Given that I would need two sets of wheels/tires up here in NH regardless of which car I bought, and given that the base suspension setup is already pretty good on the E39 5er, I'd probably opt for the 530i. I'd use the factory wheels for my snows and then buy a nice set of 17x8 AT Italia wheels and some 235/45 R17s for my summer setup.
As a systems developer, that's my favorite way of getting things done. When someone asks me to help solve a particularly nasty problem that they've been bashing their heads against for a day or two, I often say, "Hmmm, time to cheat..." ;-)
Interesting response coming from a New Englander! LOL! But out here in Southern California, give me the 525 SP over the 530!
And not only did you cheat with the two sets of tires, but bringing up the brakes does NOT make the difference sooooooooooooooooo great as to even point that out. I stand by my opinion.
Regarding the tires, well, the fact of life around here is two sets, and one set will need to be snows regardless of what the other set is. Is that cheating? Yup, even in my book. ;-) Never the less, to get a car with 22% more power, a car that sprints to sixty 18% quicker (13% quicker than a 525i 5-Speed), and a car with substantially better stopping power, I'd opt for the 530i and remediate the wheels and tires (and maybe even the springs, shocks/struts and sway bars later on) any day. After all, upgrading the handling characteristics of a car is significantly less expensive than upgrading the power. Fortunately, I was able to justify the 530i AND the SP when I got mine. ;-)
Speaking of brakes, ummm, didn't I bring up the brakes before the question was even posed by kyfdx?
Anyway, as for the brakes not making a difference, well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I lived in SoCal a few years ago and took enough runs through the mountain roads north and east of San Diego to generate many a squishy brake pedal and smoking brakes. Given that the brakes on the 530i have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 percent greater swept area as compared to the 525i, I call that significant, even in SoCal.
The fact remains, the better the toys, the higher the price and BMW caters to us all by offering us so many choices. I chose mine, a 2002 530i, 5-Speed, Xenon, Premium Audio, PP and SP, and you chose yours, a 2003 525i, Automatic, PP and SP. I’m happy with mine knowing quite well that I couldn’t live with a 525i, you're happy with yours knowing that you saved $3,800 (using your number from a previous post) over a comparably equipped 530i. In the end, we’re all happy. ;-)
Your salesman is feeding you BS. When I bought my '03 530 I got a below invoice price, a factory rebate and 3.9% financing through BMW. That's a special case as the E39 was coming to the end of its run and BMW wanted to clear them out but if you pay BMW a visit near the end of a month and talk with a hungry salesperson, they'll deal. Keep an eye on the sales figures for the 5 series. If they start to go soft, start looking for incentives.
You stated: "I’m happy with mine knowing quite well that I couldn’t live with a 525i, you're happy with yours knowing that you saved $3,800 (using your number from a previous post) over a comparably equipped 530i. In the end, we’re all happy. ;-)" And with that I agree. It's called priorities. I could've easily paid the extra money and bought the 530. I didn't. I'm happy with my decision. Just like you're happy with yours and you also chose to drive a 5 speed instead of an automatic with a manumatic option that I have with my steptronic if I choose to do so.
BTW, since you lived in S. California, you would then appreciate why I switched from driving a manual (for 20 years) to driving an automatic. So Cal's perpetual parking lot is not kind to one's knees.
The bottom line: We both drive the cars we want and enjoy. They both happen to be 5 series Bimmers. We're BMW owners. We can afford them. That's a good thing.
So, they are finally waking up at BMW to the fact that the 525/530 are underpowered/overpriced. I will also predict that the 530/535 will be priced close to the current 525/530 pricing. Same thing happened in 2001 when 528 was replaced by the 530.
I think that those numbers are missing the mark, and by quite a margin. Why? Because IMHO the numbers for a new car that replaced a car that had been in production for nearly 8 years should by all rights be WAY up. Fifteen percent? What's up about that? If I remember correctly, back in 2002 the 5-Series sales numbers were substantially higher than they were in 2003, which was when folks start waiting for the new model. My guess is that once the new model bubble is fully deflated, the E60 sales numbers will fall back to the sales numbers of maybe fifteen or twenty years ago, which would be a disaster for BMW.
Hey you folks over at BMW! Do you have your ears on? Listen up, fix this turkey now before it's too late. By that I mean, clean up the uglies, inside and out, fix the software bugs and refine some of your leading/bleeding technology such as the Active Steering that comes with the SP and cannot be switched off.
If y'all are determined to stay the course, I'd suggest y'all watch yer sixes.
First I want to say I am a big BMW fan. I owned a MY99 528i and currently own a MY03 530i. But BMW needs to get back to basics with its 5-series product strategy and 1) provide industry leading price/performance, 2) an MSRP that is not above Mercedes, and 3) styling that is a bit more evolutionary.
If you look at the details of the R&T comparison, the 530 does pretty well in the price independent ratings finishing 3rd behind the Mercedes E320 and Cadillac. If the engine HP was 260 or so I am sure that it would have come in first. The next problem here is the pricing, pushing the BMW all the way back to 6th place!
