such as from service, warranty work, selling lower-volume, higher-markup vehicles. And who knows what else. I'm not worried about dealerships going out of business.
When I bought my Mazda6 recently (check it out if you're shopping for an accord), the "special" financing guy sat me down in his office and went through tons of extra stuff that I don't need, but I'm sure they make a hefty profit from, such as extended warranty, rust-proofing, finance deals with the local bank, anti-theft etching...and some others I can't remember right now. It took about half an hour for me to say no to all of them. If I wanted them all, it could've easily been another $4000 on a $20,000 car.
Hondas are also selling at a premium in this economic environment. 2.9% percent financing as an incentive? Try 0-1% for most other make's models in the same class. But I guess as long as the consumers still keep buying them up even with the premium price, Honda can keep rolling in in the profits.
the most bullet proof accords are probably the ones made in japan. without looking at the PIN number or window sticker i can usually tell where it's assembled by observing the assembly quality. jd powers latest initial quality survey has japan made accords with fewer problems.
unfortunately all v6 accords are made in ohio. but i'm having good luck with my accord. just give the car a good look over if you get to that point.
funny how the salesman said it's difficult to get a accord at invoice because it's pretty common. definitely so with the 03's.
In the eight years I've been selling Hondas, I have NEVER been able to tell the SLIGHTEST difference in quality between U.S. built and Japanese Hondas.
what part of my post is rumor. agree or disagree with jp powers, their analysis clearly states that japan accords are more problematic. not rumor.
if you're ever in madison look me up and i'll point out what to look for. i have a noble green accord ex v6 and it took three of them before one was to my standards. it would of most likely been one try for a japan assembled accord i4.
same with the tsx, almost all have excellent assembly quality.
My opinion is that Honda does closer to real world pricing and thus provides a good value without getting into the never ending incentives game. I've owned a number of Honda's over time as well as many domestic brands. I've owned a couple of Chrysler Town and Country vans that came with big rebates & low financing which resulted in them ending up close to where an Ody is at MSRP + 3 years into it we all know where the resale values end up being. I've got a 98 Expedition that has absolutely taken a beating on resale due to all of the incentives, lease returns, etc.that Fords used to sell them. I read a quote from the head of Ford NA division and he said he sees them weaning people off of the huge incentives but it's hard to picture how. You see new Expeditions advertised for $10,000 off so that's what people have come to expect. Bottomline is I think Honda and Acura have done a good job of providing a good value product that maintain strong resale values. I recently traded off a 7 month old Si on an Accord. The Si had held on to over 90% of the purchase price - something that few other cars would have done or allowed me to even have considered so early in life of the car. My two cents.
On Monday I went to the local Honda dealership and they're willing to sell me a 2003 Honda Accord LX (4 cylinder and automatic transmission) for $17995. This is something like $8 below invoice. I think this is a very fair deal.
I liked everything about the car except the manual seat. I've read a lot about the car and one of the features which drew me to the Accord is the rave reviews I've read about the seat. Unfortunately, I'll have to buy the 6 cylinder Accord LX to have the eight way power seat.
My question to you folks is, if you have experience with both seats, is the 8 way power seat that much better than the manual seat? Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to look at a model with the power seat while I was at the dealership. BTW, I'm just over 6'2" and weigh 190 lbs.
I'm also wondering if the dash lights can be dimmed. I seem to remember some discussion somewhere in which people said the dash lights were too bright at night. Does the car have a dimmer switch? Also, I believe the radio antennae is layered into the glass of the rear window. I live just at the edge of reception of most radio stations and am wondering if the Accord's antennae is as effective as a standard antennae.
The dealership I visited had Accords made in Mexico (didn't know Honda did that...) and Ohio. I didn't see any Japanese made Accords on the lot in the color I wanted (white w/ivory interior). Any info on American versus Mexican made Accords?
The power seat is available on the 4cyl EX (leather). I have the EXL and have found the power seat (plus the other creature comforts of the EXL) totally worth the incremental cost.
On the EXL, and I'd assume LX, the dash lights can definitely be dimmed, if not turned off completely.
