Lexus LS 400/LS 430

barry5 · December 2004

I have been reading the speculation concerning the new LS [2007]. What good is all that horsepower, most of us are lucky to go 50 mph.

0 to 60 in 4 seconds , so what. What is important is ALL WHEEL DRIVE for those of us in snow country. I agree that anything that resembles an I type drive would be a wrong turn for Lexus. I think there should be both a regular and hybrid type.

I have been following the Acura RL forum and have noted many a Lexus owner on it. Some have turned in their Lexus and some have bought it as a second car. I don't believe there is any car out there that is better then Lexus, I just want them to continue on the road to excellence not gimmickry. I must admit the RL is a technical wonder but there is no comparison as to the quality of the ride.

ljflx · December 2004

Scroll down this page for that Sony story. The LCD has a 27,000 hour life expectancy before it starts to dim. The Plasma is much shorter. Something else to consider. If they've solved the motion issue than LCD is a much better way to go. Samsung has a 46" model and Sharp has a 45" one. They do expect to cross 50" pretty soon. In HD non-sport content the pure LCD set has the best picture I've ever seen. I know CNET did a big story on these two sets.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&page=2

Also Toyota staying on the hunt.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=322654

OAC - The super LS will be in a league of its own and will probably have few, if any options in combo with that standard powerful engine. But across the board Toyota is offering the hybrids with the gas engine. For example the Camry will come in 4cyl, 6cyl and 6cyl hybrid in 2006 and they expect to sell 35% of the 400k annual toatl in hybrid version. Likewise the LS will certainly have the 5.0 gas and a variant hybrid of some kind. I'd be surprised if that hybrid is a 6cyl in an LS. My guess is you'll see a 350 or so HP gas, a 450-475HP hybrid and a 600+HP super LS hybrid. The latter probably debuts last. The fact that they noted the LS as a NEW 2006 nearly heavy-metal free car immediately translates to the next gen car to me. First off its a Lexus and only a handful of Lexus plated cars are sold in Japan now. Most LS cars in Japan are sold as that Toyota lux flagship sedan (name escapes me at the moment). read the story one more time.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&id=322585

nvbanker · December 2004

" Let's pray they stay away from the dreaded and totally unneeded I-drive"

Amen to that!

oac · December 2004

I'd be surprised if that hybrid is a 6cyl in an LS.

No. The 4.5H engine is a V8 not v6 !

My guess is you'll see a 350 or so HP gas, a 450-475HP hybrid and a 600+HP super LS hybrid

I'd agree somewhat. GS4xx competes with the 300HP RL, the 325HP 545i and the 345HP M45. Would make sense that its gas engine output in the 4.6L V8 should be within same range b/w 330 & 350HP. But the 5.0L in the LS should have a higher output than the new 4.6L, that's why I speculate this close to 400hp. Of course, the real gem is the new 4.5H setup for the GS and LS, with the v12 performance. Even at 450+ HP, that should compete very well against the S500 or S55, while delivering excellent fuel economy. A super-LS ! Not much word on this (yet) from TMC that I've seen.

Most LS cars in Japan are sold as that Toyota lux flagship sedan (name escapes me at the moment).

That would be the Toyota Celsior.

garyh1 · December 2004

I'm reluctant to continue this way-off-the-topic discussion, but I find myself (as usual) in total agreement with Len. I also have both a 40" Sony square tube HDTV and a 42" Sony widescreen LCD projection HDTV. It's a hard choice between the 2 in terms of picture quality vs. size (the 40" ends up as about a 36" for HDTV widescreen). A friend of mine just bought the new 45" (largest available) Sharp LCD panel (not projection) for about $8,000. You can buy either the LCD projection version or the 40" square or 34" widescreen tube for under $3,000. If price is no object, or you need to hang it on a wall, I am sure the LCD panel is great. Otherwise, the LCD projection TVs are virtually as good for a fraction of the price of the panel LCDs. Stay away from the plasmas; pixels die leaving black dots on the screen, images burn onto the screen (especially with video games), they have a limited life, and they're expensive.