To fix this, I recommend that the BMW marketing “strategists” quickly introduce a 530/535/545 product series where the 530/535 pricing lines up with the current 525/530 pricing. Other manufacturers are taking advantage of advanced engine technology that makes BMW look conservative in the marketplace. This is not how BMW should be positioned considering how long they have been on top. Time for some new product strategists at BMW corporate.
Now that I would agree with! BMW needs to elevate their HP but NOT their price. The competition has not only closed the gap, but in some ways surpassed the benchmark sport sedan just based on HP for the money alone. With what you stated, I would agree. It doesn't mean I like my 525 less, because I love the overall car very much. But I also paid a heck of alot less than the $45K sticker price on it for my E39, 2003. If BMWNA was not adding additional incentives, I would not nor could not justify paying that much for the vehicle based on the competition's HP coming from Infiniti, Acura and Lexus.
I was however, coming off of driving a 5 series, loved the car, the infamous BMW precision steering and wanted another one. I don't lease my cars, I buy them. Plus, I hated the design of the 2004 (See Shipo, we agree again!) and wanted to get a 2003 PP & SP with the extra incentives. I did.
In sum, BMW needs to upgrade their HP to match the competition without "socking" it to loyal long time BMW customers in their wallets. I think we all agree that we don't mind paying more for the "ultimate driving machine." We just don't want to get less than what the competition has out there.
I don't care if it has 900 horses. I still wouldn't buy it based on looks. I fully expect the 6 to be the best driving BMW ever made. It even has a nice looking cockpit and I could shrug off iDrive. But to me it looks like a boar running backward.
your numbers may be real at this juncture, but IMHO your analysis is skewed. We have to wait to see WHY certain numbers are off at the end of the entire season. Yes, the numbers presented so far do give us a snapshot of how poorly the 525/530 are faring, but again, we have to wait until an entire fiscal year has passed. Most of us, who don't like the new direction of the 5 Series can point to the poor styling inside and out, the silly I-Drive and the unnecessary feel of the adaptive steering. From a price point standard, I believe that the 545 gives the consumer the best overall value based on standard amenities and engine size.
But what should have the BMW corporation deeply concerned is not just the poor reviews and where the car finishes in head-to-head competition in the car magazines, but the poor sales figures when as compared to the E39. I think quantitatively, one would find those figures alarming.
One other thing: You sound soooooooooooo elated that the 525 is going to be discontinued based on an chat post from a sales guy at at BMW dealership? Huh? Maybe the guy does have some insight, but I wouldn't take that to the bank as gospel. I would however, agree that BMW MUST do something with its HP to price of the car ratio, just based on the competition and the poor car reviews.
What is more alarming is that CR also recently ranked the BMW 530 in a four way comparison of "Luxury Sedans" including MB E30, BMW 530, Jaguar S-Type and Volvo S80. BMW ranked behind the MB which was highly praised for its refinement from its engine to handling. The sad thing about the BMW was that CR had to take the car back to the dealer twice to fixed problems :IDrive and the Airbag warning light. The only "recommended" car among the four was the lowest ranked Volve which carries an average rating for reliability. Perhaps what should troubles us BMW enthusiasts, and BMW in particular, is that CR considers the current 530 model fares poorer in practically every performance perimeter over the model it has replaced. The unloved IDrive simply adds salt to the injury. It is time for BMW to take quick and decisive action to reverse this starting trend of negative perception. So the posting of the sales guy's alleged meeting could very well be true.
With full respect for your opinions, I have never seen an ugly BMW, nor have I ever driven one that I didn`t like ...and that includes the new 2004 5s. In fact, I ESPECIALLY like the design, I love the new iDrive (set it and forget it), the handling is typical "bimmer crisp", and I find the 530ia HP and torque QUITE exhilarating! Granted, I don`t drive regularly on skidpads or sloloms or drag strips, but after test driving numerous new Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, 350Z, RX-8, Infiniti and BMW cars, there`s nothing that gives me what I want in a car as does BMW ... and FYI, I do drive aggressively. Yes, you figured it out. I do own a new 2004 530ia (plus a 2003 325cic), and I just sold my `90 525ia, so you may wish to judge me as biased. No problem! By the way, I also like E39s as well. Bottom line, we can rest assured that BMW will keep improving their wonderful line of cars, but in the meantime, know that there are many of us who are very happy with what`s here now. So, guys and gals, keep wishing, keep hoping and pushing for better, but by all means, let`s keep enjoying what I think is still "The Ultimate Driving Machine".
As I haven't driven an E60 yet (I cannot get past the looks, inside or out, and shallow though it may be, how a car looks is VERY important to me), I've never opined about the iDrive and the Active Steering other than to suggest that the software bugs be worked out (I've only heard rumors regarding those) and to suggest that not everybody who wants to opt for the SP wants the Active steering. My suggestion regarding that issue is to allow it to be driver controlled (via iDrive maybe?). Conceptually I can understand why they went to all of the effort to develop such a steering system, I'm still not sure I understand the need. Why? Well, my E39 530i SP is quite easy to maneuver around town and was just as delightful to control at 130 on the Autobahn in Germany. So, I'm back to asking "Why?", except this time it's "Why did they do it at all?"
