I have a unique situation. I have been "lurking" on this board for many hours as I recently purchased a new 04 Lexus ES330 and although I love the way it drives, I may have overbought. The payment of 364 is a bit steep as I am not rich. i had a good down as I owned my trade.
Main problem is the high payments and the fact the dealer is over 80 miles away and i would have to take off work to go there. Seeing as their high level of service is what part of what i paid for I wonder why I did this )) Plus, I HATE going to Boston where driving is no fun at all.
So, I am looking at a lease of an 04 EX V6 pretty loaded but no NAV for a lease of $270 3 years 12000 miles. Plus, I would get somewhere over $8000 dollars back cash to play with
I wish I had bought the Honda first as it suits my needs and I like it for all the reasons mentioned on this board, safety, reliability, good seats, COOL dashboard, and XM radio. Plus, the dealer is closer. I even happen to really like the way it looks.
So, the only thing stopping me is the great smooth ride of the es330 I guess. Oh yeah, it really is quiet too, which I love. The Accord is somewhat quiet by comparison, but not as quiet.
My question is, has anyone ever been in a similiar situation?
Any ways, GREAT board, I look forward to sharing my experiences should I go the Honda route. I want to make a decision before my next payment!
...seem to go together, don't they ? After all, Accords and other Hondas are beneficiaries of that maker's racing trickle-down.
What should give us pause is when "...on public roads" is added to the subject line.
At 90 or 100 mph, is there a chance that something outside the driver's control might intervene, like a road object, a semi-alert driver drifting lanes, deer, etc. ?
You know the answer to that one. Could any amount of excuse soften the hurt of an injured or killed person ? Answer's obvious.
The responsible reality is, we can enjoy the thought of having the best tires on a capable car driven by the keenest driver. To act on that thought, the place is the track and not public roads.
Lighten up. Nobody is talking about going 100+mph on a busy interstate. We are talking about going fast on a deserted straight as an arrow highway like they have in Montana, Idaho, Utah etc. A responsible, expert driver can drive his/her car at the limits without sacrificing safety or jepordizing anybody's life. If the Germans and the Italians can go at triple digit speeds why can't we?
...I sure can. But if I do, it could mean one more "Your honor, I couldn't avoid the tire carcass" accident. This public forum has the power to shape thoughts, ideas and actions whether we like it or not - hence the serious tone.
Motoring to the Germans and Italians is a passion to the majority; in the US, it's a necessity. That to me impacts the safety issue.
My last post on this subject before I get the host's buzzer.
I agree with Atlantabenny. There aren't many open areas on interstates around Atlanta where anything over 80 could be justified... then there always are the tire failures. Those tire carcasses on the road didn't come from perfect Michelins driven at 55...
and Florida. I 16 and 20 are deserted all day past Conyers and 16 has never had any traffic. They are both straight as an arrow. There are no dreaded corners for the tire carcass excuse. If you can't see the dreaded tire carcass coming on I-16, you shouldn't be driving at any speed.
On these interstates you can drive for 10 miles before you see another car some days. We buy the same tires and cars Germans have access to. If they were THAT dangerous we would have heard something by now. The biggest danger in Germany is inattention and inconsideration. Both are illegal in Germany.
Scenario: You are cruising down the rural interstate during the daylight hours. Rolling about 110. As you overtake a slower car you break the cruise, slow to approach speed, move over and pass, hit resume, and continue. Where's the danger? Heck if I were in a Benz with Distronic all the braking and throttle would be done automatically by the car.
You can fly on GA freeways-16 didn't have any traffic when I lived down there. Now in WI and let me assure you the density of speed traps is such that there are very few places where you can really get on it. Radar detectors are not very helpful either as most of these guys are back shooters and have a fast on and off. It is the revenue game up here for these birds.
I could care less if you pass me. Just don't kill me. The whole idea that I don't have the "guts to keep up" is ridiculous. I'm just not as immature and foolish as you. Try and rationalize it however you want - those of you who are endorsing excessive speeding, even bragging about it, are clearly ignorant and no amount of common sense will convince you that your behavior is just plain dangerous.
I go out, do the research and buy the best car I can for the money. I maintain my car as recommended by the manufacturer to keep it up to operating spec. I'm fully aware of the dangers of inattentive driving. Heck I see it all the time when idiots doing the "speed limit" wreck all around me.
If you don't like the speeding law that I break, how about obeying all of the other laws that rule the road. If YOU are obeying the "keep right" law we shall have no problems. I'll pass you and keep to my own business. But if you don't, you are breaking TWO laws. "Obstruction of flow" and "Keep right except to pass".
As I said in my previous post I'm not talking blowing by someone doing 65 at 110, I have given you the courtesy of slowing, could you just give us ignorant rational folk the courtesy of getting your superior ssa out of the way.
I can sense your anger building. Try not to let your road rage carry over to your computer.
I always pull to the right to let faster traffic pass if it is reasonable to do so. I also travel in the right lane when it is reasonable to do so. I will not, however, decrease my speed significantly just so I can merge in with much slower moving traffic in order to let you pass. If you decide that you absolutely, positively have to pass me and express this by tailgating and flashing your lights, I will then pull over and let you pass because you have indicated that you are a dim wit who has no concern for the safety of yourself or others.
Face it, you are a dangerous, aggressive driver. The type of car you drive is irrelevant as is the amount of research you did before buying it.
Traffic laws are in place for the good of society. I've seen too many accidents caused by speeding by drivers who "know how to drive fast safely." Like the car which hit an abutement for a culvert. Like the Cadillac speeding at 65 on city street hitting a young couple making a left turn in an area where cars normally go 35 and being hit by the Caddy, both dead, Caddy occupants in bad shape but so drunk they weren't worth saving, in my opinion. I've seen the cars rolled into balls in high speed accidents. The worst is all the people hurt and injured by the other "safe but fast" driver. Have you seen the parents who lost a child in an accident?
