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There is no "clear safety advantage" between vehicles of differing weights in the NHTSA side-impact crash test.
Furthermore, the weight difference between the two vehicles is under NHTSA's 250 lbs class differentiation limit for front-impact tests. So there is no clear safety advantage based on weight either.
From NHTSA:
Depending on the weight of a vehicle, it can be compared to other vehicles in its class. Since a frontal crash test into a fixed barrier is similar to a crash between two vehicles of the same weight, the frontal crash test results can only be compared to other vehicles in the same weight class and those plus or minus 250 lbs.
Side crash test results can be compared across all classes because all vehicles are hit with the same barrier and at the same force.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm
~alpha
Motor Trend, May 2002:
"You also get stuck with an old-tech OHV engine, an unsophisticated ride, plasticky materials and the least attractive interior design of the group."
Final ranking, 4th out of 5. Comparison won by the Camry.
Car and Driver, Dec. 2001:
"The dash has that same first-draft look, a clutter of shapes that never make friends with each other."
"The driver's seat gets poor marks..." In the back seat, "Space is reasonably generous, comfort is scarce."
"Over the road, this is a heavy-footed car, making clops and clunks rather as if it was wearing boots. Body structure feels less rigid than the others' "
"Lows: The driver seat, the back seat, and the showcase of mold parting lines on plastic parts."
"The Verdict: GM has learned how to make money, and it shows."
Final score: Impala 6th out of 8, Camry 2nd, comparison won by Accord.
So in these two reviews from major auto publications, the Camry had the Impala for lunch, and still had room for dessert.
There is a certain intangible goodness that someone who has owned a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan, or any Japanese car knows about. It's something that up to now, GM, Ford, or Chrysler can't seem to approach. We now own a '01 Altima and a '96 Corolla and I smile every time I drive either of them. That intangible feeling of goodness that one gets. Can anyone else out there understand this or help me phrase it better?
The Sandman :-)
: )
Mackabee
I imagine this data will also show up in their annual March magazine issue which will be out in a month.
And, I have been following this board and others for quite some time, and am aware of the issue, and have also seen some posts, here and in the maintenance and repair boards where the Camry rattle issues have gone unresolved for some people.
That was actually an ancillary point to the main one which was that rattles do not constitute a reliability issue. Unless that rattle is your piston jumping out of the cylinder, rattles have nothing to do with how the car runs.
The reason that squeeks and rattles that show up in first year cars bring down their reliability is that not much else goes wrong when a car is that new. A 2 or 3 year old car with the same squeeks and rattles could still be rated as excellent reliability. I think that the 02 Camry will be rated better next year as the competition ages, and starts to also develop some squeeks and rattles. The 03 has alsoprobably addressed most of the problems.
Historically, Toyota products have ranged from average to much above average reliability. Ford products have ranged from much below average to average reliability. Or in other words - the most reliable Fords are about as reliable as the least reliable Toyotas.
I think Toyota definitely has some problems in assembly quality with the new Camry. Because the Toyota Motor Corp builds the best assembled, lowest defect cars in the world (Lexus), they certainly know how to improve assembly quality, which they probably will do with the Camry.
Alpha, Mackabee, Cliffy and other Toyota buffs help a brotha out
I hope it's no longer standard, because I hated it anyway. Loosing the spoiler would be one more reason for me to buy the Camry SE.
The price of a loaded SE drops by about $900 now since the moonroof is standard. It's now cheaper than the Accord or Altima. Toyota is winning my favor.
Thanks in advance
I don't know what I am going to do. The Camry is now cheaper, the Altima is about to get an updated interior, and a new Galant is on the way.
If anyone at your dealership can reference in any way a solution to the common dash and door pillar rattles please make a post in the Camry Rattles forum.
I really want to love this car but the rattles are a constant irratant. Also, irregrdless of the criteria a CR average rating will be noticed...especially by Nissan/Honda competitors and the Ford vultures (perhaps to harsh) who can't wait to jump on this. Toyota is making a big mistake if they think this is going away. I want my the rattle free above average Camry that I paid for and if a few trim corrections will resore that image then I say Toyota should give them to us!
If you are looking at the 4cyl. please splurge and get the alloy rims-the plastic hubcaps that are standard really dont do anything for the car.
