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Comments
With the new V6 engines, there still is alot of disassembly to do to get to the timing belt, which is a Maintenance item, and again, it's probably a good time to change the water pump.
With the 4 cyl engine, they may just have to remove the serpentine belt to get to the pump, and at $95/hr it's a LOT less labor cost. Typically you don't replace a pump based on mileage, just on failure, so you may get many more miles out of it then the 105,000 mile requirement for a timing belt repalcement.
I'd be curious at what the dealer would quote for changing just a pump on a 4 cyl vs a pump on a 6 cyl. When I was shopping for my 04 Accord, I called 3 dealers and asked what the price would be to replace the timing belt. I got quotes that ran from $499-$769 for the belt. The $499 was just to replace the timing belt, the $769 ( I think) was to replace timing belt, water pump, and other drive belts.
One other concern with belt vs chain, belts have been known to break, which results in severe engine damage. Yes, timing chains can fail, but is very rare.
I typically keep a car for 200,000+ miles. When I added the extra cost for the 6 cyl, less gas mileage, and probably 2 belt changes, I opted for the 4 cyl. I would have enjoyed the extra HP, but going from an 88 Accord with 98 HP, the 160 HP 4 seemed plenty. I can also reach around the engine compartment better with the smaller 4.
I just switched from Accord LX-4 1998 to Accord LX-4 2005 and couldn't help but notice quite a few things that went wrong and a few changed for better.
First of all, what I mostly appreciated in Honda cars was their terrific design in ergonomics. I drove about 14 different makes and models including BMW, Mercedes, Chevys, Fords, Nissan, VW, Toyota etc and Honda used to be absolutely best in convenience of use and control location etc (ergonomics, for short).
Sadly, with redesign they decided to save money on that as well and screwed up a lot!
1. First and most egregious (I would even say, criminal) mistake is making the
control panel lighting constant instead of headlight-dependent. It used to be
that controls lit up only when you turned your headlights on and that saved
a lot of people from driving around at night without lights on.
2. Second and also very bad thing is putting a lot of red (bright red, at that!)
color onto the control panel - all gauge arrows are now brightly lit red which
is really confusing and can easily distract the driver from other red sensors
that might pop up indicating engine or oil problems etc.
3. Some buttons on the dashboard are located now in strange places - for instance, volume/power knob now resides smackdab in the middle of a/c panel - what is it doing there?
4. Also a/c buttons now have the lights next to them not directly on them - which
is a minus compared to the old way.
5. Again about audio system and this one is a doozy - how did they manage to put in a new headunit which is absolutely incompatible with everything available
from car audio manufacturers? Now there is almost no way I can add a changer or an m3-player or a cassette player etc - unless I want to pay exorbitant prices for
two very limited options sold at the dealerships. Accord is not a BMW whose owners on average are much better off financially and can afford dealership prices. Not to mention that Honda doesn't offer mp3-capable CD-changers or hard-drive or flash-based audio players - and it is really not their place to do that, they make cars not audio systems. However, it is their responisbility is to make the car easy to drive and easy to add or install such common options!
Also, come on - this is 2005! - you guys still install an old-style CD-player that
cannot read mp3/wma CD-R/W discs?? Are you afraid that if you spend extra 10 dollars on it people won't buy your vehicles?
6. On the older Accord you could only sound a horn when you pushed a specific area in the center of the steering wheel. Now virtually all the inside portion of the
steering wheel is the horn which is really not a good idea - when you make turns,
cross your arms over the wheel etc it becomes very easy to accidentally push the
horn and that's bad!
7. Lost backlit gear indicator on the shifter. Plus old gear gauge on the control panel was better - hiliting should be around the gear symbol, not next to it!
8. Lost a very convenient feature when turning engine on/off closed or opened the
power door locks. Isn't it time to make features like that customizable?
9. Lost third-way (up-down) handle on the driver seat - for some people it is probably not a problem (like myself) but I know at least two drivers who have significant problems with positioning the seat so that they don't get leg or back cramps.
10. Either due to some changes in suspension or in feedback from wheels to steering (I have no idea which it is) the steering wheel is now more sensitive to bumps and other kinks and turns in the road - now it takes more strength and constant control of the arms and wrists to stabilize and hold the car.
Generally, 1-2 and 10 are my main gripes - Honda used to be a perfect car in terms of ergonomics of controls and convenience of driving (nothing special but very reliable and stable) but now this advantage is disappearing. I understand that designers need to make constant changes to keep up with all the science and ever-growing list of requirements from government and drivers but please don't change things that used to be so good (and now they are not)!!
