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525 with sport package
or
530 without sport package
Which would it be?
E39 model, just to keep it simple.
hhhmmmmmm
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Best Regards,
Shipo
I would vote for the 525i with sport..
(Shipo: I knew you would find a way to cheat a little bit..LOL)
regards,
kyfdx
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Best Regards,
Shipo
;-)
Mrs. Shipo for President! ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
-Paul
And not only did you cheat with the two sets of tires, but bringing up the brakes does NOT make the difference sooooooooooooooooo great as to even point that out. I stand by my opinion.
Best regards,
MRC
Speaking of brakes, ummm, didn't I bring up the brakes before the question was even posed by kyfdx?
Anyway, as for the brakes not making a difference, well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I lived in SoCal a few years ago and took enough runs through the mountain roads north and east of San Diego to generate many a squishy brake pedal and smoking brakes. Given that the brakes on the 530i have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 percent greater swept area as compared to the 525i, I call that significant, even in SoCal.
The fact remains, the better the toys, the higher the price and BMW caters to us all by offering us so many choices. I chose mine, a 2002 530i, 5-Speed, Xenon, Premium Audio, PP and SP, and you chose yours, a 2003 525i, Automatic, PP and SP. I’m happy with mine knowing quite well that I couldn’t live with a 525i, you're happy with yours knowing that you saved $3,800 (using your number from a previous post) over a comparably equipped 530i. In the end, we’re all happy. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
BTW, since you lived in S. California, you would then appreciate why I switched from driving a manual (for 20 years) to driving an automatic. So Cal's perpetual parking lot is not kind to one's knees.
The bottom line: We both drive the cars we want and enjoy. They both happen to be 5 series Bimmers. We're BMW owners. We can afford them. That's a good thing.
So, they are finally waking up at BMW to the fact that the 525/530 are underpowered/overpriced. I will also predict that the 530/535 will be priced close to the current 525/530 pricing. Same thing happened in 2001 when 528 was replaced by the 530.
E39 E60
YTD 2003 YTD 2004
525 4,923 5,442 11%
530 6,309 6,359 1%
540/545 1,549 2,864 85%
12,781 14,665 15%
Only the 545 has seen a significant increase in sales with an 85% increase in units.
Hey you folks over at BMW! Do you have your ears on? Listen up, fix this turkey now before it's too late. By that I mean, clean up the uglies, inside and out, fix the software bugs and refine some of your leading/bleeding technology such as the Active Steering that comes with the SP and cannot be switched off.
If y'all are determined to stay the course, I'd suggest y'all watch yer sixes.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If you look at the details of the R&T comparison, the 530 does pretty well in the price independent ratings finishing 3rd behind the Mercedes E320 and Cadillac. If the engine HP was 260 or so I am sure that it would have come in first. The next problem here is the pricing, pushing the BMW all the way back to 6th place!
To fix this, I recommend that the BMW marketing “strategists” quickly introduce a 530/535/545 product series where the 530/535 pricing lines up with the current 525/530 pricing. Other manufacturers are taking advantage of advanced engine technology that makes BMW look conservative in the marketplace. This is not how BMW should be positioned considering how long they have been on top. Time for some new product strategists at BMW corporate.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was however, coming off of driving a 5 series, loved the car, the infamous BMW precision steering and wanted another one. I don't lease my cars, I buy them. Plus, I hated the design of the 2004 (See Shipo, we agree again!) and wanted to get a 2003 PP & SP with the extra incentives. I did.
In sum, BMW needs to upgrade their HP to match the competition without "socking" it to loyal long time BMW customers in their wallets. I think we all agree that we don't mind paying more for the "ultimate driving machine." We just don't want to get less than what the competition has out there.
But what should have the BMW corporation deeply concerned is not just the poor reviews and where the car finishes in head-to-head competition in the car magazines, but the poor sales figures when as compared to the E39. I think quantitatively, one would find those figures alarming.
One other thing: You sound soooooooooooo elated that the 525 is going to be discontinued based on an chat post from a sales guy at at BMW dealership? Huh? Maybe the guy does have some insight, but I wouldn't take that to the bank as gospel. I would however, agree that BMW MUST do something with its HP to price of the car ratio, just based on the competition and the poor car reviews.
The only "recommended" car among the four was the lowest ranked Volve which carries an average rating for reliability. Perhaps what should troubles us BMW enthusiasts, and BMW in particular, is that CR considers the current 530 model fares poorer in practically every performance perimeter over the model it has replaced. The unloved IDrive simply adds salt to the injury. It is time for BMW to take quick and decisive action to reverse this starting trend of negative perception. So the posting of the sales guy's alleged meeting could very well be true.
I plan to go for a test drive of a 645Ci in the near future, and if I'm not mistaken, I'll be able to sample both the iDrive and the Active Steering, and will then be able to offer my $0.02 on their real benefit to the driver. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
If they do introduce new engines in the second model year and have the 530 at 525 prices and 535 at 530 prices, man are the people who bought the first model year going to be steamed!
"Overall, the previous-generation 530i scored better than this one [a 2004 E60 530ia], despite its smaller interior space."
