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Comments
M
I'm surprised you went back for another look at MB when you needed the second car. reconfirming an earlier conclusion?
The only car I'd trade my business car in for is the SC430. That things is gorgeous inside and out and rides like a dream and everyone stares at it. Plus the ML in it is incredible because of the small size. But good luck finding one over there. Long wait. Maybe next time if I'm still commuting by car.
Hey - while I have your attention - have you been to Nicholas restaurant in Red Bank?
I've never been to Nicholas. I've heard it's quite good and dinner runs around $100 pp. We like Buena Sera and the Fromagerie.
We may go to Newfoundland this summer. My wife was adopted from a maternity home in Nova Scotia (terrible place - they signed fixed price contracts to care for the infants until adopted, and then starved "unmarketable" babies to death or stole babies if they had a buyer but no suitable children). We found her birth family about 5 years ago, still living in the Halifax area. Their roots go back to a tiny island (population 40 then, now uninhabited)off the coast of NF. We've been back to Nova Scotia often, but have not made it to her "native homeland" yet. In any event, I want to take the ferries and drive. She thinks I'm nuts. I want to take the car on a road trip, and this seems like a great opportunity.
Fromagerie is a great restaurant and one of our favorites. I'll let you know about Nicholas as I'm going in mid Feb.
In pursuit of perfection...
M
Chalk up another win for the LS430. With all these trophys, you would think the competion would come out with something better.
Nevertheless, the conclusion is true: The Lexus LS430 is the BEST luxury sedan available in America, bar none.
M
By the way - I've read several comments now about how well the new 7 rides. Could it be that it rides like an LS430 with an exceptionally smooth engine?
M
M
As for the Taurus issue - that's subjective of course, just as your views are, but it seems that many people, including MB enthusiasts are also seeing it. I happen to like the Taurus, usually pick it as a rental when I'm on the road, so at least from me it's not a negative thing. It also wouldn't deter me from buying the car.
AMCI does Lexus favored testing and it's pure BS. But Mercedes advertising claims are pure truth. Get a life. ANd I find it hard to swallow that a Mercedes fan is talking about Lexus dealers being snotty. Boy, I own 2 Lexi and have owned Benz and have recently shopped Benz, and alot of Benz dealers are snotty, and you guessed it, they act like they sell Bentley's when they are selling $30K hatchbacks.
antiosama,
Well I tell you what. If were my age and color and not wearing a suit/tie you'd understand what I'm talking about. I've never been in a Mercedes dealership that didn't appreciate the chance to ask me if I needed help. The Lexus dealer here in Naperville IL is so snotty to the point that even when "younger" (i.e under 30) people come in to look at their younger car (IS300) they still don't want to be bothered. I've never had that happen at a Mercedes dealer unless I was looking at something over 100K, then they kinda look at you funny. Which is *somewhat* understandable. You can't tell me what I've experienced. Period. So swallow now... Yeah they're selling 30K hatchbacks, right along with 130K SL600's too. My point Lexus has some gall to try and come off like they are amoung the upper car brands of this world, like Bentley, Ferrari and the like. Especially when their most expensive car is around 70K. All that fuss over an extension of Toyota. Please.
Please tell me what Mercedes "advertising claim" wasn't based on truth? I'm dying to hear that one.
Who even said anything about what Mercedes was claiming? They aren't claiming anything along the lines of AMCI does when asked by the same company to "verify" claims.
M
The LS430 is all about smoothness and refinement with easy power and great ergonomics, not squealing tires, burnouts, and aggressive turns.
It's not trying to be all things to all people.
bitkahuna,
On the LS430's target demographic, I'm not so sure you're right about that. It is trying to be everything to everyone in it's class, which it isn't. Just about all Toyota products try an do just that. The other cars in the LS430's class are simply more "fun". And it's not like the others are completely noise-filled hard riding cars either, the S-Class surely isn't. We're talking about being quieter by a decibel or two right? Yet the LS430's "Euro" suspension option does very little to liven the car up compared to say an S500 Sport or A8.
M
YOur local Lexus dealer in Naperville is just one dealer. How did you come to the conclusion that all must be snoty or alot, or most? As I said before, alot of Benz dealers are much more snooty than Lexus dealers. And how many $120K cars do you think the average Mercedes dealer sells in a month? I would bet the average dealer would be lucky to sell ONE. What cars are they selling the vast majority of? $30K to $40K C-class's and $45K to $60K E-class's. Nothing to get snooty about. Even though, I'm white and in my 40's, I have gotten the arrogant attitude from more than one Mercedes dealer in the Pennsylvania area.
And wake up, all car makers use false claims. YOu're telling me mercedes ads don't make outrageous claims, sometimes? I can't think of any particular recent ads, because I haven't been watching to much TV lately, but I sure as hell remember early ML ads making far out claims. My point: Every car maker over exaggerates the truth.
To reply to your post to bitkahuna, how ironic you say that, considering alot of things a certain Mercedes fan says are insanely ludicrous.
I always love your comments about all the fun and performance the other cars provide. Most of that engineering is going to waste. Just look at how the people drive them on the road. It hardly befits all the excess performance they build in. Yes some drivers go real fast but thats about equal to the percentage of LS430 drivers that do the same. It's not the cars - its the demographic segment. That's why the auto mag reviews are nonsense. They evaluate them vs. a Porsche not vs. the driver segment that will buy them. None of these cars are sports cars. All of them are luxury cars and the latter is what the segment wants. That also accounts for the many German lux car buyers who, when they finally sit in a Lexus LS430 are amazed at how well it rides and how well it's made.
