immediately below it etc. With a 'show all' command as well.. Just a suggestion and no insult inteneded. A great site nonetheless)
They also said the reason the Hummer did poorly is because so many people are complaining about the gas mileage as a problem.
Don't get me wrong, this is the only complaint I could find after exhaustive research. What a fan-freakin-tascic car. Oh, yeah- just bought 2003 Accord LX.
Thanks in advance re all my silly questions today.
Happy motoring!
I'm in the market for a 03 Accord EX-L 5 Speed Auto, and would like your thoughts on deals in Toronto ON.
Any good dealers?
What's considered a good price (how much should I pay above dealer cost, or below cost in CDN $$$).
Look forward to your posts ...
Thanks in advance - Robert
And without looking, I can't recall if the illumination goes off when the lights go off. I'll have to remember to check that.
As I understand it, the "smarts" in this d-b-w allows it to override the input from your foot under some circumstances, like heavy throttle or very light throttle. I'm not all that familiar with exactly how that works. But I do know that the d-b-w is a major component to the much smoother 5-speed auto in the 2003 V6. It smooths the shifts by automatically backing off on the throttle momentarily at the point of a shift.
Without side airbags, it looks very good with 5/5 stars all-around.
I hope they test one with side curtain airbags to see the difference in side impact head injuries, currently it is slightly worse than a Nissan 350Z without side airbags (698 HIC vs 511 HIC, lower is better). For reference, front impacts register 200-300 HIC for the head in most modern cars, This shows that side head protection still could use some improvement.
Otherwise, with engine running, door switch lights operate together with the main lights.
Accords are manufactured at Marysville, Civics in East Liberty (and Canada). Marysville started out as motorcycle production facility in the late 70s, and Accord production started in 1982.
I don't put too much faith into J. D. Power ratings, especially the initial quality surveys. To top it off, did they actually compare Accords manufactured in Japan versus North America? That would be interesting because only 15% of Accords come from Japan.
WHY no 60/40 split folding rear seat??
I would certainly like to know. Could be engineering thing and provides for a stiffer chassis, but then, TSX has it. Likewise, BMW 3-series or even M5 do not come with split seats (they are optional, with cold weather package).
Given what you say, it sounds like getting head-curtain airbags in an Accord would be a good idea (Withthe 698 HIC impact you mention). Do you agree? Or would shoulder-level side-bags (all that's available with the 4-cylinder models) protect the head enough?
Thanks again--excellent post.
The Lexus ES 300 has a side-impact "HIC" of only 115, versus a high 698 for the Accord EX. (many fewer gs in other measurements too). Since this Lexus ES 300 is an upscale Camry, could those results be applied to the Camry? (Note that the ES300 had side airbags and the Accord didn't).
Still curious about views regarding whether this data indicates that you need the head-curtain bag on the Accord.
Thanks.
FiloD
If you havent heard me rant yet about the new testing that IIHS is doing, here's a quick snapshot- the only vehicles passing the new, demanding side impact test (which replicates the tested vehicle being struck, T-bone, by a 3500 lb. SUV) are those with side airbags offering head protection; meaning curtains with chest bags, or chest bags that offer head protection (ex- Hyundais and some Nissans).
Having said that, a chest bag only is probably better than nothing. You should also know that NHTSA just recently announced they are considering changing the testing for side impacts (I feel the showing the HIC number is an interim "patch" to an ailing program).
I dont know if that helped, but thats my opinion, and feel free to email me- I could talk for hours about this topic.
~alpha
Thanks to all for your posts on the Accord. It's a nice car also and either would have been fine for me. Anyone looking for a sporty sedan should check out the GP, it's come a long way from the previous generation.
Unfortunately, one CAN'T get the side curtain air bags unless they also purchase a bigger engine (V6), an automatic trasmission, AND the EX trim.
That's a pretty high price to get curtain airbags.
-Craig
~alpha
The side impact results for the Lexus ES300 and Camry do not make much sense, the Lexus gets much better results than the camry it's based on. The camry got around a 3 star rating.
I'm interested in the head curtain airbags for the accord, but am not willing to pay almost $5,000 extra for just that feature I want (everything else is not worth the cost for me)
As for the exact data for the crash tests, go to www.nhtsa.gov, select crash tests, and then cars, then medium 2003 model year, click on the accord 2dr link and you'll get a page with exact data behind the star ratings. Click on the table headers and you'll get a description of what HIC means and how it relates to probability of a serious injury (not a linear relationship).
fyi...
according to honda specs on their website....only the v6 equipped accords have the electronic throttle...
5 Stars: Accord without Curtain Airbag (with curtain airbag, I doubt it will do worse)
4 Stars: Passat & Avalon with Curtain Airbag
3 Stars: Altima & Camry without Curtain Airbag
That should say everything about Structural integrity and occupant protection (even without curtain airbag) of the cars.
How can you claim that the listing you show is indicative of the structural integrity of the Passat and Avalon, if they both use airbags, which understandably can make up for a theoretically weaker structure? Also, the Avalon does not use a curtain airbag, only a thoracic bag.
Finally, I do find the ES300 and Camry results interesting. Why would the Camry receive 5 stars for rear passenger, but the Lexus 4????
I think the IIHS side impact testing will be a better measure, I'm anxious for the measures of safety and results to go public!
~alpha
True. But those are the only numbers we can go by for now. There have been a total of ten tests combined on the Accord (frontal tests for sedan and coupe with and without side airbags; Side tests with only the coupe without curtain/side airbags), and so far not a single star is missing. So, I wouldn't bet against Accord sedan getting 5-stars as well.
I would argue that the Altima and Camry are very structurally rigid- the NHTSA test seems to be one of how directly the manufacturer can align its side impact beams with the NHTSA barrier.