As for the antenna, I've found this radio's reception outpeforms the radios I've played with in countless rental cars.
I'm 6'6' and the cloth seats didn't do it for me. I too think the extras were worth it.
JD Power did release a statement that the Japanese built Accords are a little lower initial quality that U.S. ones. BUT U.S. built Civics beat Japanese built ones. So who knows.
As far as the recall...That's pretty minor. Not like a wheel falling off or an engine fire. Also it's for the CR-V. Not the Accord.
Also with a little GEE on the way, we are looking to replace the coupe with a 4 door. There's a Japanese built Silver EX-L NAV 5-speed at a dealership near us. We are contemplating it. Born-on-date of 12/02. We'll see.
Any feedback on the Nav System in the 2003 Accord? I'm looking to buy a new car, and I'm leaning toward either a 2003 or 2004 (when available?) Accord, V-6 EX w/ leather and Nav System.
Does the display also show radio/CD information when not in Nav Mode?
I'm currently looking at the Accord or the Mazda 6. Test drives on both won't take place for another 3-4 weeks as I'm currently overseas.
that's not such a contradiction. i wasn't implying that japan accords are better because they're built by the japanese people. maybe the assembly plant in japan is more modern or has better quality control.
for those of you who have ohio made accords, look at the bottom of the rear bumper and you'll see two tape marks (one on each side). while you're down there also check the bottom of the gas tank and you'll see overspray on it.
there are no tape marks or overspray with the japan made accords. not saying this is a quality issue but illustrates that the cars are not made in the same exact way.
My local dealer, Penske Honda wants $130 for the scheduled 15K service. This seems really high. What do you all think?
Should I go in and insist they only do what the manual specifies? It is a lease car so I want to do what needs to be done but am skeptical about doing extra stuff.
Interesting commentary on the "true cost", but I would really like to know the published invoice cost on the 2004 Accords. I'm not against the dealer making money - God Bless America. But I need the numbers to see how much money I'm giving to the dealer with a benchmark. The Honda site only has the MSRP for the new 2004 Accords.
Gotta agree with the others... if you like the I4 Engine, get the EX-L... I believe in '04 they are available with the curtain airbags, and other than that the only difference between the V6 EX and EX-L should be the engine, traction control, and passenger power seat. You will still get the dual zone air conditioning(great for the S/O), heated leather seats, trim, etc. Probably an '03 can be had for about 22k or so, much better than the 25 or so for the V6 if you don't need the power.
Are you sure the Accord needs a service at 15k? My 01 Civic call for them at 20k intervals (not including oil changes). 15k use to be the old standard. One dealer was trying to talk me into a 15k when I asked that they check the owners manual - they stopped that discussion immediately.
The recommended maintenance interval for 2003 I-4 Accords is every 10,000 miles for normal driving. 2003 V-6 Accords are still on the 7,500 mile interval for normal driving.
Interesting. I never would have known that the V-6 required it more often if it wasn't for this forum. This will make a difference when I'm selecting an Accord. I want a 6, but don't think I can justify the additional cost (purchase, gas, maintenance).
The dealer 15K service pack for my Lexus is $330. I bet I get a better quality oil filter :-) They do give you a loaner car, detail your car, and some good chocolate candy when you pay the bill.
hello, iam in the market for a new car, and my budget is around 18,000-19,000 and i have checked a few cars out such as a hundai elantra gt VW golf, although vw reliability has me concerned a bit. do you think for someone who is on a budget to get a honda accord DX stripped for about 15,000.00 i figure its a good way for someone who cant afford to spend 20,000.00 plus to get into an accord and still have a pretty descent equiped car like ABS brakes, cd stereo, power windows, double wishbone suspension, and that great honda reliability or should i get a honda civic lx for a little more money? is the accord that much better for me to sacrifice some creature comforts so i can get into a accord for about 15000.00 for the dx model with no ac and 5sp manual trans.
I scheduled mine for 3750 since I drive a lot of short trips during the week. But since my service was scheduled 2 weeks out, I actually got there with 4500. Dealer said that was ok cause there are additives in the oil for break in and the extra miles don't hurt it.
today to look at the EX-V6. still plenty left in all colors at the dealer i am seeing. i still think i like the gold/beige combo the best. though black/beige is nice too..
