I recently had a new windshield installed on my 03 EX v6, I just picked up the car, but the windshield is making squeaking and rattling sounds. Is this normal? Also, it turns out the damn autobody shop made a nice size dent on the top of my roof while installing the windshield. So now I have to get it fixed at my dealership and of course they will be reimbusring me. What a pain in the you know what. Any ideas on new windshields and the rattling a noises would be appreciatted.
Any new windshield, in ANY car, should not squeak or rattle. I had one in my '90 CRX. While it didn't squeak or rattle, it leaked water. My wife had one in her '96 Accord. That was was perfect.
I'd have them check it out and make sure they actually used glue.
I'm not trying to decide between the Honda Nav and a PDA one. I'm just trying decide whether the Honda one is worth the extra $2000. I can see how it might be useful, but is it really worth that much money? It helps you find points of interest and get directions. That's great. But if you're going somewhere, you really should look up this information ahead of time on the internet. Doing it while you're in the car seems like it can become an added distraction to the driver. And what happens if the information on the DVD is out of date? Does Honda give you new one periodically or are you stuck with it? And doesn't the Nav system make climate control and radio functions more complicated to use?
The heated mirror thing has never made sense. They offer it on Acura but not on Honda. They offer it in Canada but if you live in Minnesota, you don't get it. Does Honda think heated mirrors are a luxury item? Toyota, Volkswagon, and all the other Honda competitors offer it. Is Honda just being cheap?
Regardless if most people lease for 3 years, since I drive over 12K miles a year, I would be out of warranty before 3 years are up and I get bored of cars well before 3 years are up anyway. I don't think they really "WANT" to keep the car for 3 years, they just decided that the payments were too high for 24 month leases. I like changing my cars very frequently. I thought that was supposed to be an advantage of leasing. People say that if you want to keep a car for a long time, you buy, but if you like frequent changes, then leasing is always better. This does not appear to be true if you want to change cars every 2 years. So it looks like if you want a new car very frequently (every 2 years), then buying and reselling is cheaper in the case above.
I took a test drive in the 2003 Accord sedan yesterday. It drove very well, was extremely solid and well built and would be fine to own. I also test drove a Mazda6 several weeks ago. It also drove very well with great looks and was built as well as the Honda. I now know someone needs to build a perfect car, because with Honda I have reliability and solid resale value. With Mazda I have lots of fun and less resale value with unknown reliability. So it's a fun vs. value decision, and that isn't a decision I can't help but regret no matter what I choose to buy. I may have to flip a coin.
Whether $2K for NAV is worth it, that's a question you have to answer. 2 of our sales reps need new vehicles and are seriously considering getting NAV systems. This way they can punch in a prospect's address and get there without fumbling for maps, computer printouts, et al.
Heated mirrors are a market requirement in Canada IMHO - not so in the US. How many people complain about useless heated seats - probably the same number that would complain about useless heated mirrors.
Hi accord7. It may help to know there's someone else out there in the same situation. I am also shopping and also like the Accord and 6. I believe there is a thread on Edmunds that discusses that in depth. What may come down for Honda is that it is not in its first year, and there is more dealer competition/wiggle room in my area. Thanks to everyone who has been giving me comments about vibration in Hondas (msg 9210). I am indeed "wired" differently about sensory things, which has its downside (e.g., noise and vibration can REALLY bother me, and I must wear sunglasses indoors at times from light effects) and its upside (e.g., in the arts). But "harmonic vibrations" (Benny)? I don't think so! <L!> We are hunkering down for yet another snowstorm in the Northeast. And I can guarantee you that a lot of people (at least around DC) will not slow down. Be safe! Tuneful
Well, my point was, it just seems like today's car buyers want EVERYTHING !
They don't always want to pay the price though.
And I know some people might buy another make such as a Volkswagen simply because of something stupid (to me)like the color of the dash lights or because Honda's steering wheel controls don't light up. Things I don't give a twit about are important to others.
The navi system is very simple to use. Your not fumbling around entering info on the screen most of the locations can be entered through the voice commands. The voice commands also work for climate, CD, Radio and Mapping. After a little work and "playing" very simple to adjust to while driving.
