Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
I'd have them check it out and make sure they actually used glue.
-Craig
The heated mirror thing has never made sense. They offer it on Acura but not on Honda. They offer it in Canada but if you live in Minnesota, you don't get it. Does Honda think heated mirrors are a luxury item? Toyota, Volkswagon, and all the other Honda competitors offer it. Is Honda just being cheap?
I don't think they really "WANT" to keep the car for 3 years, they just decided that the payments were too high for 24 month leases.
I like changing my cars very frequently. I thought that was supposed to be an advantage of leasing.
People say that if you want to keep a car for a long time, you buy, but if you like frequent changes, then leasing is always better. This does not appear to be true if you want to change cars every 2 years.
So it looks like if you want a new car very frequently (every 2 years), then buying and reselling is cheaper in the case above.
Heated mirrors are a market requirement in Canada IMHO - not so in the US. How many people complain about useless heated seats - probably the same number that would complain about useless heated mirrors.
It may help to know there's someone else out there in the same situation. I am also shopping and also like the Accord and 6. I believe there is a thread on Edmunds that discusses that in depth. What may come down for Honda is that it is not in its first year, and there is more dealer competition/wiggle room in my area.
Thanks to everyone who has been giving me comments about vibration in Hondas (msg 9210). I am indeed "wired" differently about sensory things, which has its downside (e.g., noise and vibration can REALLY bother me, and I must wear sunglasses indoors at times from light effects) and its upside (e.g., in the arts). But "harmonic vibrations" (Benny)? I don't think so! <L!>
We are hunkering down for yet another snowstorm in the Northeast. And I can guarantee you that a lot of people (at least around DC) will not slow down.
Be safe!
Tuneful
They don't always want to pay the price though.
And I know some people might buy another make such as a Volkswagen simply because of something stupid (to me)like the color of the dash lights or because Honda's steering wheel controls don't light up. Things I don't give a twit about are important to others.
This is why cars evolve I suppose.
And the prices keep going up...
One question only have 300 miles so far, has anyone else sensed sensitivity in brakes and acceleration in the vehicle. Brakes seem to go on all at once. And the acceleration does the same thing doesn't seem very smooth either direction. Has anyone one else experienced anything like this.
As for heated mirrors - I used them quite frequently. I don't think people know what they do. It isn't just to melt snow/ice (which happened quite often this winter here in the Northeast). It also defogs that mist/fog on humid mornings during the summer, and also drys them after it rains.
Since Honda already engineered them for the Canada market, why not offer them as an option in the US? They engineered curtain airbags for the EXV6 - why not offer it as an option on other models?
I understand they want to differentiate models from each other via available options (no Nav on DX, LX, or EX without leather), but curtain airbags is a safety issue that should be at least offered across the line. Personally, it turns me off to the particular model I would choose (EX-L, 4 cyl w/Nav).
I also understand they want to simplify the building process, but it's also a revenue stream they're losing out on. Plus they could market the heck out of the fact that they offer curtains across the entire line (like VW does). Ever take a look at a GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicle option list. Holy Schmoly. Now THAT is confusing and I'm sure doesn't make it economic to build.
-Craig
I'm sure it does, but how much?
My guess is that production costs aren't too different, but the average level of equipment sold on each vehicle goes up. Basically, people end up paying for stuff they wouldn't have otherwise, and that helps profits.
Nonetheless, does anyone have some actual data?
Ehem.
Just because:
A. You don't know how to use heated mirrors, or
B. You don't live in a climate that needs them
doesn't mean that no one else does. The entire north 1/3 of the country could easily benefit from them. Honda put them in the Canada Accords. Why couldn't they put them in the US Accords, at least as an option?
Oh, and Honda offers Auto Transmission, Navigation (on EX-L and EXV6 only), curtain air bags (on EXV6 only), and side air bags (LX 4 cyl only) from the factory, not including the mirade of other options dealer installed, such as the MP3 player, 8 disc CD changer, fender wall stuff, mud guards, floor mats, etc.
