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Hope this helps...JL
By comparison, I almost bought a 1998 E300 Turbodiesel new in late 1997 for $42,200 (still have the purchase papers). Based upon what I see in the DC area, I could sell that car in a heartbeat today for $25k with 75,000 miles. One of my consultants has a 1999 with 70k miles and was offered either $30k on a 2004 E500 trade or $27,500 in cash to sell it to the dealer (HBL in Tysons Corner).
My conclusion is that the BMW 5-series after about 70k miles is pretty tough on depreciation compared to the E class (although, in fairness, the E430 V8 takes a bigger hit than the 6-cylinder or turbodiesel).
I LOVE IT. I LOVE THE SLEEK NEW INDUSTRIAL LOOK, I LOVE THAT THEY ABANDONED BEING OLD EUROPE, I LOVE THE DRIVE
ksso
Pack a whooping 400 HP. LS V8 engine as found in a Z06 Corvette. This car is nothing like GM has done before.
BMW may have "Bangled-up" the new design from an aesthetic standpoint, but BMW has a long tradition and history of engineering excellence and exceptional driving dynamics. GM on the other hand, has a long tradition of essentially producing junk. I hate to sound so harsh, but to even set foot in a GM showroom, I would need to have a frontal lobotomy to remove from memory the cars that fell apart in the hands of my parants and other family members at a time when they couldn't afford it.
The question now... why is it there to begin with? My first guess is that the extra seat travel compromises air bag efficacy. Anyone know for sure? Will be checking in with BMW on this to see what they have to say.
Regards....JL
Resale values have declined for many marques and models. All the subsidies, rebates, incentives to dealers, low interest loans, etc. have taken their toll. Just look at how much BMW was recently offering on the last E39s. Was cheaper to buy a new '03 E39 than a used '02 E39. That put pressure on all used E39s.
My '98 540i6 was 6 model years old. Almost hitting 80K miles. CPO warranty expires in February '04. New 5 Series is upon us. That impacts resales but right now no one knows for sure if the new 5 will be a sales winner or not. Winter is almost upon us and I live in the midwest. I'd hate to think what I would've gotten if I tried to sell her in winter or after CPO expired.
habitat1... You wrote, "I almost bought a 1998 E300 Turbodiesel new in late 1997 for $42,200 (still have the purchase papers). Based upon what I see in the DC area, I could sell that car in a heartbeat today for $25k with 75,000 miles." You only know what you actually get the day you sell the car. You will always get more selling your car to a private party. Dealer buys wholesale and sells at retail. But in my state, seller pays sales tax and you don't pay sales tax on the trade in portion of the new car purchase (so I saved over a $1K just in taxes).
Turbo-diesels sell to a unique audience. There aren't that many. Smallish group of people who want high fuel economy in a luxury car. You should do the analysis on a '98 gasoline E class.
But the difference in comfort is night and day by being able to extend that seat. I can't believe I almost didn't buy the car because I felt cramped. Now it feels like a totally different vehicle. I have to believe a certain amount of sales were lost because of this and am curious to see how the side airbags are sorted out in the new 5 which comes with ample legroom.
Am still looking forward to contacting BMW tech and marketing.
Did you know that BMW’s 5-speeder is GM-sourced? GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick.
A modified Neon or Civic could probably beat any stock BMW or GM "at the track". I suspect that most BMW owners and posters here have a slightly broader perspective on what constitutes engineering excellence and performance.
"Cadillac is not the car it used to be in the 70's to 1999." Is that so? Personally, I don't believe that. But, even if you are gullible enough to, try coming back here in 30 years when you don't have to apologize for the most recent three decades. You don't become a winner overnight with so much practice at being a loser.
I'd like to believe the potential for a competitive or even superior American automobile company exists. But it would not involve either the management of GM or the UAW.
Sorry to the host and rest of the board for the digression.
Thanks again....