One question only have 300 miles so far, has anyone else sensed sensitivity in brakes and acceleration in the vehicle. Brakes seem to go on all at once. And the acceleration does the same thing doesn't seem very smooth either direction. Has anyone one else experienced anything like this.
The Honda Nav also lets you control the radio and HVAC controls with your voice. For $2k, I think the Honda Nav system is a steal.
As for heated mirrors - I used them quite frequently. I don't think people know what they do. It isn't just to melt snow/ice (which happened quite often this winter here in the Northeast). It also defogs that mist/fog on humid mornings during the summer, and also drys them after it rains.
Since Honda already engineered them for the Canada market, why not offer them as an option in the US? They engineered curtain airbags for the EXV6 - why not offer it as an option on other models?
I understand they want to differentiate models from each other via available options (no Nav on DX, LX, or EX without leather), but curtain airbags is a safety issue that should be at least offered across the line. Personally, it turns me off to the particular model I would choose (EX-L, 4 cyl w/Nav).
I also understand they want to simplify the building process, but it's also a revenue stream they're losing out on. Plus they could market the heck out of the fact that they offer curtains across the entire line (like VW does). Ever take a look at a GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicle option list. Holy Schmoly. Now THAT is confusing and I'm sure doesn't make it economic to build.
Never used em. On my 300ZXTT. Never used em. There have been times where I thought they might have been nice to have em, but I got by wihout them. I'll say again..If Honda thought they were important enought to include in the U.S. they would be there. Obviously the bean counters, and product planers have found it ain't worth the cost. Since Hondas don't have options, ALL of a particular model would have to have them and would drive the price up a bit. I guess it's just not worth it here. Guess you 'll just have to buy a VW and have the poor reliability problems that seem to plague that brand. I'm glad Honda doesn't include that option.
meaningful data that only building a few combinations of cars saves money?
I'm sure it does, but how much?
My guess is that production costs aren't too different, but the average level of equipment sold on each vehicle goes up. Basically, people end up paying for stuff they wouldn't have otherwise, and that helps profits.
On the interstate I noticed that the ratio of mph to rpms 28:1000. This showed higher gearing than was reported in "Car and Driver"'s report on the V-6. Might the I-4 and V-6 have different 5-Speed automatics in them? Or might the final shift being the lock up tork convertor not have locked up yet. If I had slowly gained more speed it would have droped the rpms one more time. At 60 mph the tach was registering 2100 on my I-4. Have you also noticed the same tach reading at 60 mph? In my Odyssey I have to get over 72 mph to break the 2000 rpm barrier. Thanks for your input.
The Passat recently has rated equal to the Accord in reliability and is above it in resale value. Don't even compare them to include Mexican and Brazillian Jettas and Beetles. Oh, and a 4/50 warranty.
Ehem.
Just because: A. You don't know how to use heated mirrors, or B. You don't live in a climate that needs them
doesn't mean that no one else does. The entire north 1/3 of the country could easily benefit from them. Honda put them in the Canada Accords. Why couldn't they put them in the US Accords, at least as an option?
Oh, and Honda offers Auto Transmission, Navigation (on EX-L and EXV6 only), curtain air bags (on EXV6 only), and side air bags (LX 4 cyl only) from the factory, not including the mirade of other options dealer installed, such as the MP3 player, 8 disc CD changer, fender wall stuff, mud guards, floor mats, etc.
Again, I wanted to like the Accord. I was thinking about trading in the Passat for one (to get the Nav system). But these key features turned me off.
Has anyone experienced the transmission troubles that the Acura TL has had?? Don't they have the same transmission? Any response would be appreciated--I turned down a TL because of the trannie issue, so I was wondering how the Accord has been. Thanks!! Happy Motoring!
jcroberts, I think the varying RPMs at 60 mph may be due to the torque convert not locking up in some of the instances. Since it's a fluid coupling with slippage, exact consistent ratios are not achieved since different RPMS are requried to maintain a certain speed depending on tire pressure, wind gusts, hilly terrain, engine temperature...etc. A manual transmission on the other should have more consistent ratios for certain speeds.
have come down in prices and trickled down from expensive luxury models to everyday commuters. New technologies always cost more, but then after manufacturing capability and market competition develops, the prices come down to more reasonable levels so that non-luxury car-makers can include them and make a profit still.