Darwin does have the theory right about survival of the species and improving the gene pool.
As for the speech about staying out of your left lane, I drive safely at or above the speed limit in the left lane of three lane roads and move over when it's safe for me to do so without too much disruption of my travel speed and forward progress. I don't pay too much attention to the 90 mphers who come up flashing their lights. That's what the other two lanes are for. On two lane interstates I stay out of the left lane most of the time.
Give me a break. Sounds like someone can't argue with reason. Where is the anger? You already said you don't speed. So you have no business in the left lane. If you DO speed you should be passing other cars at a reasonable rate. I have already said that I have slowed to a reasonable speed to pass. I also said that I do it on relatively empty interstate. Why would I have to flash lights?
It's just there is no argument to my scenario above so you have say now that I am an "aggressive driver" or "dangerous". Not once have I said anything about flashing headlights or anything like that. That's the thing about discussions about this. When you point out that it can be done safely the other side comes up with stuff that has no point in the discussion. Your scenario sound like a traffic situation. Not relavant in the context of empty interstate. Only in the mind of the "speed police" drivers.
"Keep right except to pass" is there so slower cars can keep right if there are cars overtaking. If you are in the left hand lane, you should be there to pass. Why would I have any problem with a car passing? But it shouldn't take 3 miles to pass someone should it? I'm sure we can agree on that. Then that becomes "obstruction". If you want to stay in the left hand lane for that long then who is the "dangerous" or "passive aggressive" driver? You actions are just as illegal as you imply that mine are.
If anything, you are the one with the anger. I want to keep my interaction with you limited to the couple seconds it takes for me to pass you. While you are concerned with elongating our "meeting" by policing the roads. Honestly, if you were that concerned with YOUR safety you'd think you would have moved over BEFORE I even got near your car. Cause it might not be me. It may be some idoit that just committed a crime or something. You tick THAT guy off, you might have a lot more than headlights in you rear view.
edit...See what I mean. I'm not talking about speeding on a streets. I'm talking about on open roads. Sure they have speed limits in the city. Sure there are places where you slow down. We all know that. I spent 2 years in Japan where I saw some of the most lurid wrecks in cars made of tissue. Got no problem with speed limits. But the point is that some of them, like many other laws, don't make any sense.
You aren't running into a culvert on an empty interstate in the daytime if you are awake. The doom and gloom only works if you can give a reasonable scenario. Drunk Caddy folks had other issues obviously. Now if you tell me a guy was just driving down the interstate minding his own busines and his car suddenly wrecked due to nothing that the driver did then it would make sense. Tire failure can kill at 35 mph, drivetrain siezure, steering failure, structural disintegration the same. Isn't that why we bought Accords? You buy premium stuff to rule those things out. I mean I certainly hope these $150 tires can survive 100mph.
Sounds more to me like someone can't understand reason. If you re-read my previous post, I said that I do regularly exceed the speed limit by 10 or 15 mph but no more. Your anger is evident by your use of CAPITALS, sarcasm and abusive language.
Where did you come up with the idea that I am "policing the roads". As I said in my last post, I move to the right when it is reasonable to do so. That means when there is no slower moving traffic ahead in that lane for a reasonable distance. (Maybe it is the words 'reason' and 'reasonable' that you are having a problem with.) So any "actions" you are attributing to me in this regard are imaginary.
That's the thing about discussions about this. When you point out... the other side comes up with stuff that has no point in the discussion.
You clearly have some antisocial tendencies if you are driving over 100 mph on a regular basis. The fact that you are doing it on what you perceive as "empty interstate" does not make it safe or justifiable.
I use capitals for emphasis. Don't have bold or italics. The capitalized words are hardly aggressive.` Take it for what you want.
I take my driving very seriously. Never an at fault accident in 20 years of driving. I try to be as courteous as possible. As I said in my scenario, those were the conditions that I would be cruising at high speed. There was no aggression stated or implied. In fact as it was written, it covered any overtaking situation. How can you kill someone by passing? Sounds like exaggeration to me.
Never called anyone ignorant, immature, or foolish (post 13437 sounds kinda like the abusive language starting) or anything. I just provided a scenario of one car travelling faster than another and passing. Just as the roads were designed for. No blinking lights or anything. Two drivers practicing common courtesy on the open road. But of course to counter that you have to imply MY???(ooops) anger building when you injected name calling.
"Dangerous" "aggressive" "anti-social" "road rage" in what way. It's easy to throw those terms out but harder to justify them. Go back to my original scenario and pull any of those out that situation and I'll be impressed.
On the other hand you sullied the discussion calling names. Continued by saying that anyone driving faster than YOU want then to is driving aggressively or beyond his ability. Continuing by saying you may be killed by someone passing? How? As I pointed out before, passing involves mere seconds of interaction between two cars. You have yet to explain how my speeding when alone, slowing when overtaking, and continuing at my speed is endangering YOU. Just a bunch of cliches and name calling so far.
I think Atlantabenny was right though. This is like trying to argue religion. I'm done with it.
#13437 sounds like a good analysis to me. I don't see anything incorrect in your careful analysis.
OTOH "Sounds like someone can't argue with reason. ...mind of the "speed police" drivers..."
"But if you don't, you are breaking TWO laws. "Obstruction of flow" and "Keep right except to pass"." "inattention and inconsideration. Both are illegal in Germany."
Nope, no anger in these responses.
Trying to justify aggressive and dangerous speeds by point fingers at other drivers using left lane for passing at or slightly above posted speed limits and trying to pile on with two laws broken...????
Show me the number of tickets written on interstates for "obstruction" and "failure to keep right" versus the number for speeding and excessive speed for conditions... Which do yo think is more dangerous in the eyes of legislators and police?