Picture of Altima and picture of Camry being tested for the side crash. I don't see how a different alignment of side impact beam would help retain the structural integrity of cabin. And if it did, why would some automakers ignore the fact of getting good results?
And Altima has the following ratings so far: Front-Driver (4), Front-Passenger (4), Front-Side (3), Rear- Side (4) and rollover potential (4). Nothing to me suggests a very rigid structure, but that the structural rigidity is about average.
How can you claim that the listing you show is indicative of the structural integrity of the Passat and Avalon, if they both use airbags, which understandably can make up for a theoretically weaker structure? Also, the Avalon does not use a curtain airbag, only a thoracic bag.
I may be wrong on Avalon. As for making up for weaker structure, why do you think they got rated with four stars? Why wouldn't you expect five stars for Passat with curtain and side airbags? What do you think is wrong?
Finally, I do find the ES300 and Camry results interesting. Why would the Camry receive 5 stars for rear passenger, but the Lexus 4????
Probably the Lexus missed the fifth star by a small margin, or the Camry made it into the fifth star by a small margin. If it were 5 versus 3, then we would have an issue as is the case between the two in front-side ratings. Here, curtain airbags may have helped improve the rating on the Lexus to five stars by reducing the chance of injuries and the extent of.
I think the IIHS side impact testing will be a better measure, I'm anxious for the measures of safety and results to go public!
Speaking of IIHS ratings, so far they have published only the offset frontal collision and Accord is not only the best pick, it has the best rating in all areas (structure/safety cage, Injury measures and Restraints/Kinematics).
The concern is: yes, I'm convinced the Accord chassis is remarkable, and will keep its structural integrity if it gets hit in the side (better than other cars of its type). But....that's small consolation if (during this collision) your head gets thrown at the side beam with intense force. The car may keep its integrity, but your skull might not. So you'd be better off if the head was thrown into a big pillow (airbag) than into a steel beam, right? So that's why it's a concern; whether the stronger Honda frame outweighs the lack of the bag is the question.
However, with regard to your statment about the Altima, the stars are based on injury measures. Yes, structure plays a part in that, BUT the NHTSA frontal test is more demanding of the restraint system, while the IIHS offset test is far more demanding on a vehicles' structure, as the crash is highly concentrated on the driver's side. In that measure, the IIHS judged the Altima "Good", the highest rating, exactly the same as the Accord received.
Perhaps I have belabored my point, so I apologize. I am not arguing that the Accord does not have an outstanding structure. I just think its very hard to judge, based on injury measures, the solidity of a vehicles entire structure, especially if NHTSA does not include a "Structure" evaluation as does IIHS. (There were plenty of cars around 1995 that received the goverment's 5 star rating, but bombed the IIHS test- and some, that only scored 3 stars in the government's test, did very well in IIHS).
I agree wholeheartedly with brozhnik's statements with regard to curtain airbags. As for my preference, I'd prefer a vehicle which has a strong structure and offers head protection. Since you have to spend 26K to get that in an Accord, I think the Camry and Altima are still good alternatives, given that, with lower end models, you still have the OPTION of leveling the playing field, should you get struck by an SUV.
~alpha
CON: The 2004 in September will cost me more. Anybody know how much more?
PRO: (1) They may have head-curtain airbags available on 4-cylinder models next year. (2) I want a white one, and maybe they’ll improve (by my tastes) the interior color that goes with it. (3) Maybe certain first-year glitches will be fixed or at least better.
What do you think? Do these make sense? Any other thoughts I should consider? Any input appreciated.
The 2004 probably will not have side curtain airbags on 4 cylinders. Where did you see Honda announcing that it would be available on 2004s? More likely 2006, if ever.
I agree that it is silly getting worked up over availability of side airbags. There are many manufactures with attractive models which include side airbags.
I have not done the calculations, but I don't think the monthly cost is that much greater on an Accord model which includes the airbags as opposed to one without.
There is no rule where the manufacturer HAS to give any and every option on all models. They can decide to have an ALL or nothing option. Either the car as no options (no power windows no air, no nothing) or everything (everything). If they loose business because of this, which I suspect they would, then they'll change their policies.
The best way to get what you want is to find a manufacturer that you trust (there has to be more than 1, i.e. Honda) and spec out the model. If manufacturer doesn't have what you want, make them hurt (buy from a different manufacturer), and wait till the next model comes out.
.02c (off on a tangent)
Now, every time I see a new Accord vis-à-vis a previous generation Accord I smile approvingly. The exterior styling has grown on me but the interior (especially the leather stitching) still lacks the sophistication expected at this price point.
Grudgingly, I have to join the bandwagon and now admit that the new Accord’s styling is better than the previous generation.
For the 2003, it will take like 5 years before there will be a drastic change in design, but yearly there might be some additions, revisions on lights, etc.
If you are not in a hurry, you can wait for the 2004 models (usually August or September not sure) - just to satisfy your curiosity.
I am one of those who think that I should wait for the second year of a new model, and that is 2004. But since my car was starting to give some of problems and got a good price for the Accord, good trade in for my old car and decent Honda financing, I just got myself (actually it is the wife's car) a new 03 Accord V6 (negating my plan of waiting for the 2004 models). I am happy with my decision so far. Since I know there will be changes every year, my set of thinking is prepared for it and I do not think it will bother me if my 03 is different from 04.
03 Remote Key
Anyone bought an extra key with the remote already? Any place you can get one at a cheaper price? How about the programming, is it easy? Thanks.
2. The Accord without curtain airbags has a lower chance of injury in nearly every category compared to a Passat which does have curtain airbags.
3. If it's that big of a deal then glue a pillow to the side of your head. That'll protect you.