oac · December 2004

How and when did AWD become a *must-have* for luxury cars ? I am still mystified by the chatter on AWD here on Edmunds .... Maybe it's bcos I live in CA where we don't get as much inclement weather. But a good set of snow tires, or chains will solve many (if not all) wintery road problems. That is a far cheaper expense than buying the $50K RL for its state-of-the-art AWD system.

nvbanker · December 2004

I'm amazed by the Navigation chatter on this thread. It goes on for days on end sometimes! Like I don't know my way to work.

wwest · December 2004

It's primarily the FWD upscale vehicles wherein AWD is an absolute MUST HAVE. It's a way of never admitting to the public that so many owners have lost their lives due to the hazards of FWD.

wwest · December 2004

What about DLP??

ls430nsc · December 2004

Here are two links that should give you the information that you need. The Lexus site will give phone and provider info and CNET will have reviews of the phones.

Good luck!

http://lexus.letstalk.com/brands/lexus/mlh_splash2.htm?brandId=14- 9&cmpId=224&to=3840

http://www.cnet.com/

pip7 · December 2004

Thanks ls430nsc. I tried those sites but no info. Does anyone out there have personal experience with the SonyEricsson t637 or the nokia 6820 on the 2005 LS? It seems odd that niether Lexus phone support nor the phone manufacturers want to deal with this issue.

topspin628 · December 2004

I have the sonyericsson t637 and it works very well on the LS430. You can download your entire phone book in few minutes. The only inconvenience of the system as has been touched upon here is that you cannot dial from the phone book while moving. You can only dial the one touch numbers which I believe number about 20-25. So someone decided that it's safer to look at your phone while driving than the screen, which I do not agree with.

Once you have your phone loaded in, you will be hooked. It's really a great feature and one of the main reasons I chose the LS over the MB S Class.

garyh1 · December 2004

DLP is a form of LCD projection using a technology developed by Texas Instruments, and utilized by certain set manufacturers, particularly Samsung. I personally found the slightly softer picture on the Sony to be preferable (and lower cost), but some people prefer the DLP picture. Some observers note a "screen door" effect when watching some types of pictures on DLP sets. But all the general comments made about LCD projection HDTVs apply to DLP.

ljflx · December 2004

wwest - they are fabulous, particularly in HD, DVD and any revently made shows and movies. Not as good on lower grade older materials or low end cable but that is because of the media not the hardware. I have a Samsung DLP. Samsung designs are great because they tuck the speakers underneath rather than on the side (I hope Sony is paying attention) thereby allowing a large set to get into a narrower cabinet. Sony's 42" LCD projection set is something like 52" across. Samsungs 46" DLP is about 42" across. The latter fits in my custom made family room cabinet. The former doesn't.

OAC - I think Lexus is going to increase engine options, possibly across the board and most certainly in their top of the line cars and suvs with each next gen vehicle. You may well be right about the 400HP gas engine. My thougts is they will tweak it to the low end so they get a great "green" reputation.

Gary - we are in total agreement on the TV's. The rael difference between LCD and the rest (even LCD projection) will be seen if broadcast resolutuons in HD are increased. The LCD sets can handle 1080P and even higher. But the lesser resolution HD broadcsts today doesn't allow these sets to reach their maximun picture quality. Enough of that for now but sidebars are great sometimes.

pip7 · December 2004

Thank you topspin628!

ljflx · December 2004

Gary - last TV comment. Sony's 2005 TV line which came out a few months ago has split the LCD projection line into two. They now have the old line which are the KDFWF models and the KDFXS line which is higher end. The stores mainly carry the WF line although Circuit City tells me they can custom order the KDFXS line. i also found the 55" XS model on the net for as low as $2600 and at E-cost (which I trust and have bought many things from) for about $2800 with minimal shipping costs. The advantage of the latter is that the picture is better (I saw one and it is) and also you can make calibration adjustments to the TV with your remote control whereas the WF line requires a Technician to come in at a $200+ cost. I haven't seen the DLP3 chip sets yet but naturally they also are improved over the DLP2 versions. I also preferred the softer LCD projection picture but damn those wide Sony designs with the far flung speakers - which I don't even need. By the way I will likely buy that XS set for my basement which I am finishing and where I may finally be able to watch TV in peace. I've got to convince my wife of this yet though.

