Volvo S60

confused7 · April 2006

Hi Everyone,

I'm very concerned with 1) safety, then 2) price, then 3) looks, and I want to spend around $25,000. Also, I'm tall and like head room and decent lumbar support.

For safety results, I've been consulting both IIHS and Safercar.gov. The IIHS site lists rear crash tests, which is very helpful.

I could buy a Subaru - dowdy, but great visibility - but it has no Electronic Stability Control which I gather is pretty important.

I could buy a Saab 9-3, 2004 or 2005 models, Arc only as Linear is so maligned, but I'm worried about reliability.

I could buy a Volvo S60 (the S40's too small) (which got strangly opposite scores from the two safety sites, namely: IIHS rated it good Front Crash, but only acceptable Side Crash, and Safercars.gov rated it 4 out of 5 stars front, and 5 out of 5 side. Anyone know if this is significant?

I'm happy to buy a used (ideally certified, right?) model to keep the costs down, esp as I need an automatic, and would like leather seats (maybe even heated!)

The Lexus IS 250 and the BMW 325 garnered excellent safety ratings (from IIHS) only in the 2006 (and therefore too expensive) models.

What should I buy?

Two more questions: should I worry that a 2005 car sold at a Saab dealership with very low miles is not 'certified'.

Also, is there a reason to avoid buying a 'loaner', the car the dealer gave out when his customers' cars were in the shop..?

Thank you for any advice.

qbrozen · April 2006

i'll throw out some opinions in no particular order.

Loaner - I personally believe loaners see a very hard life. I have a loaner right now, as a matter of fact, and I'm beating the heck out of it.

certified - on an '05, it doesn't exactly strike me as strange that its not certified. they most likely figure its new enough that it still has a decent amount of the factory warranty left. Certifying a car costs them extra money and, consequently, they have to get more for the car from the buyer. I'm sure, if you really wanted to, you could negotiate to have it certified if you pay a certain price (ie, "i'll pay $500 under asking price if its certified").

what should you buy? yikes! well, if its down to the volvo vs saab, i suggest volvo. yes, i'm biased, but i've also checked out quite a few saabs in my time and always found them very cheap feeling compared to volvo.

You can easily get a year or 2 old volvo with leather and auto within your pricerange. A fair price for a certified '05 2.5T with leather and ~15k miles should be right around $24k.

confused7 · April 2006

Thank you, gbrozen. You seem to know what you're talking about...

Re the Volvo S60 then, how do you feel about a) turning radius b) remarks re engine stalling on the freeway (I've read a few complaints about this...) ?

volvomax · April 2006

my .02

loaners, contrary to popular belief most loaner cars don't get abused. We, like other dealers keep very good track of our loaners. If anyone abuses one they are cut off forever.
Loaners involve a substantial investment for a dealership, it is in our best interests to make sure that they are free from harm. Plus most, if not all of our customers are very gentle w/ the loaner cars so abuse really isn't an issue.

Ceritified, most 05's won't be since they aren't old enough to justify the warranty costs.

Volvo vs Saab. No surprise I favor the Volvo.
One, resale will be better for the Volvo
Two, you have a bigger dealer network, better access to parts.
Three, Saab is in decline right now, Volvo isn't. Saabs future is precarious at best. What this will do to values in the future who knows.

qbrozen · April 2006

Frankly, turning radius doesn't bother me. There are way too many other important aspects to a car. The incredibly comfy seats in a Volvo easily overshadow taking a couple more feet to make a u-turn.

i don't know about this engine stalling problem you speak of. Maybe volvomax knows something about it.(??)

he's right about the certified on the '05, which is the same reason I said that '05 saab wasn't certified. But, again, you could always negotiate to get something certified, if you want.

volvomax - i didn't mean i run over children with it or something ... its the abuse you don't see that takes its toll. Hard driving (picture mario andretti on his day off) on a brand new car with no miles isn't necessarily a good thing. That is what I would worry about. Now, a DEMO car, on the other hand, could be different. People drive MUCH nicer when a salesperson is in the car with them.