I'm just complaining that Honda should've included the side curtain airbags in at least the EX model since that model is also one that includes a lot of "unnecessary features" to most people. But I also think that including it along with the SAB option for a slightly higher price is good too since people who want SAB are the ones who also don't mind paying for the additional safety features. The Mazda6 has the SAB and side curtains as one package that can be added as an option to any trim level.
Since all the most direct competitors to the Accord (Passat, Camry, Altima) have them standard or optionally, I could see Honda putting them in Accords below the EXV6, if enough people ask about it in the next couple years. On the other hand, the lighted steering wheel controls issue is such a trivial thing, that I am shocked to see someone post that that cannot live without them and turned down buying an Accord because the steering wheel controls didn't light up??!! It is not as if you need lights to adjust the steering wheel audio and cruise buttons. The controls are not that complicated.
If you ever used your rear window defroster, chances are you used your heated mirrors. I don't know how other manufacturers do it, but on Ford products, the mirrors are "energized" whenever the rear window defrost is on. Even here in So Cal, I've found the heated mirrors quite valuable.
I'm about to purchase an EX 4 cyl. w/ leather from a dealer in California (I live in Idaho). Does anybody here know much about this PZEV? Can I buy the car without it, or can they remove it for me? Or is it something that I would want? I've never owned a car with such a thing, and I wonder if it hurts (or improves) gas mileage, makes the car run louder, etc.
I agree that Honda should make the heated mirrors standard in the US. Actually, the feature I miss even more is the low washer fluid warning light... you go through a lot of washer fluid when driving through winter slop.
Living in Atlanta, you don't need side mirror defosters, which is why I now understand why you think they're useless. That's also why I mentioned the northern 1/3 of the country would benefit from them.
Let me quote: The fewer variations on an assembly line the cheaper and more reliable the assembly. It makes more sense that way.
So if the assembly plants is tooled to include them in Canada, wouldn't it be cheaper and more reliable, in your eyes, to also include them in the US?
s852: I didn't say that I wouldn't buy an Accord because of lighted steering wheel control. But it's something I'd be giving up. Concerns againt buying one is because Honda missed key features, such as side curtain airbags and heated side mirrors. I'm almost positive that these will be included in future revisions.
Who's that in the Mid Size category? Oh. The Passat.
anonymousposts: VW as a whole is at or below average. Didn't I mentioned something to the effect of "don't include the Mexican and Brazillian Jetta and Beetle"?? The German made Passat is in a totally different class. The Mosel and Emden assembly plants are top notch. It's comparable to the build quaility of the American made ML class vs the S and E class. Same brand, entirely different ratings. Apples and oranges.
Guys (and gals), don't get me wrong. I've owned a few Hondas/Acuras in the past. They're great cars. I never regretted buying one. But it doesn't mean they're the end all/be all. The current Accord is missing key features that other cars have had for years.
Even Edmunds Editor's review has a Con as "missing key features".
There is an excellent comparison test of the Accord, Camry, and Altima in the latest issue of Motor Trend. Naturally, with its balance of Camry refinement/isolation and Altima poise and sporting prowess, the Accord was picked as the overall winner. The comparo was the bread and butter models- 4cylinders, automatics, ABS (Meaning Accord LX, Altima 2.5S, Camry LE).
I have been very impressed with Motor Trend as of late. I would prefer straight up rankings in comparison tests, but it seems the quality of the magazine has improved. This comparison test was well focused around a price point/similar drivetrains, and was well-written.
One thing I did find intersting was that the softer Camry actually posted better handling and braking numbers than the Accord. Certainly, in the text, the Camry was knocked for its much less sporting feel, and so I expected better numbers for the Accord.
The Accord, at 8.5 to 60, did outrun both the Camry and Altima (which both posted slower 0-60 numbers than I expected). Motor Trend still doesnt do passing tests, though, which, at least in this class, is important.
And finally, to the point of many on this board, the Accord was the only one in the test without side airbags/side curtains. BUT it was the only one with std. ABS.
Alpha - You beat me to posting the results of the MT comparision. I too have been impressed with the improvements made in MT recently. I always thought they used to be the worst "bought by advertising" magazine because they never really said anything negative and never picked "winners". Much better overall. They haven't gone so far as to stop with the "NEXT CORVETTE REVEALED!!!!!" cover stories yet, but there is progress.