Lastly - for anyone who wants DVD in their cars or SUVs. Walmart has this portable DVD player with two screens that wrap around the front headrests from their Korean mfr (Durabrand) for all of $278. It's great and a lot cheaper than custom installs. I put it in my GX (the player fits perfectly into the center aisle console) and several people who saw them now bought them for their cars and suv's. You can even have plug ins to the screens like Xbox so that one kid watches one movie and another plays a game or watches a different movie. I hate the ceiling mounted singular screen as it interferes with the rear view mirror and who wants to look up anyway.

pat · December 2004

Hey folks, we're getting too lost in the television discussion here ...

nvbanker · December 2004

No kidding! Proof positive that Lexus doesn't build cars, they build personal luxury isolation/entertainment chambers. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

barry5 · December 2004

Dear OAC:

I used to live in California both South and North and never encountered a problem with rear wheel drive. The East coast is snow country and in some areas chains are not allowed. Snow tires yield some improvement. As far as Luxury Cars and AWD look at Mercedes [though I would not buy one]. AWD is a safety issue and it is about time Lexus on their flagship vehicle had it.

ljflx · December 2004

I agree - they should make it an option. MB only started offering it on the S in 2002 or 2003 and like Lexus, BMW doesn't offer it on the 7.

oac · December 2004

Thanks. Appreciate the clarification. I lived 9 years on the east coast, and after Grad School moved out west to So Cal. So I do have plenty of experiences with the conditions you describe. BTW, would 4 snow tires, VSC and Trac Control (on the RWD LS) offset problems of traction on snow/icy roads ? Just curious... I have traditionally owned FWD cars and have used snow tires to *cure* some of the weather issues in the winter. Had only one fender bender in 9 years of winter driving in the NE. Glad to not have to worry about this now

callmedrfill · December 2004

I wouldn't worry too much about the '07 not offering AWD, since Lexus is trumpeting the '06 GS haing the option.

   The IS may not have it at launch, but by '08 it wil be there, to compete (diectly) with the 330xi.

   That link article may be a significant clue, with Lexus using less steel metal to counterbalance the added weight of AWD in the next LS. Lexus seems totally committed to making the LS the most efficient V8 sedan ever created. The added weight of AWD is a consideration. And I'm sure customers up north have let them know AWD is a selling point. Not to mention Lexus putting the Rx400h out with AWD.

   Only question is will you be able to AWD WITHOUT the expensive hybrid powertrain?

   Wouldn't that be the final nail in the German coffin, if the LF-S appears next to a 745? Talk about a mass exodus! Game over, man

   DrFill

michael_mattox · December 2004

I know Blizzacks are awesome (on all 4 tires)

I lived in Ct. my daughter had the Probe GT ...and couldn't get our of our driveway until she got the Blizzacks.

I would think Those tires on an LS would get you about anywhere you need to go.

sis2 · December 2004

I'm looking for advice from knowledgeable sources please. I'm trying to decide which I should do. I will purchase in the next week or so. I chose LS430 because of it's reliability, seems to hold value(I'd like to keep it awhile), and I really like it. However, I don't want a $1200 payment(even if I put $5000dn, the pymt is still over $1000)and I want to negotiate a good price, so if I do have a higher pymt at least I'll know I made a really good deal for a 4 year term. I'm looking at new 04s or 05s. Would it be better to try to work an 04 deal for the year of depreciation or buy an 05 because the price difference won't be much or lease it and buy it at lease-end?

nvbanker · December 2004

I'd look over on the Prices Paid board - you'll find some deals over there with prices in the $800 range on leases for the LS that are pretty great right now.

stevestein · December 2004

Got the new NAV DVD installed and they filled up the tank (it was above 3/4 to begin with). I don't know if it was just my dealer or part of the service campaign, a pattern emerging from the '04 transmission fixes. In any event, don't fill up the car the day before you go for the DVD.

