Well, I finally got to test drive a Camry SE V6 yesterday. One word: AWESOME.
My test car was equipped as follows (which is not exactly how I would equip one, but it was the only one of 3 SE V6s on the lot that wasnt sold).
Salsa Red Pearl FE- 50 State Emissions VD- Skid Control HM- Premium Pkg HD- Heated Seats RF- Rear Spoiler CF- Carpeted Floormats NI- Auto Dimming Mirror VS- Security System 32- Sport Pedals MSRP: $27,747
I've never seen a V6 Camry with VD option, meaning Skid Control but no side airbags, I thought that was interesting. My first impression upon entering the vehicle was how much different the SE (especially with the perforated leather of the premium package) looks from the LE/XLE. Hands down, I prefer the SE. Although I was skeptical at first, I thought the silver gauge cluster with soft orange lighting was excellent, easily readable.
Throttle response is very strong, although I was unable to "gun" it, as the salesperson was riding with me and the car had but 35 miles on it, there was definite power, ESPECIALLY in the midrange (logical since the vehicle peaks at 240lb. ft. at 3600 RPM). The felt goodly quicker than my 2.5L Sentra, which has been clocked at 7.9 seconds to 60.
Handling around corners is notably more composed than the LE/XLE, and we drove over some rough roads- the ride of the SE isn't too harsh or firm, but again, you will notice a difference from the other trim lines.
Otherwise, this is pure Camry, meaning pure Toyota, and everything was well executed.
Seriously folks, if you're considering a Camry, and can swing a little higher payment, the SE V6 is the way to go. If you arent interested in the power, and appreciate fuel effiency, the SE 4 cyl would be my choice, because it still offers the improved handling without a significant detriment to the ride.
So, after my drive was over, although I stated that I wasnt immediately looking for a new vehicle, the salesman offered to work some numbers for me. Knowing the regional rebates and financing, I let him roll... he never explicitly stated the rebate amount to me, just said that he would give me the car for $500 under invoice, which isnt a bad deal given that I did NO haggling. He quoted me $24,200 +TTL, extremely close to the carsdirect.com price of $24,074. In fact, were I purchasing the vehicle, I probably wouldnt bother haggling over the $100, as the sales guy was so great and everything was so easy. I HIGHLY recommend Dick Milham Toyota in Easton, PA, for anyone in the region. Anyone can email me for more details, as I dont want to infringe on any Edmund's rules.
Dude you must have read my mind. On my way in to work this morning I said to myself, "mmm... I wondered if Alpha01 went for the test drive?" First, isn't there a huge difference from reading about a vehicle than testing it out for your self? Tell me was it choppy or harsh? I noticed not as spongy as the XLE, but firm and gave me a confident feeling when cornering at sharp turns. When we test drove one of the demos there was no salesmen with us, you can shurely bet we "gunned the [non-permissible content removed]!" We felt the power and vehicle come alive. The VD package is one way the dealers are offering the vehicle, adding side air bags is about $500.00 and vice versa. For the extra $$$ we are getting ours with both. Hey the interior color, was it the dark charcoal? The security system should have been a V5 was the one you tested a VS, was that something offered in that region? Man that pricing is really good, was it because they were trying to move them (alot in stock)? I am suprised, the CD pricing was that what they were selling for or was that the invoice pricing of $24,074 on the CD site? Tell us, honestly would you recommend now the Camry SE V6 over the Accord EX V6? :-)
So, I've never driven the EXV6, but I cant imagine it feels much different from the EX 4 that I've driven. It'd be a tough call.
Unfortuantely, the super nice sales guy was about 350lbs, and thats being conservative, so I'm sure that made the car feel a bit slower than it would have been with just me in there... but it still felt very quick. And yes, the Security System is V5, I mis-read the writing. The $24,074 CarsDirect pricing is their actual offer, not the invoice. This SE V6 was the only unsold SE V6 on the lot. It just seemed to be a very up-front dealership- salesdude said theres more interest in the Camry SE V6 as more people hear about its bigger engine. The interior was charcoal. It was a bit dark, and I have no preference for seat heaters, so were I in the market, I think I might look for a beige cloth SE, but who knows... One day....
Here's what I'm wondering- since the Avalon, built in KY will be going to the 3.3L VVTi V6 next year when it is redesigned, I wonder if Toyota will then cease production on the 3.0L VVTi V6, and then all V6 Camrys for the 05 refresh will be the 3.3L 225hp units in the SE? Any ideas?
You know its funny, because we were first looking at the V6 XLE Camry, but the new engine was not being offered in that trim. When I spoke with Toyota of California they stated that the reason why they did not put the 3.3L engine in the XLE was because of the exrta weight and the suspension would not be able to take it. Unless they beef up the suspensions of their vehicles the 3.3L may not be able to be placed in them. The interior of the vehicle you test drove was it close to black or black in color itself? Our vehicle is suppose to becoming with the Dark Chorcoal interior (Code: LB14), I hope its close to black. From my understanding the Avalon is suppose to look close to the LS430 from LEXUS. Man if we could have waited we would have purchased that vehicle, it has a nicer interior than the Camry's. But don,t get me wrong the SE's sporty trim looks cool, my wife like the "elegant wood look".
