Older Honda Accords

mrbill1957 · October 2005

I agree with the previous posts. Honda started building just 4 cyl cars, and are some of the best in the market. There is a foreign auto repair shop near where I live. The guy running the shop is a former Honda master mechanic that decided to go out on his own. He swears by Honda 4 cyl engines, and swears at the 6cyl engines. Although he admits that he doesn't have an opinion on the current 6 cyl design, he said that he has seen too many problems with the older ones. His other comment was the HP of the engines have been increasing every year, but his opinion was the transmissions are not keeping up with the added HP. With a 4 cyl, you can't push the car as much as you can with a 6 cyl, so you can't strain the trans as much.

My purchase was the 4 cyl as well, YES the 4cyl uses a chain, and the 6 cyl uses a belt. A chain should last the life of the engine, where the belt has to be changed at regular intervals.

Mrbill

richards38 · October 2005

Mamamia2: mrbill1957 answered your question about the timing chain correctly. His other remarks are worth noting, too. Test drive both the 4 and V6--it's unlikely you "need" a V6.

Unless you're hauling heavy loads, the 4 should be more than fast enough to drive safely anywhere. The Accord's 4 is probably the best 4 cylinder engine commercially avaliable. It's as fast as most V8 sedans were 30 years ago and as fast as most V6 sedans were 10 years ago. As for smoothness, you won't believe it's a four--it's THAT good

........Richard

midnightcowboy · October 2005

LOL

":YES the 4cyl uses a chain, and the 6 cyl uses a belt. A chain should last the life of the engine, where the belt has to be changed at regular intervals.

Mrbill"

The "regular interval" for the belt change is 105,000 miles. To make interval plural would be more than 1 change equalling 300,000 miles

YMMV,

MidCow

midnightcowboy · October 2005

Agree the I4 has good power. However realize that the V6 only has a penalty of 10% in mileage, 4 miles per gallon, 30 versus 34.

And the V6 does come with more features, abiet at a higher cost.

It depends on the person's budget and the features they want.

cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,

MidCow

mrbill1957 · October 2005

The "regular interval" for the belt change is 105,000 miles. To make interval plural would be more than 1 change equalling 300,000 miles

I'm puzzled on your math, 1st change 105K, 2nd change 300K? What about changing it at 210K?

I agree, most people will most likely have a diferent car by then.

Mrbill

haefr · October 2005

You're correct to question that statement. There's no such thing as a permanent anything. Chains, though generally significantly longer lasting, stretch and have been known to break, too - with consequences every bit as catastrophic as those due to broken timing belts. Even when chains don't break, their tensioners do wear out at about the same interval as belt tensioners - which in simple terms means expense on par at about the same intervals as belt replacements to change out a more expensive part with equivalent timing belt replacement labor charges. There ain't no free lunch.

nls · October 2005

Just got the timing chains, tensioner, guides, and of course a whole bunch of gaskets replaced on my 2000 Mazda MPV at a cost of $2K, even though it only had 85000 miles. The problem was the tensioners, which totally failed, causing the chains to start rattling and making a lot of noise. Eventually they would have slipped, and caused major engine damage. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the van will last without any other major problems long enough to justify the repair cost!

mamamia2 · October 2005

...So to go back to the original question...

Don't you think that for a driver who drives 250 miles A DAY --- that's some 70,000 miles A YEAR... wouldn't you buy a 6 cyl. car, v.s. a 4 cyl. one?

I know I would....

stickguy · October 2005

In the Accord, a 4 cyl EX-L

mrbill1957 · October 2005

I agree that timing chains can fail, and do fail. Do a search on a Chrysler 2.7 Litre engine, they are dropping like flies with failing timing chain. But if you read why, it seems to be traced back to a design flaw.

Timing chains are designed to hopefully last the life of the engine, otherwise there would be a scheduled replacement listed in your manual. To everything, there will always be exceptions, and yes, there will be some chains that fail. Bearings, rings, camshafts, you name it on an engine, you will find failures.

Mrbill

avianflu · October 2005

Less than 2K miles and we already have two dings and a 6 inch scratch on the front bumper. Can it really be this delicate? White seems to show everything. This morning a truck in front dropped a dirt clod and a piece bounced up and bingo. Pulled into a parking place and just bearly touched the wall and bingo. Give me back the old chrome bumpers.