ter6 · April 2006

Do NOT buy a SAAB

My 2000 9-5 just went up in flames--it was a lemon and Saab refused to take responsibility--last month it was in the dealer for a service (I spent many $1,000s on repairs) and two days later, flames were shooting out of the hood --the front end burned to the ground. Thank goodness it didn't burn in my garage and take the house with it. Saab was not interested in the fire, the dealer would not refund the repair charges that apparently caused it--my insurance company is looking into suing them.

confused7 · April 2006

God, very sorry to hear about your Saab... thank you for the advice... maybe passing along that info to me will bring you better luck... karma (carma?) et al...

grantchstr · April 2006

The problem however could be your dealer........
........One time after a regular service I picked up my Jensen from a snazzy "Competitive Sports Car" dealer and after a few miles noticed a thumping sound and wobbly steering. I pulled off the motorway (UK) - it was dark and I couldnt see anything and called the AA. To cut a long story short these clowns had forgotten to put on the wheels nuts. The wheels were slowly coming off the car!!!!!!

ter6 · April 2006

Don't want to get too off topic, but my Saab was a horrible car--I think the dealer did have a role in the fire, however it was being checked for a recall on the electrical system so it's hard to know. I had to replace the head gasket and brake booster at about 35K--and many other major items, even the dealer commented about how lousy it was performing, but I couldn't afford to replace the car. In any case, I learned my lesson. Am looking at a Volvo, owned them before and had great luck.

dfc3 · April 2006

FWIW, I've driven Volvos as a brand loyal type for about 15 years. I just traded in my Volvo S60 (2004) for a 2006 Mercedes-Benz C280. The S60 is a fine car; never had any problems with it. My wife drives a 1998 V70 with no issues. I was always happy with Volvo. My knocks on the V70 were the hideous turning radius and the so-so visibility. The weaker 240 ran circles around the S60 in both these areas. I got spoiled. The 240 (I had one either mine or my wife's for 14 years) had a 32' turning radius; near zero problems, and great visibility. Too bad they didn't put the S60 engine into it. Just my opinion.

Anyway... still have the V70; would recommend the S60 if you don't mind the things that bugged me.

rpark · April 2006

I have no problem with the turning radius iin my S60 AWD, in fact it's pretty good. BUT I also have the standard 16" wheels and tires. From what I have seen, the problem is more prevalent with those who have 17's or 18's. Visibility is not so good looking to the passenger side because of the seat/pillar positioning and thick rear pillar, so a little extra care is needed there. I guess it's because all the pillars are on the thick side, so you have to look around them. Just my two cents.

nbist2460 · April 2006

Mine is 04, s60 and at 22.5k miles the signal "Time for regular service" poped up. Can anyone tell me how to make it disappear, i thought the service should come at 15k or 30k ?
Or do i have to take it to the dealer and pay them to fix ?
Any info will be appreciated.
thanks

lev_berkovich · April 2006

Regular scheduled maintenance interval is 7500 miles or ~10,000 km.

That is why light comes on for several seconds. You can just ignore it, but I recommend to change oil at least and have mechanic re-set it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your car.

iycrra · April 2006

Does Volvo still offer free maintenance the first 36K or 46k or something like this? Audi still does it. I heard Marcedez did away with this program.

Thanks.

lev_berkovich · April 2006

Volvo offers a complimentary first 7500 maintenance on 2006 models.

volvomax · May 2006

A service is due every 7500 miles.
You 04 has free services up to and including the 30k service.
Call your dealer, take the car in and get your free service.

iycrra · May 2006

Thanks for the info. I'm doing my DD on my next new car. Although Edmunds has True cost to own info, I was wondering among Volvo, Mercedez, Acura and Lexus, who gives the most grieve when it comes to service charges.