Arent there any others out there who want to talk about this car? Maybe we are just too domineering, lol.
The "elegant wood" is none the less "elegant fake wood", and that line the Toyota of California people gave you is pure BS, because there were no modifications to the suspension of the ES330, at least not that were made public, in Lexus Press Release of changes to the 2004 ES330, which pointed out even the minutest detail changes, such as an increase in seat mounted side airbag coverage area (a benefit shared with the Camry, but never stated in a PR). Since the ES330 shares it standard suspension with the Camry, I dont believe the Toy of Cali people. If I am wrong, and there were mods to the ES, it would have been mentioned somewhere, somehow, in someway.. but that doesnt seem to be the case.
The interior of the SE I drove was indeed named Charcoal, but it is Black for all intents and purposes.
Greetings all! I'm currentyly driving an 84 Corvette and I'm thinking of selling it and getting myself a new Camry or Prius. Prius is one choice because of the mileage and techno novelty, but I'm also interested in the Camry because of the size, reliability, storage (trunk) and mpg. I'm inviting any and all responses to which car I should consider and why. What is the mpg of the Camry on long (cross-country) trips? I'm thinking (back of my mind) about a new Corvette. Comfort, cruising speed and mpg are most important to me. Thanks to all in advance.
What do you mean "The interior of the SE I drove was indeed named Charcoal, but it is Black for all intents and purposes". Was it a black interior or just a dark gray??? Now I am confused. Also, those folks in Toyota of Calif. are confusing themselves. If you got an answer from one rep, then later called back and spoke to another rep you would fet a conflicting answer. To me they are like most cars sales people, they are not educated on the product they are selling. Same goes for alot of auto manufacturers. Tell me the suspension on the ES330, is it the same as the XLE's or the SE's? Because if the struts/suspension are the same part numbers then yes the Toyota of Calif. are incorrect. Then where did suspension for the SE come about, no other Toyota or Lexus vehicle has this suspension?
The interior: I believe its called "Charcoal", but to me, looked black. Very sharp. The SE has the same basic setup as the XLE/LE, but it is "tuned" differently. (Example- look under the hood of the SE, you'll see a Strut Tower Brace). Not sure about part numbers, but.... is it really that important? The ES330s suspension is related more closely to the LE/XLE than the SE. All I'm saying is that its hard to believe that the LE/XLE suspension couldnt "handle" the added weight of the 3.3L, and if it couldnt, that it would require more than modest modifications.
Cool, I am glad to hear the interior is black, its going to look cool with the Catalina Blue Met. exterior. The dealership didn't have an SE with the color we choosed to have built, we picked it from the 04 Camry book. This may sound weird, but I am going to try to understand why Toyota only put this engine in the SE. The new 04 Solara has this, probably because its newly redisgned subframe. The Avalon will have this new engine when it is redisgned next year. I am going to go out on a limb, but I am going to assume that the LE and XLE's struts/suspension may have to be re-inforced or the suspension altered to accomadate the 3.3L. I don't know if you remember the old Camry's before the 96-92 (?) shape. I knew of many people that had V6 engines in this "Boxy Shaped Model" that had suspension problem, (i.e control arm bushions wearing out prematuraly, etc.) Then the folks that had the 4's in the vehicle did not have this problem. The folk's that had the V6's were told that the suspension could not take the weight of the V6's (they goofed up). I am assuming that this is what Toyota is trying to prevent from happening again. We will all have to wait to see what happens in the 05 models, (I think by then we will be hearing of a Hybrid Camry for 05), but if the weight is an issue I don't see them placing the engine in the LE or XLE. What you think about by analitic approach?
Both Car and Driver and Motor trend have now reported on their long-term tests of the Camry SE V6, and both make it clear that the ride is smooth, even on concrete freeways.
The 3.3 should weigh within a few pounds of the 3.0. Toyota probably put the 3.3 in the SE, ES330, RX330, and Sienna to fit buyer demands, and probably kept the 3.0 in the LE and XLE due to production capacity constraints.
The $26,312 price of the SE V6 equipped as I like gives it a big edge over more expensive cars, but if I can not fit the things I need to carry in the trunk, I will buy a Chrysler Pacifica or Dodge Magnum. Too bad Toyota dropped the Camry wagon in an effort to force people into the Highlander, Sienna, or RX330.
nw- Your approach is sound. All I am saying is that if it is the case that the LE/XLE needs suspension enhancements, it shouldnt have been a big deal, given that the ES330 and the Camry share a platform and basic suspension setup. The Solara uses the Camry's platform, but different calibration in the suspension. Personally, I beleive that Toyota didnt want to go all out and absolutely kill the Avalons sales by putting the 3.3L in the Camry LE/XLE this year. (The Av has no side curtains, no 5sp auto, 5 year old design, etc.).
fsmmcsi- You are aware that the SE V6 now has a 225hp V6, correct? I find it difficult to believe that an 4cyl SE 5sp that Car and Driver clocked at 8.3 to 60 feels the same as the SE V6 automatic, which was clocked (Solara) at 6.9 seconds to 60. Additionally, the LE/XLE use a 210 hp engine.