I plan to go for a test drive of a 645Ci in the near future, and if I'm not mistaken, I'll be able to sample both the iDrive and the Active Steering, and will then be able to offer my $0.02 on their real benefit to the driver. ;-)
Other than displacement, is BMW going to do anything else with the new engines? Any word as to whether some of the valvetronic technology on the V8 is going to migrate down to the I6?
If they do introduce new engines in the second model year and have the 530 at 525 prices and 535 at 530 prices, man are the people who bought the first model year going to be steamed!
Shipo, I agree with your comments re/active steering. That`s why I opted for prem. pkg. and not SP (in 2004). "Why" is a good question!It may be the next best technology, but not in my book after extensive driving before I bought. Besides, I didn`t want one bimmer with it and one without. It IS that sensitive (to me) at slow speeds. When you test the 545, you`ll likely love the HP & torque. Pretty awesome, but I didn`t need it ... tickets, that is!!!
And a note to REIZ re/June CR article. Please carefully note the list of HIGHS and LOWS. Give me a break!! They really had to strain on their LOWS not to mention that their test driver(s) obviously did not take time to get the facts right on the new iDrive. Their HIGHS are why most people buy a car! The numbers? Maybe. Maybe not. Go drive one and see what you think. And, hey, if they do make some displacement or HP changes in 2005, anyone unhappy with their 2004 can opt (hopefully) to trade.
And one more `04 530ia observation for what it`s worth (nothing, probably): My night vision needs all the help it can get. Therefore, I opted for xenons (with adaptive feature that turns the lights up to 15 deg. when the car turns). I LOVE THEM. The lighting is superior to my loaded 2003 325cic lights, so I don`t understand CR`s evaluation. Maybe CR had better stick with washing machines and low carb food evaluations! :-))
joe91... It is the most basic conclusion--that their E39 530i was better than the new E60 530i--that was devastating. The much more expensive car is not better. It is worse.
The new 530i just does NOT stand out either as an improvement over the E39 or against the competition. What is the old saying, two steps forward, three steps back?
You see, reiz, I love bimmers... all kinds. I wanted a new 5 series. I did not want to buy a used one even if the 2004 "numbers" as measured by some reports appear to be "a step back". I don`t care about that. I wanted, and got, a GREAT 530ia ... just as your `03 530 is a GREAT car! I`m sure you`ll keep enjoying it! I am certainly enjoying mine. And, hey, maybe the 2006 M5 as depicted in AutoWeek, 4/26, will become a reality and be the step forward you are looking for. It looks awesome, riez, bimmer friend.
joe91... I love great cars, regardless of marque. I used to own a '98 540i6 and a '00 323ia.
Can't say the future E60 M5 impresses me. Take the price. Ouch! No way I'm ever gonna afford one. And I'm no fan of gimmicky V10s. Give me an I6 or V8 any day. Not to mention the worst thing... horror of horrors, there appears to be only SMG. No true manual transmission with a clutch!!! No clutch, no M! 'nuff said.
ok, I've read the last week's or so posts. Here is my $0.02:
525 vs 530: Why I chose the 530 over the 525 - On a given day, my commute has three distinct parts, canyon driving, wide-open freeway autobaun-type driving and finally heavy stop and go traffic driving.
First is a 14 mile trip over the mountains and canyons. It is on a mostly 2-lane road with a few short passing areas. Believe me, when stuck behind slower cars and trucks, this can add 5 to 10 miles to the commute. When the passing lane is present (on an uphill grade), it is nice to have the power to accelerate quickly (and safely) by. My 530i, with a quick down shift or double down shift, makes it happen. I cannot say the same if I was driving a 525. My Lexis accelerates as fast as the 525, and I know it does not have the power to pass like the 530i. Also, when a sharp mountain curve approaches, and I am going too fast, the car saves me, it grips and slows and performs so that I have the confidence to go into a turn faster (there is a fun factor here as well as a safety factor).
The next part of my communte is a 7 mile sprint on a wide-open LA area freeway with light traffic (yes they do exist). Here again, the 530i gives me the confidence to effortlessly drive the fast lane at speeds I cannot print here. The last part of the commute consist of 5 miles in slow stop and go traffic. Here I don't need the power or handling of the 530 with SP. Driving stick is more work here. But the inconvenience here is more than made up for in the other parts of my commute.
My point is that the 525 is great if you do not need or use the power. For me, the extra horse power sold me on the car.
The car: I have less than 8 months left on my lease. I will feel sad to let the car go. It has almost 30K miles. Have not been in yet for the second service/oil change. Same tires. 2nd clutch. Broken cup-holder. I love the car.
I will not be getting the new 5-series. I am hoping the next generation 3 will be more to my liking, including having a more competitive price point (as compared to the 5) and a stronger engine (335?). The competition is better than ever. I love my 530i. I do not want to give it up. But I do not want to keep it after the warrantee period expires.