What is this Accord going to look like after 3 yrs & 36,000 miles when we attempt to turn it back at the end of the lease period. If they are this delicate, Honda should make color keyed factory replacements bumpers that can easily be bolted on for less than $250.

allfiredup · October 2005

Just FYI, the Accord 4-cylinder does have more than adequate acceleration. 0-60 for the 5-speed manual had been clocked as low as 7.5 seconds (MT, 2003 EX) and automatic has been at 9.0 seconds (CR, 2003 EX).

The V6 is a luxury item in my book (I'm sure many will disagree). The real benefit is the additional torque.

mrbill1957 · October 2005

My 04 Accord is also white, has >7000 mi and I have not seen any problems with the paint on the front bumper, and believe me, I'm picky.

There has been posts before with complaints with the paint on the bumper, if I remember right, Honda stood by it.

Does the paint not seem to be holding? Could you literally pick it off with your fingernail? Paint should have some flex to it, so it doesn't peel off from a slight impact. It could be an adhesion problem. If you can demonstrate this to the dealer, it would go a long way to having them stand behind it.

Mrbill

caedward2 · October 2005

Just curious as to where this vehicle was manufactured? If it's other than Marysville or Japan, it could be quality control problems. I've been curious as to the quality coming from the Mexico plant.

haefr · October 2005

So what exactly is your point? I stated succinctly in my opening sentence that timing chains are generally significantly longer lived than timing belts. My point was that the ancillary equipment that maintains chain tension is subject to wear just as its counterpart is in belt-equipped engines. By the way, when a chain does break in service, the results aren't pretty. There's often severe damage from the flailing pieces to engine front components, sprockets, etc. even if the engine is a non-interference design in which pistons cannot contact open valves. About engine component "scheduled replacements" - water pumps rarely make it through an engine's service life, but I've never come across an owner's manual that indicated a scheduled replacement interval on them, either. The perfect engine would run 500,000+ trouble-free miles and then totally disintegrate to a fine powder. It hasn't been built yet.

gcooley · October 2005

I found the same to be true with my 2001 Accord, the paint is very delicate. On my next car I would consider the clear 3M film. I never tailgate and actually try and keep extra distance for this reason, its very frustateing if you care at all about such things.

benjaminh · October 2005

My 02 Accord 4 cylinder has a 2.3 liter SOHC VTEC engine with 150 hp. I picked up a brochure for the 06 Accord, and it has a 2.4 liter DOHC i-VTEC engine with 166 hp. I understand how a bigger engine can make it more powerful, but would someone be willing to explain to me (as someone who likes cars but doesn't actually know all that much about how they really work) the difference between a single overhead camshaft and a double? Also, what's the difference between an 02 VTEC and and 06 i-VTEC?

Thanks

haefr · October 2005

Most SOHC engines have two valves per cylinder, DOHC engines have four valves per cylinder for enhanced intake and extraction efficiency. Late Honda SOHC engines were cleverly designed to operate four valves per cylinder through some tricky geometry allowing two valves to "share" each camshaft lobe. They achieved largely the same intake and extraction efficiency as DOHC head designs with only one camshaft, one set of camshaft bearings, and one timing sprocket per cylinder head. I believe Honda's original VTEC were a two stage design (either normal valve activation or press-yer-spine against the seatback on all-out acceleration - the transition from normal to altered timing and lift happened abruptly at a certain engine speed) I think i-VTEC is an advanced intelligently, continuously variable valve timing and lift design. Honda may not have written the book on cylinder head design, but its engineers consistently edit and punctuate to good effect.

mrbill1957 · October 2005

Let me add,

Engines will gain HP if they can "breathe" better. Adding a second set of valves allows more air/fuel to enter the cylinders every 4th stroke (easier air flow), which in turn, gives more HP.

Other ways of doing this would be to add a turbo or supercharger.

Mrbill

bmr123 · October 2005

I just purchased a 05 Accord EX-V6 model. I previously owned a 00 Accord EX-V6.
The issue that I'm having is that when I try to start the vehicle it does like 3 "clicks" before the engine starts. My previous 00 accord v6 even after 115k miles never did this. It would start automatically as I turn the key with no clicking noise. Is this normal or unusual? Other than that I don't notice any issues with speed or performance issues, just some interior noise. Thank you

mamamia2 · October 2005

You know, owning an Accord, reading messages here, some horror stories here.... Boy, you get the impression that we, Honda owners, must have made a grave mistake, we own a car that's got LOTS of problems... A Lemon tree....

