Lexus LS 400/LS 430

lenscap · February 2004

There was a great article on Lexus in last week's Automotive News (a dealer/trade magazine).
Denny Clements, Lexus' GM, commented on a variety of topics.

Most relevant here are his comments about the next LS. He says it is more than just a redesign of the Lexus flagship, that it will make the same impact as the original in 1989. No other upcoming new model gets him more emotional according to the article.

Other comments by Clements (these are all approved programs that are definitely happening):

1. A distinct new Lexus design beginning with the next GS
2. A redesign of every car line by spring 2007
3. Lexus-dedicated product planners, designers and engineers
4. All-wheel drive availability with each redesign
5. The addition of a flagship car above the LS 430
6. The creation of a factory performance division like Mercedes' AMG and BMW's M
7. Many varieties of the next IS, including a sedan, coupe and convertible, all-wheel drive and multiple engine choices

cheapowner · February 2004

maxhonda99:

TNX

ljflx · February 2004

A redesign of every car by 2007 means the LS which we knew would be 2006 or 2007 and the ES which is usually one year after the LS. I exclude the GS because it's now done and the IS was obvious. Did he mention a timimg on the new LS. It may well be 2006 given the ES will also now be redesigned by 2007.

I wonder if the model above the LS is simply a stretched LS with a 12 cyl engine or an entirely new car. In the latter case I'd imagine a powerful or supercharged V-8 with a V-12 option. The smart move would be a $85k+ new model to draw in a competitor to the S600 but one which is a stand alone car. I would never buy an S600 because for all that money at $125k+ it's the same skin as an S430 and an S500. In other words a total ripoff.

Did you pick up any news on the HPX in the article or at the show.

syswei · February 2004

There was something I believe on the Edmunds site, as an article rather than on a board, which I saw a few days ago...but can't seem to find now (HELP PLEASE HOST). It speculated on a 2006 (didn't say if model or calendar year) halo, limited production, Lexus coupe, at 150k.

ljflx · February 2004

I don't think that is the car. I think the car lenscap is talking about is a permanent model addition. But the coupe you talk about is a helluva marketing ploy to get people jazzed up and into the showrooms to see the new models. Would be a real smart move and goes well with the dynamics Clements speaks about - new models, new tuning on, all new styling etc. Luckily this isn't consumer package goods where you get a "new and improved" usually larger bag or box with half the content on every "redesign".

vcheng · February 2004

My pride and joy (03 LS/UL) is in the shop, subject to Special Service Campaign 3LF, that calls for replacing the throttle body. I don't know the range of VINs affected, but you should check with your service manager.

cheapowner · February 2004

Just a guess.

Toyota would probably use existing Century hardware with new skin. Maybe bigger engine.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Century/index.- html

ljflx · February 2004

Don't think so because they will stay true to the new styling direction. This one is too old of a style and out of sync with the LFS styling.

pat · February 2004

Syswei, I can't find it either. Sorry - maybe it was elsewhere?

lenscap · February 2004

The article offered few details on the car Lexus will introduce above the LS 430. It said executives confirmed the long-rumored super-luxury Lexus is close to reality and will compete against the Mercedes S600 and BMW 7 Series (I'm guessing they mean the V-12). The execs had no comment when asked if the car will have a hybrid powertrain, a V-12 from the Japan-market Century or be a stretched LS 430. But they said the car is definitely coming. Jim Press, COO of Toyota USA, said it's not an issue of if, but when and that Lexus was working out the business case, development cost and volume estimates. (Note: I do agree with you that the car should be separate from the LS 430.)

One technology being looked at is programmable vehicle-dynamic software, which allows the car to be adjusted to perform according to the driver's mood. The car could be a "road rocket" one day, a "grand tourer" the next and a "luxury cruiser" after that all with the touch of a button. It sounds like the next step beyond the current adjustable variable suspension, although with engine power variations.

As for the HPX, I saw it in Detroit and really liked it. The vehicle has far more presence than the Infiniti FX (what appears to be the closest vehicle out there to the HPX) in my opinion and looks upscale (as opposed to the Infiniti, which I think looks cartoonish). There were no brochures, and the article mentions nothing. But with Mercedes bringing out their "wagon" I would guess the Lexus will become a reality.

syswei · February 2004

found it...

"2006 Coupe
Lexus is reportedly working on an ultra-luxury coupe that will sell for roughly $150,000, a figure that will place it head on with some of the world's most exotic two-doors. It's intended as a limited-production halo car that will add prestige to the Lexus name."