Before I turned in my old 328i, my dealer told me that he could "CPO" it, and then re-lease it to me. Were it not for the fact that I less than enamored by the early images of the E60, I might well have chosen that option. This time around I'm leaning toward re-leasing my 530i and either CPOing it or just trusting that this car will continue to be as reliable as it has been.
Of course, if I decide that I can justify a 645Ci then all bets are off. ;-)
I would find it hard to evaluate the new 5 without test driving one. Same goes for the 5-Series iDrive.
I was able to test drive the 530i non-SP with auto a few months back and thought the car was impressive. I am used to more power (2002 540i) than the 530i I drove. I would eventually like to drive the 545i SP to get a better comparison between the E39 and E60.
One can only get so much from reading the trade rags. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best car for their driving style. A test drive is the best way to evaluate a car.
I thought the iDrive was easy to figure out with ~10 minutes of fooling around with it. There are many cars that have a hundred little buttons all over the dash. I think that many times trying to find the correct little button could be more challenging than figuring out the iDrive.
First Active Steering: Reference shippo's remarks in msg# 8891. I got to spend 45 minutes driving a 530 with SP and SMG a week ago. AS is pretty handy maneuvering around parking lots and I suppose once you get accustomed to it, you won't be surprised by it when it engages as you slow down. But, is it worth $3300 because the marketing geniuses at BMW/NA make you buy the whole sports package to get AS? If you go on the German or UK BMW Web site, you'll discover you can order AS as an option by itself
Consequently, if I had the choice I think I'd opt out of the SP just to avoid the tire swap problem which is more hassle than the AS seems to be worth. But, I'm contemplating the 545 six-speed and won't have the option.
SMG: This isn't a manual but isn't triptronic either. It seems like the engineers in Ravensburg have cooked up what amounts to a system that does a fair job of mimicking a manual. You get the slight pause and bump between first and second and second and third. You sort of get the same feeling as a manual when you downshift. And, if you're stopped and select first, the car does not begin to creep forward like and automatic in Drive would. The system assumes you would, were this a manual, have engaged the clutch and wouldn't disengage it till you started accelerating so, in first, the SMG equipped car doesn't move till you step on the gas. Ditto in reverse.
If you can't get a manual, then SMG seems a fair compromise; certainly better than triptronic. But, for myself, I want a manual. Here's why:
- SMG is a good try but it doesn't let you drive as smoothly as you can with a manual - It has an automatic mode and I fear that once I used it in heavy traffic, I'd start using it more and more and eventually get lazy and never stop. - Nothing (not SMG, not triptronic) feels as good as that lovely, smooth BMW six-speed manual.
Interesting note: I drove this car at a Breast Cancer Awareness rally at Passport BMW in Suburban Maryland. They had four or five various models and you could sign up to take one out for a drive by yourself without having some salesman breath down your neck. So I took the 530I for a 45 minute unchaperoned spin.
But, the couple who took it out after my wife and I brought it back, wrecked the thing! I didn't see it but someone who did told me there were no injuries but the hood was badly smashed. Moral: get to the head of the line.
stl540, I agree with your 8902 comments, and I`m glad to see that I`m not the only one who finds iDrive easy and even preferable. In general, I do not like active steering, so I opted to purchase a 530ia with PP & without SP.
Yes, the E60 530 is an impressive performer (as I like to say, typical BMW!). FYI, I got 0-60 in 6.9, 7.0, & 6.9 on three successive flat grade runs with my steptronic set in "sport drive" mode. As a result, I don`t put much reliability in some of the "trade rag" numbers and appraisals.
Since you`ve been driving an E39 540, you probably will be happier in an E60 545i in case you decide to trade. I tested one w/o SP, thus no active steering, and it has awesome HP & torque!
..., how I LOVE them, how I HATE them. ;-) These wheels were (arguably) some of the best looking wheels available on the E39 5-Series, however they are (arguably) some of the hardest to keep clean. :-/ After finally giving up attempting to keep them clean during the summer of 2002, and after 10,000 or so miles with just carwash cleanings, I just did a complete (or as complete as I was able) cleaning of them using P21S Wheel Cleaner and WheelWax, and lots of elbow grease. I am pleased enough with the results to want to show off the fruits of my labor, so I took a few pictures along with a tread detail of both of the right side tires. Simply click on the following link and then click on the "Type 42 Wheels 10-May-2004" album.
P.S. For some reason, Yahoo! Pictures no longer allows you to view the full size picture via their web interface. If you really want a closer look, you can "Download" any or all and see them in full size.
It just occured to me that my statement of "...after 10,000 or so miles..." is a little understated. That set of wheels probably has more like 14,000 miles on them.
