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Comments
They no longer do this. Their studies indicated that ABS had not reduced the number of accidents or claims.
And, I also have some customers who dislike ABS because of longer stopping distances on dry pavement.
-Craig
I think too many are miseducated about the purpose of ABS. Maybe dealers should be responsible for emphasizing the fact that ABS was designed to maintain steering control in severe braking situations.
whatever the case, I drive in enough rain and snow and slick roads to have had ABS engage many times in the past 4 years. Even if it only ACTUALLY saved my [non-permissible content removed] in 5% of those situations, I still find it invaluable.
Honda did right by making it standard on even the DX Accords with the redesign, and they should be commended. Obviously, there arent THAT many consumers who are so ANTI-ABS that they wont buy the product- the Accord may very well top the Camry as best selling car this year.
~alpha
They told me this is normal for the Accord with the 2.4 engine. We also looked at a new Accord on their lot and it was the same. After owning 86', 92', 98', 01' Civic, with NO vibration in the steering wheel I was a bit disappointed with our Accord. I guess we will have to live with it.
I asked the dealer to check for TSB, but couldn't find anything.
I also have a 2000 Forester with 2.5 liter 4-cylinder and it has no vibration problem. I know my old Civics and the Forester have different engines, but the vibration is not acceptable this this type of vehicle.
Isn't it amazing how some techs can't see the same problems you can-particularly on warranty issues.
Does the warranty automatically transfer with the title change or do I need to notify Honda of the ownership change to be covered by the warranty?
Thanks
I will be taking a 2nd test-drive of the 03 Accord (LX 4 cyl) over the weekend and will update you.
Interesting--I test-drove a Subaru Impreza WRX wagon yesterday and felt that it vibrated a lot as well. Is that a Japanese make characteristic? I do 80% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic, so I am stopped a LOT. The vibration is not only in the wheel but throughout the car, I did not like the "buzzing" on my body. I think it would be fatiguing.
When I got back and mentioned it, the salesman said, "It's because (1) it's a new car and (2) it's cold." Is he right? Posters have mentioned maybe looking at V6 engines instead, could that make a difference? I'm sure there are folks who don't notice this at all or aren't bothered by it, but I have a medical problem that is bothered by it. Is my only hope something like a Buick? :-D Actually I had a Buick Regal many years ago, cherry red, stolen and never recovered... sniff...
Most ABS systems would kick in at that point and quickly pump the brakes. Since it's action is against the optimal stopping method, braking distances are increased (slightly).
But this is for only the most skilled "race car" drivers within a controlled environment. Throw in potholes, sand, etc. and all bets are off.
-Craig
As a matter of fact Caddy also crossed my mind! No docks around here big enough, though. I'd have to go about an hour away to Annapolis.
Rear-wheel drive, FWD, American, Japanese/Lexus, 4-cyl, 6-cyl, 8-cyl - all except a standard delivery van (!) made him feel bad.
Which leads me to believe that 1) very few cars, and probably expensive at that, can answer the need, and 2) with a regular car, a combination of various "vibration management" measures might work, such as a quiet/serene vehicle to start with (hate to say it - Camry ?), smooth-riding tires, and - how about an electronic noise-cancelling device (hooks up to car's audio system to create white or counter-acting noise).
It's probably NOT your imagination. Honda (and many other manufacturers') engines have "knock" sensors. Think of them as microphone-like devices screwed into the engine block. Their output goes to the engine management computer. When the sharp noise of engine pinging is first detected by the computer, it retards spark advance to compensate. That elliminates pinging before you ever hear it and the engine will operate safely even on regular grade gasoline. (If you check the engine specifications, compression ratios are in the high nines to mid tens - heretofore ALWAYS premium gasoline turf) The knock sensors/engine management computers algorithms WILL, however, always set spark advance to the farthest advance consistent with elliminating pinging, though. Therefore, if you fill the tank with unleaded premium, the spark advance will be advanced as much as possible, always consistent with holding pinging in check. This further spark advance possible with unleaded premium will result in a noticeable difference in engine power. Your engine is effectively constantly tuning itself according to fuel quality, ambient conditions, and driving habits. Enjoy the extra power from unleaded premium! (as long as you don't mind the extra 20 cents a gallon or so...)
http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020829.html
Does anyone know if Honda intends to offer this service in the US anytime soon? It sounds like one of the first systems to integrate the power of the Internet with the Navi system's LCD display. The article indicates that the user can use Inter-navi to acquire and display images, E-mail, weather, and variety of other information.
Since I never travel on roads with which I'm unfamiliar, it's a bit hard to justify the Navi System based upon voice control of the radio, CD, and HVAC. If however some Internet sites and E-mail were accessible within the next couple of years the Navi System would become a good deal more valuable.
There are some scenarios where you might be able to stop in a shorter distance by skidding without ABS (such as on loose snow or gravel), but on dry pavement, I don't see it happening. There is no way to know exactly what the edge of lockup is without ABS. If you practiced with the car dozens of times, you might get a general idea on that stretch of road, but you cannot be sure. Either you aren't pressing hard enough or you press a little too hard and you skid.
Anything is POSSIBLE. There are scenarious where you MIGHT be better off without seatbelts in a crash (such as being thrown free of a 2003 Honda Accord that was about to explode into flames).
The one exception I've heard is the Camry, which also has a 2.4L 4cyl now. This is not first hand info, because I have never owned a Toyota. I just noticed in reading other threads that this complaint never seems to come up with this vehicle. Maybe you should give it a drive.