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/futurecars/articles/44810/page022.- - html

uclan · February 2004

Greetings! Came across this today:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040204/45500_1.html

uclan
'01 LS430 Nav/ML

uclan · February 2004

dup. sorry

ljflx · February 2004

Thanks.

I love the HPX and hope they build it. I had to laugh when people on the lux board were posting that it was a copy of the FX last summer. That was a joke. It's got so much more presence and prestige.

What kind of reaction to the GS did you pick-up at the show? It's growing on me but I'm not crazy about the back lights.

ifpsken · February 2004

Does anyone have advice on the removal of the airbag warnings on the sun visors of the Lexus? My son has a Subaru and the warning on his visors were painted. Are the Lexus' warnings painted also?

lenscap · February 2004

The HPX is awesome, no doubt about it. It is nothing like the FX in person, the two would never be confused. The HPX is a vehicle that commands your attention and seems a lot bigger than the FX.

The GS was swarmed with people. I brought a digital camera and had a very hard time getting shots because of all the people. I loved the car. The back lights actually are vaguely reminiscent of the original GS. Lexus did everything right with this car - it is sportier and more "masculine." I will do everything in my power to get my mother to trade her 1999 GS in on this car (and shouldn't have too much trouble convincing her).

carnaught · February 2004

I sure hope that it looks better in person than in the pictures. "Growing on" someone is a sad testimonial to its looks.

stevestein · February 2004

See post # 804. If you have a specific question you can use the "search this discussion" feature to see previous posts on the topic.

ljflx · February 2004

I will have to see that GS in person.

Carnaught - agree but I wasn't all that impressed with the first GS in the early 90's but loved it when I saw it in person. Who knows. I am an LS buyer anyway but I'd love to get my hands on that HPX.

pat · February 2004

Glad you found it. Meanwhile, I'm off to report a search engine that will NOT find it when told to look for Lexus and 2006 or Lexus and coupe!!!

syswei · February 2004

FYI I don't remember how I stumbled on it the first time, but most likely it was google. Today I refound it with google.

ifpsken · February 2004

Yes, my 95 & 99 LS400s had a label on the visors that I was able to carefully peel off, but I cannot get underneath the warning on the 04 visor. My son's WRX has vinyl visors and I used Goof Off to remove one of his warnings and discovered it was painted on the visor and now the vinyl looks worse than the warning label. $50 for a replacement visor.

mfullmer · February 2004

Long after people began suing the manufacturers, there have already been several lawsuits where used car buyers have sued the seller (all dealerships) for removing the airbag warnings from the sunvisors.

Removing the warning opens you up to litigation after you get rid of the car.

jamesfletcher2 · February 2004

Here is a quote I found interesting from an article in today's Detroit News concerning the importance of auto interiors and placing Lexus as the benchmark - "(for) anyone who saw the new GS430 at the Detroit show - that Lexus has taken the high ground in interior design. Lexus's application of wood and leather is second to none, surpassing the quality appearance of even certain vaunted European brands"

By the way, I am one that finds the new GS exterior design to be very appealing (from the published pictures) even though like many I was surprised that it did not resemble the prototype at the Tokyo Autoshow. Of course, like ljflx, I want to see it in person at the NYC Autoshow.

lenscap · February 2004

Some people on other websites have placed a photo of the new GS next to the prototype and they are nearly identical from the side. The fronts show a strong resemblence and of course the rears are different. I wish I had the photos showing the sides, because they are 99% the same.

niceputt · February 2004

Can someone tell me if any cell phone integrates in the LS430 so long as it has Bluetooth capability? I'm reading about some just released Motorola cell phones, some of which have Bluetooth. Can I just take my pick and expect it to integrate with the LS430 system?

allan441 · February 2004

As far as I know, any cell phone that has Bluetooth technology, will connect with the Lexus system. I have used both Sony Ericson, and Nokia.

rgsw · February 2004

I note that the AT*T phones offered are "GSM" or "Next Generation" phones and do not have the same coverage as the "Digital" phones. For instance, according to the service area maps, the GSM phone will only work in Albuququerque and along a narrow path along the interstate to the west and north, the rest is roaming. Under "Digital" they show a large coverage area. I'm still waiting for improved coverage area under GSM or Blue Tooth to do Digital.

milsuperdoc · February 2004

I just took delivery of a new 2004 LS430 with Premium package and preferred accessory package. It now has 17 miles on it. The price was $54.5K. Is this a decent price?