Shipo: Nice job on the wheels. I have the same and think that they are the best looking BMW has to offer (I also like the parallels that come on the M5). I have not hand cleaned my rims since I bought the car last May and they have a light gray film built up on them. They still look good after a wash but not as shiny as yours. I noticed your tread wear. I just replaced mine at about the same tread depth (mine had slightly uneven wear but not bad). I bought the Goodyear F1s and love them! I was going to go for the ContiSport Contact 2s again but I'm glad I opted for the Goodyears. Hard to argue with the TireRack comparison for 530i SP tires.So far they are very quiet and really stick in hard cornering. They also look very agressive. The driving dynamics took some getting used to at first which surprised me. Definitely more responsive in the corners than the Contis. -John
Regarding the new rubber, I have been leaning toward the Goodyear F1s for a while now, that is with the exception of a brief period of indecision due to one recommendation to buy the Yokohama AVS ES100s instead. Fortunately LOTS of folks suggested that the ES100s were WAY noisy after only a short time on the road, and warned me off of them. I'm glad to hear that you like your F1s, I'm still six months or so away from new rubber but they are once again leading the pack to be my first choice.
General comment:
On a whim when I was remounting my summer tires this afternoon, I decided to try swapping the fronts for the rears. The good news is that while I only have about 4 miles on them since (a trip to the gas station to readjust the pressure), they seem to be MUCH quieter than they were last fall when I took them off. I'm headed to NYC and the "Gyeland" tomorrow, and I'll be back home on Thursday so I'll make my decision this weekend as to whether to leave them that way or swap them back to where they belong. I'll keep y'all posted. ;-)
You are correct as it is a love - hate thing with these wheels. Once a year (no snows in the ATL) I pull the rims off one at a time and clean and wax them until you can eat off of them. Three days later they start to build up the dust so by the next weekend it's back to the high pressure wash at the gas station to clean them up somewhat.
My neighbors think I am nuts b/c I do this to all of our cars in Spring although this year one asked me to help him do the same to his MB E500. Once the warranty period is over I plan to use pads with much less dust which should cut down on the weekly cleanings.
At least the new Boxster will have the 5 spoke 18" Carrera wheels which should be much easier to clean like the 5 spoke Mille Miglia's on the GTI.
Firstly, let me congratulate you, Shipo , on your immaculately clean rims. I have the same on my 530i (2001) and love them. I thought I kept mine clean till I saw yours. I did notice from your pictures that you will need new tires pretty soon. My Primacy's have 18,000 mi. now but still look like new ! Tread depth is exceptional. The Goodyears are the way to go. mtjohn : I think the Goodyears are the best ones for the E39, however, I have one question. Do the tires tramline or weave about on grooved highway, or do you not have these in your area. We here in California have to deal with grooved highways throughout the state, thanks for any feedback.
I like the "industrial look" of the wheels.. Like it has been riveted together. I don't know why I haven't noticed them on any 5-series around here.
I'm thinking sport package 530i's must be kind of rare. I think I see either 540i or non-sport 530i most of the time.
As much as I like them, they would drive me nuts. I've found a couple of really good car washes in the bling-bling neighborhoods, and they really work on wiping everything down after the car gets out of the automatic wash. These guys will spend 8-10 minutes drying off the car and getting any spots missed. My M68s look better than they would after I've spent an hour on them at home.
I've been using them every other week for about the last four months and not a scratch on the car or the wheels. I feel guilty, but not a lot.
suggest you replace the OEM brake pads with Axxis Deluxe Plus pads. These pads are not dust free, but reduce it by 90-95%. Even though I now have 66M wheels on my 2003 530i, I still have my original Styling 42 wheels in the garage. They have less than 500 miles on them.
Thanks for the tip. Oddly enough, I have been on the verge of buying the PBR/Axxis "Original Deluxe" pads for some time, and just pulled the trigger on them this afternoon. I didn't even know there was a "Deluxe Plus" version of the pads. I just looked them up on the PBR web site http://www.pbrbrakes.com and based upon what I found, I would probably rather have the brakes that you are running. :-( In any event, I'll post my findings, and if I don't like them, I'll switch to the "Deluxe Plus" pads.
Great looking wheels! Well worth all your efforts. The next time you are in SoCal, you think you could drop in? I have a set of type 42s that could use your TLC. ;-)
E60 did not fair well against its competition in a major mag comparison and 530 was also most expensive (as tested), even over E320.
CR had E39 as its favorite. Not so with E60. Roundel compared 545 to E500 and results were very close. What is going on. 5-series always used to be best. Is competition that much better or is BMW falling. This is disturbing, because I always thought BMWs were "the ultimate driving machine."
On a different note, inspection light just went on at 29.2K. Also just paid most ever to fill tank $48.39 (18.9 gallons, $2.559 per gallon). If I had filled up at other station (most expensive in LA) down the street (at $2.999 for 91-octane) it would have been $56.68 for a tank of gas.
Comments
525 with sport package
or
530 without sport package
Which would it be?
E39 model, just to keep it simple.
hhhmmmmmm
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Best Regards,
Shipo
I would vote for the 525i with sport..