Haven't driven anywhere to see a difference in the database yet.

ljflx · December 2004

Everytime I ran the numbers I found that it was equal or better financially to lease and purchase at lease expiration. Now I always ran my numbers against an outright buy rather than a financing buy. But I would think it would be even more favorable vs a financing purchase. If you are really a long-termer than a 39-48 month lease will get you into the 700-750 or so range and then buying at lease end gives you plenty of financing choices to keep your payments relatively low thereafter. It also gives you the choice to re-up on a new totally redesigned LS that will probably be re-writing the textbooks on luxury cars - with no worries or fears of trade-in.

gbrownell · December 2004

For the 2005 LS 430, does anyone have the bluetooth BlackBerry 7100t phone? Does it integrate well with the LS 430? Please share any stories with me. I want to stay with my T-Mobile service. Thanks

sidgriggs · December 2004

Anyone using the Motorola Razr V3 (Cingular) with their LS? I interested in upgrading my phone, but am trying to make sure it is compatable with my LS430's Nav system

jsb16 · December 2004

I bet the Motorola Razr works in the LS since the Cingular V600 works well and many of the problems with the Verizon V710 (my phone) result from Verizon screwing around with the firmware to disable the phone intentionally. It is interesting how Lexus comes up with solutions to problems I didn't know existed and i learn to enjoy their foresight. Cell phone manufacturers can't come up with useful combinations of features we all need. I wish someone made a clamshell phone with working bluetooth and a built in PDA so I would always have addresses, e-mail accounts, birthdays, etc. in my pocket. I did play with the Razr last week and it is one nice looking phone.

rgsw · December 2004

Does the cleaner and conditioner work on the leather seats with the holes for heat or cool seats?

flatlander · December 2004

I agree with the Host (and apologise)that this is an unusual forum for discussing HDTVs but I can't resist to add a note here as Sony delivered my KDF55XS955 LCD projection Grand Wega yesterday. It was part of a deal with Sony as my old KD34XBR2 widescreen super fine scan Trinitron had started to skip channels (unable to tune in to them). Currently the new Grand Wega is in my media room and the older tube HDTV in the family room. The 55inch LCD set exactly suits my 13ft x 16ft media room. It's built-in speakers and simulated surround audio are so good that last night I did not bother to go through my surround speakers while watching regular TV. I then ran "The Bourne Supremacy" DVD through my Dolby 5:1 home theater set up and am totally satisfied with the new screen and system. The remote works similarly to that supplied with the XBR (but w/o the problematic flip up lid) so was easy to learn.

However, I went into this knowing that for pure color display the old XBR2 and it's CRT would stay king of the heap. For a start, 1080i on a 34 inch screen must be unbeatable until 1080p comes along. Its latest model, the KD34XBR960 is rated by CR as the ultimate king pin color standard for HDTV. There is also far greater contrast with the XBR which has the same (but older @2001) versions of the Sony screen-magic software. Blacks on the Grand Wega are ok but not to write home about. The XBR's back facing speakers are no match for those on the new TV. But as I said above, the Grand Wega's sound is so good one could put on hold the need to add a theatre surround sound system. They do look a bit outlandish, like rabbit ears on each side of the TV. Love em or hate em but they work really well.

I believe that for a 55inch (or 60 if you have a big enough room) the Sony XS line offers the best value for money and meets my media room display needs better than its smaller (but better) XBR predecessor. Its size over quality here.

As big as the trunk is on my Lexus LS430, the new set would never be able to fit and at 210lbs the old XBR is too damned heavy to lift in to it. I will have to keep all my toys forever ...... sigh.

P.S. My new Grand Wega has a function entitled "Live Color Demo". Unfortunately it doesnt do anything and even Sony Customer Service are scratching their heads. Someone will call me next Monday to tell me "what it is".

