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PCs yes. But that's a dying category; mature anyway. No loose wires in tablets or smartphones and few if any in most laptops.
Automobiles seem complex until you break them down into their various systems. They still got four wheels and running boards, to quote the old Campfire song. Brake system, HVAC, engine, drivetrain, lights and accessories. Fuel system, exhaust and sensors. New safety gizmos (back to the brakes). Peel back the sheetmetal and it's really not rocket science. Make the components easier to swap out and you can just plug and play anything from the alternator to the transmission and send the core back to a rebuild facility where the great techs can refurb them to factory spec. We're already there with BCMs, starters, alternators, engine cores, yada yada.
You're not getting the point about rewiring circuits. That technology is already here and the price will fall like all other printed circuits have, so self-repairing computer nodes will be the norm. We're talking a few traces, not six pounds of insulated copper wiring.
Something has to give - otherwise the standard in twenty years will be ZipCars and public transportation. Few things are as expensive as owning a depreciating asset like a car and Gen Y may have figured that out early. If you are making $25k a year, a $1,400 repair bill (with no guarantee that something different isn't going to break next month) means that a big part of your working life is spent on transportation.
Do you really think there is any chance of ending up anywhere else, unless the "consumers" change their habits first?
Few things are as expensive as owning a depreciating asset like a car and Gen Y may have figured that out early. If you are making $25k a year, a $1,400 repair bill (with no guarantee that something different isn't going to break next month) means that a big part of your working life is spent on transportation.
Compare that to dumping the car for yet another $400 a month payment for the next five years, and then a $450 a month for the next five years after that, etc...
The alternative is and has always been competent repair, and that needs to be recognized by the consumers. Every other responses here seems to still go towards trying to discourage long term ownership and service and repair. The depreciation values of a given vehicle is controlled by those who sell vehicles to make their fortunes. They don't create an accurate picture for the average vehicle owner and haven't for decades. Properly repaired my cusrtomers Nissan will do EVERYTHING that any brand new car will do, except come with a guarantee of almost five more years of payments.
Consumers are changing their habits and this may be the last "golden age" of new car sales. The kids aren't buying. I doubt that repair costs figure into their decision but us old guys don't like paying the freight that the local garage charges either.
I'd sure be upset if I had to remove a fender skirt and some other junk just to replace a headlight bulb, but apparently there are some cars like that out there. Or my friend's Concorde with the battery buried in the fender. What are these engineers thinking when they design stuff like that, knowing that replacement will be required in a year or three?
The black tape, however, seems quite reliable. :P
Besides, there will always be more pressing needs--a MINI breaks something every few months, and it's always punishingly expensive to fix.
The last fun event was a "simple" door lock actuator---too bad they used fasteners made in Mongolia for .02 cents apiece, as well as burying the actuator where human hands dare not tread.
I did it but I wish I hadn't.
Between access issues and multiplexing, newer cars are built in defiance of mechanics, not to help them.
On the GMC Acadia, booktime to replace the front headlight is .8 hours. Imagine that to replace a $15 part. People have been complaining that dealers charge up to $300 labor to replace the headlight. Course GM revised the original procedure which required tire removal as well as the front wheelhouse front liner. Currently only the front wheelhouse front liner removal is required for bulb replacement.
From there we have the motorized aiming assemblies. There are cars that we cannot check and adjust the headlights on "correctly" because it requires bi-directional commands from the factory scan tool to put them in the "home" position for aiming, and then there is another function to re-train the headlight aiming controller.
The engineers often have claimed that they try and consider servicing issues during design but you can't prove that for the most part by what I've seen. The moment I find the next new fastener that means I'll be purchasing yet another whole set of sockets and possibly wrenches I have all the proof I need about how much they think of technicians.
You mean you just swap the parts out instead of doing a proper diagnosis? Gasp!
In another twenty years, this place will start looking like Cuba with a bunch of 40 year old cars limping around because they'll be all we can afford to patch up and keep rolling.
Now that you mention it I always wanted one of these:
That one made me smile. I count 30 Honda dealers alone in MA. I don't think Honda is going to shutter the doors on them.
It'll never happen.
http://www.r2rc.eu/
Just remember what they always said here, its not about parts.
Effective access to technical information, multi-brand diagnostic tools and test equipment, spare parts and training is crucial for the independent automotive aftermarket to provide 260 million motorists in the EU with the quality services and parts they deserve for the aftermarket care of their vehicles.