Outrun - Check Intellichoice and compare ownership costs of the Passat vs. Accord (both are recommended). I like the Passat a lot, but don't know if I'd buy one (that is until I saw they'll offer TDI for '04). If you assume it costs X dollars to build a mid-size sedan, its clear Honda put its money into engineering whereas more of the Passat is in the interior materials. Heck, premium gas alone in a small turbo is enough to scare me off.
Features - I would appreciate heated mirrors. But playing devil's advocate, when only the northern 3rd of the country would really use them, should they (and the associated cost) be foisted upon the rest of the market?
Honda isn't big on too many factory options. I don't see them allowing simple things such as heated mirrors as factory options.
Motor Trend - perhaps the changes are a result of David E. Davis running the show now. IMHO, Automobile (which he founded) is one of the finest American car magazines around.
If a small turbo is enough to scare you off, why do you consider a TDI. The T stands for "turbo".
Premium gas is required because it's a high compression engine. One CAN run 87 octane, but the timing will be retarded slightly (less power/mileage).
I disagree that the Passat $$$ isn't spent on engineering. I think it's better engineered than the Accord. The Accord $$$ goes into ergonomics that the masses are used to and engine technology. Funny, but Honda admits that it used the current Passat as something it wants to be. Even their commercials have a German Language CD. Wonder why...
"One thing I did find intersting was that the softer Camry actually posted better handling and braking numbers than the Accord. Certainly, in the text, the Camry was knocked for its much less sporting feel, and so I expected better numbers for the Accord."
The same thing happened in the recent Road and Track and Car and Driver comparos. I haven't seen the MT review yet, so I don't know if it's the case here, but these numbers often tend to go hand and hand with Honda's choice of tires. They love the Michelin Energy MXV4's, which are midrange performers in all respects, and not the greatest tires for generating top objective numbers in handling tests. Michelin rates the MXV4 as a 5 in their "High Performance" category, which means:
High Performance The extent to which the tire provides sharp response, strong dry traction, and well-balanced cornering grip to enhance a vehicle's behavior in spirited driving..
Their own MXV4 Plus is rated a 7 in High Performance.
So in both tests where the Camry turned in better objective numbers in handling, but was still rated behind the Accord in subjective handling, it had better tires. In both cases, the Accord had the MXV4s, while in C/D, the Camry had the superior MXV4 Plus, and in R/T, it had Bridgestone Potenzas.
I have the MXV4 Plus line on my 2000 EX V6... maybe that helps to explain why I'm so VERY pleased with the handling. If they want to stick with the Michelins, I wish Honda would pop for the much better MXV4 Plus in place of the MXV4.
If I can get and have ABS, 4 wheel discs, side air bags and traction control on a 4 cylinder Hyundai Elantra GT, Honda can offer the same plus head curtain airbags on EX models. Putting ABS on all models was a big step forward. Maybe there's hope. At least offer the extra stuff on an EX-L. The buyer is telling you they are willing to pay up...they may just not want a 6 cylinder engine.
I disagree that the Passat $$$ isn't spent on engineering. I think it's better engineered than the Accord. The Accord $$$ goes into ergonomics that the masses are used to and engine technology. Funny, but Honda admits that it used the current Passat as something it wants to be. Even their commercials have a German Language CD. Wonder why...
Yet Car and Driver refers to the Accord as an "engineering tour de force". I don't really think Honda needs any help on the engineering side. With advanced features like double wishbone suspension in a class dominated by the much cheaper and less sophisticated MacPherson struts, they aren't really pandering to the non-discerning driver.
As for what they're looking at the Passat for, it's for what gives it the intangible cachet of a German car. Don't know if they'll ever figure that one out. And frankly, with the intense loyalty of many of their owners, I can't help but wonder why they even care. It's mostly a particular type of image.
And the real funny part is that R/T comments, in their latest comparison, "It's a strange world that we live in; the Accord feels like a German car, and the Passat doesn't." So, at least in R/T's eyes, it seems that Honda's already done a pretty good job of figuring out the "mysteries" of the Passat.
And I'm on the same page regarding the overall excellence of both cars. When I got my 2000 Accord EX V6, my final choice was so close between it and the Passat. Ultimately, it was the bang for the buck factor that tipped the scales for the Accord.