Happy Christmas folks.

garyh1 · December 2004

The Smart Key is a nice feature, but it does take some getting used to. I just had my first experience with turning my new LS over to a valet parking service in front of a downtown restaurant. I got out of the car, which was still running, the valet handed me a ticket, and I walked into the restaurant. After dinner, I came out, gave my ticket to the valet, and then a little while later, a sheepish-looking guy came up to me and asked me for the key. My first reaction was "What are you talking about, I left it in the car. Did you lose my key?" I was really PO'ed.

Then it sunk in. The key was still in my pocket! Duh. Well, at least I learned the car will continue to run even if you take the key out of the car entirely! I'm not clear as to whether the car locked itself when the valet shut it off and closed it, but if so, this might be even better than giving the valet key to the parking attendant. You just have to give the key to the attendant when you come back to get the car. Of course, there could be a big problem if the valet turned off the car and subsequently needed to start it up again! ;-)

Anyone else had a funny Smart Key experience, or am I the only one whose CRS syndrome has come into play with this feature?

sidgriggs · December 2004

Just received this week's AutoWeek Magazine (Dec 27, 2004). It says Lexus will roll out the Lexus LF-A exotic sports car concept at the Detroit Auto show in a few weeks. 500-hp, 370-lb-ft V10. Maybe we'll get a V10 for the LS!!!

ljflx · December 2004

You need to use the valet key (looks identical but doesn't have trunk icon) which works the way a conventional key works in that situation. Once you insert that valet key into the ignition, smartkey is disabled.

garyh1 · December 2004

Thanks for info. Yeah, sure, I'll just keep the valet key handy in my purse along with my regular key and the over-sized "semi-smart" key from my other car ('98 MB E320). Really, where are you supposed to carry these things? If I put them all in my pocket, I'll look like a re-write of the old Mae West line "Is that a Smart Key in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"

hpowders · December 2004

I think this SMART key thing is one big DUMB idea. Are we so lazy that we can no longer take a key out of our pocket and move a wrist slightly to the right anymore? I don't know about the rest of the USA, but in Tampa you have to order it-it's part of all the extra packages. Second only to idrive as just one more idiotic thing that we don't need.

Now let me get back to opening my presents....."OH WOW! A SMART KEY! Thanks dear. It's just what I always wanted!"

carnaught · December 2004

I'm sure people said something similar about power brakes when they came out.

oac · December 2004

Apples and oranges...

hpowders · December 2004

I was not comparing them. Just stating they are both things we do not need.

sv7887 · December 2004

Hi All,

Well I did it! I bought my fourth LS car...I got a Modern Luxury '05 with all the little toys I wanted..They came down to 55K and gave me 37K for my 02 LS430 with 26K miles..(Blue Book on mine was $38K) It also has the 18" all season tires, which I think is abit of overkill. I wasn't planning on buying another Lexus, but it looks absolutely great in navy blue...

My actual goal was to get a 4 Matic S430. I wasn't exactly impressed with the deal I was getting at $33K + my car. I wanted the 4 matic for the New England winters, but it wasn't worth paying nearly double! The S Class appeared to be more sturdy than LS (in terms of body panel thickness) but its' electronics were clearly inferior..I couldn't justify spending that much on a car with dubious reliability. The Mercedes dealers weren't as straight forward as the Lexus people in negotiation. They resorted to number games which put me off entirely.

I am very happy with the Lexus cars over the years, so I decided on a whim to go back to my Lexus dealer. We made the deal in about 45 minutes. I get to pick up the car on Monday.

Merry Christmas to all,

SV

garyh1 · December 2004

Congrats! I was facing the same decision and also ended up with the LS. OK, I have to ask-- did you get the $1000 Smart Key option? In other words, was your MSRP $62,734? If so, you got an excellent deal. Love those end of month/year in-stock deals!

garyh1 · December 2004

Funny, I thought the same when I got it (it came on the only car in stock that I wanted). In fact, I told the salesman that my wife called it a Dumb A{ces)SS key, and said I was stupid to pay $1000 for it. So the salesman called me back a few minutes later and agreed to take $1015 off the low price he had already offered me. So it cost me -$15!