Thanks.

lev_berkovich · May 2006

The dealer-based service is expensive for Volvo.
I have been lucky having a friend (automotive engineer from former Soviet Union)running Indy Volvo/Saab shop, where I do all the maintenance since my car went out of warranty. I have found on many occasions that he understands modern cars better than so called "certified" mechanics. In my mind - general education means much more than rather superficial "certification".

Find knowledgeable independent mechanic - this is your best bet. 90% of common problems either does not require a computer to resolve, or can be resolved with the "generic" aftermarket computers that are available to the Indies.

rpark · May 2006

Of the four manufacturers you listed, they are all expensive for maintenance and repairs; after all, they are premium brands. My experience indicates you will likely spend more on repairs for the european cars vs. the Japanese ones. A check of reliability statistics (e.g., Consumer reports)bears this out. They all have pretty good warranties, so the extra expense will come later when you are out of warranty and need repairs. I have owned Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, and Volvo, and it was neck and neck between Lexus and Infiniti for reliability (Lexus by a nose). One thing I've noticed is there are a lot of independent Volvo mechanics around, so you could save some bucks there - but I ask - Why ARE there so many?
BTW, from my experience I think you would spend the most with a Mercedes (or BMW) post-warranty. That said, don't make your decision based soley on repair & maintenance costs, but rather keep it as one of your deciding factors when it comes down to a choice between a couple cars you really like. No car is perfect.

iycrra · May 2006

Thank you so much you guys for your thoughtful and insighful info.

I've owned Infiniti and Honda. Both quality cars. I haven't had my infiniti recalled or serviced out of norm. I took my infiniti in for driver-side window swith, that stopped working because my daughter poured water it it

. But they fixed it for me. I've had nothing but good thing to say about my QX4. Nice quality workmanship interior.

But thanks for your info.

bist2460 · May 2006

thanks a lot, i will call the dealer for service..you've been a great help for all volvo owners.....

leftcoast2 · May 2006

My 03 serice light came on the first time and my mechanic reset it during oil change. The second time it came on I stopped by the volvo garage and a tech reset it for me no charge in 4 seconds flat. Happy motoring.

confused7 · May 2006

and anti-Saab information), I just bought a 2006 S60 T5. It has 7500 miles on it. It has the Premium package, and I guess because it's a T5, it has a sport suspension and 17" tires which came standard. [ I hadn't been looking for the T5 (2.5 T would have been sufficient), but got a good deal. ]

1) Highway driving is very, very bumpy. Any suggestions as to what to do? 16" tires or something? [The car doesn't have the chassis option which would solve the problem, and I assume such a thing cannot be installed, right?]

2) I live in the West Los Angeles area. If / when I need to take it in for service, does anyone have good/bad experiences with the various dealers around here?

Thank you.

lev_berkovich · May 2006

1. Yes. 16' will improve the ride considerably
2. I have very good experience with the Calabasas Volvo.

And once you will be out of warranty, I will recommend one INDY - Classic Cars of Sweden in Van Nuys.

Look 'em up...

confused7 · May 2006

Thank you very much for the advice. What does one do with four 17" tires that are nearly new? Can I swap them in for comparable 16" ones (maybe at your Classic Car place?!) Or are they useful to have on hand for some odd emergency?

Per Lev, I'll make the drive to Calabasas, unless someone tells me Santa Monica Volvo service is also very good... Anyone?

fred3 · May 2006

I'm looking to buy a car for my wife. She has a major allergic problem to new car smells. (I have a 2-year old Toyota Avalon that still has enough smell to bother her.) Volvo has made a big deal that their recent cars have eliminated many of the chemicals that are toxic in new cars.

Question 1: Would anyone like to comment on the degree of new-car-smell in the S60? Anyone who'd like to compare the S60 smell to that of a Toyota Avalon or Toyota Camry?

Question 2: Another alternative is to buy a used S60 -- say a 2004 model. Anyone have one, and could comment on the smell in that?