I agree with your comments. Maybe Toyota felt that if people got the new 3.3L in the XLE why would they purchase an ES330, the XLE is a closer match than the SE, even with all the options an accessories I attempted to equip my vehicle with. It's probably all marketing. Also, fsmmcsi comments on the SE 4 cycl. We test drove it and it is no where close to the acceleration and feel of the new V6 engine. Fsmmcsi are you sure you comparing with the new engine or the old 3.0L?
I was wondering, do you have the 0-60 stats on your Camry.I know that the new Solara was clocked at 6.9s. Also, the SE V6 is a great deal when you consider the Camry is built at the same plant as the ES330.
I have not yet taken delievery of my vehicle, should be arriving mid December. From what I have been reading it should be doing 0-60 in 7 sec and under. From my experience with Toyota engines the 0-60, handling, MPG, braking, etc. improves as the mileage on the vehicle increase. The vehicle is truly broken in at around 10,000 miles, I noticed this also on our RX300. Also, in the states I am not too sure that the ES330 is built in Kentucky as the Camry, I was under the impression that they came straight from Japan. Alpha01, any clues as to where they are being built?
Don't get me wrong though. I don't think they are equal cars. There is no question that the Lexus is a much more luxurious car with more appointments and real wood if you like the wood trim but for the vast majority of us, the Camry is the better choice based soley on cost.
Exactly. What you said pretty much wraps up in a nutshell what I have been saying about the xle and what others have said about the se v6, especially the 04 model.
IMHO the camry is the better choice, hands down. I deal alot with computer hardware and there is a perfect analogy to this in computer hardware.
Lets take videocards for example. There are three levels of videocards, the low end crap, the high end bleeding edge technology (expensive) and then there is the "sweet" spot. The sweet spot represents where you have all of the key features at the lowest price. Yeah you can pay twice as much for a high end videocard, but you are just getting a few extra tweaks and faster framerates that the human eye cannot detect, only a benchmark program can tell the difference.
IMHO the camry xle or se is the sweet spot in the family sedan market, you get gobs of std features, some associated with luxury cars, safety, quality, etc, yet paying thousands less than the high end of the market (ie ES330). I agree the es330 is a nicer car, but there is nothing that it has that the camry does not have that justifies the extra dough. You can pay the thousands more, but you have a diminishing return on your investment.
Dudes I would never say that the ES330 and Camry are "equal" vehicles. What I am saying is that for the significant savings of $$$ you can get a similar or very close vehicle to the ES330. Both vehicles have the same engine same trany and subframe. The destinictive differences are the bells and whistels. If you are willing to give up a few of the features that are in the ES330 in oreder to save $$$ in the SE V6 Camry then its worth it to purchase the Camry. When we looked at both vehicles and test drove them both, we came to the following conclusions. While the ES330 is a much elegant vehicle, the Camry was offering the same dependability and quality for less. Any vehicle you buy, as soon a you drive it off the lot you will loose thousands. Would I rather loose more or less. We choosed to loose less and ordered the Camry. We do not live in our vehicles, it takes us from point A to B and that is what a vehicle does, but if some individuals want to "travel or feel that they are traveling in style", then hey spend the extra $$$, but we did not feel it was necessary to do so, but that's our opinion. We felt this way when we leased our RX300 and man for a 40,000.00 vehicle (a Toyota), it was not worth it and we were very pleased to return it after the lease was up. But hey thats our opinion.
'95 Camry LE 4cyl w/ auto How do I refill the differential fluid into upper refill hole/port after I drain it from the lower hole/port? Do I need a special tool or hose/filler? I'll perform this in my driveway with the car on jack stands.
P.S. I've already replaced the fluid and gasket in the transaxle.
NW1997, I deleted my comment on the 4m vs V6a, but Alpha01 had already commented on it. Some car magazine had remarked that the Camry 4 manual was not much slower than the old (2002) 3.0 V6 with the old four speed automatic. I have driven both, and agreed. The 3.3 V6 and five speed automatic in the 2004 Camry SE and ES330 (plus Sienna, RX330, and ?) is certainly substantially quicker than the 4.
As someone else mentioned, the four has to work too hard, especially in the heavier cars loaded with options, so it will wear out sooner.
I also agree with the "sweet spot" analysis. The Camry is certainly an excellent value, and the Lexus buyer is mainly paying for the different name plates on the car. The money Toyota makes on Lexus ES330 sales helps them to justify a better basic platform for the Camry and ES330.
Last Wednesday I had the occasion to test drive the 04 Camry SE sedan with the new 3.3 V6. I must tell you that to me it was neither fish nor foul. That is, the ride was harsh, the handling was not exceptional, and without a direct comparison to last year's SE V6, it was not too easy to tell any power difference. Thus, I plan to test the Solara SE V6 next. Hopefully, that will have a better ride.