(Shipo: I knew you would find a way to cheat a little bit..LOL)
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Best Regards,
Shipo
;-)
Mrs. Shipo for President! ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
-Paul
And not only did you cheat with the two sets of tires, but bringing up the brakes does NOT make the difference sooooooooooooooooo great as to even point that out. I stand by my opinion.
Best regards,
MRC
Speaking of brakes, ummm, didn't I bring up the brakes before the question was even posed by kyfdx?
Anyway, as for the brakes not making a difference, well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I lived in SoCal a few years ago and took enough runs through the mountain roads north and east of San Diego to generate many a squishy brake pedal and smoking brakes. Given that the brakes on the 530i have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 percent greater swept area as compared to the 525i, I call that significant, even in SoCal.
The fact remains, the better the toys, the higher the price and BMW caters to us all by offering us so many choices. I chose mine, a 2002 530i, 5-Speed, Xenon, Premium Audio, PP and SP, and you chose yours, a 2003 525i, Automatic, PP and SP. I’m happy with mine knowing quite well that I couldn’t live with a 525i, you're happy with yours knowing that you saved $3,800 (using your number from a previous post) over a comparably equipped 530i. In the end, we’re all happy. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
BTW, since you lived in S. California, you would then appreciate why I switched from driving a manual (for 20 years) to driving an automatic. So Cal's perpetual parking lot is not kind to one's knees.
The bottom line: We both drive the cars we want and enjoy. They both happen to be 5 series Bimmers. We're BMW owners. We can afford them. That's a good thing.
So, they are finally waking up at BMW to the fact that the 525/530 are underpowered/overpriced. I will also predict that the 530/535 will be priced close to the current 525/530 pricing. Same thing happened in 2001 when 528 was replaced by the 530.
E39 E60
YTD 2003 YTD 2004
525 4,923 5,442 11%
530 6,309 6,359 1%
540/545 1,549 2,864 85%
12,781 14,665 15%
Only the 545 has seen a significant increase in sales with an 85% increase in units.
Hey you folks over at BMW! Do you have your ears on? Listen up, fix this turkey now before it's too late. By that I mean, clean up the uglies, inside and out, fix the software bugs and refine some of your leading/bleeding technology such as the Active Steering that comes with the SP and cannot be switched off.
If y'all are determined to stay the course, I'd suggest y'all watch yer sixes.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If you look at the details of the R&T comparison, the 530 does pretty well in the price independent ratings finishing 3rd behind the Mercedes E320 and Cadillac. If the engine HP was 260 or so I am sure that it would have come in first. The next problem here is the pricing, pushing the BMW all the way back to 6th place!
To fix this, I recommend that the BMW marketing “strategists” quickly introduce a 530/535/545 product series where the 530/535 pricing lines up with the current 525/530 pricing. Other manufacturers are taking advantage of advanced engine technology that makes BMW look conservative in the marketplace. This is not how BMW should be positioned considering how long they have been on top. Time for some new product strategists at BMW corporate.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was however, coming off of driving a 5 series, loved the car, the infamous BMW precision steering and wanted another one. I don't lease my cars, I buy them. Plus, I hated the design of the 2004 (See Shipo, we agree again!) and wanted to get a 2003 PP & SP with the extra incentives. I did.
In sum, BMW needs to upgrade their HP to match the competition without "socking" it to loyal long time BMW customers in their wallets. I think we all agree that we don't mind paying more for the "ultimate driving machine." We just don't want to get less than what the competition has out there.
But what should have the BMW corporation deeply concerned is not just the poor reviews and where the car finishes in head-to-head competition in the car magazines, but the poor sales figures when as compared to the E39. I think quantitatively, one would find those figures alarming.
One other thing: You sound soooooooooooo elated that the 525 is going to be discontinued based on an chat post from a sales guy at at BMW dealership? Huh? Maybe the guy does have some insight, but I wouldn't take that to the bank as gospel. I would however, agree that BMW MUST do something with its HP to price of the car ratio, just based on the competition and the poor car reviews.
The only "recommended" car among the four was the lowest ranked Volve which carries an average rating for reliability. Perhaps what should troubles us BMW enthusiasts, and BMW in particular, is that CR considers the current 530 model fares poorer in practically every performance perimeter over the model it has replaced. The unloved IDrive simply adds salt to the injury. It is time for BMW to take quick and decisive action to reverse this starting trend of negative perception. So the posting of the sales guy's alleged meeting could very well be true.
I plan to go for a test drive of a 645Ci in the near future, and if I'm not mistaken, I'll be able to sample both the iDrive and the Active Steering, and will then be able to offer my $0.02 on their real benefit to the driver. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
If they do introduce new engines in the second model year and have the 530 at 525 prices and 535 at 530 prices, man are the people who bought the first model year going to be steamed!
"Overall, the previous-generation 530i scored better than this one [a 2004 E60 530ia], despite its smaller interior space."
Not sure that is a great thing for a car that had an as-tested MSRP of $53,095.
Their car had automatic transmission, Prem Pkg, and prem sound.
