Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

High End Luxury Cars



  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Plenty of people love the 90 LS. Not sure where you want to go with this but classic looks and beautiful design is always in the eye of the beholder. The older cars you love look - in 95% of the times like a square box to me. I always love the excess adjectives used in situations like this. Many means majority or a decent percentage. You are talking at best a tiny handful, not many. Classic is a definition of rarity - not plurality. If Classic represented "many" then the word Classic is in need of a different definition.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It seems some of your fellow Lexus people will accept the truth from you. Interesting.

    Of course I agree with your post, except for one thing. The first generation IS300 didn't fail because it was too sporty, IMO. It failed because it lacked the proper Lexus interior treatment and more importantly Lexus features. They only added certain things down the road to make it more of a "Lexus". Well that and a ridiculously small back seat. The whole look of the car screamed tuner-Toyota, not Lexus. It had no direct ties or any family traits of the other Lexuses on the floor at the time.

    The new IS however is all Lexus, it looks just like a baby GS inside and out (well better looking on the outside to me), and that is how it should be.

    Plus 306hp compare to what 220hp before? That will get anyone's attention.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Plenty of people love the 90 LS. Not sure where you want to go with this but classic looks and beautiful design is always in the eye of the beholder.

    Exactly, former and current Lexus owners only. People that don't even care for Mercedes because of other reasons, still like they looked back then.

    Now about being a classic you're right, very few cars make the grade to be called that, but there surely haven't been any Lexuses so far that will ever come close to being called that. Lexus and "classic" shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

    I liked the original SC coupe, but a "classic" it ain't.

  • Ljifx, let me start by saying that I don't pretend to have the data, but I disagree with you on one point. I think that the MB name has fallen most with the under 45 year old crowd who have turned to Bimmer, Audi, some Porsches, 50K SUVs, etc. for alternatives to what is seen as a stodgy, dodgy MB line. The well fed over 45 types are less performance oriented, less fickle, and more into traditional status symbols such as blue blazers, rep ties and MB cars. If I were running MB it is precisely these people I would try to keep. In military terms (its a German car afterall) I'd keep it a line for the field grades and general officers.

    Does anyone report mean age of car buyers by make and model? (At one time GM had mean income figures for their makes and models and the Chev Suburban buyer had a higher income than even the Caddy buyer. The explanation was that he had lots of toys to tow and dogs, people to transport).
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I don't know if the C-230 was such a mistake - MB has sold a billion of 'em, mostly to younger women who think they're "cute", and they kind of are, like a Baby Benz. Problem is, they're pretty junky. Stuff falls off inside like a Chevy Cavalier, in my experience. Not a good reputation for a "luxury marque", regardless of the price.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm glad you mentioned that. Just a few months back we got a chart on average ages for every luxury car brand, it showed the average Mercedes owner was 58. Now a few months later we get a claim that all of sudden its the under 45 crowd that is doing the buying.

    Mercedes has only lost favor with people who had one that gave them trouble - doesn't matter what age they are. This over 45 theory is nonsense, they're the group with the most money aren't they? If that is the case then Mercedes is stil choice car because the higher you go in price Mercedes sells more cars than any of the other mainstream luxury brands, say in the 60K and up bracket.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well if you're talking about the C230 Coupe, which was really a hatchback, then I'd too say it was a mistake.

    Nothing falls off anymore post 2004 facelift.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think it applies to the LPS segment as a whole. The slogan is definitely intended to stir things up, but they did not say "designed to outperform the 530\545\550."
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "It seems some of your fellow Lexus people will accept the truth from you. Interesting."

    Heh. Maybe its if it comes from one of our own, and not one of the Germans, it sounds more like the honest truth and less like a slam against Lexus.

    When I said the IS300 was too sporty, I meant the whole package, not just stiff handling or a bumpy ride normally associated as being the "downside" of a sporty sports car. Cars like the 3 series and A4 are sporty and luxurious. Neither has a big backseat, so the IS cant be singled out just for that. They also look like cars that an adult could be seen in. The IS300 was like a four door Celica. It probably appealed more to the 25-30 crowd than the 3 or A4, indeed it had the youngest average buyer age of any car in the segment. The problem is 25-30 somethings cant afford a 3 series, A4, or IS300.