My present car is a 99 Camry LE sedan - in comparison to the new SE V6, the 99 rides much smoother. That is hardly a selling point for the new model. It is unfortunate that the XLE V6 does not have the new engine. I would agree with the earlier post which surmised that it was a strategic move to avoid too many defections from the Lexus ES300.
I test drove an SE V6 Camry a week ago, and there is simply no WAY its ride can be described as harsh. It is firmer and more controlled than the XLE/LE, and its suspension allows it to handle curves with a significantly greater degree of finesse than those models as well.
profks- if you have a 99LE V6 (and certainly if you have a 4), and if you find the SE suspension not to your liking, you should have no issue with the XLE/LE V6 powertrain, as it is smoother, even more refined than it was back then. It offers similar if not better acceleration as well, thanks to its extra gear and added hp and torque. Why not look at those models?
When I drained the ATF fluid and removed the pan did the fluid in the differential also drain simultaneously?
When I removed the ATF pan drain bolt should I also have removed the lower drain bolt on the diff housing or would that have been redundant? Lastly when I re-filled the ATF fluid through the dipstick under the hood does this fill the diff? Does the ATF dipstick reading also account for the level of fluid in the diff housing?
I may not have used the best word to describe the experience. It was a choppy ride, not one I would associate with a Camry. I did own an 03 Accord EX-V6 for several months. That car had a well controlled and much more compliant ride than did this SE V6. Also, right now an astute buyer can purchase the Honda for $23,500-$23,800. Given the Honda's superior resale, it would be a no-brainer if I were in the market for a new car. Please understand, this is coming from someone who has owned Toyotas since 1977, and Camrys since 1985.
I agree with you that the XLE V6 would probably have a much better ride. I should note, however, I only test drove the SE for curiosity sake - my 99 Camry has only 45K miles and is all the vehicle I need at this time. When Toyota puts the hybrid system into a Sienna my interest will be peaked.
I had a test drive with a 3.3 SE and the I still feel that the ride is too isolated. What choppy ride are this people talking about? I don't feel the bumps but th power is there when you press the gas.
Why did you do with the 2003 Accord V6? don't you like it?I thought of trading my 2003 SE V6 for the Accord EX V6. I find the Camry SE's ride is too soft and steering is too isolated from the road.
What are these people test driving. There is NO WAY that the SE V6 04 Model is choppy, harsh or a "rough rider". I personally felt that the EX V6 Accord was much firmer of a ride than the SE V6. Alpha01, have you gotten a chance to test drive the Acoord EX V6 yet. Profks, what did you do with your 03 Accord??
Ummmm... I'm not sure. I've never actually done it myself, but I did ask one of our technicians about the differential fluid once and was told they have separate drain plugs but both fill from the same hole.
I sold my Accord EX-V6 on Ebay in September - not because I did not like it, but because I am having hip surgery next month and I wanted to be more liquid, just in case. However, a month later my wife's friend was about to trade her 99 Camry LE for a new Honda Odyssey - I saved her a bundle on the Odyssey through a contact and she gave me the Camry for the amount the dealer offered her in trade - and, I am still much more liquid.
As to the Camry SE V6 versus the Accord. I no longer have a horse in that race so I think that I can speak without bias - the Accord had a much better ride, a higher quality feel to the dash controls and it was a much better deal. Also, the resale value is better. One need only check the various used vehicle guides to confirm this assertion. Again, this is from a Camry owner, not a spy from Honda.
Hey, Cliffy, what is this charge? I've never seen it on an invoice before, but the dealer wants $259 for it on a new Camry (Solara). It's right after VDA and dealer holdback on the dealer inquiry sheet.
I don't think its fair to compare the 99 Camry to 03 Accord. The 03 Camry is only a test drive to compare with the amount of time of the Accord you own. Anyway I think Accord is a little on the sporty side and Camry on the luxury side.
Your dealer is an idiot. Take the base invoice from that printout and add the HB and WFR and you'll get the exact same number Edmunds gives for the base invoice before options and destination. Dealers that show this printout are just asking for an argument.
Yes, I was surprised to see that form (I think the heading said "Dealer Inquiry Report"), but the totals did throw me off. They did not match Edmunds. I'll do as you state and see if those numbers bring me back to the Edmunds total.
As always, your help is appreciated. Really, I just wanted to know what the out-the-door price was with the options I listed. That's all that really matters when you get down to it.
The VDA, I think you state that is pretty common to include. Thanks again.
Dealer says oil pump o-ring on my 94 camry 4 cyl is leaking. His replacement cost is $680. Does this sound reasonable. My car has 117k miles and I have recently replaced oil pan seal, transmission pan seal, and main seal for $1100. I am beginning to wonder when this is going to end...
The dealer I purchased my 04 SE V6 Camry from informed me Toyota last thrusday introduced a TSB regarding the front wheel misalignment. The car pulls left on its own. Dealers can do their best to rectify the situation for customers sensitive to this, however, Toyota engineers are still investigating the root cause to provide a solution to dealers. The dealer told me no recall on this is expected because it is not a safety concern. However, the solution for the TSB should eventually surface. This does not occur on the 02 or 03 SEs. Not sure if this problem is evident on the LEs and XLEs. Have any of the 04 SE owners heard of this and have info on when this issue will be resolved?