They have a Facebook page too.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/right-to-repair-campaign-r2rc-eu/thank-you-37000-- voices-in-favour-of-sector-specific-rules-for-the-aftermarket/430201880228
"There is good news for motorists who have been turned away from local independent repair shops with an explanation that only the automaker’s dealership can correct a particular problem.
Almost every automaker has agreed to start making available to mechanics nearly everything — security systems being a major exception — offered to their own franchised dealerships.
[A]utomakers also agreed that, starting with 2018 models, they would standardize diagnostic tools to work on all vehicles, not just those from one maker.
Carmakers to Share Repair Data (NY Times)
By restricting independent mechanics from accessing the latest safety and environmental information on new model vehicles, McKellar said the new FCAI code effectively forced consumers to get their cars serviced at new car dealerships."
Feud rages over car warranty repairs (smh.com.au)
(get better Doc!)
Wife had a recent event with a code on our new Versa Note. She came in saying she had filled up and then the "loose gas cap light" came on. I'm thinking check engine light, but I go out, check that the gas cap is now tight and start the car, and sure enough, the display in the center of the dash says "Loose Gas Cap". A quick check of the manual told me to hold in the button that switches the display to different modes to reset the light.
Seems like an improvement over using an OBD reader to get the the cryptic P0455
The thought of a non transferable license makes no sense at all!!
I'm seeing $200 laptops on sale for Black Friday for $99. A Versa? - $12,600.
When I look at $50k+ SUV and pickup prices, I have to shake my head, but that's probably not much in 1950 dollars. And that means the $13,000 subcompacts and $99 lease deals are really dirt cheap now. Wouldn't pay to put a $6k crate engine in one of those and a $1k brake job would make you think about just trading it in.
With today's systems capable of detecting any leak at all (PZEV , partial zero emissions ) you can't rely on just looking for a failed or damaged vacuum hose or a component issue. A .020 leak is the size of a straight pin, and a .010 leak is in fact only about 1/4 of that. By pumping smoke into a closed system the pressure rise can be measured and the bleed off rate measured. If the leak is present, the smoke will usually be visible in the area of the leak. BTW, my favorite tool to locate the smoke is a laser pointer. Anywhere that the laser shimmers, smoke is present.
So, you were to sell one of those pieces of shop equipment to another shop how would the company find out? This doesn't even sound legal!
Heck, the gas station where I worked as a kid didn't even have a dwell meter or a timing light! We set point gaps with a feeler gauge and set the timing by ear!
No wonder shops charge the labor rates they do!
I know a lot of the older guys that are still in the business are strongly recommending the young guys NOT to get in the business. I have to wonder how the Vo-tech schools are doing.
Heck just search you-tube watch some of the recent pushes to try and do more for making any of the trades more attractive and see if they mention auto repair.
GM customer service people respond to this forum when consumers complain because their car hasn't been diagnosed and repaired correctly. I'll challenge anybody who reads this to try and do diagnostics ACCURATELY for the .3hr that their dealer techs get paid. (GM isn't alone in this kind of abuse of the tradesmen)
Techs on average make 20% of the door rate. At a door rate of $200/hr that could be pretty respectable wage in some areas of the country, and yet insufficient to qualify for a mortgage in others.
I understand it's becoming harder and harder to be able to "flat rate" jobs.
Years ago when the 3.8 Taurus were breaking front motor mounts I believe the books called for something like five hours to change one.
Well, the guys found out how to use a combination of sockets and extensions and a guy who was good could change one in a half hour.
Well, Ford found out and slashed the warranty time.
You should check out the fixed operations forum in Linked In. The same topics replay over and over again from upselling services VIA MPI's;
To whether the techs should be paid to do the MPI's or not even though they are required;
To how to deal with techs that over sell when they do the MPI's that they force the techs to do, To how do they get techs to do the MPI's when they refuse to,,,,,,
To why can't they find qualified technicians... Or what methods does someone use to try and attract the best techs out of another shop. Then of course they go back to the start of the list.
Meanwhile the labor times have just dropped and dropped while the door rates have climbed, and tech wages per flat rate hour have stayed the same, since the 90's. The bureau of labor statistics shows the mean wage at $36,000 for automotive technicians.
I know that a lot of the veterans in the business will try their best to talk young guys out of becoming auto technicians.
Then the staggering cost of the tools they have to buy?
Same difference in other words!
The future looks scary as the veterans are retiring or simply finding something else to do.
It take a toll on the body. Very rare to find a guy 50 or older wrenching on a car.
BMW settles FTC charges over Mini warranty rules (Detroit News)
Haven't heard squat from the FTC regarding Dexos.