OK, now good things:
1. Wiper controls now work the same way as in most other vehicles - that is also
a matter of habit but since both ways do not really differ that much it is better to
join the absolute majority here.
2. Car is now a bit heavier and more stable on snow and wet surfaces; not to
mention that ABS brakes are now standard on LX. Yippee!
3. Fixed some transmission issues.
4. Car-seat latch system is now standard - thanks!
5. Timing chain instead of belt - that's very commendable!
6. One other thing which can be good or bad - it's subjective: Headrests for the backseats - on one hand, it is safer to have them, on the other hand they subtract even more from rear visibility. Even for a tall guy like myself they sometimes obscure portions of view when I look back to check on the road.
I am sure there are some other good things they added but I am mostly concerned here with immediate driver/car interaction - ergonomics, ease of use, handling and such.
There may have been a few things you didn't like about the old car when you first got it. It is surprising how quickly we adapt.
Here is a crazy idea - why not allow owners to have some way to customize some "software" features in a vehicle? Imagine there would be a hidden computer input jack somewhere such that a dealer could plug their computer in during maintenance or at the moment of purchase and you would tell them smth like
"OK, I want my control panel to light up only when headlights are on; and I also want my power locks to close/open when I turn ignition on/off; and I like green color of the arrows much more than red... and I also would like my fuel gauge to be vertical, not horizontal..; also when I play CD please make the LCD display show me the tracktime... " and so on...
I am not talking here about changing color of the interior or streamlining the rear end of the vehicle since those are very material hardware things which you obviously cannot adjust... but changing the appearance of the display on your dashboard and other "software" things - that's quite doable I think. Could be a next fad - whaddaya think?
I could also come up with a long list of "why did they do that" complaints about my 04 Accord, but can also come up with a list of things I really like about the car.
I have the navigation system in my car, and would love to have the option of customizing what is being displayed on the screen. I'm referring to the trip computer/radio controls/climate control/ displays. Currently you have to select each one saparately. I would be nice to have a screen that showed a combined subset of the most common functions from each screen.
>> when you turn ur headligh on?
Unfortunately, no. You can dim it or make it brighter but once you turn the engine on, level of brightness stays the same regardless of the headlights - I had the dealer check it and asked them this professing my incredulity at the fact that something like that was screwed up... and there was nothing they could do about it (naturally).
If you have the navigation option, the setting of the dimmer control affects the navigation display!!! I had programmed the display to be in the "auto night dimming" mode. The first evening I drove the car, it got darker, and darker outside, but the navigation display was on full brightness. It was very distracting. Anything I did in the setup would not activate the night mode. By accident, I turned the dimmer control, and once I got past a slight detent, the navigation screen changed to the night mode. Turning the knob back kicked the navigation screen into full brightness again!!! Turns out that the screen appears to be controlled by turning on/off the headlights, and has nothing to do with how dark it is outside. I just don't understand the link to the dimmer control. Needless to say, that seems to be a confusing design.
It seems that manufacturers nowadays are not interested in knowing what is important to us drivers but rather how to make adding aftermarket audio options as difficult as possible so that we would come running to the dealerships and pay their jacked-up prices. Can you believe that adding a single-CD mp3-capable player to a new Accord will cost you $630 at the dealership?!!! and there is almost nothing you can do about it unless you are a car electronics guru who can get into the factory system and splice audio input into it somehow (which will void the warranty and could conceivably even damage your security system).
Almost all new cars now come with standard CD-player instead of a cassette - that means you cannot use a "fake cassette" adapter so you have to use a "fake radio" adapter (like iRock from RadioShack) which gives you significantly lower sound quality... so short of changing your headunit completely (that will most likely cost you much more than you want to spend and will also kill the aesthtetics of your dashboard) there is not much you can do (I am talking here about new Accord where 7th gen Alpine headunit has new plug incompatible with ALL - read it again - ALL! - older interfaces from BlitzSafe, SoundGate or P.I.E.
save for one that allegedly allows to connect it only with Sony changers or AUX line; jury is still out on whether that always works).
Oh, please...criminal???
"... mistake is making the control panel lighting constant instead of headlight-dependent. It used to be that controls lit up only when you turned your headlights on and that saved a lot of people from driving around at night without lights on."
If it takes the control panel lightning to prompt one to turn the headlights on- perhaps one should avoid night driving altogether. My eyes are not that sensitive, and the control panel can be set to dim when you turn on the lights- otherwise its too bright for me.