I actually have come to like it for one reason; I carry two briefcases to work, and with the Smart Access Key I can open the car door without putting down my bags, reaching into my pocket, inserting the key, returning it to my pocket, picking up the bags, and then finally getting into the car. But a thousand bucks for it is definitely pretty sporty.

hpowders · December 2004

I will remember that when I look for my LS in July. A Dumb [non-permissible content removed] key. Should be a separate option. Not in Tampa, though. It's included with all packages.

gteach26 · December 2004

First off.. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all on board. Just finished the "opening gifts melee" of the morning and now I'm on Edmunds.. something isn't right here!

I'm mostly postive on the smart key. I LOVE the fact that I just have to pull on the door handle or the trunk button and they open. No button pushing, key insertion, etc. The few times I've given it to a valet in the last few weeks I almost always get a strange stare when I hand them the "key" with the car still running. They figure it out though. I don't use the valet key -- I don't want to have to carry another remote in my pocket, plus I don't have valuables stowed anywhere in the car.

I have the system set up so that ALL four doors open up when I open my door. This makes it much easier for the wife and kiddies to get in quicker. Often though, I forget to push the button on the door handle to lock the doors. If my dealer can program the doors to lock automatically after a few minutes I'd LOVE to do that but I've been told here that that isn't an option.

Overall -- it is a neat system that takes some getting used to. The fact that the remote can be used as a regular FOB and key makes it a simple system for people to use even if they use it in a traditional "key in ignition" way.

Oh, and here in S. Fla it's pretty much a standard option (oxymoron ALERT!!), I think you'd have to order one without the system to get a regular key.

Okay.. back to the family room Christmas mess!!

hpowders · December 2004

It's amazing that an automatic door locking provision is not programmed into the smart key when you leave the car. In Tampa you must take the smart key. I guess we will just have to wait for the appearance of the genius key which will not only open the door locks, but will close them as well when you leave the car-all for only $2000.

Pardon me, but I think I see an untouched quart of eggnog.

Happy Holidays!!

garyh1 · December 2004

"No kidding! Proof positive that Lexus doesn't build cars, they build personal luxury isolation/entertainment chambers. Not that there's anything wrong with that."

I have been thinking about this comment re: Pat's (correct) observation that the thread was getting too off subject wrt HDTV. I take it nvbanker saw it as representative of the people who own LSs being more interested in creature comforts than the "pure" driving experience that MB and BMW owners like to refer to. It finally dawned on me that I believe it represents something quite different. Certainly, it says that LS owners have disposable income to spend-- that's a given. But the depth of knowledge shown and the interest displayed in what kind of TV to buy, actually fits with the type of person who carefully researches (both by data review and driving experience) what kind of car to buy, and ends up owning an LS, rather than a German lux car still riding on past laurels-- and bothers to talk about it in an internet discussion group.

To me,

MB or BMW= plasma (old tech, but still good press)

LS= LCD projection (best overall luxury value)

Rolls/Maybach/Bentley?= LCD flat panel (money no object)

sv7887 · December 2004

Hi All,

Yes, mine had a sticker of $62.7K I thought I got a decent deal..My current '02 had suffered from a rash of bad luck (Shopping carts, daydreaming drivers hitting the bumper, etc)..I had gone to another Lexus dealer and they let me walk out of the showroom at $20.5K..They were only giving me $34K for my trade which was unacceptable. The Mercedes wasn't in the same league as the '05 LS430..I'm sure a of Blizzak snow tires will be sufficient for winter weather. I have Michelin Artic Alpins right now and have been very disappointed with the results. My older 92 LS has Blizzaks and is dynamite in the snow.

The Smart Key sounds like an interesting concept..I'll surely find it strange the first few days. I liked the idea of a backup camera too..I don't know what it is with these cars, it makes me feel like a kid again..My wife likes to say, "boys never grow up, the toys just get more expensive!"

SV

wwest · December 2004

No such animal?

Isn't TI's DLP a form of projection?

chasfj · December 2004

What I especially like about Smart Key is you can associate each of the Smart Keys with one of the three memory buttons. So if someone drives the car using the other key, as soon as I touch the door handle to unlock the door, the seats, mirrors, etc all return to my settings.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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