Many years ago, I did the exact thing you're talking about. I bought my first Accord, which was an '88 DX, to replace my '85 VW Jetta. The Jetta drove great but was not as well made as the Honda turned out to be. I know a lot has changed since then, but I would still prefer the Accord, even a DX, over the VW. The resale value alone will make it worth it, and you can always add AC and stuff later. BTW I sold my 88 to a relative and it's still running great with over 140,000 miles on it.
Personally, I would prefer the Accord over the Civic. My second choice would be a used Accord LX or EX, and then maybe a Civic. Good luck.
11652 is clearly a reply to 11651 whose author was debating the merits of 4 vs 6 CYLINDERS in an ACCORD. The Mazda6 was not at all what was meant, so let's leave it at that!
Gee is so excited about being a father to be, he must be only half paying attention.
can anyone tell me if the accord dx has the same suspension set up as the other model accords refering to the double-wishbone set up. i heard that they dont which is why the dx model accords ride much more stiffer than the other models. any help here would be appreciated. thanx
if you budget is 18-19k why don't you get the LX? Those can be had for probably about invoice, which would fall into that range. I would guess 17-18k or so. That 2k maybe worth it for the Remote entry, A/C, and door locks. I suppose if you don't need the A/C then it wouldn't be too bad, but A/C comes in handy in cold and hot weather....
I don't know about the suspension, but the DX does not have a rear stablilizer bar... I doubt that honda will do that because that is a redesign of the body. have you driven a DX vs an LX yet? best way would be to see for yourself.
Is the Accord DX really more than the Civic LX? I was not aware of that. In any event the Accord would probably be the more satisfying car for a number of reasons but it being a DX model makes it sort of a mixed bag. The Accord has a lot more room and comfort than the Civic and has a bigger trunk(but no split folding rear seat just a fixed one), the Accord's 2.4 liter engine has much more power and torque than the Civic's 1.7. The Accord's larger size will give you a safety advantage, plus ABS is not available in the Civic LX even as an option. ABS does come standard on the Civic EX though. I'm not sure if you would be able to endure life without A/C in your car. If you can get it as a factory option on a DX they go for it. Dealer installed A/C systems however are probably not as good and I would avoid them. Another thing is cruise control. While I don't use it often it does come in handy on very long trips. I don't think the Accord DX has it. And like dealer installed A/C systems I would also avoid dealer installed cruise control systems too. How much more is an Accord LX? The LX has pretty much every feature you could want in a car minus a moonroof. If its too much could you wait a few more months? It may be worth it. Or if a smaller car is okay with you then the Civic EX may be a good choice for its great list of features and standard ABS brakes. Take long test drives in both cars just to be sure.
My wife and I have had the V6 Nav for about a month now. 1800 miles on the car (had 340 when we picked it up) We have the Redondo red with the Gold kit, Full wing and Gold pinstriping. A mighty fine looking ride if I do say so. But the Nav is the cherry on top of the goodies. I cannot tell you how much fun it has been. Not only fun but invaluable in finding places we needed to go. I was very, very surprised to see my wife messing with it constantly. She even has me do the "go home" mode everyday from work. We do know the route but she loves listening to "Ethel" as we have dubbed the female voice. There is so much more to the voice system than is advertised. I urge you to go to the dealer and try one on for size. Have him demo one for you. We looked at Infiniti's, Avalons, Lincoln LS' and ntohing could come close for teh money. we are very happy and I am thrilled with the Nav system!
I'm paraphrasing here... For proper break-in, do not perform the first oil change until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance shedule.
These are: i4, normal conditions - 10k or 12mo i4, severe conditions - 5k or 6mo v6, normal conditions - 7.5k or 12mo v6, severe conditions - 3.75k or 6mo
Since I have an i4, and do "normal" driving, I'm waiting until I reach 10k.