This is an Accord forum, let me ask all you "drive 55 arrive alive" people, why do you think the V6 Accord packs 240 Hp? The early 90's Accord had a 125 Hp 4 cylinder engine. Enough to cruise at 55 to 65 mph. Why do Altima and Camry have 245 and 225 Hp respectively? Their 4 cylinder engine is plenty strong aren't they? It is there to nurture our driving enthusiasm. There is a difference between driving fast and driving recklessly. A drunk driver is a dangerous driver even at 55 mph. So is a reckless driver who likes to cut off people. Don't mix up driving enthusiasts with drunk and bad drivers.
understand the logic. Good tires + good heavy car + plus expert driver = okay for excessive speeds 90 - 150.
I was passed on the way to WalMart by an independent trucker. Nice new, spiffy paint job truck, very new looing. His tires cost more than $130. His vehicle has more than claimed 220 horsepower and lots of torque. It weighs a lot. And the driver drives more in a month than most of us drive in a year. He's an expert. He should be able to drive as fast as he wants where he makes the decision on the speed limit.
Okay by me. My choice for great speeds would be CTS with rear wheel drive. Guess I'll have to get my logic straightened up for Monday morning when I go back to the office. But it's okay for me to think this way on weekends. Right?
I am an old guy (58) who very seldon drives over the speed limit, even one at 25 or 30 mph. I am very used to aggressive drivers tailgaiting me, honking their horns, flashing lights, etc. I just ignore them.
On the Washington D.C. beltway, where I drive 55-60 mph, I almost always stay in the right lane. On a nearby 4-lane suburban street with a 45 mph speed limit, I sometimes drive in the left lane because the traffic is less in that lane or because I plan to turn left in a couple miles.
Your method of driving does not irritate me in the least. Do I irritate you? If so, too bad. Tell someone who cares.
The Beltway can be MURDER. I used to have to pass through there about 6 times a month on my way to various areas in Baltimore. You have to catch it at the right times or you'll be stuck forever. I'm surprised you get to go the speed limit there.
I'm talking more I-66 heading to I-81 driving. Or even 81 coming up TN VA and WVA way. 81 has some nice stretches on it.
I've heard it time and time again that the Accord is not a "sports sedan."
Agreed, it's not aimed at that market, but look at it this way: Take a car that was considered a sports sedan 5 years ago. Is that car still a sports sedan? Chances are, this 7th generation Honda Accord can blow its doors off.
"They discuss this speeding stuff in by gee35coupe Jan 18, 2004 (11:55 am) Inconsiderate Drivers. Those who want to continue should meet there."
Then gee wrote: "#13449 of 13450 LOL Bob. You're cool by me. by gee35coupe Jan 18, 2004 (12:11 pm) The Beltway can be MURDER. I used to have to pass through there about 6 times a month on my way to various areas in Baltimore. You have to catch it at the right times or you'll be stuck forever. I'm surprised you get to go the speed limit there.
I'm talking more I-66 heading to I-81 driving. Or even 81 coming up TN VA and WVA way. 81 has some nice stretches on it."
Need to move discussion. They discuss this in Inconsiderate Drivers.
All this OFF TOPIC speed talk has taken this great thread away from the main topic, the Accord. Davebell wrote a nice post about 20 or so posts back. He had a question that asked if he should trade his new 04 Lexus ES 330 for a new loaded V6 Accord. Davebell indicated that he had basically overbought, something I think we all have done at one time or another.
He said by dumping the ES330 he would have an extra $8000 to play with and his payments would be cut by $100 a month. Here is my response: Davebell, you will take a bit of a hit by dumping the new ES330, there is really now way around that fact. Once you drive a new car off a lot, it loses value. But, it looks like the hit will be offset by the difference in price between the two cars. I would dump the ES330 and go with the Accord, because it fits your financial situation much better, and the Accord is a GREAT car. I do no think you will have any regrets, I believe you will be relieved. And, if you get the navigation system in the Accord, I believe you might even like the car better then your Lexus. Good luck.
Along those lines, if you're trying to save $$$$ consider the 4 cyl. Accord EX-L. It's amazing--fast, smooth, great 5 speed AT, cheap to run, and has nearly all the V6's luxury features. Low maintenance costs should be a consideration, too........Richard
Since I have never been in this situation, I was even scared to ask the question. I appreciate your response. Someone mentioned looking at the Accord V4 and I had thought of that but really like the extra power and super low RPM's at highway speeds that the V6 offers. Also, my previous car was an 2000 Avalon and that was the one that got me hooked on V6 power.
The Lexus really is a great car and the more I drive it, the more I like it. However, the income I planned to use to make the payments is not as steady as i had hoped. And, I paid about 34K and change, and I think I can get the Honda dealer up to very close to $30K. Not that bad, really. So, with the kickback from the lease of at least $8000 and the cheaper payments, I would still be driving a great car.
I have read almost every message on the entire accord boards, and many people say how much they love it.
The price they have offered me on the V6 EX with NO nav is $24.995. About $500 over Cars Direct price and even a little below Edmunds TMV price. i will, of course, try to negotiate this further.
If at all possible in your financial situatiaon, GET Navigation! You will not regret it. In fact you will thank yourself you have it. The navigation system on the Accord is voice activated and the best on the market. It is incredible!! And, it will make your Accord so COOOOOOOL!!
You might want to at least give the Accord EX-L 4 cylinder a shot. It's no 240HP V6 but it does get 34 MPG on the highway, is a little lighter on it's feet, has all of the V6 features with the excpetion of traction control, homelink, and a power passenger seat, and will save you an additional $2000 which could go in your pocket or buy you the NAV system. My 4 cylinder Accord cruises 80 MPH right at 3000 RPM.
At least drive the 4 cylinder so you don't have the question in the back of your mind if you should've saved even more money by buying the 4 instead of the V6. Personally, I am not mature enough for the V6 but the 4 cylinder is definitely no slouch.
I have done weeks and weeks of research for my new car, and it is now between the accord and a BMW 325i.
I'm really amazed about how little DETAILED information is available about the accord. The best site so far is epinions.com, there are about 20 reviews there. I'm not talking about the obvious info, like the 240HP, but the DETAILS. For example, it took me a month to find out you can open all the windows with the key.