Ask any engineer... double wishbone and multi-link are inherently superior designs to MacPherson struts, mostly due to far better camber control. Whether or not a car company truly leverages those advantages depends a lot on the design priorities. That BMW does so well with struts is a tribute to their engineers, not a tribute to the design characteristics of the MacPherson struts. And also a tribute to the high priority they place on handling, which is probably the highest of any sedan manufacturer.
I know Honda has a CD/Cassette radio for $450ish. Might some one know of an appropriate cassette which could be added that does not cost and arm and leg? The space behind the CD door does not appear to be big enough for a regular cassette radio. How hard would it be to wire into the radio harness. I do not want to just put a boombox in the seat beside me. Thanks again for all your input.
I assume you were talking about the 03 Accord but they have prices listed from 98-03. The factory cassette deck for the 03 Accord is $183.60 + shipping including everything needed to install it.
Does anyone have the interior with the aluminum accents? I'm wondering how they look. Do they look cheap? Do they scratch easily? Also, if you go with the grey or black interior, does Honda offer any alternatives to the aluminum accents or are you stuck with them?
Hello all! I have a 2003 accord ex-v6. As I was driving it last night, I noticed an orange light right by the homelink transmitter and reading lights, above the rear-view mirror. Does anybody know what this is, and what it does? Thanks!
We have a Silver 03 4dr with charcoal cloth. It has the aluminum trim inside which seems to look ok to me. I haven't noticed any scratches in the 3 weeks we have had the car. My other car is an IS300 so I tend to live on the edge as far as styling is concerned.
You don't have a choice of trim, it comes with the interior color of the car. You can buy a Honda tirm kit to change it:
Phil that is the ambient lighting feature on the new accords. Its actually very nice during night time driving. It subtle and very practical when it comes to lighting the center console.
I really like the ambient light feature, it works. The brushed aluminum trim is very durable, no scratches and it cleans up easily with mild cleaner. The leather seats are the best Honda seats yet. The 2.4 litre 4 is underrated at 160 hp, it was dynoed at the wheels at 146hp, so probably 175 - 180 hp (thank to nypower). Honda horses are better bred. Deciding the "option" items in each package is a difficult task. Package wants must be balanced by costs. Since Hondas last so long, trendy items are usually ignored in favor of useful more long term items. Honda get more thing right than they get wrong, but they sure aren't perfect. Isn't there a VW discussion page on this site? It reminds me of a scratched CD I have, it keeps playing the same song part over and over. Annoying as heck, or is it just me?
I don't currently own a 2003 Accord, but the black plastic housing the center air vents on up to the windshield looks very "scratch prone". Has anyone had any scratches here or am I just thinking too hard about potential problems?
you stated the passat is the equal of the accord in terms of reliability. what's your source?
in consumer reports latest reliability ratings, the passat fell to below average. there are currently no VWs recommended by CR though they're highly rated in road tests.
i drive a jetta and know that it's reliability is sub par, but i love it's high quality interior and thoughtful engineering that i'll overlook this and hope for the best.
I finally got a chance to take a test drive of a 4 cylinder LX. I find the look of the Accord to be very pleasing, and when I sat in the car I spent a few minutes just admiring it. I did not notice the vibration that has been mentioned while I was sitting there letting the car warm. Then I pulled out of the lot onto the street and sat at a red light. Yep, a VERY noticeable vibration. The car looked to be idling around 700 RPM, and when I revved it a little up over 1200 RPM the vibration stopped. I can only speculate that this is the nature of the engine at idle, because when I mentioned it to the saleslady, she did not seem surprised. But, when driving, the engine is very smooth. I enjoyed the drive. Even with the auto it is quick on the on ramps, and takes turns much better than I expected. The stereo was a good one for a stock job, and I like the way it was set up. I'm not small, and I had plenty of room. The tilt/telescope wheel is not as smooth in operation as the Passat, and the overall feel of the interior material does not feel as upscale as the VW. That said, I like the interior of the Accord better. The backseat is bigger, the comfort is there, and I like the Honda's stereo better. Even with the Monsoon, VW's stereo is lacking.