<Did you know that BMW’s 5-speeder is GM-sourced?>
Yes, and note that the transmissions are designed/built in Europe. Anyway, GM slushboxes aren't the problem; it's the rest of the car.
<GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick>
Let's see... the Allante was supposed to beat the SL 500 at it's own game. Then the Catera was going to put the A4, C Class, and 3er on the trailer. Oh yeah, and Cadillac was going to dominate LeMans-just like Audi, BMW, and M-B. Refresh my memory; just how many podium finishes did Cadillac score??? Now the CTS-V is going to put the S, M, and AMG cars in the shade? I'll bet there will be darn few CTS-V drivers willing to race an E39 M5 for pinks. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a chipped E28 or E35 M5 ran and hid from the CTS-V either. As habitat said, come back here when Cadillac has had three decades of experience building real sports sedans.
Get the service history and have a BMW tech inspect it. At 80K it should have had a water pump fitted not to long ago. It sounds like a good price, but don't get too attached; there are a ton of used 5ers out there and it's worth waiting for a good one. See bmwtips.com for good E39 info as well-and you can also contact me via the web page listed in my profile.
Happy BMW Motoring,
Jack
P.S. - My biggest gripe with the E60 is not the styling (which is after all subjective) but the sub-standard quality of the exterior and interior materials. The entire lower 1/3 of the exterior is PLASTIC! Almost the entire back-end is also plastic. The interior contains very cheap plastic (especially in the door inserts and center console) compared to my E39. Also, the leather seat coverings (that's right, coverings, not full leather) is very thin and not very comfortable. I'm sure the driving experience is better than my E39, but for over $50,000 I expect some level of quality materials.
Furthermore, it seems that all this chat with people that have E39's is directed at bashing the new five. I have heard the 'cheap' references before. Your car (E39) is fabulous, that goes without saying, but there is nothing cheap about the E60. It's just a totally different presentation. I hope that you can begin to appreciate the differences because it is greatly improved in all areas.
Example 1. The E65 shift lever. It's obvious that BMW wnted to admit to building a car with a column shift, so they adopted a non-intuitive procedure that requires you to give a info card to the valet so the poor [non-permissible content removed] can get the thing out of park.
Example 2. Using the turn signal wand on the E60 now requires a moderate learning curve. Now, just exactly what was wrong with the setup BMW used for the past four decades? I sure don't remember hearing anyone complain about turn signal switches in the past.
Yes, BMWs are still excellent driving machines, but now you have to get past the gawky styling and infuriating stechnology to appreciate them.
Depreciation is NOT based on MSRP (unless that reflects the actual cost of the car) or what another dealer later sells the car for after they take it in trade or buy it in auction.
Keep in mind that dealers ordinarily acquire their used cars at wholesale and sell at retail. The markup is their profit. They rarely buy or sell cars at a loss. An original owner who sells car by him/herself, likely gets more than wholesale but less than car dealer retail.
Future value of a car is what it actually sells to a paying buyer for years later.
Future value depends upon time, mileage, condition of the car, and condition of the market vis-a-vis the particular car. [See what happens to resale if you buy an "odd" car that no one wants (e.g., a stripper non-metallic white 525i 5-speed manual with no options). Or try to sell a RWD convertible in winter in Minnesota.]
I don't have to "toe the BMW corporate line". The product stands on its own and I have sold 4 new 5's already. People love the car.
The interior is cool. I do agree that it is less of a cockpit, but that is OK. It is extremely comfortable and quiet...much quieter than the last 5. I will also admit that I am a technophile. I LOVE new technology and this car has tons of it. Sorry, but I love the gadgets.
Finally, the car is amazing to drive. Of course, I am currently driving a '01 Altima, so I do not have much to compare it to. However, I have driven the E39 and this car does seem tighter.
The car I drove was 530 with PP, SP, and xenon.
I have waited years and years to be able to buy a luxury car. Now, all I have to do is decide on options and whether I want to spend the extra bucks for the 545i. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only thing I get with the 45 is a blast of an engine. I would rarely use its potential, though.