Again, I wanted to like the Accord. I was thinking about trading in the Passat for one (to get the Nav system). But these key features turned me off.
-Craig.
I'm just complaining that Honda should've included the side curtain airbags in at least the EX model since that model is also one that includes a lot of "unnecessary features" to most people. But I also think that including it along with the SAB option for a slightly higher price is good too since people who want SAB are the ones who also don't mind paying for the additional safety features. The Mazda6 has the SAB and side curtains as one package that can be added as an option to any trim level.
The fewer variations on an assembly line the cheaper and more reliable the assembly. It makes more sense that way.
On the other hand, the lighted steering wheel controls issue is such a trivial thing, that I am shocked to see someone post that that cannot live without them and turned down buying an Accord because the steering wheel controls didn't light up??!! It is not as if you need lights to adjust the steering wheel audio and cruise buttons. The controls are not that complicated.
Thanks for any input.
Let me quote:
The fewer variations on an assembly line the cheaper and more reliable the assembly. It makes more sense that way.
So if the assembly plants is tooled to include them in Canada, wouldn't it be cheaper and more reliable, in your eyes, to also include them in the US?
s852:
I didn't say that I wouldn't buy an Accord because of lighted steering wheel control. But it's something I'd be giving up. Concerns againt buying one is because Honda missed key features, such as side curtain airbags and heated side mirrors. I'm almost positive that these will be included in future revisions.
mikek37:
Residual values for 2002:
http://edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/71962/article.html
Who's that in the Mid Size category? Oh. The Passat.
anonymousposts:
VW as a whole is at or below average. Didn't I mentioned something to the effect of "don't include the Mexican and Brazillian Jetta and Beetle"?? The German made Passat is in a totally different class. The Mosel and Emden assembly plants are top notch. It's comparable to the build quaility of the American made ML class vs the S and E class. Same brand, entirely different ratings. Apples and oranges.
Guys (and gals), don't get me wrong. I've owned a few Hondas/Acuras in the past. They're great cars. I never regretted buying one. But it doesn't mean they're the end all/be all. The current Accord is missing key features that other cars have had for years.
Even Edmunds Editor's review has a Con as "missing key features".
There. I'm done.
-Craig
I have been very impressed with Motor Trend as of late. I would prefer straight up rankings in comparison tests, but it seems the quality of the magazine has improved. This comparison test was well focused around a price point/similar drivetrains, and was well-written.
One thing I did find intersting was that the softer Camry actually posted better handling and braking numbers than the Accord. Certainly, in the text, the Camry was knocked for its much less sporting feel, and so I expected better numbers for the Accord.
The Accord, at 8.5 to 60, did outrun both the Camry and Altima (which both posted slower 0-60 numbers than I expected). Motor Trend still doesnt do passing tests, though, which, at least in this class, is important.
And finally, to the point of many on this board, the Accord was the only one in the test without side airbags/side curtains. BUT it was the only one with std. ABS.
~alpha
Outrun - Check Intellichoice and compare ownership costs of the Passat vs. Accord (both are recommended). I like the Passat a lot, but don't know if I'd buy one (that is until I saw they'll offer TDI for '04). If you assume it costs X dollars to build a mid-size sedan, its clear Honda put its money into engineering whereas more of the Passat is in the interior materials. Heck, premium gas alone in a small turbo is enough to scare me off.
Honda isn't big on too many factory options. I don't see them allowing simple things such as heated mirrors as factory options.
Motor Trend - perhaps the changes are a result of David E. Davis running the show now. IMHO, Automobile (which he founded) is one of the finest American car magazines around.
Premium gas is required because it's a high compression engine. One CAN run 87 octane, but the timing will be retarded slightly (less power/mileage).
I disagree that the Passat $$$ isn't spent on engineering. I think it's better engineered than the Accord. The Accord $$$ goes into ergonomics that the masses are used to and engine technology. Funny, but Honda admits that it used the current Passat as something it wants to be. Even their commercials have a German Language CD. Wonder why...