Problem is that it is all labor and all of the belts etc. have to come off to replace the seal. However, in my city a riming belt replacement is about $200 so all belts plus all seals maybe for $500-600.
Personally, if the leak is small and tolerable let it go until you need a new timing belt and everything done then. Strange that all ofyour seals and gaskets are going at once. Definitely get a second opinion as well.
i have a 03 camry SE that cames with keyless entry, recently all remotes that lock and unlock the doors doesn't function anymore. what are the chances all remotes battery went dead in less than one year? i wasn't paying much attention, but i think one remote didn't work first, then couple days later, i tried another remote, and it worked, then couple more days later, then all dead. i've also notice the Alarm security LED indicator not flashing either after i manually press Lock on the driver side door and waited more then a few minutes. anyone know what is wrong with it, and how to reprogram the remote again, or i have to bring it to the dealer.
Other than the rattles I really have to express my saftety concerns over the incredibly poor traction exhibitted by my 2002 4 cylinder Camry LE with Continental 15" tires. I do not have a heavy foot, ie I do not 'peel' out from the stopped position. I also do not fly down the highways. It's bad enough the car's front tires spin whenever I pull out from stop on an incline in the rain. The performance in the snow is down right abysmal. I am hesitatnt to take my family out anymore in even the slightest snow. The tires have only 15K miles on them and are wearing normally. I know the Toyota loyalists will blame the Continental tires. I have checked several tire dealers and dfferent tires can improve performance but even so, they will not likely turn this car into a 'safe' car to drive. I have driven Fords and Plymouths and never had this issue. I bought the Camry for it's reliability, fuel efficiency and supposed build quality. Lets just hope the reliability holds. I attribute the improved fuel efficency (over domestics) to a much lower over all body weight. Unfortunatley, that lower weight has perhaps created my safety concerns.
...and if someone can prove the tires are soley responsible for these issue then shame on Toyota for putting them on the car....AND SEND ME THE BRAND TO BUY!
I mentioned buying snow tires and chains. I live in Eastern Pa, the tires dealers laughed...guess they have not seen such poor traction in this area since they stopped selling rear wheel drive cars.
Anyone in my area have similar problems....Solutions?
Try changed your tires to Goodyear aquatread 3 as recomemded by C & R on their long term test Camry SE v6. My heavier SE v6 has no problem so far with the standard Michelin going thru the second Canadian winter. But there is no hill here to try the incline thing. Good luck!
I wonder how much heavier the SE v6 is and if the bigger/heavier engine is what make the difference...hope to hear from some others regular LE 4 cylinder owners be for I rush out and spend $$$ on tires only to have the same problem! THANKS FOR THE QUICK REPLY!
I cannot speak for the newer Camry, but I have a 96 Camry LE 4 cyl and live in Western PA. The most recent set of tires I put on it are BF Goodrich Control TA M65's. I have close to 10K miles on them now and so far, they have given good traction in a variety of road conditions. We had 8 inches of snow here this past weekend, and I did not have any problems getting around. Sure it was slow going, and a little bit of spinning at times... but never got stuck... and we have HILLS here! What you call hills in the eastern part of the state we call flat! :-)
I definitely think a better set of tires will solve the conditions you describe.
The Pirelli P400s (or was it P4000s?) that we've had on our Camry since the summer seemed to do my mother quite well in the recent inclement weather (02 Camry LE 4A), although I cannot speak first hand as I did not drive the car.
Andrelaplume- if you are really concerned, no doubt a set of snow tires might be your best bet for the winter. As far as all-seasons, I like the Pirellis on our Camry, but in either case, you'd do best to check out Consumer Reports.
Bought a 04 Camry XLE 4 cylinder. The user manual recommends to use gas octane 87 or higher. Is 87 good enough? Is it worth the money to use 89 or even higher instead of 87 ?
Comments
Well, I finally got to test drive a Camry SE V6 yesterday. One word: AWESOME.
My test car was equipped as follows (which is not exactly how I would equip one, but it was the only one of 3 SE V6s on the lot that wasnt sold).
Salsa Red Pearl
FE- 50 State Emissions
VD- Skid Control
HM- Premium Pkg
HD- Heated Seats
RF- Rear Spoiler
CF- Carpeted Floormats
NI- Auto Dimming Mirror
VS- Security System
32- Sport Pedals
MSRP: $27,747
I've never seen a V6 Camry with VD option, meaning Skid Control but no side airbags, I thought that was interesting. My first impression upon entering the vehicle was how much different the SE (especially with the perforated leather of the premium package) looks from the LE/XLE. Hands down, I prefer the SE. Although I was skeptical at first, I thought the silver gauge cluster with soft orange lighting was excellent, easily readable.
Throttle response is very strong, although I was unable to "gun" it, as the salesperson was riding with me and the car had but 35 miles on it, there was definite power, ESPECIALLY in the midrange (logical since the vehicle peaks at 240lb. ft. at 3600 RPM). The felt goodly quicker than my 2.5L Sentra, which has been clocked at 7.9 seconds to 60.
