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Yeah, I know, a little late to the party...
Bob
Hyundai indeed, just launching now, right? The Santa Fe V6 is hugely improved.
I am waiting to see a broad application for the Ford DIs e.g. Fusion, and the Malibu for GM. Although I think the new Regal will get a DI I4. The DI in the Equinox/Terrain is impressive for FE.
Santa Fe is old but it did get the new engines.
Maybe it got an improved engine, but not Hyundai's best.
Subaru is VERY, VERY, VERY SLOW in introducing certain novelties, it takes them two or even three product cycles to actually get something into their mainstream trims, even as an option. They twice already invented market segments (crossover, fast but moderately priced compact) and then they conceded them to the competition. They held and even improved their sales on getting better product and not relying on "marginal" customer (one that is sensitive to economy). It is probably inevitable to lose market share (percentage wise, not in total numbers) to bigger players, as total number of sold vehicles increases, but they cannot sit there all happy because they were there first, or because they survived the worst. It is their chance to hold some of that percentage gain, but they have to keep improving the product.
Bottom line: product, product, product, improvement, improvement, improvement.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I appreciate Soob as much as the next guy and more than most, but I can't see how it can claim the title of market segment inventor. RAV4 and CRV beat the Forester to market by 2 years (I don't count the original Outback, as it was mostly a very clever marketing exercise using a mostly unmodified Legacy wagon). And as for sport compacts? Heck the WRX wasn't offered here for how long? We had Honda's SIs, Nissan SERs, and Ford SVTs here way before then, heck we had AWD turbo Celicas in 1990 and V-6 GTIs for how many years before the 2002 WRX debut?!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think so....
Looking at the specs, it ranks:
#1 power-to-weight
#2 in torque
#1 in ground clearance
#1 in turning circle
lightest weight
best weight distribution
most towing
best passing (tie)
best brakes
most grip (keep in mind the ground clearance)
best overall performance (figure 8)
best fuel economy
And it cost $4-9 grand less than the others, and they put it in last?
Just how high on their priority list is the number of gear ratios? Enough to ignore all the results?
They need the CVT in there yesterday, but I think MT got a bit carried away criticizing the slushbox.
I would say thogh - WRX was the first moderately priced fast AWD compact on the market (I know small segment). It did make a splash when it came. In 2002 there was nothing like it and it did bring a wave of new quick compacts afterwards. (BTW, I believe SVT Focus was brought in '04 or so). However, by 2006-7 it became "old" and the new '08 WRX was trully pathetic. It's better now, but the world is moving fast, even at time of this crisis (or perhaps because of it).
Point stays - Subaru brings fresh and new stuff in and then they do nothing for years and let watch the competition catching up ans passing them - mostly on convenience content and "cool factor".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Tough call, but I think the 96 RAV4 really opened the segment, then came the 97 CR-V and then the 98 Forester.
The Outback didn't truly become a crossover until 2010.
Subaru withheld the WRX for a long time, so even though it may not have had any peers in 2002, it was still long overdue. I was active in the Subaru clubs in 1998-2002 or so, and then popularity exploded. I had kids so I stopped going, but they're as popular as ever.
***
The key for SoA is DON'T GET COMPLACENT!
Keep improving the cars steadily, else 2009 (perhaps 2010) will be the sales peak and they won't grow beyond that.
The Outback didn't truly become a crossover until 2010.
Subaru withheld the WRX for a long time, so even though it may not have had any peers in 2002, it was still long overdue. I was active in the Subaru clubs in 1998-2002 or so, and then popularity exploded
Couldn't (and didn't) have said it better myself regarding the Outback. And why did they wait so long to bring the WRX here? Think of the money they could have made, but they never capitalize on opportunities....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Club members had 2.5RS models but many of them put aftermarket turbos themselves rather than wait.
As Juice said already - no complacency allowed. And stop the accountants from running the model trims. Things like no fog lights in standard STI are trully pathetic.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
As for WRX, if VW can afford to sell GTIs for $25 grand and Subaru can't afford to do the same with WRXs, then it has a global problem. But I do get that they have to cut corners for NA just like VW does.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also make more options available a-la-carte.
I love the STI, but its existence has limited what the WRX can be. That's not the case for the Mazdaspeed3 or the GTI, so it's a handicap Subaru should do away with.
I heartily agree that it is WAY past time for all Subaru manuals to have 6 speeds, but especially the WRX.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I see why it exists - it's a great halo car.