-Craig
The same thing happened in the recent Road and Track and Car and Driver comparos. I haven't seen the MT review yet, so I don't know if it's the case here, but these numbers often tend to go hand and hand with Honda's choice of tires. They love the Michelin Energy MXV4's, which are midrange performers in all respects, and not the greatest tires for generating top objective numbers in handling tests. Michelin rates the MXV4 as a 5 in their "High Performance" category, which means:
High Performance The extent to which the tire provides sharp response, strong dry traction, and well-balanced cornering grip to enhance a vehicle's behavior in spirited driving..
Their own MXV4 Plus is rated a 7 in High Performance.
So in both tests where the Camry turned in better objective numbers in handling, but was still rated behind the Accord in subjective handling, it had better tires. In both cases, the Accord had the MXV4s, while in C/D, the Camry had the superior MXV4 Plus, and in R/T, it had Bridgestone Potenzas.
I have the MXV4 Plus line on my 2000 EX V6... maybe that helps to explain why I'm so VERY pleased with the handling. If they want to stick with the Michelins, I wish Honda would pop for the much better MXV4 Plus in place of the MXV4.
Yet Car and Driver refers to the Accord as an "engineering tour de force". I don't really think Honda needs any help on the engineering side. With advanced features like double wishbone suspension in a class dominated by the much cheaper and less sophisticated MacPherson struts, they aren't really pandering to the non-discerning driver.
As for what they're looking at the Passat for, it's for what gives it the intangible cachet of a German car. Don't know if they'll ever figure that one out. And frankly, with the intense loyalty of many of their owners, I can't help but wonder why they even care. It's mostly a particular type of image.
And the real funny part is that R/T comments, in their latest comparison, "It's a strange world that we live in; the Accord feels like a German car, and the Passat doesn't." So, at least in R/T's eyes, it seems that Honda's already done a pretty good job of figuring out the "mysteries" of the Passat.
And I'm on the same page regarding the overall excellence of both cars. When I got my 2000 Accord EX V6, my final choice was so close between it and the Passat. Ultimately, it was the bang for the buck factor that tipped the scales for the Accord.
It's not the technology. It's how technology is applied.
-Craig
Enough said on that topic.
Might some one know of an appropriate cassette which could be added that does not cost and arm and leg? The space behind the CD door does not appear to be big enough for a regular cassette radio. How hard would it be to wire into the radio harness. I do not want to just put a boombox in the seat beside me. Thanks again for all your input.
I assume you were talking about the 03 Accord but they have prices listed from 98-03. The factory cassette deck for the 03 Accord is $183.60 + shipping including everything needed to install it.
You don't have a choice of trim, it comes with the interior color of the car. You can buy a Honda tirm kit to change it:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/accint03.html
Of course, the heater was rarely used too.
We were recently asked for input on new model changes. Some of you will be happy to hear that I suggested heated mirrors at least as an option.
Here in Seattle there are times we can use them.
The brushed aluminum trim is very durable, no scratches and it cleans up easily with mild cleaner.
The leather seats are the best Honda seats yet.
The 2.4 litre 4 is underrated at 160 hp, it was dynoed at the wheels at 146hp, so probably 175 - 180 hp (thank to nypower). Honda horses are better bred.
Deciding the "option" items in each package is a difficult task. Package wants must be balanced by costs. Since Hondas last so long, trendy items are usually ignored in favor of useful more long term items. Honda get more thing right than they get wrong, but they sure aren't perfect.
Isn't there a VW discussion page on this site? It reminds me of a scratched CD I have, it keeps playing the same song part over and over. Annoying as heck, or is it just me?
in consumer reports latest reliability ratings, the passat fell to below average. there are currently no VWs recommended by CR though they're highly rated in road tests.
i drive a jetta and know that it's reliability is sub par, but i love it's high quality interior and thoughtful engineering that i'll overlook this and hope for the best.
One question for you that own an Accord already. How bright are the headlights? Do they throw enough light on both high and low beam? I drive to work at 10 PM, and good lights are essential for me.
And what are you getting for highway mpg?