BTW, speaking of those articles which are still on the website. Are they ever going to re-addressed so that they inform the vehicle owners correctly instead of misleading them? Case in point is this quote from the linked webpage.
" Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications." http://www.amsoil.lube-direct.com/2011/04/dexos-1-amsoil-has-it/
Informing the consumer correctly would have that statement explained for what it really means.
I think it's more fair to say that GM owns the brand and licenses it out. Here's the dexos licensing site and if you read the fine print at the bottom it says:
"dexos®, dexos1®, dexos2™ and the associated brand logos are registered trademarks owned by General Motors, LLC. All rights reserved"
Excellent comment about informing the consumer - people have been looking for the API starburst for years and most people try to remember if they should be using 5w30 instead of 10W30 that was so ubiquitous for lots of years. All GM has done is thrown another complicating wrinkle in the process that costs everyone more money.
To add insult to injury (due to all those mechanical failures posts?), GM has lowered their powertrain warranty from 5/100 to 5/60.
What purpose is served by attempting to muddy the waters by suggesting that "dexos" is anything other than exactly what it is, which is a specification?
Why haven't the writers of these articles revisited the following topics and corrected the mistakes in them so as to correctly advise the consumers?
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/do-i-have-to-use-the-manufacturers-oil.html
One of the main points of that article was Valvoline's Tom Smiths quote. Shouldn't the readers be informed about Valvoline changing their position now that Valvoline does provide licensed dexos products? Why have they changed their position on the subject? Why is Amsoil not getting their product approved like all of the rest of these major manufacturershttp://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos1-brands and exactly what does the quote above really mean? Is having sulfated ash in the oil exceeding the dexos specification a good thing or a bad thing? Is there a reason that someone doesn't want the consumers to be aware of all of this?
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html
My guess is that Valvoline changed their position for marketing reasons. Some fleets probably required the "official" spec for warranty reasons so it made more economic sense for Valvoline to pay off GM so they could sell oil with the dexos brand on the label.
You keep making my point - consumers don't want to be aware of all this. We just want to go to NAPA or WallyWorld and buy a jug of oil off the shelf. There's probably a lot of dealers out there using bulk oil barrels hanging from the rafters too. But heaven forbid I change my own oil or have my indy guy do it. One engine problem and my warranty claim is denied because I didn't save the receipts, the jugs and an oil sample, and an oil analysis, plus I have to take a video of the drain and fill.
Now that hindsight is getting to be 20/20 everyone should recognize that the linked articles were inaccurate. Aren't the consumers needs supposed to come first? How can those continue to stand and risk yet someone else being mislead by them? Besides, when it comes it making someone else's point, the misrepresentation that you intentionally continue to make between what is a brand and what is a specification isn't funny and could lead to someone making a mistake that could hurt them financially. The manufacturers shouldn't be responsible if someone doesn't service the vehicle correctly and fails to use products that actually meet the specs. Are you willing to make it right for them should their warranty be denied if what you continue to write contributes to them making the wrong choice?
But I'll only use electricity from small solar that doesn't fry birds.
http://www.nastf.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
Without this access a shop that has already made significant investments in tools, training for their techs and software cannot complete repairs that might include the replacement of a PCM, a body computer on some models without having to sublet that portion of the repair to the dealer.
ttp://www.quora.com/If-all-cars-in-the-US-suddenly-become-electric-how-much-more-electricity-do-we-need-to-produce-in-percentage
and this one
http://www.evelectricity.com/evcosts/
to even get close to having an idea of what it would cost today and you really don't know if those prices would go up or down. But let's play with todays numbers and see what it might look like. You would need at the minimum a 3Kw system. Those are projected to cost between $25-$100 dollars per month. Now of course let's use the higher number beause $100 a month lease doesn't sound bad at all. They project yearly increases up to 2.9% per year for 20 to 30 years. So based on two guesses the worst case scenario means you would pay $1200 the first year and by the 30 year mark you would then be paying $2829 which works out to about $235 a month for something you still don't own. Total approx. $57,768 which from my POV has too many variables in play to have any real meaning, other than to compare it to the increased cost of an approved engine oil over a non-approved one which in the case of Mobil1 5W30 dexos is actually about half the price of Amsoil which isn't even approved.
Remember that is just for the solar array. That doesn't include costs of maintenance on it, the charging station, nor the cost of the EV cars and any repairs of the EV cars that you own during that time. You don't have to wish for this, you can have it all right now because it IS available. Just don't pretend you will save any money with the idea. By the time you add in the rest of the numbers you're going to easily blow through some $250K-$400K over the next 30 years.