Lexus LS 400/LS 430

syswei · October 2003

I went there once years ago in the summertime, and visited Tanglewood (outdoors, classical music concerts) and Jacob's Pillow (modern dance place)...the latter may well be summer only. Try http://www.massvisit.net/ or http://www.westernmassvisit.net/ as a start (found them on google, haven't checked them out).

feverhart · October 2003

Thanks, Flint, for the info on the Nav update. I agree that the update is still too expensive. The updates for Travroute CoPilot Nav is $99. It's an excellent voice (male or female) actuated unit. I'm using the Pocket PC version with the GPS intergated through bluetooth on the Ipaq 2210 in my Suburban. Works great.

ljflx · October 2003

Though not offered directly, and it is unlikely you'll ever see it on a Lexus car lot, I have been told that you can make a custom order for the custom lux package in combination with the euro suspension and the 18" wheels.

wbwynn · October 2003

Got a letter from lexus on this. What does this amount to?

ronjonaz · October 2003

As it turns out, Lexus delivers different models to each region of the country per prior sales in that region. The west coast apparently sells more Ultra models than Custom models and therefore very few Custom models are delivered to the west coast. On the other hand, the east coast sells more Custom models than Ultra models. Therefore, more Custom models are delivered to the east coast. The Custom models are currently available on the east coast and very few if any are available on the west coast. In order to have a Custom model delivered to the west coast (Arizona) the transportation cost is somewhere between $1500 and $4000 depending on the deal that can be negotiated between regional managers.

ljflx · October 2003

Lionel Ritchie's greatest hits (double set) sounds fantastic on the ML. I'm also a big Bryan Adams fan and his music also is a must for me on long trips. The Righteous Brothers Unchained Melody remains my favorite song of all time so I always have their best hits cd on hand. I also can't be without Steve Perry and Journey and I love Paul Mcartney's live CD, particularly Hey Jude which remains my #2 alltime favorite.

By the way did you see Paul Mcartney in Red aquare on A&E. It was fantastic.

zdude · October 2003

liflx, I asked my dealer about ordering a Custom with Sport Package and he said it couldn't be done. Where did you hear a LS430 could be ordered like that? I would appreciate any info since that is exactly how I want to order my car.

ljflx · October 2003

Contact Lexus US.com - that is who told me. You can get their phone info and e-mail data on the website. If you have a problem let me know and I'll pass on an e-mail contact there to you.

paulchiu · October 2003

Missed Paul, my hero. Such a good looking man in his 60's. With his new honey, the baby's got to be a doll!

I love Separate Ways, and you give me the idea to try the Journey Greatest Hits on the ML.

Oh, I forgot to say yesterday that the Stereo in the LS is FAR better than the S500 Bose. NO comparison there. At LOUD levels, the cheapo materials in the cabin of the S500 actually starts to resonate while the LS sucks up the highs like an anarchic chamber. Sure, others like a live sound stage. I don't. I want an accurate one.

ljflx · October 2003

In the past they have been anything from a gift from a catalogue that they send you to $1,000 off your next purchase or lease.

zdude · October 2003

Thanks for the info.

ljflx · October 2003

If you take the custom lux and euro with 18" rims - let us know your experience. That is also the number one preference for how I will likely take the car. But I'm not in the market until early next year.

Good luck.

b4z · October 2003

Just to add a couple of roadworthy CD's.
Not a big STYX fan but there is a CD called, STYX:"EXTENDED VERSIONS"
I picked it up at Best Buy for $5.99.
It is actually a live concert. Although no mention is made of that anywhere on the disc.
It flat out rocks. This is the lineup with the new drummer and he is completely over the top.

Journey put out a DVD called "Journey 2001".
I have been looking for a CD version of this, but it would be easy to burn it off the dvd.
Incredible performance. Sound better than they did in the 80's. Steve Perry is no longer with the band though. Deen Castronovo on drums replaces Steve Smith.

Keb' Mo' "Just Like You" and "Slow Down", both are very well recorded especially the track "Henry".

On the mellower side of things:
Sting...."All this Time".Recorded at his home in Tuscany the night the World Trade Center was attacked. Beautiful new arrangements and well recorded.

Diana Krall "Live in Paris" stunning recording with the European Orchestra.

ljflx · October 2003

I just saw Journey in concert in August with Styx and REO speedwagon. All three bands were great with Journey the stars of the show. Journey is still great even without Steve Perry. Steve has his own cd out - I have it (think it's called Street Talk) and it's also a great CD.