Just don't limit what the WRX can be.
Manufacturer Spotlight: Subaru Thriving Thanks to Brand Consistency (AutoObserver)
"This could be the beginning of Subaru Manifest Destiny, as the maker of hardy all-wheel-drive cars tries to move beyond its heartland in the great, icy north to places where frost is seen mainly in the freezer."
Snowbirds Dress Up for a Climate Change (New York Times)
I disagree with this part:
The Outback’s probable rivals include the Chevy Equinox, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape.
That is the Forester's job. The Outback has the Venza and Crosstour.
Cool to see David Sullivan quoted all the time given I've met him a few times. :shades:
Heck, the Outback will be cross shopped against the Forester.
The Outback is perhaps the *only* car that can do everything passably well, if say a family were forced to have just one car for everything.
It can hold a lot, it's great in bad weather, it's easy to drive, it's good on gas, it has great ground clearance, you can add a hitch or roof pod no problem, it's Japanese so it's reliable, and you'll never have trouble selling it.
Oh, okay, it's not pretty. But it's prettier than a Forester!! :P
Maybe I can interest you in some gold pinstriping too?
I would love to see them release a car-based pick-up, NOT convertible like the Baja was but just with a fixed bed behind the front seats. Make it AWD standard, base it on the Legacy, start it at $20K, I think they would sell a bunch.
And of course I'm looking forward to the sport coupe, but it is still quite a long way out.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Steve -- well MY hood scoop WORKS!
I'll take cute over tarted-up any day.
Oh that's right. I forgot you kludged yours up to hold a bunch of back issues of Road & Track. :shades:
Dunno, my Outback is hands down the most handsome thing in my garage. Although the Quest has its moments in the right light (like at night).
That is all I have to say.
Having said that, all Subarus suffer from a weak and confused grille design, including the Forester and Impreza. Of the two, I find the Forester's grille to be the more attractive, but not by much. For some reason Subaru is really struggling in finding an attractive yet distinctive "corporate face" for their vehicles. The new Legacy and Outback are particularly poor in that regard.
I also never cared for the oval Subaru logo. While I understand the concept, it's just not well designed.
Of all the Asian brands, I find the current Suzuki to be the best looking by far. I'm really impressed by how attractive the new Kizashi is—and Suzuki has by far, the best logo of any Asian brand.
Unlike other Asian brands, Suzuki is proud to promote their Japanese/Asian heritage. Their "S" logo has a very Japanese feel to it, and is a very powerful ID mark for the company. I also see Japanese typography applied to some of their motorcycles (see link). I like that a lot.
http://images.nitrobahn.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/suzuki_- - hayabusa.jpg
Here's the Kizashi link:
http://www.suzukiauto.com/kizashi/?r=top
Bob
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
But I'll go look at a real one in the showroom and let you know what I think.
The designer (Zapatinas) had to compromise on some hard points that were already set, so he didn't get a clean sheet to design it.
It also reminds me of the Maserati Kubang concept:
Any how, Subarus are supposed to be ugly, or at least quirky. This was just too "out there", even for Subaru buyers.
The new Forester is a bit plain, but handsome and unoffensive. You can see why they went with a safe design, after poor Tribeca sales.
I don't like the new Outback as much, but I do like the Legacy sedan, which reminds me of some Infinitis.
I think it was just too small - GM and Ford upsized theirs so Subaru had one of the smallest entries in that segment.
Americans shop for size-per-dollar, and that really hurt the value equation. 3rd row was too small and had no airbags to protect them (that's why I didn't buy it).
Man isn't that the truth.
Had that happen the other day with people looking at New Volvos and New saabs.
Wait the S40 is smaller then the 9-3 so it should be less.
No it doesn't work that way sorry.
Just drive both.
What else hurt the Tribeca?
The original model only have a 3.0l engine, and ran on recommended premium fuel to boot. That's no big deal to a Rover shopper, but to the anti-snob shopper at the Subaru dealer it was. The 08 was restyled and got a 3.6l tuned for regular fuel.
By then it was too late, and it was still smallish and pricey for the class.
Take the T5 platform that the LR3/LR4 ride on give it a sexier bodystyle and charge 20,000 to 30,000 dollars more.
Back when the LR3 and the Sport weren't avalibale with the same interior the LR3 might have cost less to make but you can get a LR4 with about the same interior as the Sport so I bet the Sport actually costs less to make then a fully loaded LR4.