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Comments
KarenS
Vans host
advertising charge. Does anyone know if the dealer is really out $500.00?
I ordered this van on 10/10. Dealership called this morning and said it was going down
the line. Arrival date should be the end of this month. Hope this is true.
The dealership offered $10,5 for my 96 T/C I bought in May 96 for $26,5. Including
interest, that works out to about $330.00 a month. Only thing I had to replace on this van
was tires and brakes which is normal for any vehicle with 80,000 miles. Of coarse the
transmission was replaced but under warranty. I am well satisfied.
To give you 3 references (gee, I wonder how the dealer came up with numbers to give themselves a potential $10,000 profit?)
On a 1997 T&C LXI with standard features and 45K miles:
Edmunds $14,200 trade in and $17075 retail
Kelly Blue Buok: 16,330 trade, $21,300 retail
NADA (june 2000, sorry not current) $16400 wholesale, $18000 trade in, and $20500 retail.
There are not many more major pricing publications out there and I really find it hard to believe 3 major ones put the trade in on this van $11500 at best.
In a serarch of www.autotrader.com turned up 499 97 T&C's the least expensive LXI had 100000 miles on it and was priced at $11,000, the least expensive under 50K miles was $15,000, the mean price of all 97 T&C's all models was $17,985. Granted this is what dealers are asking and they do need to make some profit but even it they were willing to take $2000 off the mean price and still poket $2000 profit, they would still be able to pay $14000 on a trade. FYI there were 55 priced over $10,000 more then what you received as a trade in hence the possibility of a $10,000 profit.
http://www.money.com/money/depts/autos/onwheels/index.html
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
As an another example of differences between Canadian and US warranties, with the VW Passat sold in Canada, the ptrain warranty coverage is 5/50k miles and is worse than Passats sold in the US which have a 10/100k mile ptrain warranty.
Interesting about VW in Canada - I wonder if the basic warranty is any better (in the U.S., I was surprised to find that they cover bumper-to-bumper for only 2 years/24,000 miles).
In Canada, VW offers bumper-to-bumper coverage on the Passat of 2 yrs/40000 km (I'm not sure about the rest of the VW lineup).
i just got an email from a chrysler service tech friend of mine. he said that the 3.5l engine will only be available on the town and country this coming spring. along with that engine comes some changes to the tranny, especially better torque management. he went on to say that the "differential" part of the transaxle was upgraded significantly around a year ago. since the mid 90s the biggest problems with the 41te have shifted toward the differential part of the transaxle and its spider gears/pins rather than the tranny itself. seems that abuse such as spinning your tires excessively while stuck in snow or mud has caused these parts to overheat seize or even break through the transaxle casing. anyway, the upgrades should certainly help stave off this problem. also, just in case you are a chrysler transmission troll, this differential weakness is resident with the 41te only. the 42le in the lh cars has an entirely different differential that is quite robust.
The $64,000 question is why DaimlerChrysler waited so long to fix yet another in what seems like an interminable series of problems with this transmission - it amounts to an admission that everything built up to a year (or so) ago remains problematic. Scroll up a few topics, and you'll see someone complaining about a failure in a 1999 Town and Country - a failure that sounds very simliar to what we experienced in 1993 (i.e., wham-bam-shudder-lock into low gear, with metal all over the inside of the transaxle).
Maybe they have finally fixed the problems - what is really irritating is that they've known all along that these units have multiple failure modes, and that they've taken almost a dozen years to hopefully make things right.
It also casts a lot of doubt on those who claim that it's just a problem with the wrong fluid being used (particularly for those of us who experienced the problems, despite proper care with only OEM parts and fluid being used for maintenance).
Then again, maybe the Daimler part is FINALLY bringing the Chrysler part into the modern age, reliability wise.
However, if it is the differential that is a weak link, it could explain why the units are so much worse in minivans than they are in cars (and in turn, why they're worse in larger cars like the Dynasty and New Yorker, etc. than in smaller ones like the Stratus and Cirrus).
It will be interesting to see if the unit finally ends up being replaced, as 5-speed automatics become mainstream. However, I wonder how much better Daimler will be with transaxle design - since they sell essentially no front-wheel drive cars of their own.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Seriously though, the 722.6 MB adaptive 5 speed automatic transmission is one of the best in the industry. Although it is several years old now, there are very few issues with it (some which can be fixed by a software upload), and even Jaguar buys it from MB for use in their cars. This basic transmission design is used across the entire MB lineup, from the V6 C-class to the V12 S-class and CL-class.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
of course you don't expect an mb tranny to breakdown...that's why it is much more painful when it does happen. and that will happen when this tranny is installed in "plebian" cars like the intrepid. i'd be willing to bet that the average intrepid owner is far less rigorous about his car's maintenance vs a merc owner.
from that article are very telling. "it isn't as
radical as it sounds." and "it doesn't mean that
these or other projects won't be reinstated." (not verbatim)
Also, how are they in ice and snow? The long-range forecast for the Philadelphia area (where I live) seems to indicate more foul weather than has been the norm lately.
That package costs $680.00 retail, so I need to do a bit of cost/benefit analysis.