It depends what type of driving you mainly do. If you have a manual trans and shift a lot in stop and go city driving, the oil change interval will be sooner (3 to 4 K). The changes of revs in engine is breaking in and the microscopic shavings in the cylinders and pistons are ground off and collected in the oil filter and in the oil itself while seating the rings into shape/place. This is slightly different in smooth acceleration under an automatic at constant speed (6K change). That is why some owners manuals tell drivers to vary their speeds "to better shape the pistons rings to the cylinder walls". That's what several mechanics and autoshop instructors have stated to me in the past. Does it sound logical???
Totally logical. Only thing I see is Honda doesn't trust you to properly breakin a new engine so they do 80% of it for you on the engine stand before the engine is installed in the car. That also improves quality since they find a bad engine before it finds its way into a car. The breakin period is more for the transmission and differential.
Just got my first recall notice. There are 2 problems:
(1) Transmission problem: shift the transmission between forward and reverse for several times at wheel speed above 12mph, reverse stops working. This can happen when you stuck in snow.
(2) Intake air breather pipe: Weak hose clamp can cause separation of the hose from the engine which in turn can cause engine damage, reduce fuel economy. For CA vehicles, it can cause malfunction indicator lamp to stay on.
I do not believe this is the last recall. I am still waiting the recall for warping rotors. BTW, my Accord's VIN starts with a J and is assumed to be made in Japan.
I wonder is it a software issue on the reverse thing and as far as the clamp, thats really no big deal. R@D should have caught that one though. I wonder under what circumstances does the engine shift enough to cause that.
The J does indicate Japanese built.
Guilty as charged Pat. I have so many thoughts going on right now my head is about to explode. I deleted that stupid post (thank God for delete).
Haven't showed the wife how to change the voice to a mans voice hehehe. Whoever did the female voice sure sounds good to me! I love confusing her by choosing an alternative route!! Honestly, I thought I bought a $2k toy and found it useful beyond words. I really like the V6 as well. After my Intrigue, this one is a winner!
I currently have a 98 Intrigue. Recently I have hit a moon crater pothole which knocked my allignment off so badly that even a regular allignmet can't fix it. All the of the adjustable components in the suspension can not be ajusted any further to compensate for the -0.2 camber degrees she is off on both driver side wheels. She also has a slightly bent rim-- which does not leak-- thank goodness. The damage is barely noticeable when driving, so I do not plan on putting any $$ to fix this six year old car with 108k miles... unless she fails inspection. I digress...
What are those things which you like better on the Accord than the Intrigue? Which are those things you liked better on the Intrigue than the Accord? I'd prefer this information from an unbiased person who has had much driving experience behind the wheel of both cars. Any insight would be helpful-- thank you
went and test drove another 03 Accord EX-V6 last night. nice car, however, even with the seat lowered all the way, i couldn't adjust the rear-view mirror high enough that i didn't need to scrunch down a little to get the view i like. then i realized, it looks like the mirror was glued on the the windshied itself too low.
is that easy to remove and re-stick in a higher position?
got the car up to 80mph. no signs of stopping or being "tired" or "wheezy". some noise, but nothing awful. i don't see a dimmer switch for the dash board - is there one?
the one sort of unsafe thing to me is that since the guages are lit up even during the day, i fear i would forget to turn my lights on. in regular cars, you turn your lights on because you can't see the speedo without them on.
Comments
When I bought my Mazda6 recently (check it out if you're shopping for an accord), the "special" financing guy sat me down in his office and went through tons of extra stuff that I don't need, but I'm sure they make a hefty profit from, such as extended warranty, rust-proofing, finance deals with the local bank, anti-theft etching...and some others I can't remember right now. It took about half an hour for me to say no to all of them. If I wanted them all, it could've easily been another $4000 on a $20,000 car.
Hondas are also selling at a premium in this economic environment. 2.9% percent financing as an incentive? Try 0-1% for most other make's models in the same class. But I guess as long as the consumers still keep buying them up even with the premium price, Honda can keep rolling in in the profits.
unfortunately all v6 accords are made in ohio. but i'm having good luck with my accord. just give the car a good look over if you get to that point.
funny how the salesman said it's difficult to get a accord at invoice because it's pretty common. definitely so with the 03's.