300eguy05 · February 2004

I just saw the what I assume was a new LS commercial. The car was in black over beige the car was sooo beautiful. It looked like a killer in black. I was salivating all over the screen. I don't know what it is, but that car is just such a masterpiece to my eyes.

chicagoed · February 2004

for milsuperdoc: I ordered an '04 LS430 with premium and trunk mat, cargo net, and wheel locks for $54,100 (no smartkey) which looks like just about the same as you paid. Before delivery, I switched to a modern lux with smartkey for more money in order to get it sooner. Have it now and it is great, except for a few peeves where their design team fell down IMHO.

lenscap · February 2004

Are you still looking at getting a 2004 LS 430 in Flint Mica? The annual DuPont car color research revealed that medium-dark gray was the #1 color on luxury cars, up from #6 last year (silver was #1 for all cars). The gray is extremely popular, and Lexus is even adding it to the ES 330 (via the limited edition SportDesign).

Also, did you happen to see the new Automobile magazine's wrap up of the Detroit Auto Show? Here's what they had to say about the new GS (a little off-topic, I know): "One of the least derivative sedan designs Lexus has proposed, the newest GS is smoother and far more interesting than the Mercedes clones Lexus has done in the past. Very nice." That bodes well for the next generation LS.

barry5 · February 2004

I OWN A 2001 LEXUS 430 ULTRA. I LIVE IN NEW YORK AND IT HAS BEEN A HELL OF A WINTER. THE BELOVED LEXUS CANNOT HANDLE SNOW. YOU CAN SHUT OFF THE VEHICLE CONTROL SYSTEM, TURN ON THE SNOW MODE, RAISE THE CAR AND THIS GREAT AUTO CANNOT PERFORM IN SNOW.

TO CONTINUE ITS EXCELLENCE THE LEXUS 430 MUST OFFER AN "AWD" MODEL. REALITY IS THAT THIS CAR IS NOT MADE FOR THE NORTHEAST... IT ACTUALLY CAME WITH SUMMER TIRES WHICH I REPLACED WITH MICHELIN MXV4.

ljflx · February 2004

I'm going to order the sports suspension LS by months end but the jury is still out on color. I'm between black, flint mica and cypress pearl. I've yet to see a cypress pearl but the showroom has one in and I'm going to see it later in the week. The car looks fabulous in black and the flint mica is stunning. Not sure of final outcome but I'll let you know. If somehow I can't get the sport suspension - it's not easy - I may go to the ultra.

sv7887 · February 2004

Barry,
I hear you. I have an '02 LS430 with SNOW tires and it STILL won't go up 1 inch of snow. I've got Michelin Artic Alpins on 17" wheels.
Incidentally, I keep a 92 LS400 with Bridgestone Blizzak's too. That car is absolute dynamite in the snow. It will go through practically anything.
For the more knowledgeable tire guys here:
1) Is the Blizzak just better than the Artic Alpins?
2) Or is the difference in tire size 15" on the 92 and 17" on the 02 causing the difference?

SV

edspider1 · February 2004

I have a 2001 Ultra in Chicago. I wouldn't say it can't handle the snow. All things considered, I think it does very well. The traction control works fine. The VSC smoothly stops fish tailing. I have 17" rims with all season MXV4s. (Yes, the stock summer tires were worthless in the snow.) I wouldn't want to take it out in 4"+ of snow, but they plow all the streets I use.

jamesfletcher2 · February 2004

Here is the link to a decent review of a 2004 LS430 with the Sport Suspension that a friend sent me - http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?ReviewID=1432.

Enjoy.

jfz219 · February 2004

Barry and SV:

I passed a neighbor at a stop sign last week. He was exchanging insurance information after his AWD Volvo SUV had rear-ended another car. His accident is a good example of how 4WD can lure one to drive at speed beyond the capabilities of braking and steering. AWD is clearly superior in acceleration on inclines, but its added weight and higher center of gravity are a disadvantage is steering and braking.

In my situation, ice is much more of a threat than deep snow. I have had a significant improvement in icy conditions with Blizzaks on my previous car (a 2000 E320) and with Dunlap M-3 on my 2004 LS430. Car and Driver magazine and CanadianDriver webb site have good articles on the merits of snow tires.

wwest · February 2004

A good set of snowchains on the rear drive wheels, RWD, AWD, or 4WD, will improve the overall driving/handling experience in snow dramatically.

ifpsken · February 2004

Take a test drive of the LS with and without the Sport Suspension. I took delivery of a moonlight SP two weeks ago and am thoroughly enjoying the sport suspension. For $225, what a deal! The 18" wheels and tighter ride is quite an improvement over my prior '99 LS.

ljflx · February 2004

The tighter suspension is great and it hardly compromises the glorious ride of the standard LS430 suspension. The LS430 standard suspension is tighter than the older 2000 and earlier models of the LS400 to begin with. Thus it would be expected that you'd see a big difference between an LS430 sport and a prior gen LS400 suspension.

barry5 · February 2004

Dear Responders:

     First thank you for your responses. I do not equate a car AWD with a SUV-AWD. These SUV drivers feel invincible and that somehow they can overcome some basic laws of physics. Fact is that most snow accidents I see are with SUV,s. However, I agree that whatever vehicle you are driving you have to stop and having AWD will not stop you quicker. I consider myself a cautious driver and my concern is how to keep going; the VSC will stop the Lexus in its tracks if it cannot keep you straight. You wont be fish tailing as you are dead in the water [Snow].