Paul - I'm a huge James Taylor fan and he's as soothing as it gets on a long trip. Saw him in concert also this summer and he puts on a great show. Did you think of going up to Albany and splitting off the thruway onto the Northway to Lake George. The Northway is the most beautiful road I've ever been on. That would be a spectacular trip at this time of year. The best colors I've ever seen in our neck of the woods are up that way and on into Vermont. They should be at peak right now. But watch those troopers up there if you get above 75mph.

b4z · October 2003

Speaking of car stereo.
Wonder when the SACD or even DVD-A format(Acura excluded) will see more support from the auto manufacturers??

I have James Taylor "Hourglass" on SACD and it is pretty amazing.

ljflx · October 2003

The Music industry should get behind that one - they need all the help they can get right now. I burned a dvd on my PC with over a 100 of my favorite songs on it and played it in my home dvd player/surround sound system. It sounded better than any cd I have that came from the studios. Alas - I can't play it on the ML. You don't need a 5,6 or 7 disc cd player anymore if you can burn music to a dvd. If you have a 7 disc carousel DVD (I actually bought one that replaced my old CD player and serves as a back-up dvd player for me) you end up having the capacity of 50+ cd's.

paulchiu · October 2003

We go to Mohonk Mountains once a year in late October and I am familiar with your drive.

I don't have an extensive Taylor collection; just his Top 40 hits. But his music is very much suited for the ML.

flint350 · October 2003

ljflx - I forgot about losing the air susp. Actually that would have been the deciding factor for me at the time. I didn't really need/want all the rear seat, chauffeur-oriented controls, but I did want the air susp. Now that I've had it, I would agree with the prior post that said it's better on rough roads. The gliding sensation on smooth roads can probably be duplicated (or closely so) in a standard suspension in this car.

As for music - I'll stay out of this one. It's obvious that my personal taste in music has not been represented here yet and I won't admit to what it is!

By the way, ljflx - you ever hear/see merc1 anymore? He sure used to liven things up around here. (these new guys won't even remember him or his opinions, hehe).

syswei · October 2003

In my car its "all Aimee Mann, all the time" basically because I don't really drive that much (8 min to my office) and never seem to get around to buying more music. Most of you guys have probably never heard of her.

syswei · October 2003

Merc1 is still generally active on the "high end luxury marques" board syswei "High End Luxury Marques" Oct 10, 2003 2:07pm!make=Lexus&model=All&ed_makeindex=.ee9e5eb

In recent times a number of Lexus fans seem to be ganging up and making for some pretty spirited debate there.

drivetrain · October 2003

Is it possible to get an '04 LS Ultra Lux with the Euro-Sport suspension?

figment2 · October 2003

This is my first time on the message center. I have read numerous discussions on the MBZ, BMW, and Lexus sites as these are the cars I was considering. I have owned MBZ's since 1976, most were great, one was built on Monday. After driving all of the new ones I liked them all. After reading the discussions and the various referred publications it became obvious if I didn't want the car in the shop all the time the LS430 was the only way to go. So that brings me to my question. I contacted LexusUS.com as someone here suggested and they took $2000 off the MSRP but I will have to pay $800 shipping if it has to come out of S. Cal. They are now checking to see if they can find one spec'd out the way I want and if so I will have it as quick as they can ship it, as opposed to a two month wait to order one. Has anyone dealt with LexusUS.com. Are they a reputable outfit? I don't like the idea of paying for the car upfront with some outfit I don't even know about.

b4z · October 2003

syswei,
Do "voices carry" well in your car?

flint350,
Country, right?

ljflx · October 2003

I haven't dealt with them other than some early questioning. I'm not at the advanced stage of buying that you are so I'm afraid I can't help you that much. But they do have testimonials for what they are worth and I'm sure you can have someone run a financial and legal search on them to see how reputable they are. Do you know of any legal people that can check the Meade Lexis (no pun intended but that is the product name) system or financial people that can run a D&B report on them. That at least would be a start.

flint350 · October 2003

b4z said: "Country, right?"

Lord, no. (Though I did used to like the Oak Ridge Boys some, before they became ancient).

syswei · October 2003

I'm glad to see someone has heard of Aimee. I mostly listen to her solo stuff, myself.

scottphillip · October 2003

I looked at the 2004 LS430 today. It does seem a bit quicker with the new 6 speed transmission, and it now has a "tiptronic" feature. The one I drove was a base model. I also saw one with the sport package, but I didn't get to drive it. I don't think that the general public will notice the outside changes.