0-60 mph: 7.4 secs
1/4 mile: 15.7 secs
60-0 ft braking: 127 ft
Actual fuel economy: 20 overall (14city/29hwy)
Noticed they give the car their lowest rating for "Headlights".
And a note to REIZ re/June CR article. Please carefully note the list of HIGHS and LOWS. Give me a break!! They really had to strain on their LOWS not to mention that their test driver(s) obviously did not take time to get the facts right on the new iDrive. Their HIGHS are why most people buy a car! The numbers? Maybe. Maybe not. Go drive one and see what you think. And, hey, if they do make some displacement or HP changes in 2005, anyone unhappy with their 2004 can opt (hopefully) to trade.
Best regards, bimmer lovers!
:-))
The new 530i just does NOT stand out either as an improvement over the E39 or against the competition. What is the old saying, two steps forward, three steps back?
Can't say the future E60 M5 impresses me. Take the price. Ouch! No way I'm ever gonna afford one. And I'm no fan of gimmicky V10s. Give me an I6 or V8 any day. Not to mention the worst thing... horror of horrors, there appears to be only SMG. No true manual transmission with a clutch!!! No clutch, no M! 'nuff said.
525 vs 530: Why I chose the 530 over the 525 - On a given day, my commute has three distinct parts, canyon driving, wide-open freeway autobaun-type driving and finally heavy stop and go traffic driving.
First is a 14 mile trip over the mountains and canyons. It is on a mostly 2-lane road with a few short passing areas. Believe me, when stuck behind slower cars and trucks, this can add 5 to 10 miles to the commute. When the passing lane is present (on an uphill grade), it is nice to have the power to accelerate quickly (and safely) by. My 530i, with a quick down shift or double down shift, makes it happen. I cannot say the same if I was driving a 525. My Lexis accelerates as fast as the 525, and I know it does not have the power to pass like the 530i. Also, when a sharp mountain curve approaches, and I am going too fast, the car saves me, it grips and slows and performs so that I have the confidence to go into a turn faster (there is a fun factor here as well as a safety factor).
The next part of my communte is a 7 mile sprint on a wide-open LA area freeway with light traffic (yes they do exist). Here again, the 530i gives me the confidence to effortlessly drive the fast lane at speeds I cannot print here. The last part of the commute consist of 5 miles in slow stop and go traffic. Here I don't need the power or handling of the 530 with SP. Driving stick is more work here. But the inconvenience here is more than made up for in the other parts of my commute.
My point is that the 525 is great if you do not need or use the power. For me, the extra horse power sold me on the car.
The car: I have less than 8 months left on my lease. I will feel sad to let the car go. It has almost 30K miles. Have not been in yet for the second service/oil change. Same tires. 2nd clutch. Broken cup-holder. I love the car.
I will not be getting the new 5-series. I am hoping the next generation 3 will be more to my liking, including having a more competitive price point (as compared to the 5) and a stronger engine (335?). The competition is better than ever. I love my 530i. I do not want to give it up. But I do not want to keep it after the warrantee period expires.
Of course, if I decide that I can justify a 645Ci then all bets are off. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
An very low optioned E39 525i with 5-speed manual Sport Pkg was a very nice car at a decent price, esp. when it first came out.
Not so sure about the E60 525i. Now MSRP is above $40,000. Even worse, the Sport Pkg comes with run-flat tires and the Active Steering.
Most E60 530i on dealer lots have MSRPs over $50,000. The ones being tested by car magazines have been in the $50-55K range. Ouch!
I was able to test drive the 530i non-SP with auto a few months back and thought the car was impressive. I am used to more power (2002 540i) than the 530i I drove. I would eventually like to drive the 545i SP to get a better comparison between the E39 and E60.
One can only get so much from reading the trade rags. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best car for their driving style. A test drive is the best way to evaluate a car.
I thought the iDrive was easy to figure out with ~10 minutes of fooling around with it. There are many cars that have a hundred little buttons all over the dash. I think that many times trying to find the correct little button could be more challenging than figuring out the iDrive.
Consequently, if I had the choice I think I'd opt out of the SP just to avoid the tire swap problem which is more hassle than the AS seems to be worth. But, I'm contemplating the 545 six-speed and won't have the option.
SMG: This isn't a manual but isn't triptronic either. It seems like the engineers in Ravensburg have cooked up what amounts to a system that does a fair job of mimicking a manual. You get the slight pause and bump between first and second and second and third. You sort of get the same feeling as a manual when you downshift. And, if you're stopped and select first, the car does not begin to creep forward like and automatic in Drive would. The system assumes you would, were this a manual, have engaged the clutch and wouldn't disengage it till you started accelerating so, in first, the SMG equipped car doesn't move till you step on the gas. Ditto in reverse.
If you can't get a manual, then SMG seems a fair compromise; certainly better than triptronic. But, for myself, I want a manual. Here's why:
- SMG is a good try but it doesn't let you drive as smoothly as you can with a manual
- It has an automatic mode and I fear that once I used it in heavy traffic, I'd start using it more and more and eventually get lazy and never stop.