    Chains are Illegal in NY but it is a good solution in States that they are legal.

    It makes sense to have an AWD that will allow the Lexus to go through a winter in our snow states.

     I reiterate ... we drive the best automobile made it just needs some tweaking.

    Again my thanks to all that keep the Lexus Car Discussions going, as it is very helpful and informative.

littlecf · February 2004

Bought a 2003 LS430 last summer. After driving front wheel drive cars for 25 years, was a little leery of how it would handle the snow, especially after reading some of the posts on this board. Have the standard all-season Dunlops, and so far, have not had any problems with the snow we've had in Michigan this season. Doesn't accelerate as well as my Toyota Avalon, but haven't been stuck yet.

helmar · February 2004

I'm in New Hampshire and I have an '03 LS430 with Nokian WR tires.

The Nokian WR tires substantially improve the handling in snow over the standard tires, and they're quiet as well.

Having said that, if an AWD version of the LS became available, I'd purchase one immediately.

1stavy · February 2004

I'm currently taxing my research skills to come to a decision on what car to buy. I have a 45,000 yearly commute in a Northeastern state. My current car is a '95 Avalon XL with 252,000 highway miles on it that still rides like a champ and has never stranded me or needed more than fluid changes, preventative timing belt change, battery, brakes. I have access to auctions, thus lower prices and am considering a step up in comfort without risking reliability. I've test driven a '99 GS 300 and '99 Es 300 both have great amenities and qualities but not enough room in back seat for my three kids. I can get 1997-1999 Lexus LS 400 from $15k-$19k w/45k+miles , 2000 Acura RL w/ under 35k miles for $17k and under, 2000& 2001 Avalon XLS w/30-40kmiles for $16k-$20K. I've wanted the LS400 for years now and hope to test drive one soon but am very impressed with the Avalon ride and amenities for the price. My mantra is to get the best deal for the money. Is it unreasonable to think that I could expect to get close to 300,000 miles from the Acura RL, LS 400 and 2000-2001 Avalon with routine maintenance? Am I incredibly fortunate but naive to the prohibitive costs of maintaining a more upsacle car under the strain of such a commute? Your opinions and expertise are most welcome.

stevestein · February 2004

I'm getting ready to replace the tires on my '01 LS430 and am looking at the Bridgestones. Can anyone explain the difference in laymans terms between the Turenza LS line (which seems to be the most popular recommendation) and the Potenza RE950? I'm not a sporty driver, my major concerns are low noise and quiet, with a minor for snow traction. Tirerack classifies the Turenza as"grand touring" the Potenza a "high performance" and the OEM Dunlops as "ultra high performance", but their descriptions of the categories doesn't really provide alot of info.

wwest · February 2004

Get a 98 or later LS with HID and air suspension.

jfz219 · February 2004

If ride, noise, and snow traction are your priorities, I recommend the Dunlop Sport 5000 (OEM for 2004), the Turanza LH, and the latest version of the Michelin MXV4. My experience with the 2000 vintage MXV4 was that it is quite, smooth-riding, very low rolling resistance, but poor in rain and worthless in snow. I replaced the MXV4 with the Turanza on my E320. The ride and noise were similar, the rain traction was far superior, and the snow handling was slightly improved. The rolling resistance was greater and I observed a 2-3 mpg drop in fuel economy. My son has the latest version of the MXV4 and is quite happy with the rain and snow traction. So far, I have been impressed with the ride and handling of the Dunlops in my 2004 LS430. I still went with the Winter Sport M-3 snow tires.

I would not recommend the RE950. In comparison to the Turanza LH, it may provide an increase in dry handling, but at the price of noise, smooth ride, wear, and possibly wet/snow traction. The LH is a newer design.

ljflx · February 2004

I have those dunlops - replaced original tires when I had 40k miles. I have the Z rated and they grip real well (are great in rain and pretty good in snow), are quiet and will noticably improve your handling. The turanzas though are supposed to be ultraquiet per wwest.

wbwynn · February 2004

Use your auction capability to check out 01' or 02' LS430...what's your budget? LS is your best bet at any px.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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