Can some of you tell me about the little things that you like about the accord? little storage compartments? Nav system special features, nice touches, etc.
This would be for the top of the line model, with Navigation. Thanks!
I'm still discovering all the little things in my Accord after two months. I'm still figuring stuff out. Here are some of the really cool "little things" I like on my V6 EX Navi: fantastic, deep, beverage holders; two power outlets; tilt and telescopic(!)steering wheel; remote built right into the key, no separate remote; power recline on front seats; lots of storage space, including a two-section center console and a separate storage compartment for CDs; neat upper digital time, audio, and temperature display separate from the navi screen; heated seats; steering wheel audio controls (I like to flip a lot, and this definitely helps to keep my eyes on the road); outside temperature display; dual trip odometers; super large seat belts (good for chubbies like me ); dual climate control; and, although not technically "little" things, the navigation and voice activation systems are incredible.
Before you do anything, get Terry's opinion on the worth of your car over at Real World Trade Values on the smart shopper board. Remember to include all the essentials - Where you live, mileage, color and all major options.
Providing you won't take a much larger hit on the trade than you anticipate, the move to an Accord for the reasons you state make sense.
I am lucky in that I actually am "mature" enough for a six. I am just scared to drive fast, but love to feel the power there for when i need to pull out into traffic, or get out of someone's way. The Lexus cruises at 70 ata hair over 2ooo as does the Honda V6.
However, I mays til drive the 4 and truly appriciate your input.
Also, I wonder why everyone sys the NAV is so cool. I only drive in my towns and never need a map. People really seem to like it though. I just never even considered spending any money on it.
In my travels before I bought the OLexus, I tried the SAAB 4 and the AUDI 4, nice, but I was driving my Avalon at the time and realy loved that 6!
I have seen the Navigation system on an Accord, and it is incredible. Once you see one, or use one, you will not want to be without it. Even if you only drive in town, it is really useful. Just plug in an address and it will direct you. Need to find a nice restaurant, it will direct you, etc... Again, it is COOL!! I think you would regret not having NAV; but again, it is your choice. By the way, there is no NAV system can match the Accord or Acura's. They are way ahead of everyone on NAV including BMW. I wish I had NAV in my car, but no such luck. It is one option that I want in my next car.
Yes, in addition to all of its other voice-controlled mapping functions, the Navigation system's computer displays average miles per gallon, average speed, miles 'til empty, etc. It also handles the climate control and audio systems. All great features. I've only learned about 40% of the 180+ voice commands so far.
With the display in the "North up" mode you don't need a separate compass since the red-arrow icon, indicating your current position, points in the direction that you are travelling, the same as a compass arrow. The "Heading up" mode flips the map display for those folks who turn paper maps upside down or sideways.
Your position can be displayed as latitude, longitude and elevation if you choose.
Also, don't sweat the "little things". They are all there, in spades.
Based on your account, and trusting the facts that you have presented are accurate, I think you would be well within your rights to make an appointment with the general sales manager or owner of that dealership and request that you be given the brand new car that came on the lot with your specifications after the salesman either intentionally or mistakenly mislead you about its availability.
You bought a car with relatively high mileage because you believed it would be the only one like it available for several months. I assume you inquired about a dealer trade, or was it a situation where you had to take possession immediately?
In any event, that plus the fact that your car was damaged by the dealer's son, seems to me reasonable grounds to request the switch. Also, as you point out, there is also the inconvenience of driving back and forth to the dealership for repairs.
The dealership will probably balk at your proposition initially, but it can't hurt to ask. I would not be surprised if the owner took some measure to make you a more satisfied customer. If not, contact the district manager or Honda directly. I believe you have a legitimate complaint.
2 Saturdays ago (1/10) I purchased a 2004 Accord EX-L. We started signing the paperwork at 6:50, and the dealership closed at 7 so only myself, the salesperson, and the finance person were around. They explained to me that I would have to come back next Saturday (1/17) to pick up the all-weather floor mats, wheel locks, and cargo tray that were due to me because the parts department was closed. So this past Saturday (1/17) I drive 1.5 hours down to the dealership (which could've been done via UPS for no more than $15) to get the stuff. The put on the wheel locks, and put in the cargo tray and mats. Then they quickly hose off the vehicle (they salesperson put in writing that they owed me a "complete cleaning" because everyone was gone when I took posession of the vehicle, so it was kinda dirty). I'm a little upset that they didn't give me the "complete cleaning" that they promised, but decided it wasn't worth it to say anything. They also promise to fill up my tank with gas for driving down there, so the owners son (probably 16) takes the car to the nearest gas station and fills it up. Next time I see the car, it has about a 6 inch scratch (paint completely removed) on the front bumper, near the license plate! WHAT'S THIS?! The owners sons tells me that he accidently struck another car in the lot at the dealership! He further tells me that's it's no big deal - happens all the time when they're moving cars off the truck, around the lot, etc. THAT'S REASSURING! So, the sales manager puts in writting that the vehicle will be repaired to my complete satisfaction. Basically, I'm going to have to drive 1.5 hours down there next Saturday (1/24), drop the car off for a week, then pick it up 1/31! That's 3 too many round trips in my opinion! They could've just mailed the stuff to me. I understand that accidents happen, but this one really didn't need to occur. Sure, they're going to fix it, and they're giving me a loaner car for a week, but I want something for my time too! I'll discuss that this week with the owner of the dealership. The first concern that came into my head was that when they repaint the bumper the paint won't match exactly, but they told me it would because they use Honda paint. Secondly, I'm worried that this would show up on a Carfax report when I go to sell the car a few years down the road. They assured me it wouldn't - they said if the damage is under $500 it doesn't have to be reported. I'm not sure I believe that. Also, if I had done this damage myself and brought it to them to be repaired, I can only imagine that it would cost more than $500 to fix. Anyway...I'm wondering if Honda sells prepainted bumpers direct from the factory. I'd feel much more comfortable with a bumper that came painted from the factory then have some hick the dealership uses paint the thing. While there's no dents that I can see in the bumper, I'd feel better if they just replaced the entire bumper. Hey, there may be some small cracks in the bumper under the paint that we can't see...yet! I'll be making phone calls the the dealership owner and American Honda this week regarding this and to explain to them my dissatisfaction with the saleman (that's another story, but he lied to me. I wasn't wild about the pinstripping, door edge guards, and 150 miles already on the Accord I purchased, but it was the only silver EX-L (non V6) they had, plus they did give me a fair trade-in amount. The salesperson told me it would they wouldn't be getting another one for between 60 and 90 days, so I do the deal. When I showed up last Saturday (1/17), there was a brand new one on the lot that they had just received that week! Arrgh! Sorry to rant and rave here, but I had to put it out there. For the record, the dealership was Honda of Frankfort in Frankfort, KY. I'll let you know how this all turns out in a few weeks. Hopefully, the story won't be nearly as long!