"Second and also very bad thing is putting a lot of red (bright red, at that!)
color onto the control panel - all gauge arrows are now brightly lit red which
is really confusing and can easily distract the driver from other red sensors
that might pop up indicating engine or oil problems etc. "
The shape of any those guage needles dont resemble any of the sensor icons that may light up- plus the shade of the needles really is closer to orange where any of the icons in question will be a darker, closer to a red shade.
"Now virtually all the inside portion of the steering wheel is the horn which is really not a good idea - when you make turns, cross your arms over the wheel etc it becomes very easy to accidentally push the horn and that's bad!"
I dont know how you situate your hand and arms when you turn, but if your hands are on the wheel, hitting the horn accidently shouldnt be an issue.
Actually, If one needs to use the horn, imo its much better to have a big target to honk with instead of fumbling around the wheel for little buttons.
"Either due to some changes in suspension or in feedback from wheels to steering (I have no idea which it is) the steering wheel is now more sensitive to bumps and other kinks and turns in the road - now it takes more strength and constant control of the arms and wrists to stabilize and hold the car. "
Thats the way it is- most of the buying public prefer the sensitivity youre objecting to. Go drive some thing from 20-30 years ago if you dont beleive me.
I really think you're making a "mountain out of a molehill" with some of youre objections.
And again I am not saying that the changes are "killing" me - I am just pointing out that they are making the car objectively less ergonomic and somewhat less convenient to use. It sounds like you are used to these things but the problem is that once you drive a car which is better ergonomically then it is harder to tolerate absence of that in your new vehicle - let me insert an analogy here:
When I was working with older computers I did not notice (and neither did any of my colleagues in the office) that their monitors were gradually harming our vision. Then I called our IT and they installed screen filters on my Sun station. And again I didn't notice any substantial difference until 6 mos later I had to work on another computer identical to mine but without the filter - and within 2-3 hours my eyes started to ache. That's how I knew that the filters indeed made a difference!
Same here - if you are used to cars with specific sets of features or style of handling or type of engine then it makes it harder to be picky about better ones, and you can treat their owners' complaints with certain disdain saying "you guys are just so spoiled by your fancy cars and features... let's see you drive my old truck and complain about it, you nancy boys".
The thing is that nowadays you can spend same amount of money (say, $19k for an Accord LX-4) and buy a much better car than 10 years ago - and who's to blame us for wanting it to be user-friendly and more stable on the road and easier to use etc etc. That's why we become more sensitive when all of a sudden cars become worse (objectively or subjectively) even in small details...
But then again - I bought Accord again even with all these complaints of mine. I still appreciate the fact that it is one of the most reliable and durable family sedans with great mpg etc etc. It's 'cause I love it - that's why I want it to be better!
But is this actuallly the case?
"And don't worry about me - I am sufficiently obscessive about turning the knobs not to drive around without headlights..."
Well thats good to hear!
"but I do know at least a couple of new drivers (new here means that they were unfamiliar with this new Accord) who almost got into a crash because of that feature."
Your analogy is fine- your opinion about the ergonomics is as well.
Imo its the conclusion you arrive at regarding some of your objections, i.e "resulting in accidents because of..."
Saying someone crashes because of the dashlights are already lit is a misplace of blame- plain and simple. The only thing(s) that should prompt the headlights being on is the presence of dusk/dark conditions.
I dont know if its just my car- but the very large drivers side windshield wiper blocks a lot of the washer fluid if when you hit wash, unless you start the wiper on the way up(using mist) then hitting wash.
Too big a horn button - if you are still crossing your arms while turning, you can be injured in the case of an accident. Drivers today are taught to drive with their hands at 4 and 8 o'clock and to push the steering wheel through the turn as opposed to hands at 10 and 2 and crossing over each other. Airbags have a nasty habit of slamming hands and arms into faces causing broken noses, cheek bones, and eye sockets when they deploy.
Is there some way to have the doors lock automatically. Because I forget to lock
the doors.
Thanks
That's true... but it is only applicable to ... how should I put that... ablebodied drivers and to people who actually pay attention to the car before they start driving it. I am sure you agree that in the States since virtually everybody has to drive (save some percentage of population in the big cities) then inevitable some considerable number of drivers are pretty bad at it - they either have bad reflexes or bad vision or bad memory or bad notions about what the rules are etc. Not to forget here about seniors - for them it is usually about NOT changing anything in a new car, that's what important to them in the first place. Therefore any change that requires extra time to familiarize yourself with the updated vehicle is somewhat dangerous for a lot of people. Simply put, a huge number of people you encounter everyday on the road do not take driving seriously - they either don't have energy for that or no interest in spending extra 10 minutes to make sure they understand how to operate their vehicles. It's them for whom old habits in driving their trusty 10-year old Corolla are more important than the fact that the new car has some extra fancy doodads - and it's them who force us to make our driving so unavoidably defensive and cautious.