~alpha
TIA ... Chris H
Whenever they don't say what you want them to say.
When they say what you want to hear, then they are gospel.
Also, if I get the Camry, I'll be getting the SE I4 5spd. manual. I would definately opt for the alloy wheels. The SE's wheels look the best IMO.
Now, the reason you are having troubles is because dealers in the Southeast don't sell those plans. They sell ones backed by a company called JM&A. Being a Toyota dealer, they MUST honor the service coupons. Whatever the coupon lists, they have to do.
There probably were also some other coupons in your book that were dealership specific. Those are normally for discounts off things like front end alignments, transmission flushes and things like that. They were NOT the pre-paid items though.
I hope this helps.
On the other hand, many other reporting agencies, JD Power being the most prominent example, do indeed count every defect equally. This is one reason the annual JD Power results have to be taken in context with all of the other available data - CU's continue to be the absolute best, most widely available, and statistically significant data that a consumer has access to. The only better source would be the manufacturer's warranty data, which is more closely guarded than most nuclear bombs.
First, they organize the survey results into "trouble spots" (engine, cooling, transmission, etc.) They filter the survey results at this point only counting defects "deemed serious on account of cost, failure, compromised safety, or downtime". The result is a coded circle for each trouble spot based on the percentage of survey respondents reporting serious defects for that trouble spot.
Then, they obtain an overall reliability score for the vehicle. Here, they do the second weighting (the one you point out) by giving extra weight to engine, cooling system, and transmission. Thus, the overall reliability score is some type of weighted average for the vehicle. The overall score, unlike the trouble spot scores, is not based on percentage of people reporting problems, but rather on how the vehicles overall score compares to other vehicles overall scores.
I also agree that the CR data is the best and most statistically significant reliability data available to the public. Now that I understand how they do the two weightings of defects, I'm even more impressed. It never ceases to amaze me how often in these forums there are postings dismissing the CR data as misleading "statistics" and recommending annecdotal evidence (what Uncle Frank says about his Accord and what Aunt Martha says about her Camry) as a better guide.
~alpha
Does anyone know what is the Engine and transmission warranty for 2000 V6 Camry? Toyota dealer told me 3 year or 36,000 miles. I thought it was 50,000 miles for both coverage. Thanks
: )
Ken
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Camry/mechanis- m/index4.html
~alpha
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
Let me say this, My model and many others are late 2002s with rattle issues. I was never: 'polled'. Mt dealer is unaware of any fixes for known door pillar and dash rattle complaints - other than rip the thing apart and try to put it back together. When I called Toyota they could not describe who was 'polled' and more impotantly why I was not. They could not describe one modification on the 2003 where a rattle issue was addressed. Basically the press release was smoke and mirrors trying to make best of a bad situation. It's too late now as they have dropped to an avaerage rating in CR. While the engine and tranny 'may' still be way above par overall the car's rating has fallen. I am still waiting to see what the Toyota reaction will be, this is like new territory for them...though you think they would have learned something from the sludge issue. If you are a long time owner you are likely so positive on the car you will over look, ignore or not admit to the rattles as you will be too pridefull and protective in your vehicle to admit them. I am not picking on these folks, for years they have consistently purchased some of the best made cars in the world and they should have this attitude. If however you are a domestic owner switching to Toyota realize it is a superior automaobile but not so superior as many on this board will have you believe. To me, I am still awaiting the day when Toyota issues a TSB to eliminate these annoyances and then perhaps I will see things in a while new light. Again, if rattles don't bother you the you can't go wrong.
I feel that no automaker is immune to first year quality issues, as evidenced by this COMPLETELY redesigned Camry (the first new platform since the 92 models), and numerous recent Honda intros, namely the Civic and Odyssey. (Time will tell how the Accord fares.)
In any case, I think after having gone through 1.5 model years now, many of the niggling trim issues are likely to have been worked out, and I'll bet that next year, the Camry will get a "better than average" or "much better than average" ranking.
Its easy for people on these boards to make statements that appear all-encompassing. Yes, the Camry has suffered trim quality issues since 2002. But I doubt it will affect the long term reliability of these cars.
just my take, as we are quite happy with our (American made) 2002.
~alpha