I just got a Honda 4cycl auto with side airbage including NYC tax and title license total was 20800, hope I didn't get rip off ^_^.
Anyway I was wondering how long is this "break in period". I have log on 400 miles and been trying to keep it below 60. Would 600 miles be good to try to floor it.
I was pleasantly surprised at the insurance rate for my '04 EX V6 Navi. I'm in NJ with Allstate, premium is $513.40 for 6 months with collision and comprehensive. I figured it would be between $700 and $800. I have been with then a long time and my driving record is spotless, but I am in NJ which probably spikes prices a good deal. I don't think the Navi affected the premium, at least that's the impression I got when I talked to the agent who added the car to the policy, but check with your agent, as I'm sure policies/prices vary widely from state to state and company to company. Why don't you call your insurance company and ask them how much the premium will be with and without Navi? That's what I did before I bought the car. They had no problem giving me a quote.
Like you, I've driven V6s in recent cars and thought that was all I would consider. But I kept reading on this thread about how peppy the 4 cylinder is. So I tried it, and bought it.
I've had my LX a little over a week now. I've had some interstate driving already, and it does about 2300 at 70 mph and 2600 at 80 mph. This is lower than other 4 cylinders I've experienced. It's very smooth and quiet -- the fifth gear makes all the difference. Don't know if you've tried the 4 yet, but you might be pleasantly surprised. Around town, it's light on its feet, unlike the V6s I've had, and is plenty quick for the driving I do.
anonymousposts -- Obviously, I was puzzled by your earlier post where you noted turning 3000 rpms at 80 mph. I have no idea what's going on here. Can't imagine how my 4 cylinder could be that different from yours, as noted above.
Also, I figured my first mileage this evening -- 27 mpg for the first 270 miles, which was about a 60/40 mix of highway/city. Seems pretty good, considering all the idling in traffic I do around town.
I did some damage to the front bumper on my 03 EXv6 Coupe and replaced it with a new bumper. They don't come painted from the factory (just primer) but the body shop had no trouble matching the graphite paint, and it looks fine. If the dealer does not do a good job because of the scratch, insist on a new bumper
Why no response to the announcement that Honda will be introducing a hybrid V-6 Accord in the fall, possibly the most important news out of the Detroit auto show?
Looks like I will be pretty regular around here. I went with the V6, and no NAV. After not sleeping till after 6am last night, I just had to do SOMETHING. I feel pretty good about it. I am even getting a "free" pinstripe. Ivory stripe on white 04 EX V6.
I paid $24,995, a couple of hundred over Cars Direct. Got $29750 for the Lexus. I paid around $34 for it, so you KNOW I hated to do that. But at this point it was a "paper" loss, as my payments on the lease are an EXCELLENT $271.00.
And, I walk out with a check for over $8000 and no payment till Feb 19th. You KNOW I love that!
Of course, I am already wondering what Honda will have for me in 2007 ))
I am thrilled, and look forward to maybe getting the spoiler if I have a good month! I will probably get the trunk liner, and possibly the deluxe mats, and later the auto dimming mirror.
I will break it in gently, and, most importantly, ENJOY. This decision was making me truly crazy.
Due to the leasing, this is my car for the next 3 years.
In this cold weather, car broken in or not, I don't go above 3000 RPM. I have no reason based on the mechanics of the engine - it just seems to me that 4 degree air slamming into an engine at 6500RPM isn't good for the engine.
I waited until 1000 miles to really lay on the pedal (on a warm day). The exact number is in the manual, but I believe it is 600 or 800 miles.
Comments
Main problem is the high payments and the fact the dealer is over 80 miles away and i would have to take off work to go there. Seeing as their high level of service is what part of what i paid for I wonder why I did this
So, I am looking at a lease of an 04 EX V6 pretty loaded but no NAV for a lease of $270 3 years 12000 miles. Plus, I would get somewhere over $8000 dollars back cash to play with
I wish I had bought the Honda first as it suits my needs and I like it for all the reasons mentioned on this board, safety, reliability, good seats, COOL dashboard, and XM radio. Plus, the dealer is closer. I even happen to really like the way it looks.
So, the only thing stopping me is the great smooth ride of the es330 I guess. Oh yeah, it really is quiet too, which I love. The Accord is somewhat quiet by comparison, but not as quiet.
My question is, has anyone ever been in a similiar situation?
Any ways, GREAT board, I look forward to sharing my experiences should I go the Honda route. I want to make a decision before my next payment!
DB
What should give us pause is when "...on public roads" is added to the subject line.
At 90 or 100 mph, is there a chance that something outside the driver's control might intervene, like a road object, a semi-alert driver drifting lanes, deer, etc. ?
You know the answer to that one. Could any amount of excuse soften the hurt of an injured or killed person ? Answer's obvious.