- Nothing (not SMG, not triptronic) feels as good as that lovely, smooth BMW six-speed manual.
Interesting note: I drove this car at a Breast Cancer Awareness rally at Passport BMW in Suburban Maryland. They had four or five various models and you could sign up to take one out for a drive by yourself without having some salesman breath down your neck. So I took the 530I for a 45 minute unchaperoned spin.
But, the couple who took it out after my wife and I brought it back, wrecked the thing! I didn't see it but someone who did told me there were no injuries but the hood was badly smashed. Moral: get to the head of the line.
Yes, the E60 530 is an impressive performer (as I like to say, typical BMW!). FYI, I got 0-60 in 6.9, 7.0, & 6.9 on three successive flat grade runs with my steptronic set in "sport drive" mode. As a result, I don`t put much reliability in some of the "trade rag" numbers and appraisals.
Since you`ve been driving an E39 540, you probably will be happier in an E60 545i in case you decide to trade. I tested one w/o SP, thus no active steering, and it has awesome HP & torque!
http://photos.yahoo.com/shipo
Let me know what y’all think.
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
For some reason, Yahoo! Pictures no longer allows you to view the full size picture via their web interface. If you really want a closer look, you can "Download" any or all and see them in full size.
Best Regards,
Shipo
You may want to look into it. The full-size pics came up fine on my browser. BTW, I like the wheels.
Regarding the wheels. Thanks! ;-) Yeah, when clean, I like them too.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Nice job on the wheels. I have the same and think that they are the best looking BMW has to offer (I also like the parallels that come on the M5). I have not hand cleaned my rims since I bought the car last May and they have a light gray film built up on them. They still look good after a wash but not as shiny as yours. I noticed your tread wear. I just replaced mine at about the same tread depth (mine had slightly uneven wear but not bad). I bought the Goodyear F1s and love them! I was going to go for the ContiSport Contact 2s again but I'm glad I opted for the Goodyears. Hard to argue with the TireRack comparison for 530i SP tires.So far they are very quiet and really stick in hard cornering. They also look very agressive. The driving dynamics took some getting used to at first which surprised me. Definitely more responsive in the corners than the Contis.
-John
Regarding the new rubber, I have been leaning toward the Goodyear F1s for a while now, that is with the exception of a brief period of indecision due to one recommendation to buy the Yokohama AVS ES100s instead. Fortunately LOTS of folks suggested that the ES100s were WAY noisy after only a short time on the road, and warned me off of them. I'm glad to hear that you like your F1s, I'm still six months or so away from new rubber but they are once again leading the pack to be my first choice.
General comment:
On a whim when I was remounting my summer tires this afternoon, I decided to try swapping the fronts for the rears. The good news is that while I only have about 4 miles on them since (a trip to the gas station to readjust the pressure), they seem to be MUCH quieter than they were last fall when I took them off. I'm headed to NYC and the "Gyeland" tomorrow, and I'll be back home on Thursday so I'll make my decision this weekend as to whether to leave them that way or swap them back to where they belong. I'll keep y'all posted. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
You are correct as it is a love - hate thing with these wheels. Once a year (no snows in the ATL) I pull the rims off one at a time and clean and wax them until you can eat off of them. Three days later they start to build up the dust so by the next weekend it's back to the high pressure wash at the gas station to clean them up somewhat.
My neighbors think I am nuts b/c I do this to all of our cars in Spring although this year one asked me to help him do the same to his MB E500. Once the warranty period is over I plan to use pads with much less dust which should cut down on the weekly cleanings.
At least the new Boxster will have the 5 spoke 18" Carrera wheels which should be much easier to clean like the 5 spoke Mille Miglia's on the GTI.
mtjohn : I think the Goodyears are the best ones for the E39, however, I have one question. Do the tires tramline or weave about on grooved highway, or do you not have these in your area. We here in California have to deal with grooved highways throughout the state, thanks for any feedback.
I'm thinking sport package 530i's must be kind of rare. I think I see either 540i or non-sport 530i most of the time.
As much as I like them, they would drive me nuts. I've found a couple of really good car washes in the bling-bling neighborhoods, and they really work on wiping everything down after the car gets out of the automatic wash. These guys will spend 8-10 minutes drying off the car and getting any spots missed. My M68s look better than they would after I've spent an hour on them at home.
I've been using them every other week for about the last four months and not a scratch on the car or the wheels. I feel guilty, but not a lot.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Regards...JL
Best Regards,
Shipo
The next time you are in SoCal, you think you could drop in? I have a set of type 42s that could use your TLC. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
CR had E39 as its favorite. Not so with E60. Roundel compared 545 to E500 and results were very close. What is going on. 5-series always used to be best. Is competition that much better or is BMW falling. This is disturbing, because I always thought BMWs were "the ultimate driving machine."
On a different note, inspection light just went on at 29.2K. Also just paid most ever to fill tank $48.39 (18.9 gallons, $2.559 per gallon). If I had filled up at other station (most expensive in LA) down the street (at $2.999 for 91-octane) it would have been $56.68 for a tank of gas.