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High End Luxury Cars



  • rl81:

    You can never say never, not even Lexus is perfect, but they are closer to perfect then the Germans,it is therefore much LESS likely that Lexus would make a mistake then the German Manfactures would.
  • rl81rl81 Posts: 53
    If there is a msitake with and Audi it's most likely that it's something with the electronics of the car. I refuse to believe someone in the production of their top-of-the-line would not make sure everything is perfect.

    And besides, I have not ever heard that an A8 fell apart in an accident due to a production error, have you? That would be a good case for a law suit...
  • rl81rl81 Posts: 53
    A couple of pictures of the Maserati Quattroporte:

    I think it should be included in this 'club'

    Simply a beautiful, greatly engineered car. With the engine out of the Ferrari Modena, F1 gearbox, the rear entertainment system seems pretty cool too!
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    I agree with rl81. It's unlikely Audi would produce a car with a glaring defect that would result in fatalities. German cars are known for their solid build. There is no doubt that they are safe in accidents. That's not to say a LS isn't just as safe. I took a 30 MPH impact on the left front quarter panel..The car barely moved and all I heard was a faint "Thump" It did have over $6500 in damages though..(Alot of this was Lexus labor in repairing the mechanical damage)

    I think just the sheer size and weight of these cars means that we'd all fare well in an accident regardless of the make we're driving..Being High End Lux marques, all of these cars are going to have the latest and greatest safety features.

    Which brings up an interesting point..Has anyone been in accident with their high end car? How well did it hold up?

  • jvcnjvcn Posts: 50
    Now for something rather different:

    I've watched the arguing over which car is better, and it's clear the factions will never converge.

    But I've always wondered: Why do none of the European luxury cars go to a real audiophile company to design a stereo like the Mark Levinson in the LS?

    In the view of this audiophile, only the ML system for the LS430 (other ML/Lexus combos are clearly worse) counts as audiophile of any stock system in any car I've sat in or heard of.

    To imagine that Bose or Alpine would care about sound like ML is as unimaginable as thinking that
    Bose could design a home CD player that would match a Mark Levinson.

    Perhaps some of this is taste. Car guys tend to like boomy, in-your-face sound. But I would think that SOME of the luxury buyers that the S class or equivalent caters to would appreciate the option of a genuinely high end system that has clean highs, real imaging, and accurate, unexaggerated bass. Even the ML system seems to have a mild suckout that requires a midrange boost.

    There are so many fine, European stereo companies at the high end that it should be easy to get one to design an appropriate system. Perhaps Linn or Naim could be approached?

    People with Goldmund turntables, Naim CD players, and JM Labs Utopias or Quad electrostatics, should have something better to listen to than stereo designed by mass market players?
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    Maybe I'm getting old, but it's really hard for me to distinguish between the stock Pioneer and ML...In my '02 LS the ML wasn't anything special. The '05 ML seems to be better. What music is appropriate to showcase the quality of a stereo? Someone handed me a soundtrack to Once Upon a Time in America and it sounded fantastic on the ML.

    Any Suggestions?
  • this isn't scientific or anything but i like to listen to fusion jazz the first time i try out a new system. on XM it is the channel "water colors" # 71. for my ears it reveals if the system is to my liking.
  • Why would you change the subject...I didn't think we were talking about cars falling apart..

    Did anyone SAY that the A8 fell apart..ANYONE on this board?

    I will say again...The lexus LS is not perfect but it is more perfect then the A8 (at least mechanically) Not to mention it is faster, quicker off the line and probably has more luxury and safety features...and a fully loaded LS costs less...

    That said A-8 is a very attractive machine with an outstanding interior, and the 4 Wheel Drive is a definate plus in Snow country.
  • one thing we will never no is if the A8 can spin it's wheels. the Awd will prevent this. as for the Lexus LS i don't know if it could actually have so much power going to the rear wheels so as to lose traction at start. also keep in mind that the stability programs will also step in and limit wheel spin at launch.

    when it comes to which vehicle is safer in this class of cars it is ridiculous to keep pointing at the Audi as being less safe simply because of its aluminum construction. unless you know something specific to automobile safety as it relates to steel or aluminum construction you are merely stating opinion. tensile strength may seem like an argument but when an automobile is engineered from the ground up the most important aspect is the design of the safety cage...the man made aspect of the equation. also you keep stating accidents with fire. any accident that is that severe would place occupants of either a steel or aluminum vehicle in peril.