Thanks

lev_berkovich · May 2006

Classic Cars is a pure mechanical shop. I buy tires on Internet and install them at American Tire Depot in Van Nuys (corner of Oxnard and Hazeltine)- really nice family-owned shop. They might help you out.

lev_berkovich · May 2006

Sorry, forget to mention one thing - you have to replace the rims, not just tires, going from 17 back to 16".

It could be really expensive. I think you would have to live with the somewhat harsh ride, having better looks and somewhat better handling in exchange.

confused7 · May 2006

Just bought a 2006 S60 T5. It had been put on the road Dec 1, 2005 and was a service loaner at the dealership since then, running up about 7500 miles.

It still smells like leather, if that is what bothers your wife.

BTW I just test drove the 2007 Camry - I'm 5'10" and the front seat is incredibly short for me - passed on it. Didn't note the smell.

confused7 · May 2006

I am sure replacing four tires and rims would be a fortune. It's amazing that Volvo worked so hard on the ergonomics and safety and created a car that clocks every bump with such diligence.

For the record, my tires are Pirelli P235/45 R17 Four Seasons DOT XB CU 236 2505 E3 (just wrote everything down that was on the tire)... This translates into good handling but harsh ride.

If Volvomax is reading this, would he/she care to comment as well? Thank you.

volvomax · May 2006

Well, first of all you bought a sport sedan.
The S60 T5 was designed for high speed driving and better than average reflexes.
Good handling in an emergency is paramount for good vehicle safety.
A cushy riding car won't be able to make an emergency lane change or turn with the same degree of confidence that a car with a more aggressive setup could.
You may never use the capabilities af an S60 T5 or BMW or Audi, but there is a reason why European cars ride differently from their American or Japanese counterparts.
As for the wheel issue. You may be able to swap the wheels and tires with your selling dealer for a set of 16" wheels and tires. Especially if you don't have any miles on your set. Probably won't get an even exchange, but it would be better than having to go to the parts dept and pay $300 a wheel plus tires. However, even if you do this, you may not notice much of a change.
Here is why. First of all the S60 T5 spring and shock setup would be unchanged. Suspension has more to do with road feel than just the tires do.
Also, you wouldn't gain much size in the tire. The S60 T5 has a tire size of 235/45/R17. That is a tire that is 235 mm wide and 105.75mm tall. The 16" wheel on the S60 2.5T is 215/55/R16, or 215mm wide and 118.25mm tall. You would gain 12.5mm in tire height. not much. While the side wall would gain some flexibility the basic suspension setup would be unchanged. Also, you would be losing 20mm of contact patch. Which when you are trying to put 257hp through the front wheels can come in very handy.

xmf314 · May 2006

Per Lev, I'll make the drive to Calabasas, unless someone tells me Santa Monica Volvo service is also very good... Anyone?

I have used Volvo of Santa Monica to service my 2001 S60 for the past five years. Their service has always been good.

confused7 · May 2006

Thank you, Volvomax, for the explanation about the tires. I'll get used to the bumpiness, I'm sure. It's a great car. Also, thank you xmf314... glad to hear SM's service is good.

volvomax · May 2006

I'm sure you will get used to the difference. They really are great road cars.

kasperghost · May 2006

I hit a piece of retread on the highway and had my car in the shop for a month (another story). When I got it back with 8k on it, it still smelled like new leather. My wife has many allergies (corn, wheat, soy, chicken, and many, many outdoor allergies) has never commented on the smell. She never said anything about her 2001 Nissan Pathfinder either, so...

IMHO, it smelled less chemically than our Pathfinder.

What did your wife say when she smelled the car?

kasperghost · May 2006

What do people clean their steering wheel and shift knob with? When I first got my car, the leather has a wonderful smooth feel to it. 10k in, it is sticky first thing in the morning on my way to work. Not bad, just tacky. I don't want to bleach or dry the leather out. Suggestions?