The responsible reality is, we can enjoy the thought of having the best tires on a capable car driven by the keenest driver. To act on that thought, the place is the track and not public roads.
Motoring to the Germans and Italians is a passion to the majority; in the US, it's a necessity. That to me impacts the safety issue.
My last post on this subject before I get the host's buzzer.
I agree with Atlantabenny. There aren't many open areas on interstates around Atlanta where anything over 80 could be justified...
then there always are the tire failures. Those tire carcasses on the road didn't come from perfect Michelins driven at 55...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
On these interstates you can drive for 10 miles before you see another car some days. We buy the same tires and cars Germans have access to. If they were THAT dangerous we would have heard something by now. The biggest danger in Germany is inattention and inconsideration. Both are illegal in Germany.
Scenario: You are cruising down the rural interstate during the daylight hours. Rolling about 110. As you overtake a slower car you break the cruise, slow to approach speed, move over and pass, hit resume, and continue. Where's the danger? Heck if I were in a Benz with Distronic all the braking and throttle would be done automatically by the car.
If you don't like the speeding law that I break, how about obeying all of the other laws that rule the road. If YOU are obeying the "keep right" law we shall have no problems. I'll pass you and keep to my own business. But if you don't, you are breaking TWO laws. "Obstruction of flow" and "Keep right except to pass".
As I said in my previous post I'm not talking blowing by someone doing 65 at 110, I have given you the courtesy of slowing, could you just give us ignorant rational folk the courtesy of getting your superior ssa out of the way.
I always pull to the right to let faster traffic pass if it is reasonable to do so. I also travel in the right lane when it is reasonable to do so. I will not, however, decrease my speed significantly just so I can merge in with much slower moving traffic in order to let you pass. If you decide that you absolutely, positively have to pass me and express this by tailgating and flashing your lights, I will then pull over and let you pass because you have indicated that you are a dim wit who has no concern for the safety of yourself or others.
Face it, you are a dangerous, aggressive driver. The type of car you drive is irrelevant as is the amount of research you did before buying it.
Darwin does have the theory right about survival of the species and improving the gene pool.
As for the speech about staying out of your left lane, I drive safely at or above the speed limit in the left lane of three lane roads and move over when it's safe for me to do so without too much disruption of my travel speed and forward progress. I don't pay too much attention to the 90 mphers who come up flashing their lights. That's what the other two lanes are for. On two lane interstates I stay out of the left lane most of the time.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's just there is no argument to my scenario above so you have say now that I am an "aggressive driver" or "dangerous". Not once have I said anything about flashing headlights or anything like that. That's the thing about discussions about this. When you point out that it can be done safely the other side comes up with stuff that has no point in the discussion. Your scenario sound like a traffic situation. Not relavant in the context of empty interstate. Only in the mind of the "speed police" drivers.
"Keep right except to pass" is there so slower cars can keep right if there are cars overtaking. If you are in the left hand lane, you should be there to pass. Why would I have any problem with a car passing? But it shouldn't take 3 miles to pass someone should it? I'm sure we can agree on that. Then that becomes "obstruction". If you want to stay in the left hand lane for that long then who is the "dangerous" or "passive aggressive" driver? You actions are just as illegal as you imply that mine are.
If anything, you are the one with the anger. I want to keep my interaction with you limited to the couple seconds it takes for me to pass you. While you are concerned with elongating our "meeting" by policing the roads. Honestly, if you were that concerned with YOUR safety you'd think you would have moved over BEFORE I even got near your car. Cause it might not be me. It may be some idoit that just committed a crime or something. You tick THAT guy off, you might have a lot more than headlights in you rear view.
edit...See what I mean. I'm not talking about speeding on a streets. I'm talking about on open roads. Sure they have speed limits in the city. Sure there are places where you slow down. We all know that. I spent 2 years in Japan where I saw some of the most lurid wrecks in cars made of tissue. Got no problem with speed limits. But the point is that some of them, like many other laws, don't make any sense.
You aren't running into a culvert on an empty interstate in the daytime if you are awake. The doom and gloom only works if you can give a reasonable scenario. Drunk Caddy folks had other issues obviously. Now if you tell me a guy was just driving down the interstate minding his own busines and his car suddenly wrecked due to nothing that the driver did then it would make sense. Tire failure can kill at 35 mph, drivetrain siezure, steering failure, structural disintegration the same. Isn't that why we bought Accords? You buy premium stuff to rule those things out. I mean I certainly hope these $150 tires can survive 100mph.
Where did you come up with the idea that I am "policing the roads". As I said in my last post, I move to the right when it is reasonable to do so. That means when there is no slower moving traffic ahead in that lane for a reasonable distance. (Maybe it is the words 'reason' and 'reasonable' that you are having a problem with.) So any "actions" you are attributing to me in this regard are imaginary.
That's the thing about discussions about this. When you point out... the other side comes up with stuff that has no point in the discussion.
You clearly have some antisocial tendencies if you are driving over 100 mph on a regular basis. The fact that you are doing it on what you perceive as "empty interstate" does not make it safe or justifiable.
I take my driving very seriously. Never an at fault accident in 20 years of driving. I try to be as courteous as possible. As I said in my scenario, those were the conditions that I would be cruising at high speed. There was no aggression stated or implied. In fact as it was written, it covered any overtaking situation. How can you kill someone by passing? Sounds like exaggeration to me.
Never called anyone ignorant, immature, or foolish (post 13437 sounds kinda like the abusive language starting) or anything. I just provided a scenario of one car travelling faster than another and passing. Just as the roads were designed for. No blinking lights or anything. Two drivers practicing common courtesy on the open road. But of course to counter that you have to imply MY???(ooops) anger building when you injected name calling.
"Dangerous" "aggressive" "anti-social" "road rage" in what way. It's easy to throw those terms out but harder to justify them. Go back to my original scenario and pull any of those out that situation and I'll be impressed.