Handling around corners is notably more composed than the LE/XLE, and we drove over some rough roads- the ride of the SE isn't too harsh or firm, but again, you will notice a difference from the other trim lines.
Otherwise, this is pure Camry, meaning pure Toyota, and everything was well executed.
Seriously folks, if you're considering a Camry, and can swing a little higher payment, the SE V6 is the way to go. If you arent interested in the power, and appreciate fuel effiency, the SE 4 cyl would be my choice, because it still offers the improved handling without a significant detriment to the ride.
So, after my drive was over, although I stated that I wasnt immediately looking for a new vehicle, the salesman offered to work some numbers for me. Knowing the regional rebates and financing, I let him roll... he never explicitly stated the rebate amount to me, just said that he would give me the car for $500 under invoice, which isnt a bad deal given that I did NO haggling. He quoted me $24,200 +TTL, extremely close to the carsdirect.com price of $24,074. In fact, were I purchasing the vehicle, I probably wouldnt bother haggling over the $100, as the sales guy was so great and everything was so easy.
I HIGHLY recommend Dick Milham Toyota in Easton, PA, for anyone in the region. Anyone can email me for more details, as I dont want to infringe on any Edmund's rules.
~alpha
Good review!
It would be perfect if the SE V6 equips with auto climate control.
Dude you must have read my mind. On my way in to work this morning I said to myself, "mmm... I wondered if Alpha01 went for the test drive?" First, isn't there a huge difference from reading about a vehicle than testing it out for your self? Tell me was it choppy or harsh? I noticed not as spongy as the XLE, but firm and gave me a confident feeling when cornering at sharp turns. When we test drove one of the demos there was no salesmen with us, you can shurely bet we "gunned the [non-permissible content removed]!" We felt the power and vehicle come alive. The VD package is one way the dealers are offering the vehicle, adding side air bags is about $500.00 and vice versa. For the extra $$$ we are getting ours with both. Hey the interior color, was it the dark charcoal? The security system should have been a V5 was the one you tested a VS, was that something offered in that region? Man that pricing is really good, was it because they were trying to move them (alot in stock)? I am suprised, the CD pricing was that what they were selling for or was that the invoice pricing of $24,074 on the CD site? Tell us, honestly would you recommend now the Camry SE V6 over the Accord EX V6? :-)
Unfortuantely, the super nice sales guy was about 350lbs, and thats being conservative, so I'm sure that made the car feel a bit slower than it would have been with just me in there... but it still felt very quick. And yes, the Security System is V5, I mis-read the writing. The $24,074 CarsDirect pricing is their actual offer, not the invoice. This SE V6 was the only unsold SE V6 on the lot. It just seemed to be a very up-front dealership- salesdude said theres more interest in the Camry SE V6 as more people hear about its bigger engine. The interior was charcoal. It was a bit dark, and I have no preference for seat heaters, so were I in the market, I think I might look for a beige cloth SE, but who knows... One day....
Here's what I'm wondering- since the Avalon, built in KY will be going to the 3.3L VVTi V6 next year when it is redesigned, I wonder if Toyota will then cease production on the 3.0L VVTi V6, and then all V6 Camrys for the 05 refresh will be the 3.3L 225hp units in the SE?
Any ideas?
~alpha
You know its funny, because we were first looking at the V6 XLE Camry, but the new engine was not being offered in that trim. When I spoke with Toyota of California they stated that the reason why they did not put the 3.3L engine in the XLE was because of the exrta weight and the suspension would not be able to take it. Unless they beef up the suspensions of their vehicles the 3.3L may not be able to be placed in them. The interior of the vehicle you test drove was it close to black or black in color itself? Our vehicle is suppose to becoming with the Dark Chorcoal interior (Code: LB14), I hope its close to black. From my understanding the Avalon is suppose to look close to the LS430 from LEXUS. Man if we could have waited we would have purchased that vehicle, it has a nicer interior than the Camry's. But don,t get me wrong the SE's sporty trim looks cool, my wife like the "elegant wood look".
The "elegant wood" is none the less "elegant fake wood", and that line the Toyota of California people gave you is pure BS, because there were no modifications to the suspension of the ES330, at least not that were made public, in Lexus Press Release of changes to the 2004 ES330, which pointed out even the minutest detail changes, such as an increase in seat mounted side airbag coverage area (a benefit shared with the Camry, but never stated in a PR). Since the ES330 shares it standard suspension with the Camry, I dont believe the Toy of Cali people. If I am wrong, and there were mods to the ES, it would have been mentioned somewhere, somehow, in someway.. but that doesnt seem to be the case.
The interior of the SE I drove was indeed named Charcoal, but it is Black for all intents and purposes.
~alpha
Thanks to all in advance.