Not sure that is a great thing for a car that had an as-tested MSRP of $53,095.
Their car had automatic transmission, Prem Pkg, and prem sound.
0-60 mph: 7.4 secs
1/4 mile: 15.7 secs
60-0 ft braking: 127 ft
Actual fuel economy: 20 overall (14city/29hwy)
Noticed they give the car their lowest rating for "Headlights".
And a note to REIZ re/June CR article. Please carefully note the list of HIGHS and LOWS. Give me a break!! They really had to strain on their LOWS not to mention that their test driver(s) obviously did not take time to get the facts right on the new iDrive. Their HIGHS are why most people buy a car! The numbers? Maybe. Maybe not. Go drive one and see what you think. And, hey, if they do make some displacement or HP changes in 2005, anyone unhappy with their 2004 can opt (hopefully) to trade.
Best regards, bimmer lovers!
:-))
The new 530i just does NOT stand out either as an improvement over the E39 or against the competition. What is the old saying, two steps forward, three steps back?
Can't say the future E60 M5 impresses me. Take the price. Ouch! No way I'm ever gonna afford one. And I'm no fan of gimmicky V10s. Give me an I6 or V8 any day. Not to mention the worst thing... horror of horrors, there appears to be only SMG. No true manual transmission with a clutch!!! No clutch, no M! 'nuff said.
525 vs 530: Why I chose the 530 over the 525 - On a given day, my commute has three distinct parts, canyon driving, wide-open freeway autobaun-type driving and finally heavy stop and go traffic driving.
First is a 14 mile trip over the mountains and canyons. It is on a mostly 2-lane road with a few short passing areas. Believe me, when stuck behind slower cars and trucks, this can add 5 to 10 miles to the commute. When the passing lane is present (on an uphill grade), it is nice to have the power to accelerate quickly (and safely) by. My 530i, with a quick down shift or double down shift, makes it happen. I cannot say the same if I was driving a 525. My Lexis accelerates as fast as the 525, and I know it does not have the power to pass like the 530i. Also, when a sharp mountain curve approaches, and I am going too fast, the car saves me, it grips and slows and performs so that I have the confidence to go into a turn faster (there is a fun factor here as well as a safety factor).
The next part of my communte is a 7 mile sprint on a wide-open LA area freeway with light traffic (yes they do exist). Here again, the 530i gives me the confidence to effortlessly drive the fast lane at speeds I cannot print here. The last part of the commute consist of 5 miles in slow stop and go traffic. Here I don't need the power or handling of the 530 with SP. Driving stick is more work here. But the inconvenience here is more than made up for in the other parts of my commute.
My point is that the 525 is great if you do not need or use the power. For me, the extra horse power sold me on the car.
The car: I have less than 8 months left on my lease. I will feel sad to let the car go. It has almost 30K miles. Have not been in yet for the second service/oil change. Same tires. 2nd clutch. Broken cup-holder. I love the car.
I will not be getting the new 5-series. I am hoping the next generation 3 will be more to my liking, including having a more competitive price point (as compared to the 5) and a stronger engine (335?). The competition is better than ever. I love my 530i. I do not want to give it up. But I do not want to keep it after the warrantee period expires.
Of course, if I decide that I can justify a 645Ci then all bets are off. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
An very low optioned E39 525i with 5-speed manual Sport Pkg was a very nice car at a decent price, esp. when it first came out.
Not so sure about the E60 525i. Now MSRP is above $40,000. Even worse, the Sport Pkg comes with run-flat tires and the Active Steering.
Most E60 530i on dealer lots have MSRPs over $50,000. The ones being tested by car magazines have been in the $50-55K range. Ouch!
I was able to test drive the 530i non-SP with auto a few months back and thought the car was impressive. I am used to more power (2002 540i) than the 530i I drove. I would eventually like to drive the 545i SP to get a better comparison between the E39 and E60.
One can only get so much from reading the trade rags. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best car for their driving style. A test drive is the best way to evaluate a car.
I thought the iDrive was easy to figure out with ~10 minutes of fooling around with it. There are many cars that have a hundred little buttons all over the dash. I think that many times trying to find the correct little button could be more challenging than figuring out the iDrive.
Consequently, if I had the choice I think I'd opt out of the SP just to avoid the tire swap problem which is more hassle than the AS seems to be worth. But, I'm contemplating the 545 six-speed and won't have the option.
SMG: This isn't a manual but isn't triptronic either. It seems like the engineers in Ravensburg have cooked up what amounts to a system that does a fair job of mimicking a manual. You get the slight pause and bump between first and second and second and third. You sort of get the same feeling as a manual when you downshift. And, if you're stopped and select first, the car does not begin to creep forward like and automatic in Drive would. The system assumes you would, were this a manual, have engaged the clutch and wouldn't disengage it till you started accelerating so, in first, the SMG equipped car doesn't move till you step on the gas. Ditto in reverse.
If you can't get a manual, then SMG seems a fair compromise; certainly better than triptronic. But, for myself, I want a manual. Here's why:
- SMG is a good try but it doesn't let you drive as smoothly as you can with a manual
- It has an automatic mode and I fear that once I used it in heavy traffic, I'd start using it more and more and eventually get lazy and never stop.