On the other hand you sullied the discussion calling names. Continued by saying that anyone driving faster than YOU want then to is driving aggressively or beyond his ability. Continuing by saying you may be killed by someone passing? How? As I pointed out before, passing involves mere seconds of interaction between two cars. You have yet to explain how my speeding when alone, slowing when overtaking, and continuing at my speed is endangering YOU. Just a bunch of cliches and name calling so far.
I think Atlantabenny was right though. This is like trying to argue religion. I'm done with it.
OTOH
"Sounds like someone can't argue with reason. ...mind of the "speed police" drivers..."
"But if you don't, you are breaking TWO laws. "Obstruction of flow" and "Keep right except to pass"."
"inattention and inconsideration. Both are illegal in Germany."
Nope, no anger in these responses.
Trying to justify aggressive and dangerous speeds by point fingers at other drivers using left lane for passing at or slightly above posted speed limits and trying to pile on with two laws broken...????
Show me the number of tickets written on interstates for "obstruction" and "failure to keep right" versus the number for speeding and excessive speed for conditions... Which do yo think is more dangerous in the eyes of legislators and police?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was passed on the way to WalMart by an independent trucker. Nice new, spiffy paint job truck, very new looing. His tires cost more than $130. His vehicle has more than claimed 220 horsepower and lots of torque. It weighs a lot. And the driver drives more in a month than most of us drive in a year. He's an expert. He should be able to drive as fast as he wants where he makes the decision on the speed limit.
Okay by me. My choice for great speeds would be CTS with rear wheel drive. Guess I'll have to get my logic straightened up for Monday morning when I go back to the office. But it's okay for me to think this way on weekends. Right?
Last post off topic.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am an old guy (58) who very seldon drives over the speed limit, even one at 25 or 30 mph. I am very used to aggressive drivers tailgaiting me, honking their horns, flashing lights, etc. I just ignore them.
On the Washington D.C. beltway, where I drive 55-60 mph, I almost always stay in the right lane. On a nearby 4-lane suburban street with a 45 mph speed limit, I sometimes drive in the left lane because the traffic is less in that lane or because I plan to turn left in a couple miles.
Your method of driving does not irritate me in the least. Do I irritate you? If so, too bad. Tell someone who cares.
I'm talking more I-66 heading to I-81 driving. Or even 81 coming up TN VA and WVA way. 81 has some nice stretches on it.
Agreed, it's not aimed at that market, but look at it this way: Take a car that was considered a sports sedan 5 years ago. Is that car still a sports sedan? Chances are, this 7th generation Honda Accord can blow its doors off.
gee wrote:
"They discuss this speeding stuff in by gee35coupe Jan 18, 2004 (11:55 am)
Inconsiderate Drivers. Those who want to continue should meet there."
Then gee wrote:
"#13449 of 13450 LOL Bob. You're cool by me. by gee35coupe Jan 18, 2004 (12:11 pm)
The Beltway can be MURDER. I used to have to pass through there about 6 times a month on my way to various areas in Baltimore. You have to catch it at the right times or you'll be stuck forever. I'm surprised you get to go the speed limit there.
I'm talking more I-66 heading to I-81 driving. Or even 81 coming up TN VA and WVA way. 81 has some nice stretches on it."
Need to move discussion. They discuss this in Inconsiderate Drivers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks.
He said by dumping the ES330 he would have an extra $8000 to play with and his payments would be cut by $100 a month. Here is my response: Davebell, you will take a bit of a hit by dumping the new ES330, there is really now way around that fact. Once you drive a new car off a lot, it loses value. But, it looks like the hit will be offset by the difference in price between the two cars. I would dump the ES330 and go with the Accord, because it fits your financial situation much better, and the Accord is a GREAT car. I do no think you will have any regrets, I believe you will be relieved. And, if you get the navigation system in the Accord, I believe you might even like the car better then your Lexus. Good luck.
The Lexus really is a great car and the more I drive it, the more I like it. However, the income I planned to use to make the payments is not as steady as i had hoped. And, I paid about 34K and change, and I think I can get the Honda dealer up to very close to $30K. Not that bad, really. So, with the kickback from the lease of at least $8000 and the cheaper payments, I would still be driving a great car.
I have read almost every message on the entire accord boards, and many people say how much they love it.
The price they have offered me on the V6 EX with NO nav is $24.995. About $500 over Cars Direct price and even a little below Edmunds TMV price. i will, of course, try to negotiate this further.
At least drive the 4 cylinder so you don't have the question in the back of your mind if you should've saved even more money by buying the 4 instead of the V6. Personally, I am not mature enough for the V6 but the 4 cylinder is definitely no slouch.
I'm really amazed about how little DETAILED information is available about the accord. The best site so far is epinions.com, there are about 20 reviews there. I'm not talking about the obvious info, like the 240HP, but the DETAILS. For example, it took me a month to find out you can open all the windows with the key.
Can some of you tell me about the little things that you like about the accord? little storage compartments? Nav system special features, nice touches, etc.
This would be for the top of the line model, with Navigation. Thanks!
Providing you won't take a much larger hit on the trade than you anticipate, the move to an Accord for the reasons you state make sense.
Also, does it have a compass? (but then again, maybe you don't need one with the Nav system)
thanks
However, I mays til drive the 4 and truly appriciate your input.
Also, I wonder why everyone sys the NAV is so cool. I only drive in my towns and never need a map. People really seem to like it though. I just never even considered spending any money on it.
In my travels before I bought the OLexus, I tried the SAAB 4 and the AUDI 4, nice, but I was driving my Avalon at the time and realy loved that 6!
Thanks,
DB
Yes, in addition to all of its other voice-controlled mapping functions, the Navigation system's computer displays average miles per gallon, average speed, miles 'til empty, etc. It also handles the climate control and audio systems. All great features. I've only learned about 40% of the 180+ voice commands so far.
With the display in the "North up" mode you don't need a separate compass since the red-arrow icon, indicating your current position, points in the direction that you are travelling, the same as a compass arrow. The "Heading up" mode flips the map display for those folks who turn paper maps upside down or sideways.