But, the rumor persists....
if you're ever in madison look me up and i'll point out what to look for. i have a noble green accord ex v6 and it took three of them before one was to my standards. it would of most likely been one try for a japan assembled accord i4.
same with the tsx, almost all have excellent assembly quality.
On Monday I went to the local Honda dealership and they're willing to sell me a 2003 Honda Accord LX (4 cylinder and automatic transmission) for $17995. This is something like $8 below invoice. I think this is a very fair deal.
I liked everything about the car except the manual seat. I've read a lot about the car and one of the features which drew me to the Accord is the rave reviews I've read about the seat. Unfortunately, I'll have to buy the 6 cylinder Accord LX to have the eight way power seat.
My question to you folks is, if you have experience with both seats, is the 8 way power seat that much better than the manual seat? Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to look at a model with the power seat while I was at the dealership. BTW, I'm just over 6'2" and weigh 190 lbs.
I'm also wondering if the dash lights can be dimmed. I seem to remember some discussion somewhere in which people said the dash lights were too bright at night. Does the car have a dimmer switch? Also, I believe the radio antennae is layered into the glass of the rear window. I live just at the edge of reception of most radio stations and am wondering if the Accord's antennae is as effective as a standard antennae.
The dealership I visited had Accords made in Mexico (didn't know Honda did that...) and Ohio. I didn't see any Japanese made Accords on the lot in the color I wanted (white w/ivory interior). Any info on American versus Mexican made Accords?
Thanks in advance.
h0udini
On the EXL, and I'd assume LX, the dash lights can definitely be dimmed, if not turned off completely.
As for the antenna, I've found this radio's reception outpeforms the radios I've played with in countless rental cars.
JD Power did release a statement that the Japanese built Accords are a little lower initial quality that U.S. ones. BUT U.S. built Civics beat Japanese built ones. So who knows.
As far as the recall...That's pretty minor. Not like a wheel falling off or an engine fire. Also it's for the CR-V. Not the Accord.
Also with a little GEE on the way, we are looking to replace the coupe with a 4 door. There's a Japanese built Silver EX-L NAV 5-speed at a dealership near us. We are contemplating it. Born-on-date of 12/02. We'll see.
Does the display also show radio/CD information when not in Nav Mode?
I'm currently looking at the Accord or the Mazda 6. Test drives on both won't take place for another 3-4 weeks as I'm currently overseas.
Thanks
if i remember right, jd power said there was a slight difference between us and japanese built accords...and that japanese accords faired better.
however, it was the opposite for civics...
for those of you who have ohio made accords, look at the bottom of the rear bumper and you'll see two tape marks (one on each side). while you're down there also check the bottom of the gas tank and you'll see overspray on it.
there are no tape marks or overspray with the japan made accords. not saying this is a quality issue but illustrates that the cars are not made in the same exact way.
Should I go in and insist they only do what the manual specifies? It is a lease car so I want to do what needs to be done but am skeptical about doing extra stuff.
Yes, you can see the radio/CD settings when in map mode.
Sooooo glad I have it.
Dealers in SF Bay Area charge $190.
It's a ripoff, but cheap insutrance come warranty time.
my budget is around 18,000-19,000 and i have checked a few cars out such as a hundai elantra gt VW golf, although vw reliability
has me concerned a bit. do you think for someone who is on a budget to get a honda accord DX stripped for about 15,000.00
i figure its a good way for someone who cant afford to spend 20,000.00 plus to get into an accord and still have a pretty descent equiped car like ABS brakes, cd stereo, power windows, double wishbone suspension, and that great honda reliability or should i get a honda civic lx for a little more money? is the accord that much better for me to sacrifice some creature comforts so i can get into a accord for about 15000.00 for the dx model with no ac and 5sp manual trans.
I have been reading mixed recommendations when to have the first oil changed -
3,750 miles
7,500 miles and some even suggested $10K! Any suggestions will be much appreciated as I have just reached my first $3K. Thanks.
personally i think honda is just asking for sludge problems by recommending 10k intervals...;)
clarify?