RP Golfer
What do you mean "The interior of the SE I drove was indeed named Charcoal, but it is Black for all intents and purposes". Was it a black interior or just a dark gray??? Now I am confused. Also, those folks in Toyota of Calif. are confusing themselves. If you got an answer from one rep, then later called back and spoke to another rep you would fet a conflicting answer. To me they are like most cars sales people, they are not educated on the product they are selling. Same goes for alot of auto manufacturers. Tell me the suspension on the ES330, is it the same as the XLE's or the SE's? Because if the struts/suspension are the same part numbers then yes the Toyota of Calif. are incorrect. Then where did suspension for the SE come about, no other Toyota or Lexus vehicle has this suspension?
~alpha
Cool, I am glad to hear the interior is black, its going to look cool with the Catalina Blue Met. exterior. The dealership didn't have an SE with the color we choosed to have built, we picked it from the 04 Camry book. This may sound weird, but I am going to try to understand why Toyota only put this engine in the SE. The new 04 Solara has this, probably because its newly redisgned subframe. The Avalon will have this new engine when it is redisgned next year. I am going to go out on a limb, but I am going to assume that the LE and XLE's struts/suspension may have to be re-inforced or the suspension altered to accomadate the 3.3L. I don't know if you remember the old Camry's before the 96-92 (?) shape. I knew of many people that had V6 engines in this "Boxy Shaped Model" that had suspension problem, (i.e control arm bushions wearing out prematuraly, etc.) Then the folks that had the 4's in the vehicle did not have this problem. The folk's that had the V6's were told that the suspension could not take the weight of the V6's (they goofed up). I am assuming that this is what Toyota is trying to prevent from happening again. We will all have to wait to see what happens in the 05 models, (I think by then we will be hearing of a Hybrid Camry for 05), but if the weight is an issue I don't see them placing the engine in the LE or XLE. What you think about by analitic approach?
The 3.3 should weigh within a few pounds of the 3.0. Toyota probably put the 3.3 in the SE, ES330, RX330, and Sienna to fit buyer demands, and probably kept the 3.0 in the LE and XLE due to production capacity constraints.
The $26,312 price of the SE V6 equipped as I like gives it a big edge over more expensive cars, but if I can not fit the things I need to carry in the trunk, I will buy a Chrysler Pacifica or Dodge Magnum. Too bad Toyota dropped the Camry wagon in an effort to force people into the Highlander, Sienna, or RX330.
fsmmcsi- You are aware that the SE V6 now has a 225hp V6, correct? I find it difficult to believe that an 4cyl SE 5sp that Car and Driver clocked at 8.3 to 60 feels the same as the SE V6 automatic, which was clocked (Solara) at 6.9 seconds to 60. Additionally, the LE/XLE use a 210 hp engine.
~alpha
I agree with your comments. Maybe Toyota felt that if people got the new 3.3L in the XLE why would they purchase an ES330, the XLE is a closer match than the SE, even with all the options an accessories I attempted to equip my vehicle with. It's probably all marketing. Also, fsmmcsi comments on the SE 4 cycl. We test drove it and it is no where close to the acceleration and feel of the new V6 engine. Fsmmcsi are you sure you comparing with the new engine or the old 3.0L?
I have not yet taken delievery of my vehicle, should be arriving mid December. From what I have been reading it should be doing 0-60 in 7 sec and under. From my experience with Toyota engines the 0-60, handling, MPG, braking, etc. improves as the mileage on the vehicle increase. The vehicle is truly broken in at around 10,000 miles, I noticed this also on our RX300. Also, in the states I am not too sure that the ES330 is built in Kentucky as the Camry, I was under the impression that they came straight from Japan. Alpha01, any clues as to where they are being built?
IMHO the camry is the better choice, hands down. I deal alot with computer hardware and there is a perfect analogy to this in computer hardware.
Lets take videocards for example. There are three levels of videocards, the low end crap, the high end bleeding edge technology (expensive) and then there is the "sweet" spot. The sweet spot represents where you have all of the key features at the lowest price. Yeah you can pay twice as much for a high end videocard, but you are just getting a few extra tweaks and faster framerates that the human eye cannot detect, only a benchmark program can tell the difference.
IMHO the camry xle or se is the sweet spot in the family sedan market, you get gobs of std features, some associated with luxury cars, safety, quality, etc, yet paying thousands less than the high end of the market (ie ES330). I agree the es330 is a nicer car, but there is nothing that it has that the camry does not have that justifies the extra dough. You can pay the thousands more, but you have a diminishing return on your investment.
Dudes I would never say that the ES330 and Camry are "equal" vehicles. What I am saying is that for the significant savings of $$$ you can get a similar or very close vehicle to the ES330. Both vehicles have the same engine same trany and subframe. The destinictive differences are the bells and whistels. If you are willing to give up a few of the features that are in the ES330 in oreder to save $$$ in the SE V6 Camry then its worth it to purchase the Camry. When we looked at both vehicles and test drove them both, we came to the following conclusions. While the ES330 is a much elegant vehicle, the Camry was offering the same dependability and quality for less. Any vehicle you buy, as soon a you drive it off the lot you will loose thousands. Would I rather loose more or less. We choosed to loose less and ordered the Camry. We do not live in our vehicles, it takes us from point A to B and that is what a vehicle does, but if some individuals want to "travel or feel that they are traveling in style", then hey spend the extra $$$, but we did not feel it was necessary to do so, but that's our opinion. We felt this way when we leased our RX300 and man for a 40,000.00 vehicle (a Toyota), it was not worth it and we were very pleased to return it after the lease was up. But hey thats our opinion.