So take a few minutes, go check OTHER boards.... Camry, anyone?...

rcinmd · October 2005

Regarding your question as to the difference between a SOHC engine, and a DOHC.....

In a SOHC, one camshaft actuates both intake and exhaust valves, regardless as to whether it is a two valve cylinder head, or a 4 valve. As an example, my Alfa Romeo GTV6, which is a V6, is a SOHC. There are two camshafts since it is a V layout, but each camshaft operates both intake and exhaust valves on that bank.

In a DOHC, there is a separate cam for intake valves, and a separate cam for exhaust valves. My Fiat Spider, an inline 4 cylinder, is a DOHC, since there are two cams, one for intake, and one for exhaust. If an engine is a DOHC V configuration, there will be four camshafts.

djm2 · October 2005

Honda makes quality vehicles, but as a company they need to listen to their customer base more than they are doing, at the present time. There is room for improvement! ------- Here are some examples: 1.) The replacement parts system needs to be improved at the dealership level. I waited two weeks for a new AC compressor this summer. WhiIe I didn't have to pay anything for the service, because I have an extended warranty on the vehicle, I think that two weeks for a part is not acceptable. 2.) The Automatic Transmission Issue on the V6 Honda should never have occured. (Enough said on that subject!) 3.) Attention to passenger comfort needs to be a top priority on the new vehicles that are in the planning stage of development. I have an Accord with leather seats, and on a long trip it is uncomfortable. The bottom area of the seat needs more padding. The seats are TOO HARD! 4.) There are blind spots on the Accord. a.) On the driver's outside mirror, ----and ---- b.) On the two "A" pillars when looking left and right at an intersection. Do I basically like the Accord? ------YES! -----Would I purchase another Accord? -----YES! -------The reason is simple. If you take the time to do a search on the other name plates, you will see that the issues with the Honda Vehicles are small compared to other manufacturers. Other manufacturers have electrical problems, transmission problems, steering problems and engine problems. In addition, the Honda vehicles hold their value and this is VERY important when it comes time to trade - in or sell privately. ----- Dwayne

blane · October 2005

djm2,

I'd like to address your above numbered concerns:

1) Could the replacement A/C compressor issue that you mentioned be related to your SPECIFIC dealer? I have a hard time believing that they couldn't try to locate the part in a more expeditious manner.

2) A/T issue... we are in total agreement.

3) I believe that your hard seats concern is subjective. My 2004 Accord Coupe has leather seats and I find them to be extremely comfortable and not at all hard... unless compared to what I consider to be too-soft domestic vehicle seats.

4) I believe that your concerns about blind spots may be due to; a.) mirror adjustments should be related to the position of your head. There have been discussions here about recommended methods to provide great visibility with maximum convenience. b.) The "A" pillars have to be a bit wider than they were years ago. After all, that's where the side curtain airbags are stored, and from where they are deployed in case of an accident.

djm2 · October 2005

Blane
Thank you for the "come-back" on the issues. Please be advised that the AC Compressors were on back order throughout the United States this summer! This is poor planing on the part of Honda, and it could have been avoided. They manufacture a GREAT product, but they fail at the small support issues. AC parts should be available during the Summer Months. It is that simple, and Honda has to take the hit on this issue! My dealer is outstanding, and it is this professional service that will keep me buying Honda Vehicles. I also own a Ford Mustang as a fun car. ------------Dwayne

joe122 · October 2005

"3) I believe that your hard seats concern is subjective. My 2004 Accord Coupe has leather seats and I find them to be extremely comfortable and not at all hard... unless compared to what I consider to be too-soft domestic vehicle seats."

I find it interesting that over the last year, I have read many posts from Honda owners (and their family members) who state that the seats are uncomfortable. They often further state that they did not notice the problem during the test drive. [I have also read professional reviews that mention "hard seats", noticeable after 30 minutes of driving.] The forum member responses are always the same and one or more of these three:

1. You are the only one who feels this way; everyone else thinks the seats are very comfortable. We're tired of these posts, it's time to move on.
2. Give the seats time; they will soften up.
...and my favorite:
3. That is entirely subjective and therefore not a warranty issue.

mamamia2 · October 2005

Yes, the seats ARE hard, very hard. Certainly compared to my old '95 Accord with leather seats....

Maybe it IS a matter of time for them to soften?

johnxyz · October 2005

I'm interested in the '06 LX V6 or less expensive LX SE 4 cyl. (with the 4-wheel disc brakes). Have any of you guys seen these models on lots? Are they hard to find? Numbers manufactured annually?