One question for you that own an Accord already. How bright are the headlights? Do they throw enough light on both high and low beam? I drive to work at 10 PM, and good lights are essential for me.
I have been impressed how peppy the 2.4 is with the 5-Spd Auto. 0-60 takes only 8.5 seconds in todays Motortrend. I want to get a few miles on my new Accord before I rev it over 3500 rpms. Has anyone seen a hp and torque graph? It appears that the torque comes on pretty early, below 2000 rpms. I would like to see the graph. Happy According.
I have a 5sp Coupe EX-L and I marvel at how you can drive the thing all day in the 2000-3000 rpm range. But when you feel the urge the run yup to redline is spectacular for a 4 cylinder. I love this car. And My 02 SI too.
Comments
I'd have them check it out and make sure they actually used glue.
-Craig
The heated mirror thing has never made sense. They offer it on Acura but not on Honda. They offer it in Canada but if you live in Minnesota, you don't get it. Does Honda think heated mirrors are a luxury item? Toyota, Volkswagon, and all the other Honda competitors offer it. Is Honda just being cheap?
I don't think they really "WANT" to keep the car for 3 years, they just decided that the payments were too high for 24 month leases.
I like changing my cars very frequently. I thought that was supposed to be an advantage of leasing.
People say that if you want to keep a car for a long time, you buy, but if you like frequent changes, then leasing is always better. This does not appear to be true if you want to change cars every 2 years.
So it looks like if you want a new car very frequently (every 2 years), then buying and reselling is cheaper in the case above.
Heated mirrors are a market requirement in Canada IMHO - not so in the US. How many people complain about useless heated seats - probably the same number that would complain about useless heated mirrors.
It may help to know there's someone else out there in the same situation. I am also shopping and also like the Accord and 6. I believe there is a thread on Edmunds that discusses that in depth. What may come down for Honda is that it is not in its first year, and there is more dealer competition/wiggle room in my area.
Thanks to everyone who has been giving me comments about vibration in Hondas (msg 9210). I am indeed "wired" differently about sensory things, which has its downside (e.g., noise and vibration can REALLY bother me, and I must wear sunglasses indoors at times from light effects) and its upside (e.g., in the arts). But "harmonic vibrations" (Benny)? I don't think so! <L!>
We are hunkering down for yet another snowstorm in the Northeast. And I can guarantee you that a lot of people (at least around DC) will not slow down.
Be safe!
Tuneful
They don't always want to pay the price though.
And I know some people might buy another make such as a Volkswagen simply because of something stupid (to me)like the color of the dash lights or because Honda's steering wheel controls don't light up. Things I don't give a twit about are important to others.
This is why cars evolve I suppose.
And the prices keep going up...
One question only have 300 miles so far, has anyone else sensed sensitivity in brakes and acceleration in the vehicle. Brakes seem to go on all at once. And the acceleration does the same thing doesn't seem very smooth either direction. Has anyone one else experienced anything like this.
As for heated mirrors - I used them quite frequently. I don't think people know what they do. It isn't just to melt snow/ice (which happened quite often this winter here in the Northeast). It also defogs that mist/fog on humid mornings during the summer, and also drys them after it rains.
Since Honda already engineered them for the Canada market, why not offer them as an option in the US? They engineered curtain airbags for the EXV6 - why not offer it as an option on other models?
I understand they want to differentiate models from each other via available options (no Nav on DX, LX, or EX without leather), but curtain airbags is a safety issue that should be at least offered across the line. Personally, it turns me off to the particular model I would choose (EX-L, 4 cyl w/Nav).
I also understand they want to simplify the building process, but it's also a revenue stream they're losing out on. Plus they could market the heck out of the fact that they offer curtains across the entire line (like VW does). Ever take a look at a GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicle option list. Holy Schmoly. Now THAT is confusing and I'm sure doesn't make it economic to build.
-Craig
I'm sure it does, but how much?
My guess is that production costs aren't too different, but the average level of equipment sold on each vehicle goes up. Basically, people end up paying for stuff they wouldn't have otherwise, and that helps profits.
Nonetheless, does anyone have some actual data?
Ehem.
Just because:
A. You don't know how to use heated mirrors, or
B. You don't live in a climate that needs them
doesn't mean that no one else does. The entire north 1/3 of the country could easily benefit from them. Honda put them in the Canada Accords. Why couldn't they put them in the US Accords, at least as an option?