- Nothing (not SMG, not triptronic) feels as good as that lovely, smooth BMW six-speed manual.
Interesting note: I drove this car at a Breast Cancer Awareness rally at Passport BMW in Suburban Maryland. They had four or five various models and you could sign up to take one out for a drive by yourself without having some salesman breath down your neck. So I took the 530I for a 45 minute unchaperoned spin.
But, the couple who took it out after my wife and I brought it back, wrecked the thing! I didn't see it but someone who did told me there were no injuries but the hood was badly smashed. Moral: get to the head of the line.
Yes, the E60 530 is an impressive performer (as I like to say, typical BMW!). FYI, I got 0-60 in 6.9, 7.0, & 6.9 on three successive flat grade runs with my steptronic set in "sport drive" mode. As a result, I don`t put much reliability in some of the "trade rag" numbers and appraisals.
Since you`ve been driving an E39 540, you probably will be happier in an E60 545i in case you decide to trade. I tested one w/o SP, thus no active steering, and it has awesome HP & torque!
http://photos.yahoo.com/shipo
Let me know what y’all think.
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
For some reason, Yahoo! Pictures no longer allows you to view the full size picture via their web interface. If you really want a closer look, you can "Download" any or all and see them in full size.
Best Regards,
Shipo
You may want to look into it. The full-size pics came up fine on my browser. BTW, I like the wheels.
Regarding the wheels. Thanks! ;-) Yeah, when clean, I like them too.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Nice job on the wheels. I have the same and think that they are the best looking BMW has to offer (I also like the parallels that come on the M5). I have not hand cleaned my rims since I bought the car last May and they have a light gray film built up on them. They still look good after a wash but not as shiny as yours. I noticed your tread wear. I just replaced mine at about the same tread depth (mine had slightly uneven wear but not bad). I bought the Goodyear F1s and love them! I was going to go for the ContiSport Contact 2s again but I'm glad I opted for the Goodyears. Hard to argue with the TireRack comparison for 530i SP tires.So far they are very quiet and really stick in hard cornering. They also look very agressive. The driving dynamics took some getting used to at first which surprised me. Definitely more responsive in the corners than the Contis.
-John
Regarding the new rubber, I have been leaning toward the Goodyear F1s for a while now, that is with the exception of a brief period of indecision due to one recommendation to buy the Yokohama AVS ES100s instead. Fortunately LOTS of folks suggested that the ES100s were WAY noisy after only a short time on the road, and warned me off of them. I'm glad to hear that you like your F1s, I'm still six months or so away from new rubber but they are once again leading the pack to be my first choice.
General comment:
On a whim when I was remounting my summer tires this afternoon, I decided to try swapping the fronts for the rears. The good news is that while I only have about 4 miles on them since (a trip to the gas station to readjust the pressure), they seem to be MUCH quieter than they were last fall when I took them off. I'm headed to NYC and the "Gyeland" tomorrow, and I'll be back home on Thursday so I'll make my decision this weekend as to whether to leave them that way or swap them back to where they belong. I'll keep y'all posted. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
You are correct as it is a love - hate thing with these wheels. Once a year (no snows in the ATL) I pull the rims off one at a time and clean and wax them until you can eat off of them. Three days later they start to build up the dust so by the next weekend it's back to the high pressure wash at the gas station to clean them up somewhat.
My neighbors think I am nuts b/c I do this to all of our cars in Spring although this year one asked me to help him do the same to his MB E500. Once the warranty period is over I plan to use pads with much less dust which should cut down on the weekly cleanings.
At least the new Boxster will have the 5 spoke 18" Carrera wheels which should be much easier to clean like the 5 spoke Mille Miglia's on the GTI.
mtjohn : I think the Goodyears are the best ones for the E39, however, I have one question. Do the tires tramline or weave about on grooved highway, or do you not have these in your area. We here in California have to deal with grooved highways throughout the state, thanks for any feedback.
I'm thinking sport package 530i's must be kind of rare. I think I see either 540i or non-sport 530i most of the time.
As much as I like them, they would drive me nuts. I've found a couple of really good car washes in the bling-bling neighborhoods, and they really work on wiping everything down after the car gets out of the automatic wash. These guys will spend 8-10 minutes drying off the car and getting any spots missed. My M68s look better than they would after I've spent an hour on them at home.
I've been using them every other week for about the last four months and not a scratch on the car or the wheels. I feel guilty, but not a lot.
regards,
kyfdx
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Regards...JL
Best Regards,
Shipo
The next time you are in SoCal, you think you could drop in? I have a set of type 42s that could use your TLC. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
CR had E39 as its favorite. Not so with E60. Roundel compared 545 to E500 and results were very close. What is going on. 5-series always used to be best. Is competition that much better or is BMW falling. This is disturbing, because I always thought BMWs were "the ultimate driving machine."
On a different note, inspection light just went on at 29.2K. Also just paid most ever to fill tank $48.39 (18.9 gallons, $2.559 per gallon). If I had filled up at other station (most expensive in LA) down the street (at $2.999 for 91-octane) it would have been $56.68 for a tank of gas.