Do EX V6 manufactured volumes completely overrun the LX-V6 figures?

I believe I read in an earlier post that ISELLHONDAS stated he never sells any LX V6's (the LX SE is a new model this year).

Thanks alot, John

cyberscout · October 2005

Hi all,

First time post. My wife and I will be picking up our 2006 Accord EX-L this weekend and we are wondering if it's possible to rewire the provided XM to Sirus. We currently have a subscription to Sirus and I'd hate to have to use two different satelite services. Our sales guy said the only way would be to use one of those units that broadcasts an FM signal that you then tune in with you receiver...Any other ideas? Thanks in advance.

-cs

pa_rs · October 2005

I have narrowed my car choice down to an accord 4 cyl but I am undecided between the automatic/manual trans. e there any significant performance differences or reliability issues between the two types?
Does anybody have the 0-60 data for the two models?
It seems the V6 trans has the bigger problems.
Feel free to refer me to prev posts.
Is anyone aware of suspensions differences between the LX and the EX?
thanks

johnxyz · October 2005

I'm trying to decide btw a 4 cyl and 6 cyl and have read that the Honda I4 should always be ordered w/ a MT. Some guys have stated that Honda designed/tuned the 4 specifically for the 5 or 6 sp Honda manual transmissions (JDM, the rest of Asia and Europe). The 4cyl and AT is typically limited to the US market.

I want an AT (city traffic) so should I only consider the V6 in the Accord? I realize this question is bordering on a very obtuse (vague) generality but is there any hard engineering facts behind this assumption?

Thanks, John

stickguy · October 2005

the 5 speed stick in the Accord is a very nice piece, and really makes the car feel lively. But, the 4 cyl with an AT has plenty of pep, and gets good mielage to boot. I don't see any reason to move up to a V6 just because you are getting an automatic, especially for city driving!

Besides, the majority of Accords (and Camrys) are sold with the 4 cyl AT powertrain.

blane · October 2005

I wouldn't expect the seats to "soften up". After all they were specifically designed with that degree of support.

Have you ever driven a good German vehicle? You would probably think that you were sitting on a plank if you consider the Accord seats too firm.

blane · October 2005

johnxyz,

You will find that both the I4 and V6 Accords perform admirably with either an MTX or ATX.

While a manual transmission may be more fun to drive, the VAST majority of sedans in the Accord/Camry market segment are sold with automatic transmissions. When the time comes to either sell or trade your Accord sedan, you will take a very big hit on the amount of money that you can recoup. You will also find it much harder to find a buyer.

That was my experience with my '90 Accord.

haefr · October 2005

"Please be advised that the AC Compressors were on back order throughout the United States this summer! This is poor planing on the part of Honda, and it could have been avoided."

Several points to ponder:
1> Like many subassemblies, A/C copmpressors are sourced outside the company. There might've been supply bottlenecks beyond Honda's control.
2> Summer would logically be the season when replacement compressors are in highest demand.
3> Combine points one and two.

But I feel your pain - I, too, am totally addicted to July-September frostbite - fuel mileage be hanged! (even at ~$3.00/gallon)

allfiredup · October 2005

The best 0-60 numbers I've seen for the 4-cylinder Accord are-

Manual EX Sedan - 7.5 seconds (Motor Trend, 2/03)
Auto EX-L Coupe - 8.6 seconds (Consumer Guide website)

Hope the info helps.

mamamia2 · October 2005

The '05 manual says 87 or higher. Forget about gas prices for a minute... Is there ANY reason, ANY improvement in ANY aspect, for me to consider using a higher octane than 87 (Shell gas only) on my V6?

...May I add that if I have an issue with this car, it is the slight, but noticeable "BZZZZZ" kind of VIBRATIONS I sometimes feel (and my daughter mentioned it too, sitting in the back) when accelerating... Especially noticeable when in very SLOW, stop-n-go traffic...

Would a higher octane correct it?

haefr · October 2005

Try a tankful. (What've you got to lose besides ~$3.40?) I doubt running even 91 octane will influence the mystery buzz. (I'd be more inclined to suspect a resonance of some of the exhaust system's sheet metal heat shields.) The higher octane theoretically would allow the ignition mapping in the ECU's ROM to run more ignition advance without pinging, but at most it'd only make a marginal 2 or 3 hp. difference where the rubber meets the road - and at that, only near the engine's redline.

joe122 · October 2005

Now Blane, you have really hit on it. I have a friend who recently test drove a very expensive Mercedes. He was astonished at how hard and uncomfortable the seats were. He and his wife said it was like sitting on concrete boxes.

pa_rs · October 2005

7.5 sec sounds fantastic. Twenty years ago you'd be talking porsche type cars to get these kind of numbers.