Oh, and Honda offers Auto Transmission, Navigation (on EX-L and EXV6 only), curtain air bags (on EXV6 only), and side air bags (LX 4 cyl only) from the factory, not including the mirade of other options dealer installed, such as the MP3 player, 8 disc CD changer, fender wall stuff, mud guards, floor mats, etc.
Again, I wanted to like the Accord. I was thinking about trading in the Passat for one (to get the Nav system). But these key features turned me off.
-Craig.
I'm just complaining that Honda should've included the side curtain airbags in at least the EX model since that model is also one that includes a lot of "unnecessary features" to most people. But I also think that including it along with the SAB option for a slightly higher price is good too since people who want SAB are the ones who also don't mind paying for the additional safety features. The Mazda6 has the SAB and side curtains as one package that can be added as an option to any trim level.
The fewer variations on an assembly line the cheaper and more reliable the assembly. It makes more sense that way.
On the other hand, the lighted steering wheel controls issue is such a trivial thing, that I am shocked to see someone post that that cannot live without them and turned down buying an Accord because the steering wheel controls didn't light up??!! It is not as if you need lights to adjust the steering wheel audio and cruise buttons. The controls are not that complicated.
Thanks for any input.
Let me quote:
The fewer variations on an assembly line the cheaper and more reliable the assembly. It makes more sense that way.
So if the assembly plants is tooled to include them in Canada, wouldn't it be cheaper and more reliable, in your eyes, to also include them in the US?
s852:
I didn't say that I wouldn't buy an Accord because of lighted steering wheel control. But it's something I'd be giving up. Concerns againt buying one is because Honda missed key features, such as side curtain airbags and heated side mirrors. I'm almost positive that these will be included in future revisions.
mikek37:
Residual values for 2002:
http://edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/71962/article.html
Who's that in the Mid Size category? Oh. The Passat.
anonymousposts:
VW as a whole is at or below average. Didn't I mentioned something to the effect of "don't include the Mexican and Brazillian Jetta and Beetle"?? The German made Passat is in a totally different class. The Mosel and Emden assembly plants are top notch. It's comparable to the build quaility of the American made ML class vs the S and E class. Same brand, entirely different ratings. Apples and oranges.
Guys (and gals), don't get me wrong. I've owned a few Hondas/Acuras in the past. They're great cars. I never regretted buying one. But it doesn't mean they're the end all/be all. The current Accord is missing key features that other cars have had for years.
Even Edmunds Editor's review has a Con as "missing key features".
There. I'm done.
-Craig
I have been very impressed with Motor Trend as of late. I would prefer straight up rankings in comparison tests, but it seems the quality of the magazine has improved. This comparison test was well focused around a price point/similar drivetrains, and was well-written.
One thing I did find intersting was that the softer Camry actually posted better handling and braking numbers than the Accord. Certainly, in the text, the Camry was knocked for its much less sporting feel, and so I expected better numbers for the Accord.
The Accord, at 8.5 to 60, did outrun both the Camry and Altima (which both posted slower 0-60 numbers than I expected). Motor Trend still doesnt do passing tests, though, which, at least in this class, is important.
And finally, to the point of many on this board, the Accord was the only one in the test without side airbags/side curtains. BUT it was the only one with std. ABS.
~alpha
Outrun - Check Intellichoice and compare ownership costs of the Passat vs. Accord (both are recommended). I like the Passat a lot, but don't know if I'd buy one (that is until I saw they'll offer TDI for '04). If you assume it costs X dollars to build a mid-size sedan, its clear Honda put its money into engineering whereas more of the Passat is in the interior materials. Heck, premium gas alone in a small turbo is enough to scare me off.
Honda isn't big on too many factory options. I don't see them allowing simple things such as heated mirrors as factory options.
Motor Trend - perhaps the changes are a result of David E. Davis running the show now. IMHO, Automobile (which he founded) is one of the finest American car magazines around.
Premium gas is required because it's a high compression engine. One CAN run 87 octane, but the timing will be retarded slightly (less power/mileage).