    i visited Lexus web site. i was surprised to see that the LS430 did not have rear seat side airbags. also it does not have a suspension that lowers at 70mph.
  • my guess is that it all comes down to costs and the ability of a manufacturer to actually deliver quality sound inside an automobile cabin.
  • part of what makes any vehicle safe is not just the amount of safety features added to the vehicle in case of an accident(air bags) but the safety features that help prevent an accident ie. vehicles stability control systems, anti lock brakes and AWD. AWD offers a much more stable vehicle not just in snowy conditions but also on wet roads. it helps prevent an accident before one even occurs.
  • hi guys,

    here is some information from Audi USA's website. it seems reasonable but i am no

    20+ years of quattro®
    Why quattro all-wheel drive? Simple. Audi's legendary system optimizes traction and lateral grip while minimizing the effects of drive forces on chassis balance. A little physics shows why. There are two forces at work on each tire. Longitudinal force is caused by acceleration or deceleration. Lateral force affects the car during cornering or in crosswinds. The decisive factor is the total force, the sum of both forces at work on each individual tire, because this determines the vehicle 's remaining safety reserves. The total maximum force must always be greater than available traction, the maximum force the wheels can transfer onto the road surface. If it is less, the tires lose contact with the road, and the car goes into a skid.

    When all four wheels are driven, each wheel needs to transfer only 25 percent of the power to the road, instead of 50 percent as in the case of front-or rear-wheel drive. Each wheel can therefore handle greater lateral force before reaching its traction limit. In turn, this makes the car safer and more fun to drive.

    The quattro system found on every new Audi is our fourth generation. Audi not only pioneered all-wheel drive for passenger cars, we keep making it better. And while others are just now discovering the benefits of four driven wheels, competitive systems haven't yet stood the test of time. In the world of all-wheel drive systems, there's quattro. And not quite.
  • jvcnjvcn Posts: 50
    It depends on what you're looking for in a stereo.

    The thing that knocked me out the first time I heard an ML in a 2002 LS430 was that on a well-recorded acoustic jazz CD [Mapleshade recordings are good for this] you got a real sense of imaging and a soundstage when driving down the road. The sound of the horns was accurate and you could hear the bass player plucking the strings. Most car cds have no dynamic range. They can only handle loud and LOUD because the car environment is so noisy. With a Lexus in cruise mode on the freeway, it's possible to get some of the benefits of a well-recorded disc.

    On the Nakamichi system in my LS400, I've almost given up listening to classical because the soft sounds are drowned out and there's no ambience or imaging. Everything sounds flat although pleasant enough.

    The music should not sound like it's all around you. If there's a singer, he/she should come from a fixed location in space, and the accompanists should seem to be floating in their proper places.

    Above all, acoustic instruments should not blend in with electronic instruments.

    Once you get the system right for "simple" music, then any music -- whether orchestral or pop or rock just "locks" into place.

    If you've never heard a high end home stereo, I recommend you do so. That will give you a benchmark for what a good car stereo should aim for.
  • jvcnjvcn Posts: 50
    Yes, but given the price of an S class or 7 series, and the fact that richer Europeans may be more likely to care about classical music and jazz than Americans, I would think that there would be a natural market for a high-end car system in the MBs, BMWs, Audis, or even Volvo for that matter.

    Cause let me tell you, high-end home systems in Europe can be very, very fine.
  • I have a 4wd Suburu and find it makes little difference on wet roads...but living in Seattle we have experience on wet roads...I will choose the LS in the rain just because it is more comfortable...In the rare Seattle snow I would definately take the Suburu.

    I believe all LS all have a stability control systems...MY 01 does..
  • My 01 Ultra has Side curtin airbags in the front and back.

    It has VSC..with Brake Assist and Traction Control.

    The air suspension system can be switched from Soft to Sport... at highway speed the suspension lowers the car automatically for better airodynamics and control...If I drive Aggresively the System automatically Stiffens. THE CAR CAN ALSO BE RAISE (I THINK UP TO 3 INCHES FOR better clearence in Snow or on bumpy roads)

    P.S my 92 Cadillac Allante had an air suspension system that automatically lowered the car at 70..

  • michael,
    i couldn't find that information on the Lexus website. i'll go back and check again. the curtain airbag is different than
    a side air bag. is the air suspension an option or standard?
  • My O1 is an ULTRA..So you should probably ck THE Ultra option.
  • i found it.
    4 different settings.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Interesting article in Business Week. .htm

    AM interesting data point is that, without SUVs, Lexus would rank 5th in sales in the USA. They claimed SUV sales were slowing down, in general, which was news to me.
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