Thanks for your help!
Join the DC Minivan Club...FREE!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcminivanclub
Also, if you're in California, the sales tax will drop by 1/4 percent 1/1/01 and the vehicle license tax will drop by 25% 1/1/01- a difference of several hundred dollars on a $30,000 purchase.
Possible discounting and Calif. tax reductions may make it worth waiting a couple of months if you're in the market. If you wait until next year, then you might as well wait for the new 3.5L engine coming out in March. My wife's gonna shoot me...she wants her T&C NOW!
Thanks to everybody for your opinions - I'm definately leaning toward the 16" wheels now.
P.S. Removed the 14 inchers from my 91 and put 215/60R16 X-Ones on.
Indydriver- I've heard there are good deals out there on Firestone... but seriously I would reccommend checking out some of the different Dunlops.
of your comments and they are very helpful.
I am waiting for a low
finance rate before
ordering an ES AWD...
Edmunds is showing a
0.9% financing for 60
months for Dodge minivans. This is under the regional rebates...I cannot find
this anywhere else.
I have checked Carpoint
and intellichoice. is
there another web site
I can check? Thanks
for all the other info..
Since you aren't sure exactly how much over invoice you paid, perhaps you didn't see the invoice and the advertising charges were hidden from you. My understanding is that all dealers are invoiced for advertising and few if any will eat them.
Being a distrustful kind of guy, when I picked up my vehicle I asked to see an invoice from a similar but different van so that I could verify that the advertising charges were the same as on my invoice. (The dealer tried to act offended that I would do this, but I pointed out that I knew he wasn't doubting my word when he had asked to see my I.D. to verify my identity.)
Ordered in Sept before the dealer was able to quote MSRP figures for all the options. We negotiated on the basis of factory invoice, which was what I preferred, even though I didn't know the exact $ amount until the vehicle arrived exactly one month later (west coast).
BTW, the van has exceeded my expectations so far. The only negative thing I can find to complain about is that it is a long reach to the e-brake release latch. Pretty minor.
--rolfe.
Today, I got a call and was told they could enter process a factor order because "production has been put on an indefinite hold."
Anyone know anything about this?
After finally deciding to get a T&C Limited, we were unable to find one in the dealer's region that had the color and options we wanted. So, last Thursday we told the dealer to go ahead and order one.
Today, I got a call and was told that they could not enter a factory order because "production has been put on an indefinite hold."
Anyone know anything about this?
Many DaimlerChrysler U.S. plants are on furlough to reduce inventories - so far, it's been just about all but the PT Cruiser (Toluca, Mexico) and minivan (Fenton, Missouri and Ontario) plants - perhaps inventories are building and Daimler plans to temporarily halt production at the van plants as well, or perhaps they're having production problems ramping the new models.
To top it off, when I signed the purchase agreement there was $97.50 added for dealer prep. I told the salesman that they could find the money to pay for washing the car in the $640 destination charge. After a brief staredown puncutated by gathering up my belongings he removed the charge. The look on my wifes' face was unforgetable.
There was nothing I could do about the loyalty reward, as this is my first Dodge vehical. But it sounds as though we both got good deals. Enjoy your new ES AWD (if you really did buy one?).
Side note about the rear organizer, my wife called the 1 800 dodge number, and they are due out in January. It looks like a pretty neat feature. At least from what the video that came with my van showed.
deciding between ES AWD
with 29"S" pkg. or a
T & C LXI...did your
ES AWD come with 17"
tires? I want 16" after reading the posts
here on the pros and
cons. Are the 17" an
option or standard?
Thanks for help...
bettyg
My understanding is that the ES non-AWD 29S package includes 17" wheels and the touring suspension. In other words, AWD makes a difference in what's on the ES.
I suspect this is the same situation with the T&C, but I can't speak with first-hand knowledge.
I recall seeing one of the car configuration web sites (I think it was KBB) indicating that ES AWD 29S had the 17" wheels, but that is incorrect, I believe.
FWIW, my vehicle, when unloaded, rides pretty stiffly. I presume this is due to the heavy duty suspension that is part of the trailer towing option. However, I find it no problem whatsoever, and expect it to be even better with a load of gear or passengers. Also, I really like the cornering -- virtually no sway whatsoever, no oversteering. Fun to drive!
--rolfe.
Just kidding. I know your mother didn't do that to you.
Hope you didn't read my post as being distrustful of you -- I was referring to my dealer.
Yes, my real name is Rolfe, and yes, I did buy an ES AWD. (And I thought *I* was distrustful :-)
Sounds like you got a terrific deal. Congratulations.
--rolfe.
I reached a price agreement with my dealer on a Dodge ES AWD with specific options in Sept. He told me that AWD's are only built at two points in time during the model year, and that the next build would be in early 2001. Thus, if I didn't take one that was a close approximation from his inventory or pipeline, I'd not see my vehicle until March.
I checked and discovered that there were AWD constraints only on two colors (not mine), so I insisted they order it, which they did. It was built approx 10 days later and arrived exactly 30 days after the initial order.
--rolfe.