I disagree that the Passat $$$ isn't spent on engineering. I think it's better engineered than the Accord. The Accord $$$ goes into ergonomics that the masses are used to and engine technology. Funny, but Honda admits that it used the current Passat as something it wants to be. Even their commercials have a German Language CD. Wonder why...
-Craig
The same thing happened in the recent Road and Track and Car and Driver comparos. I haven't seen the MT review yet, so I don't know if it's the case here, but these numbers often tend to go hand and hand with Honda's choice of tires. They love the Michelin Energy MXV4's, which are midrange performers in all respects, and not the greatest tires for generating top objective numbers in handling tests. Michelin rates the MXV4 as a 5 in their "High Performance" category, which means:
High Performance The extent to which the tire provides sharp response, strong dry traction, and well-balanced cornering grip to enhance a vehicle's behavior in spirited driving..
Their own MXV4 Plus is rated a 7 in High Performance.
So in both tests where the Camry turned in better objective numbers in handling, but was still rated behind the Accord in subjective handling, it had better tires. In both cases, the Accord had the MXV4s, while in C/D, the Camry had the superior MXV4 Plus, and in R/T, it had Bridgestone Potenzas.
I have the MXV4 Plus line on my 2000 EX V6... maybe that helps to explain why I'm so VERY pleased with the handling. If they want to stick with the Michelins, I wish Honda would pop for the much better MXV4 Plus in place of the MXV4.
Yet Car and Driver refers to the Accord as an "engineering tour de force". I don't really think Honda needs any help on the engineering side. With advanced features like double wishbone suspension in a class dominated by the much cheaper and less sophisticated MacPherson struts, they aren't really pandering to the non-discerning driver.
As for what they're looking at the Passat for, it's for what gives it the intangible cachet of a German car. Don't know if they'll ever figure that one out. And frankly, with the intense loyalty of many of their owners, I can't help but wonder why they even care. It's mostly a particular type of image.
And the real funny part is that R/T comments, in their latest comparison, "It's a strange world that we live in; the Accord feels like a German car, and the Passat doesn't." So, at least in R/T's eyes, it seems that Honda's already done a pretty good job of figuring out the "mysteries" of the Passat.
And I'm on the same page regarding the overall excellence of both cars. When I got my 2000 Accord EX V6, my final choice was so close between it and the Passat. Ultimately, it was the bang for the buck factor that tipped the scales for the Accord.
It's not the technology. It's how technology is applied.
-Craig
Enough said on that topic.
Might some one know of an appropriate cassette which could be added that does not cost and arm and leg? The space behind the CD door does not appear to be big enough for a regular cassette radio. How hard would it be to wire into the radio harness. I do not want to just put a boombox in the seat beside me. Thanks again for all your input.
I assume you were talking about the 03 Accord but they have prices listed from 98-03. The factory cassette deck for the 03 Accord is $183.60 + shipping including everything needed to install it.
You don't have a choice of trim, it comes with the interior color of the car. You can buy a Honda tirm kit to change it:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/accint03.html
Of course, the heater was rarely used too.
We were recently asked for input on new model changes. Some of you will be happy to hear that I suggested heated mirrors at least as an option.
Here in Seattle there are times we can use them.
The brushed aluminum trim is very durable, no scratches and it cleans up easily with mild cleaner.
The leather seats are the best Honda seats yet.
The 2.4 litre 4 is underrated at 160 hp, it was dynoed at the wheels at 146hp, so probably 175 - 180 hp (thank to nypower). Honda horses are better bred.
Deciding the "option" items in each package is a difficult task. Package wants must be balanced by costs. Since Hondas last so long, trendy items are usually ignored in favor of useful more long term items. Honda get more thing right than they get wrong, but they sure aren't perfect.
Isn't there a VW discussion page on this site? It reminds me of a scratched CD I have, it keeps playing the same song part over and over. Annoying as heck, or is it just me?
in consumer reports latest reliability ratings, the passat fell to below average. there are currently no VWs recommended by CR though they're highly rated in road tests.
i drive a jetta and know that it's reliability is sub par, but i love it's high quality interior and thoughtful engineering that i'll overlook this and hope for the best.
One question for you that own an Accord already. How bright are the headlights? Do they throw enough light on both high and low beam? I drive to work at 10 PM, and good lights are essential for me.
And what are you getting for highway mpg?