Many years ago, I did the exact thing you're talking about. I bought my first Accord, which was an '88 DX, to replace my '85 VW Jetta. The Jetta drove great but was not as well made as the Honda turned out to be. I know a lot has changed since then, but I would still prefer the Accord, even a DX, over the VW. The resale value alone will make it worth it, and you can always add AC and stuff later. BTW I sold my 88 to a relative and it's still running great with over 140,000 miles on it.
Personally, I would prefer the Accord over the Civic. My second choice would be a used Accord LX or EX, and then maybe a Civic. Good luck.
One more question for anybody:
On the Nav System, how many discs (are they DVD?) are needed for the United States?
Does it come with only your region, or are all regions of the USA on 1 disc (DVD?)?
Gee is so excited about being a father to be, he must be only half paying attention.
: )
same suspension set up as the other model accords refering to the double-wishbone set up. i heard that they dont which is why the dx model accords ride much more stiffer than the other models. any help here would be appreciated. thanx
The Accord has a lot more room and comfort than the Civic and has a bigger trunk(but no split folding rear seat just a fixed one), the Accord's 2.4 liter engine has much more power and torque than the Civic's 1.7. The Accord's larger size will give you a safety advantage, plus ABS is not available in the Civic LX even as an option. ABS does come standard on the Civic EX though.
I'm not sure if you would be able to endure life without A/C in your car. If you can get it as a factory option on a DX they go for it. Dealer installed A/C systems however are probably not as good and I would avoid them.
Another thing is cruise control. While I don't use it often it does come in handy on very long trips. I don't think the Accord DX has it. And like dealer installed A/C systems I would also avoid dealer installed cruise control systems too.
How much more is an Accord LX? The LX has pretty much every feature you could want in a car minus a moonroof. If its too much could you wait a few more months? It may be worth it. Or if a smaller car is okay with you then the Civic EX may be a good choice for its great list of features and standard ABS brakes. Take long test drives in both cars just to be sure.
Cheers, Kenn
For proper break-in, do not perform the first oil change until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance shedule.
These are:
i4, normal conditions - 10k or 12mo
i4, severe conditions - 5k or 6mo
v6, normal conditions - 7.5k or 12mo
v6, severe conditions - 3.75k or 6mo
Since I have an i4, and do "normal" driving, I'm waiting until I reach 10k.
Some may disagree, but that's what Honda sez.
Regards, Bob
(1) Transmission problem: shift the transmission between forward and reverse for several times at wheel speed above 12mph, reverse stops working. This can happen when you stuck in snow.
(2) Intake air breather pipe: Weak hose clamp can cause separation of the hose from the engine which in turn can cause engine damage, reduce fuel economy. For CA vehicles, it can cause malfunction indicator lamp to stay on.
I do not believe this is the last recall. I am still waiting the recall for warping rotors. BTW, my Accord's VIN starts with a J and is assumed to be made in Japan.
Isn't that trick reserved solely for use in rental cars!!??
The J does indicate Japanese built.
Guilty as charged Pat. I have so many thoughts going on right now my head is about to explode. I deleted that stupid post (thank God for delete).
Cheers, from Texas!
I currently have a 98 Intrigue. Recently I have hit a moon crater pothole which knocked my allignment off so badly that even a regular allignmet can't fix it. All the of the adjustable components in the suspension can not be ajusted any further to compensate for the -0.2 camber degrees she is off on both driver side wheels. She also has a slightly bent rim-- which does not leak-- thank goodness. The damage is barely noticeable when driving, so I do not plan on putting any $$ to fix this six year old car with 108k miles... unless she fails inspection. I digress...
What are those things which you like better on the Accord than the Intrigue? Which are those things you liked better on the Intrigue than the Accord? I'd prefer this information from an unbiased person who has had much driving experience behind the wheel of both cars. Any insight would be helpful-- thank you
is that easy to remove and re-stick in a higher position?
got the car up to 80mph. no signs of stopping or being "tired" or "wheezy". some noise, but nothing awful. i don't see a dimmer switch for the dash board - is there one?
the one sort of unsafe thing to me is that since the guages are lit up even during the day, i fear i would forget to turn my lights on. in regular cars, you turn your lights on because you can't see the speedo without them on.
anyone had that happen yet?