Thanks

robr2 · May 2006

It's just dirty and yucky. Try any of the good leather cleaners like Lexol.

westham · May 2006

I have a 2002 S60 with 44K miles. The Service light has come on and gone off periodically and now I have a message that reads Bulb out position Light. I've checked all of the lights and can't find one out? When it first appeared it came and went periodically but now stays on permantly........does anyone know why? :confuse: I'm thinking it may be a con to get me back to the dealer so they can get more $$'s for "recommended service"

lev_berkovich · May 2006

Read my post 2026 on S80 thread. This is a real, but easily fixable problem.

westham · May 2006

Thanks for the reply..........perhaps I can get it replaced under the 4 yr 50K warranty.

lev_berkovich · May 2006

Nope,
I would not think so - bulbs are considered the normal expendables, but try...

haguehog · May 2006

Confused7:

Hope the smell problem goes away and I have a slightly different question for you:

How much (or maybe more appropriately how much off MSRP or relative to Invoice) did you pay for your loaner? I'm looking at an S60 2.5T AWD which was the "retired demo" car used by the owner of the dealership. It has 6200 miles on it. As it is really loaded (premium pkg, climate, convenience, nav, sport, 6 disc CD and blue-tooth)it may be hard to compare directly, hence the question about relative to MSRP or invoice.

Thanks in advance for any help.

confused7 · May 2006

I don't really know exactly what invoice or MSRP was... low to mid 30s basically.

I paid $25,400 for the 2006 T5, which was put on the road late November 2005. It has more hp than the 2.5T (257 vs 208) and is a sports vehicle, meaning there's not a sport pkg per se. It had 7400 miles on it. The only package was Premium. No nav, no climate, only a single disc CD, no chassis choice (or whatever it's called - to make your ride less bumpy, which it will be if you get the 17" wheels - see my other notes above re this). But has things like: leather, auto-dim mirrors, power seats on both driver and pass side, satellite radio prep.

Didn't manage to find a car that had heated seats (being in So Cal and all that) but I negotiated a 6-yr 100k certified warranty into the deal... really wanted that.

Someone want to tell me whether I got a good deal or not?

Have you put in all the detail on your car to find out its MSRP?

leftcoast2 · May 2006

I concur. Bought my s60 2003 in Calabasas but live in SM. Service has been very good for all 3 visits.

confused7 · May 2006

which place did you take the car for service those 3 visits, Calabasas or SM?

leftcoast2 · June 2006

Oh yes, sorry,not being clear. I go to Santa Monica Volvo in the AM just before opening. I had the fortunate pleasure to deal with Nino,who is the service mgr. and Martin for other visits whom I also give top service reviews. Drop the car off and they'll give you a suttle ride home

westham · June 2006

Hi again, Just to let you know I went to my local dealer in Pasadena, they replaced one bulb in rear tail light and one for license plate ................ no charge for parts or labor ........... covered under the 4 yr/50k warranty.
Thanks again for your help.
Take care

c60owner · June 2006

My 2002 C60 (48,500 miles)has a slight vibration under 20 mph but it's not constant. Has anyone else experienced this?

floydfly · June 2006

I just bought an '02, and have been getting about 20 in town (with quite a bit of lead-footing) (hey, it's new).
Took it on a road trip, and got 30mpg in high altitude mountain driving.

grantchstr · June 2006

I have a 2001 S60 and I recently received a letter from the Volvo dealer where I bought the car. The pitch is that they wanted 2001 S60s and were offering attractive trade-ins on new models - I am tempted to get a new S60. I suppose that this is just a "come-on"? Why on earth would Volvo WANT 2001 Volvos? If this were really true I might be interested. A negative point cropped up - apparently my expensive $2400 extended warranty purchase will be money down the drain as a warranty will not increase the value of my car for a Volvo dealer - however I am sure it will anywhere else.

Volvo S60

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