2 blh7068: I didn't notice anything new about the wipers - but then again I haven't yet used them that much in the new Accord. The truth is I regularly (about once a month) apply Rain-X to my windshield and that really helps me to drive in the rain. On the highway when you drive 50 mph or more you can drive thru a pretty heavy rain without ever turning the wipers on - and that's for real, believe me! Putting wipers on actually made matters worse since they obscured my vision without making visibiity any better! Of course, when you drive in the city going at 20-35 and stop at every light then effect is not so amazing since there is no strong air pressure to blow the raindrops away from your windshield, but still...
That's one of the ways that Honda distinguishes itself from its higher priced Acura line.
You'll get an insurance discount on the comprehensive portion. But go see your local PD - they'll do it for free or very little cost. DO NOT PAY FOR THIS SERVICE AT THE DEALER!!!
As a matter of fact I haven't heard of even one vehicle sold in the US (base-trim model) where its CD-player is mp3-capable - not true in Europe! Perhaps main issue is not that of the cost (after all mp3-capable CD-players are only a few dollars more expensive) but the question of LCD display - basically when you play an mp3 file you are supposed to display its ID3 tag - artist, track name, track # etc (at least trackname) and there is simply no room for that on a regular small LCD panel of any mass-production vehicle here.
All of that means that you are relegated to using an aftermarket mp3 CD-changer or an auxiliary source such as mp3 walkman or IPod or some mp3-player (flash or hard-drive based) which you won't be able to control from your stereo. Check out www.mp3yourcar.com or similar sites for additional info - www.logjamelectronics.com sells a lot of interfaces that can be used to connect your factory stereo to an aux audio source or a changer.
"That's one of the ways that Honda distinguishes itself from its higher priced Acura line."
Well I hope Honda fixes this "oversight" with the 2006 Accord. The Camry & even the Corolla has it.
The addition of automatic headlamps (which is also available on the Camry & Corolla) to the 2006 Accord should prevent people from driving at night without their headlamps on.
I checked mine yesterday, and I am averaging 27mpg. I thought that
was good.
Accord EX 4 Cylinder
1) paying $2500 for sunroof (don't want it) and CD changer? no thanks! and difference in horsepower is somewhat neutralized by extra weight and worse maneuvering abilities (especially when going from zero to thirty). Unless you really need that huge power kick to pass the dreaded 18-wheeler while goind uphill in 5 secs instead of 7 secs...
2) have you looked at the gas prices recently? are you prepared to spend about 20% more at the pump?
So I took I-4 and am pretty happy with it (although with some gripes about ergonomics and such but that has nothing to do with the V-6 vs. I-4 issue).
On highway at speed 70-75 mph, my 03EXV6 has an avg. of 31-32MPG.
How does your EXI-4 do?
My LX I-4 gets 32-33 hwy / 26-27 city/suburbs so that's about 20% more...
I can't remember ever reading such a nitpicking post! Of course your new Accord is going to have a different layout than your 1998!
What most people view as improvements you see as problems.
Hopefully you'll get used to these changes.
Most people never bother shifting their own "Shiftronic" transmissions. They simply put them n "drive" and leave them there.
Not everyone WANTS theri doors to automatically lock...I don't.
I guess it's a marketing decision what to include or not include. If the Accords had all of the features of an Acura TL, why buy the Acura?
I've owned a couple of cars with automatic door locks and I hated that feature. I want the doors unlocked if I'm in an accident and can't get out myself. For the rare times when I may be in a sleazy neighborhood, I'm perfectly capable of pushing the lock button.
As far as auto headlights go, my wifes Solara has that, and I've grown to like it. At first I didn't like not having the option to turn them off, but it's kind of nice not having to turn them on when you get in or off when you get out.
No objection to the center mounted hand brake which is convenient and used only when parking (no emergency braking yet)......Richard
Like you said it's a marketing decision which Honda will make with the MY06 Accord. I'm sure they'll base this decision on what the current & near-future competition will be offering.
BTW isellhondas, I read somewhere that the 06 Accord will get a 6 Speed Automatic, is that true ?