Actually my wife wants the manual because it's cheaper (can you believe that?). I am tired of shifting in traffic and I would prefer the automatic. But then again I might miss the shifting after awhile, and that's the only kind of exercise I am getting these days.

I will have to drive both and see.

richards38 · October 2005

Absolutely not! M/T likely to be more fun for people who like to shift, but for the shiftless among us, the Accord's 5-speed A/T is excellent. It always seems to be in the correct gear at the correct time and the grade-logic feature works well. It's also fast enough--I can always go faster than it's safe to go in my '04 EX-L sedan with A/T. Try one and you'll see.........Richard

whitecloud1 · October 2005

I agree with joe122 and others about the seats. I know people who have been complaining for years about the newer Cadillacs and Buicks having uncomfortable seats. It seems to me to be about what you're used to. I've driven other cars and the Accord seats are certainly no harder. They are more narrow than the cars some people are used to driving.
One thing for sure; the seats were hard on the test drive too. Most people know how the seats feel B4 they close the deal.

imidazol97 · October 2005

Don't know what you mean about Buicks and Cadillacs having uncomfortable seats. I have an 03 and 98 LeSabre. Both have been _very_ comfortable. The 98 seats are cloth, the 03 leather with lumbar adjustable support.

I've tested and ridden in several Cadillacs. A local used dealer keeps 10-15 large Cadillacs and I bounce through them sitting and occasionally test driving. I haven't found any uncomfortable.

The generalization doesn't wash.

whitecloud1 · October 2005

No generalization was made. Cadillacs and Buicks have several models. I'm merely stating what I've heard from others over at least the last 5 years. They were all previous owners of Cadillacs and Buicks too.

tom68 · October 2005

I would try a different brand of gas. I've always had problems with Shell-pinging,etc- and my brother gave up using Shell in his company vehicles because of problems.Of course, I also had problems with Arco, until they merged with Texaco and started using their additives. Most raw gasoline is the same, the tanker driver usually adds his companies additives when he (or she) picks up the gas at the tank farm or terminal..

blane · October 2005

mamamia2,

Don't waste your money on higher than specified, by the vehicle manufacturer, octane gasoline. Your engine is designed to operate on 87 octane regular gasoline. It probably costs about 20¢ less per gallon too. That adds up over the course of a year of driving.

For the past forty years of driving numerous vehicles (see profile) I have found that the least expensive no-name stations' regular fuel performs exactly the same as the much higher priced national brands. Also, you can be pretty confident that 87 octane fuel has not been "watered down" or diluted. That is often a concern with higher octane fuel, where an unscrupulous gas station owner might have some percentage of regular poured into a tank marked premium. There's lots of profit in that trick.

roberts5 · October 2005

On a recent trip to SC (455 miles) in my 03 Accord I4 auto, I got 40 mpg averaging around 70 mph on Shell gasoline. It appears to be geared lower than the 5-speed manual at cruisinhg speed. I rarely hear of anybody with a V-6 get over 30 mpg. Guess what it will do if you hold it closer to 60 mph? I have too heavy a foot to know.
Happy Hondaring!

richards38 · October 2005

Did you check mileage accurately by measuring miles driven divided by gallons used? The Accord I4 delivers great gas mileage, but no 40 mpg unless you had a strong tail wind or the road was descending.

go_car_go1 · October 2005

I am buying my wife a 2006 V-6 Accord. We have a baby due in December. Right now she is driving an old Corolla. She doesn't care if it is the LX or EX. Does anyone think either version would be better with baby, car seats and all?

Thanks

pqpq3 · October 2005

The owner's manual does not mention anything about oil change interval. All it says is the onboard computer will tell you when the oil change is due. The owner's link from Honda's web site says 6,250 mile interval.

I noticed someone was mentioning about 10,000 oil change interval and the debate. Does 06 model changed the spec? Or, I missed something from the manual?

Also, sales rep did show me Owner's manual for Piliot. It says 10,000 mile interval, and "Honda added special addictives to the engine oil, do not change oil too early...". I don't see such statement on 06 Accord Owner's manual either...

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