The dealership only had a few cars. It will be interesting to see the sales volume for the redesign.

merc1 · October 2003

Thanks for asking. I read this thread everyday. Got to keep an eye on the competition, but this isn't the thread for debate so I rarely post.

M

nofeer · October 2003

my lease is up in dec and my "replace airfilter" warning came up, i dn't want to travel the 140 miles to my lexus dealer to change it soooooo

where's a good place on line to buy one, and is it hard to replace
thanks

wwest · October 2003

If you live north of the snowline, as I do, Seattle area, now would be a good time to think serious about disabling your A/C compressor. On my RX300 I simply unplug the refrigerant pressure sensor switch just in front of the radiator. In older models I always unplugged the A/C compressor clutch circuit.

WHY ???

Most modern day automotive A/C systems, most especially those of the automatic climate control variety, will automatically engage the A/C system to help dehumidify the incoming airstream (you wouldn't DARE be in recirulate at this point!).

At moderately cool outside temperatures, down to about 45F, this can often be a great advantage. But below these temperatures the efficiency of the A/C to dehumidify the incoming airstream declines precipetously, until at just above freezing, ~35F, there is NO dehumidification capability whatsoever.

With outside temperatures below 45F your system should never be in recirculate, and should ALWAYS remain in the mode wherein outlet airflow is significantly heated and routed through the footwell outlet ducts, with a portion bled off to the windshield defrost/defog/demist ducts. This latter air flow is there, by factory design, to help (hopefully) keep the interior of the windshield above dewpoint, the point at which condensation begins to form.

If you have a manually operated system then it will be up to you to remember to monitor the outside temperature and be sure the system has the proper airflow routing, footwell only, as the outside temperature declines.

If you happen to have one of the automatic climate control systems designed or manufactured by NipponDenso in Japan, or Denso USA, in the US, Toyota and Lexus for instance, it will be "biased" toward "cooling" mode (airflow outlet to the face and upper body) regardless of COLD outside temperatures and your personal discomfort due to radiant "cooling" from the COLD surrounding landscape.

Again, it will be up to you, as the driver and therefore "protector" of yourself and your passengers, to be extremely vigilent and ALWAYS over-ride the system from "automatic" outlet airflow control mode, to footwell and defrost/defog/demist mode manually when outside temperatures decline below 45F.

Now.

If the outside temperature is below 45F and IF the interior of your windshield beings to fog over, even ever so slightly, you need to take IMMEDIATE action.

1. Turn the temperature control all the way UP, to MAX HEAT.
2. Turn the system Blower all the way to MAXIMUM speed.
3. THEN....
Change the system outlet airflow mode to defrost/defog/demist.

So, why did this happen, why did the windshield start to fog over?

First, let's assume you followed the above instructions and the system was in heating mode, footwell and defrost/defog/demist airflow mode, and NOT IN RECIRCULATE!

At, say, 65MPH on a really cold day your windshield is being quite thoroughly chilled with the COLD airstream impinging on the outside at 65MPH even though there is a significant level of warming airflow from the system flowing its interior surface.

But now you just picked up two sweaty and wet snow skiers and you're headed back down the mountain. Or you were headed up to the slopes and your passengers became stressed out (sweating profusely) due to the ice and snow covered roadbed and the sometimes unavoidable side-slipping of the vehicle.

Moisture = higher humidity + a cool windshield surface = condensation.

Cracking a rear window slightly will almost always help move the cool dry air through the vehicle.

If you have not disabled your A/C for wintertime driving there may be yet another cause for the windshield fogging over.

Your A/C system was running but now isn't.

1. It may have shut down of it's own accord, automatically, a few moments ago, due to declining outside temperatures, 35F or below. Many modern systems will do this automatically, with no warning or obvious indication to the operator.

2. You may have just previosuly used the defrost/defog/demist mode, unaware that this mode automatically activates the A/C system to assist in dehumidification. Once you return the system to normal operation the A/C will shutdown provided you have used the control functionality to turn it off.

3. You may have just noticed that the temperatures have declined and manually turned off the useless A/C.

But why would any of these actions lead to windshield fogging to the point of being a real safety issue??

Long story, but first a short version.

When the A/C is operating it will almost always "gather" airborne water vapor onto the evaporator vanes. As more and more moisture accumulates it will eventually become dropletts large enough that gravity overcomes viscosity and then run down the face of the evaporator and out the drain provided for this purpose.