I will wait a few more months and then buy. Hopefully, they will be willing to deal a bit, but I will pay MSRP if necessary.
Remember: What matters is what you get and what you pay.
Happy Motoring,
Jack
NBMD.........if you drive the 545, let's face it, you'll probably want it, right? I'd say coming from a maxima that the 530i might be a sufficient enough jump in performance (everything's relative). Don't get me wrong though, I'd want the 545 myself. But, I'm not right about everything. Make sure that you negotiate because MSRP is not a given if you're buying.
Subsidizing leases is one of the most popular ways automakers boost sales. The stated residual may have no basis in reality. The leasee gets a great deal and the leasor assumes the risk.
Haven't you read the stories about all the companies burned by their over-optimistic lease residuals?
Leasing is not renting.
JOATMAN's depreciation was 37% for 3 years. That's a real figure. BMW's leases do have a basis in reality. The high used car prices sustain the lease residuals. So, no one is getting burned here.
RIEZ, you may consider these facts and realize that renting is not leasing and a 'bimmer lease is not some gimmick brought on to fabricate sales
It's time to replace tires on my 2000 BMW 540IA
with sports pkg. It has Dulop Sports 2000E tires.
Suprisingly, they are all 235/45/R17. I thought
the rear tires are 255/40/R17?
I'd like to buy tires which give smooth & quiet
ride with decent performance. I live in SF Bay
Area so don't have to worry about snow. Winter
is usually wet.
A wheelworks employee recommended Bridgestone
Turanzas LSZ. Any advise?
Thanks
Imran
What percentage of leasees ever buy out the lease? Most walk away. Lease returns fill auction houses and used car lots.
You keep confusing different things that have nothing to do with depreciation (e.g., MSRP that is different than actual sales price) and confuse the parties involved (retail buyers vs dealers). Depreciation is the difference between what you buy something and what you later get when you sell it. If the leasee doesn't buy the item, they never experience any depreciation. They never owned anything; they never sold anything. They just "rented" the use of the item on agreed to terms. And if the leasee does buy the lease out, they will only later experience the depreciation when they finally go to sell the car they now own to another party.
Lease residual is an estimate. Whether the residual is achieved only happens when the car is finally sold by the original owner (the leasor) to the next buyer. If that is the leasee, buying at the agreed residual rate per the terms of the lease buyout does not equal depreciation. That just gets the initial cost basis for depreciation for the 2nd owner (the now former leasee). The new owner finds out what the depreciation is when s/he later sells the car to a 3rd owner.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
bmwseller-Do you have any idea when the 1 series will be available for ordering?
Still wouldn't buy it. But I wouldn't mind having the Cien... will probably never make it to market... what a shame. This new age of muscle is interesting. Can't wait to see what the next M5 fetches... would not be surprised if it didn't make it to market for 2005 either.
My point supported BMWSeller's contention that a BMW has good resale, or low depreciation. I concur. I gave real world testimony that can be substantiated with lease agreements, etc. This lease is from BMWFS. The residual was their going rate at the time. Don't fell sorry for them. They're doing OK last I checked.
Most people on this forum don't seem to keep their BMWs longer than 3 years, so I suggested leasing as a way to realize the good resale of BMWs and eliminate the risk of market forces.
As to what percentage of people buy out their lease, what does that have to do with anything? I could easily ask, "What percentage of car buyers keep their cars longer than 3 years?" Again, leasing does give you a known way out of a vehicle. Edmunds is littered with stories about people being "upside down" or "buried". If you do a lease that fits your needs, this isn't going to happen.
Now, riez, have you been burned, had a lease go bad, or what?
Six months of sMiles and thirty to go,
Jack
Bridgestone Potenza RE 750's (235/255). After
1500 miles no complaints. Replaced Yokohama
AV db's which only lasted 15k and were very noisy
after 10k miles. Bridgestone's were recommended
by Tire Rack where they were purchased from.