Bitkahuna - glad to see you back.
ljflx,
All that performace goes to waste right? Well if thats the case a 290hp LS430 is a waste too because according to you the performance side of the car is never needed or warranted. That doesn't hold up because the 7-Series is a very popular car that trades on being "sporty". Not hearing the engine no fun at all to me and obviously some others who enjoy a true European style car, not one that's trying to be European. If you're going to look at it like that then nobody needs a V8 car period a nice 6-cylinder car will suit just fine. I have yet to see a luxury car compared to a Porsche..and if performance doesn't matter they why is every single manufacturer out their trying their best to be "sportier" with each re-do of their cars? Somehow I doubt 7-Series, especially the 740i Sport and S55 drivers putt along like LS430 drivers do...again on average.
M
M
On the other hand, when you go into a MB dealer, you're probably drooling...
fxashun,
You're probably missing one key aspect of the whole thing. Just maybe.
ljflx,
There is one dealer that I would buy a Lexus from if I ever wanted one. Woodfield Lexus in Schaumburg. Different attitude all together from the rest. Naperville Lexus is the worst.
M
I bought my car at age 27, and my friend bought his at age 26. The age was never an issue with the delaers we visited.
The only problem I had was with Lexus of Highland Park. But that was with the owner, not the salesperson.
feverhart,
Yep saw it. No disclosure on what exactly they found. I addressed that article in the Cadillac forum "Break through" in the News and Views" section. According to Auto, Motor und Sport, Mercedes is still in the top three in Germany so unless they want to disclose what they found I'm not too wooried about that particular "finding". Though I never said Mercedes didn't have their issues to begin with.
lenscap,
I forgot about Bredemann. How could I have forgotten. That is where I actually drove the IS300. Now they were "right" in every way.
M
That was some super bowl. I was going to mention that I was pulling for the Pats and thought that they had a decent shot. But you'd probably not believe me at this point.
M
I also happen to know several people with LS430s, making over $300K a year, as the average LS430 buyer tends to be financially well off. They could easily lease or purchase the $100K cars you speak of, but I believe they became wealthy, because they recognized the virtue of value over longstanding prestige.
When I went, the salesman did look at me funny, and probably didn't give me as much attention as he would someone older. A bit put off, I later called up the sales manager, who promptly spent his afternoon explaining the virtues of the car, and offering us over $3000 off MSRP to start negotiations. He was a really nice guy, and wanted to make amends. I don't blame them for initally being incredulous given my age, but I brought my parents and we drove away 3 days later with a new mystic sea opalescent LS430.
Basically, merc1 seems to be judging the car based on his bad experiences at the dealerships, when the car itself is not at fault. Really, aren't you judging the car by the awful salespeople you met, and most likely this has made you despise the car they sell. Evaluating the car on its own, will probably leave a different impression.
But, whatever you decide, the group on this discussion board made the choice they did, because this car fit their lifestyle. There is no doubt that most on this board can also afford the S class or SL that you dream about, so no need to argue about who can afford what at what dealership. Just enjoy the cars and be thankful that not all cars are the same. Honestly, I don't think my mom would like the S series as much, and there's no way my dad could figure out the new 7 series. He still hasn't figured out our VCR. =D Cheers.
M
He adds that he "just gets argumentative when Lexus fans try to make it seem that Lexus is the saviour of the luxury car market and nothing else before Lexus mattered." First, this is a Lexus board and is most likely to have Lexus "fans". We also do a fair amount of Lexus criticism. But I don't really recall anyone claiming Lexus as a saviour or that nothing before Lexus mattered.
This has all come up before and we all tried to agree to disagree. It seems it all re-started when merc1 vehemently objected to Lexus winning a survey on overall quality, etc. Given his extraordinary bias to Benz, he just couldn't accept it. Fine, he doesn't have to. Nor does he have to accept a separate finding by Automobile Mag, or others. Nor does he have to accept the survey in Germany stating the hefty continual drop in Benz quality - which even the Benz corporate types admitted to.
But I must say, in my opinion, I can understand how a professional salesperson in a Lexus dealership can get a sense of these issues when approached by someone so totally opposed to the product. Merc1 might not think he shows his attitude, but it's there for many to see.
Nothing personal in this, merc1, I just don't agree with you on these subjects. As we've said so many times in the past, much of this is very subjective and we all have the right to our opinions. You included. But really, buddy, you need to lighten up. They're just cars (very fine cars, all). Nothing to get so angry over. If you ever buy a Benz, I hope you are happy with it. But allow us to be happy with our choice as well. (apologies to all for length)
Want to talk about busy dealers on Saturday? One dealer near me, Bredemann, only washes cars on Saturday. Therefore, the line is really long, especially in the summer. So when the building was built they included a room off to the side where breakfast is served while people wait for their car to be washed.
This became so big that the dealer two years ago enlarged this room so it is now huge. The breakfast is now all catered and tables and chairs are set up for the masses of people that come every Saturday.
Of course, you must have bought your car there to get these perks.
It's like a Lexus country club.