When the A/C compressor is first shut down the temperature of the evaporator surfaces will begin to rise. And remember ALL system inlet airflow, fresh and recirculated, comes through the evaporator. So that thin film of moisture, the film of moisture that had not yet gained enough mass to overcome viscosity, will begin to evaporate into the atmosphere within the passenger cabin.

BINGO!

Cold windshield, high atmospheric humidity.

The windshield begins to fog over!

Modern day exacerbating circumstances...

1. New, less efficient refrigerant.

With the advent of the use of the new less efficient refrigerants automotive designers were fored to come up with ways to make up for the loss of efficiency.

The most obvious way, and the one most often chosen, was to make the evaporator itsself a lot more efficient. The evaporator in my 1984 T-bird had about 2500 square inches of evaporator cooling surface. The one in the newer vehicles is more typically in the range of 10,000 square inches.

More evaporator surface area = more moisture left over to humidify the passenger cabin once the A/C is turned off.

2. Reduce the cabin atmosphere's "exhaust" outflow.

On a minute by minute basis, the less "conditioned" air that leaves the controlled environment the less incoming airflow that must be cooled.

3. Lower the system blower speed.

The slower the airflow moves through the evaporator vanes the more "heat" it gives up. A lower blower speed also results in even less exhaust outflow due to blower induced pressure differentials.

The Lexus car series is very well insulated for sound deadening and wind noise. MY 92 LS400, in fully automatic mode, could be using recirculate for 90% of the flow in the winter or summer, with the indicator light showing "fresh" mode.

sv7887 · October 2003

Wow,
Wwest you really know your stuff. Thanks for that informative post.

16 days and $5,280 later, I finally have my 92 LS back. (For those that don't know, a foolish woman ran a red light and hit the Left Front Panel and Wheel at 30 MPH) They ended up rebuilding most of the LF suspension and the car rides great. They did use all OEM Parts.

However, the car "hums" at idle..It doesn't idle as low as it used to in Drive.(Talking about 200 RPM here..) Before I couldn't hear anything, now I get this feeling that's the engine is running a little rough. Lose ground wire perhaps? The impact was pretty hard. Anyone know what this could be? It was perfect before it got hit. (I'd just spent $1,700 on the 90K service)

Am I being too picky about this? To the unschooled observer you can't tell anything happened to the car. I'm just annoyed, b/c it was perfect beforehand. I'm a little apprehensive to harass the dealer over something so minor, I can hear the "Get Lost" coming..

SV

bitkahuna · October 2003

IF you look up in the sky and see clouds that look like Lexus logos, and IF the temperature is below 65F, and IF the crease in your right pant leg is more than 5 degrees different than the cease in the hood of your car, then you run a significant chance of your windshield fogging over!

Take IMMEDIATE steps. Take off your pants. Turn off the A/C. Drive AWAY from the cloud formations. Stop the car and wait until the clouds are gone.

ljflx · October 2003

You are amazing. If Edmunds has any scientific awards they should go straight to you.

I've never had any condensation problems but if I ever do I have a better source than Lexus for a solution to the problem.

wwest · October 2003

Born shade tree mechanic...

Raised on a farm.

If it's broke, fix it, and get back to work.

rictra1 · October 2003

I haven't been on Town Hall in over a year, but apparently things have changed radically on the Edmunds site. I can no longer get dealer pricing and reviews like before. Instead I get some nonsense called TMV.

My dealer wants my nav 2002 LS430 (12k mi.) to trade me into one like it of 2004 vintage. Can anyone provide me with a link to an online site that provides this pricing info free and without trying to broker a car for me?

pat · October 2003

Hi rictra1 - if you poke around on the site, you'll find everything here that used to be here and a whole lot more besides. Check out the tabs above for starters and also spend a few minutes looking at all the choices on the main http://www.edmunds.com page. There is a link to a site map at the very bottom if you need it.

>> Can anyone provide me with a link to an online site that provides this pricing info free and without trying to broker a car for me?

Heh, isn't that a little like being invited to someone's house to have dinner, taking a look around and then telling that person I don't like it here, please tell me where else I can get a free dinner instead? :-)

TMV is a very helpful tool - Edmunds has been praised for it in all kinds of publications and consumer advocacy type sites. Just take a minute to read about it and you'll see how it can help you. Pricing, reviews, specs etc. are on the Vehicle Detail Pages that can be accessed a number of ways. You'll find everything you need, I promise!