Your position can be displayed as latitude, longitude and elevation if you choose.
Also, don't sweat the "little things". They are all there, in spades.
You bought a car with relatively high mileage because you believed it would be the only one like it available for several months. I assume you inquired about a dealer trade, or was it a situation where you had to take possession immediately?
In any event, that plus the fact that your car was damaged by the dealer's son, seems to me reasonable grounds to request the switch. Also, as you point out, there is also the inconvenience of driving back and forth to the dealership for repairs.
The dealership will probably balk at your proposition initially, but it can't hurt to ask. I would not be surprised if the owner took some measure to make you a more satisfied customer. If not, contact the district manager or Honda directly. I believe you have a legitimate complaint.
So, I am going to take it slow on this next purchase, if there is one.
I will let you good people know the outcome, for sure.
Thanks,
DB
akangl "Real-World Trade-In Values" Jan 19, 2004 11:28am
So this past Saturday (1/17) I drive 1.5 hours down to the dealership (which could've been done via UPS for no more than $15) to get the stuff. The put on the wheel locks, and put in the cargo tray and mats. Then they quickly hose off the vehicle (they salesperson put in writing that they owed me a "complete cleaning" because everyone was gone when I took posession of the vehicle, so it was kinda dirty). I'm a little upset that they didn't give me the "complete cleaning" that they promised, but decided it wasn't worth it to say anything. They also promise to fill up my tank with gas for driving down there, so the owners son (probably 16) takes the car to the nearest gas station and fills it up. Next time I see the car, it has about a 6 inch scratch (paint completely removed) on the front bumper, near the license plate! WHAT'S THIS?! The owners sons tells me that he accidently struck another car in the lot at the dealership! He further tells me that's it's no big deal - happens all the time when they're moving cars off the truck, around the lot, etc. THAT'S REASSURING!
So, the sales manager puts in writting that the vehicle will be repaired to my complete satisfaction. Basically, I'm going to have to drive 1.5 hours down there next Saturday (1/24), drop the car off for a week, then pick it up 1/31! That's 3 too many round trips in my opinion! They could've just mailed the stuff to me. I understand that accidents happen, but this one really didn't need to occur. Sure, they're going to fix it, and they're giving me a loaner car for a week, but I want something for my time too! I'll discuss that this week with the owner of the dealership.
The first concern that came into my head was that when they repaint the bumper the paint won't match exactly, but they told me it would because they use Honda paint. Secondly, I'm worried that this would show up on a Carfax report when I go to sell the car a few years down the road. They assured me it wouldn't - they said if the damage is under $500 it doesn't have to be reported. I'm not sure I believe that. Also, if I had done this damage myself and brought it to them to be repaired, I can only imagine that it would cost more than $500 to fix. Anyway...I'm wondering if Honda sells prepainted bumpers direct from the factory. I'd feel much more comfortable with a bumper that came painted from the factory then have some hick the dealership uses paint the thing. While there's no dents that I can see in the bumper, I'd feel better if they just replaced the entire bumper. Hey, there may be some small cracks in the bumper under the paint that we can't see...yet!
I'll be making phone calls the the dealership owner and American Honda this week regarding this and to explain to them my dissatisfaction with the saleman (that's another story, but he lied to me. I wasn't wild about the pinstripping, door edge guards, and 150 miles already on the Accord I purchased, but it was the only silver EX-L (non V6) they had, plus they did give me a fair trade-in amount. The salesperson told me it would they wouldn't be getting another one for between 60 and 90 days, so I do the deal. When I showed up last Saturday (1/17), there was a brand new one on the lot that they had just received that week! Arrgh!
Sorry to rant and rave here, but I had to put it out there. For the record, the dealership was Honda of Frankfort in Frankfort, KY. I'll let you know how this all turns out in a few weeks. Hopefully, the story won't be nearly as long!
I just got a Honda 4cycl auto with side airbage including NYC tax and title license total was 20800, hope I didn't get rip off ^_^.
Anyway I was wondering how long is this "break in period". I have log on 400 miles and been trying to keep it below 60. Would 600 miles be good to try to floor it.
Thank you very much
I've had my LX a little over a week now. I've had some interstate driving already, and it does about 2300 at 70 mph and 2600 at 80 mph. This is lower than other 4 cylinders I've experienced. It's very smooth and quiet -- the fifth gear makes all the difference. Don't know if you've tried the 4 yet, but you might be pleasantly surprised. Around town, it's light on its feet, unlike the V6s I've had, and is plenty quick for the driving I do.
anonymousposts -- Obviously, I was puzzled by your earlier post where you noted turning 3000 rpms at 80 mph. I have no idea what's going on here. Can't imagine how my 4 cylinder could be that different from yours, as noted above.
Also, I figured my first mileage this evening -- 27 mpg for the first 270 miles, which was about a 60/40 mix of highway/city. Seems pretty good, considering all the idling in traffic I do around town.
Let's have some reaction.
I paid $24,995, a couple of hundred over Cars Direct. Got $29750 for the Lexus. I paid around $34 for it, so you KNOW I hated to do that. But at this point it was a "paper" loss, as my payments on the lease are an EXCELLENT $271.00.
And, I walk out with a check for over $8000 and no payment till Feb 19th. You KNOW I love that!
Of course, I am already wondering what Honda will have for me in 2007
I am thrilled, and look forward to maybe getting the spoiler if I have a good month! I will probably get the trunk liner, and possibly the deluxe mats, and later the auto dimming mirror.
I will break it in gently, and, most importantly, ENJOY. This decision was making me truly crazy.
Due to the leasing, this is my car for the next 3 years.
Thank you for all your help and understanding.
Tomorrow evening I go to do the trade!
DB
I waited until 1000 miles to really lay on the pedal (on a warm day). The exact number is in the manual, but I believe it is 600 or 800 miles.