I've heard others state that you do give up some handling for the comfort, but you should decide this for yourself.
The people who notice this vibration the most are those stepping up from smaller cars with smaller displacement 4's (under 2.0L) and those stepping down from V6's and V8's.
I've owned quite a few large 4's,(some Honda, some not) and all have had vibration to some extent when equipped with automatic trans and idling at a stop with the AC on.
But as soon as that light changes and RPMs rise, the Accords 4's feel like "butta" and handle very nimbly. At interstate speeds you can hardly hear them. Good luck with your choice.
mike1qaz
I used to have 1997 Civic LX and I was able to install the cargo net, by popping out a few plastic tabs and inserting the hooks in the same spot. The tabs were kind of difficult to get off, but it wasn't complicated at all and did not require removing anything else such as the trunk floor.
I wonder why they made it so involved on the new Accord?
Look at a 2003 Honda Accord EXV6 bought for a little over invoice ($24000) plus tax and license (about $2000 in CA) for a total financed amount of about $26000.00 Finance the entire $26,000 for 60 months with zero down at 5% and you have a monthly payment of $490.65 and the loan balance would be $16370.95 after the 24th payment is made, then compare that to the monthly cost of a 24 month lease with $0 down and 15K miles allowed and see which is cheaper. A 2001 EXV6 with 30K miles and in excellent condition easily sells to a private party today for more than than the $16370.95 loan balance you would have on the 2003 Accord in 2 years and I don't see any $0 down 15K mile per year 24 month leases going for under $490.65 including all taxes and fees anywhere.
So, how would a lease be cheaper even if you want to change cars every 2 years?
Looks like I am going to have to buy one as a commuter car.
Honda missed the boat on this issue. I don't understand how they could offer curtains only on the EXV6 model. Doesn't make any sense.
Being a "daddy" myself, safety is my main concern. There are way too many gas guzzling, road hogging SUVs out there. Imagine getting t-boned by one.
I would love to love the Accord EX-L, 4 cyl, 5 speed manual. I just can't give up curtain airbags, side mirror defrosters, and illuminated steering wheel controls that my '02 Passat 1.8T GLS give me. But I would love that nifty Nav system.
-Craig
As for leasing, most people do it for 3 years, not 2. Let's look at two people, one buying and the other leasing. The buyer pays $500 a month for 5 years and keeps the car for an additional 4 years. The other guy leases the car for 3 years for $400 a month. After that, he leases 2 more cars for 3 years each. After 9 years, the buyer spent $30000. The guy who leased spent $43,200 in those same 9 years. This assumes the buyer had no major repairs after the 3 year warranty expired. So from a money standpoint, the guy who leases is losing a lot of money, but he's obviously decided that the benefits are worth the extra money. I like to lease cause you'll always have a car that's relatively new, you can afford to get a much nicer car than you could if you were buying, you never have to worry about you car not being under warranty assuming your lease is the same length, and after the lease is up, you can still buy the car if you want. And if you took really good care of the car and kept the miles low, then the car will be worth more than what you have to pay for it. You could buy it, then sell it, make a profit, and use it as a down payment on the next car.
Of course I got the MapQuest/MapBlast directions, directions from the Four Seasons web site, etc. just in case all the "Big Dig" crap going on in Boston screwed the Nav up.
I just plugged in the address, and it took is exactly to the front door of our destination. It does NOT compare to a map, as it warns miles ahead of time of turns, exactly where one is in relation to an intersection, and voice prompts on upcoming landmarks. Maps also don't show where restaurants ("show me all the Indian restaurants in the area"), ATMs, gas stations, etc. are.
These Nav systems will backfire once you hit "rural" areas or "new developments". They'll take you to within a few miles of your destination, and then say "Sorry. There isn't detailed info of this area. Sucks to be you."
Maps are good if you want to see "the big picture", as a relatively small 6 inch screen will not give you that. And as a backup to Nav systems in rural or new areas.
I hear Honda's Nav system is pretty good, as it's been improved since I last looked at it and now inclueds voice recongnition. Our comparison was from an '01 MDX. I preferred the Lexus Nav to that one (easier to control, better graphics, more points of interest, etc).
-Craig
There goes THAT theory...
-Craig
Bottom line...it's a Honda! It's not a Lexus or a Mercedes. People seem to have a lot of "wants" along with their "needs".
Of course I never thought I would see things like heated seats, nav systems and side curtain air bags either in a Honda.
They just try to please the masses while keeping the cars affordable.
I had similar concerns about nav and started a thread for portable nav alternative to Accord Nav:
"03 Accord Nav vs Aftermarket GPS/Nav....?!" at
daeven "03 Accord Nav vs Aftermarket GPS/Nav....?!" Feb 18, 2003 11:16am
The huge advantage of nav system whether Honda OEM or the PDA+GPS+Software approach I am taking is "autorouting and rerouting". You can route door to door trips and the system gets you there even if you deviate from the original route (auto rerouting).
The advantage to the PDA solution is portability, cost and early adoption of new features. In the near future real time traffic info will be figured into the routing-reroute planning. The software I use, Mapopolis, has a teaser about introducing this in first quarter 03:
http://www.mapopolis.com/traffic-11-18-02.pdf
-Craig
Funny. My base model VW has two of the three. And also has heated side mirrors.
-Craig