Oh and by the way, links to competing sites are not allowed by the terms of use, actually.

Rictra · October 2003

Hi Pat and thank you for the welcome. I differ with your opinion that "you'll find everything here that used to be here and a whole lot more besides". I just did as you suggested and looked around again and this time using the site map. Edmunds is not what it used to be at all. There is much hype to wade through to get what you want and after wading through all the hype the info we used to have available to us is not here. Pricing I am talking about. But it may be that Edmunds simply doesn't have all the info available at this time. But right now for this car it shows very little about dealer invoice and all the options are not shown.

Also, TMV might be good for used cars, but it is certainly worthless for the 2004 Lexus LS430. If I were to follow its advice I would way overpay for this car. For instance it says my 2004 car should list for $61,730 and I should be happy to get a price of $61,548. That is rediculous! My dealer has already offered the car to me at this point for nearly $4,000 less than your TMV says. Also, my trade-in is offered at this point for another $2,500 more than what your TMV says. Frankly, I just don't see any value in TMV as it appears to be a gimmic of the Edmunds car brokering department to make us think we are getting a good deal when in fact we are getting the short end of the stick.

I have read many posts here in the past that provide links to outside sites. Perhaps you have just recently begun enforcing the rules, but a year ago they were proliferate.

Sometimes it is better not to change things too much. However, it probably changed to capture a larger profit for Edmunds.com.

michael_mattox · October 2003

If you bought your 2002 new in 2002...The sticker price for the 2004 with the same features will be about the same (within a $1000)

b4z · October 2003

It's all there.
After you go to "Invoice and TMV Pricing"
click on "Price with Options"
I found it in about 20 seconds.

Better yet, click on this:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/lexus/ls430/100322033/options.htm- - l?tid=edmunds.n.prices.npt..6.Lexus*

What you don't sometimes get with edmund's and the others too, is which options can be combined together.

Rictra · October 2003

You provided a link to the same page I was referring to. Apparently you did not bother to look at that link. Where is shows dealer invoice there are N/A's on every price line. N/A to me means not available.

Therefore, there is no dealer invoice pricing available at this time.

b4z · October 2003

You are correct.
I went to the LS430 info to try and get percentages of list price.
Got messed up by the destination charge which is fixed, so i left that out and concentrated on base price and option prices.
Base price X 86.998% = INVOICE
Options price X 80% to 80.9% = INVOICE. (differnet profit on some options)
Chrome wheels were MSRP X 50% = INVOICE
Then add $625 destination charge to "INVOICE" price.

Or you could search on some other sites to find invoice pricing.
Expect to pay $2500-3000 over invoice.

You can also go to www.lexusus.com and use their pricing to negotiate.

agent0986 · October 2003

quick question, will this new navigation disk work in older model year LS430's such as 2001?
thank u

b4z · October 2003

Has merged with www.fleetrates.com.
Here is a list of what is available.
Kind of hard to use because we don't know what the MSRP is on these cars without calling them.

http://fleetrates.com/index.asp?site=Lexus

animationguy · October 2003

I just bought the new 3.1 dvd from lexus-parts for
$288.00 and it installed flawlessly on my 2001 LS430. Big improvement, all the updated POIs make this a very worthy upgrade.

Thanks to the recent mail on installation instructions. Definitely no need to have the dealership do this for beaucoupe bucks.

animationguy · October 2003

If you go to www.alldata.com/TSB you can get yourself to a listing of service bulletins for your car(s).

I notice my 2001 LS430 has a few of these problems.

They are:

Groaning sound when the steering column automatically goes into its resting position

Occasional sulfur smell

Rattle in the moonroof area when it is open

- Anybody out there have these or other problems, and if you had them fixed by the Lexus dealership did they give you any hassles or did they just fix them for free and no quibbles? Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks ( otherwise this is an awesome car )

agent0986 · October 2003

I would really appreciate if someone could email me those instructions on how to install the nav disk. I am going to purchase the new 3.1, newest one out there right? thank you my email is agent0986@aol.com

animationguy · October 2003

Take a look at message #4769 on this message board

pat · October 2003

Sometimes the search features here are overlooked. The "Search This Discussion" box should help find posts on the groaning steering column issue, and any other keywords of interest.

acco20 · October 2003

Never used that section before. I decided to try it,and it is great...thanx for the heads up.

bluestar1 · October 2003

A couple of shots for the future direction of Lexus:

Front view of LF-S

Another view of LF-S

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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