How do I refill the differential fluid into upper refill hole/port after I drain it from the lower hole/port? Do I need a special tool or hose/filler? I'll perform this in my driveway with the car on jack stands.
P.S. I've already replaced the fluid and gasket in the transaxle.
As someone else mentioned, the four has to work too hard, especially in the heavier cars loaded with options, so it will wear out sooner.
I also agree with the "sweet spot" analysis. The Camry is certainly an excellent value, and the Lexus buyer is mainly paying for the different name plates on the car. The money Toyota makes on Lexus ES330 sales helps them to justify a better basic platform for the Camry and ES330.
Last Wednesday I had the occasion to test drive the 04 Camry SE sedan with the new 3.3 V6. I must tell you that to me it was neither fish nor foul. That is, the ride was harsh, the handling was not exceptional, and without a direct comparison to last year's SE V6, it was not too easy to tell any power difference. Thus, I plan to test the Solara SE V6 next. Hopefully, that will have a better ride.
My present car is a 99 Camry LE sedan - in comparison to the new SE V6, the 99 rides much smoother. That is hardly a selling point for the new model. It is unfortunate that the XLE V6 does not have the new engine. I would agree with the earlier post which surmised that it was a strategic move to avoid too many defections from the Lexus ES300.
profks- if you have a 99LE V6 (and certainly if you have a 4), and if you find the SE suspension not to your liking, you should have no issue with the XLE/LE V6 powertrain, as it is smoother, even more refined than it was back then. It offers similar if not better acceleration as well, thanks to its extra gear and added hp and torque. Why not look at those models?
~alpha
When I drained the ATF fluid and removed the pan did the fluid in the differential also drain simultaneously?
When I removed the ATF pan drain bolt should I also have removed the lower drain bolt on the diff housing or would that have been redundant?
Lastly when I re-filled the ATF fluid through the dipstick under the hood does this fill the diff? Does the ATF dipstick reading also account for the level of fluid in the diff housing?
Apologies for all the queries.
Best, John
I may not have used the best word to describe the experience. It was a choppy ride, not one I would associate with a Camry. I did own an 03 Accord EX-V6 for several months. That car had a well controlled and much more compliant ride than did this SE V6. Also, right now an astute buyer can purchase the Honda for $23,500-$23,800. Given the Honda's superior resale, it would be a no-brainer if I were in the market for a new car. Please understand, this is coming from someone who has owned Toyotas since 1977, and Camrys since 1985.
I agree with you that the XLE V6 would probably have a much better ride. I should note, however, I only test drove the SE for curiosity sake - my 99 Camry has only 45K miles and is all the vehicle I need at this time. When Toyota puts the hybrid system into a Sienna my interest will be peaked.
As to the Camry SE V6 versus the Accord. I no longer have a horse in that race so I think that I can speak without bias - the Accord had a much better ride, a higher quality feel to the dash controls and it was a much better deal. Also, the resale value is better. One need only check the various used vehicle guides to confirm this assertion. Again, this is from a Camry owner, not a spy from Honda.
Thanks Cliffy.
As always, your help is appreciated. Really, I just wanted to know what the out-the-door price was with the options I listed. That's all that really matters when you get down to it.
The VDA, I think you state that is pretty common to include. Thanks again.
The dealer told me no recall on this is expected because it is not a safety concern. However, the solution for the TSB should eventually surface. This does not occur on the 02 or 03 SEs. Not sure if this problem is evident on the LEs and XLEs.
Have any of the 04 SE owners heard of this and have info on when this issue will be resolved?
Personally, if the leak is small and tolerable let it go until you need a new timing belt and everything done then. Strange that all ofyour seals and gaskets are going at once. Definitely get a second opinion as well.
i wasn't paying much attention, but i think one remote didn't work first, then couple days later, i tried another remote, and it worked, then couple more days later, then all dead.
i've also notice the Alarm security LED indicator not flashing either after i manually press Lock on the driver side door and waited more then a few minutes.
anyone know what is wrong with it, and how to reprogram the remote again, or i have to bring it to the dealer.
...and if someone can prove the tires are soley responsible for these issue then shame on Toyota for putting them on the car....AND SEND ME THE BRAND TO BUY!
I mentioned buying snow tires and chains. I live in Eastern Pa, the tires dealers laughed...guess they have not seen such poor traction in this area since they stopped selling rear wheel drive cars.
Anyone in my area have similar problems....Solutions?
I definitely think a better set of tires will solve the conditions you describe.
--18fan
Andrelaplume- if you are really concerned, no doubt a set of snow tires might be your best bet for the winter. As far as all-seasons, I like the Pirellis on our Camry, but in either case, you'd do best to check out Consumer Reports.
~alpha
Thanks,
Bill