    The old car made just 215hp, down from the SC300 and GS300 thanks to a more restrictive exhaust. Combine that with poorly chosen gear ratios, and it was slow. That is one thing they definitely got right this time around.
  • my 2 GS...nice but too bland. sales will be
    close to non existent in 14 months. new IS...nice car. better proportions than the GS. missed the mark a bit without a stick. the new LS. will exceed the current versions sales figures and possibly out sell the new S. not because it is a better vehicle but because of price. all the hype about the future hybrid models....who cares. gas is cheap and plentiful.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah those things too. It just didn't fit in with the rest of the line, but I seem to remember that its backseat was even smaller than Audis or BMWs at the time. When I drove it I was literally sitting behind the a-pillar the car was so cramped.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Well, we all know the M was designed to directly compete against the 5 series, so when their slogan is "designed to outperform," we pretty much know who they are talking about.
    At least Infiniti's slogan is in the ballpark. It would have been foolish for Lexus to have thought up a similar slogan for the 2006 GS in my opinion.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I'll take this as you didn't know what you were talking about when you first posted.

    What a fluff piece!

    Amazing, more of the same irrelevant talk about sales

    I feel sorry for you OAC

    Problem with you is your posting style. Can often be abusive and corrosive. Such verbage has no place in a forum such as this. Please take some time to clean up your words. No need to denigrate anyone just to make a point. Stick to the cars and leave out all the personal stuff.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Does anyone think that maybe Lexus didn't include an off switch for the VDIM in the IS and GS because the cars wouldn't handle that well without the computer assistance? It would be interesting to see some car mag figure out a way to totally disconnect the circuits and then drive the cars hard and report the results.

    On the other hand, maybe it is just another case of the Toyota lawyers having the final say, like with the stupid nag screen on startup and the disconnect of most entry capabilities of the NAV system while moving. Man, I hate those lawyers! :mad:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think rear legroom was somewhere around 30", definitely miniscule for a car that is not a 2+2. The class usually falls between 33-34".
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Stability computers are designed to save your butt from the wall, not get you the fastest lap time. Most of the reviews I've read about the IS have said that the chassis has moves that the computers are not letting it deliver. Something tells me the guys at Lexus PR wouldnt be too happy with an automag hacking into the stability and engine computers.

    You cant single out Toyota for NAV nag screens, everybody has that. At least in my LS and my wife's RX, you can do things like adjust the temperature or radio without hitting "I agree". Some cars wont let you do anything until you agree that you are responsible for your own stupidity.

    The lack of an off switch for VSC\VDIM is annoying though. Lexus used to let you really let loose if you wanted to. I drove an SC400 sideways once with the TRAC button off and the transmission in "PWR". It was fun.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Problem with you is your posting style. Can often be abusive and corrosive. Such verbage has no place in a forum such as this. Please take some time to clean up your words. No need to denigrate anyone just to make a point. Stick to the cars and leave out all the personal stuff.

    I think you should follow your own advice here because telling me I have nothing credible to say because I don't own and/or can't afford any of these cars can be taken as being very "personal" also Oac. That said, me saying I felt sorry for you was too personal, I apologize for that. That statement being a "fluff piece" should have just been called a "spin" like in other times. ;)

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Here is the chart that merc1 referenced: link title

    Not by model, though.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    So how does the Lexus IS perform without VDIM?

    You can all find out with a cheat code!

    Here is a link discussing the cheat code but you can only read the link as html:

    Turn Off VDIM

    If you Think about it cars have computers and computers have always had cheat codes, so anybody can find a cheat code for any car. The following shows you the steps in disabling the traction/skid control systems VDIM on the Lexus IS:

    ”start the car with the parking brake on ….then foot brake twice….(keep the foot brake down)….then parking brake twice (keep it down )and repeat till skid light is on the dash… will reset when you restart the car”
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    Very interesting. Infiniti is right in the group with Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, and Honda. The other lux brands are higher.

    Land Rover is a surprise. Maybe the Freeloader (er...lander) moved them down the chart.

    As to VDIM, I seem to remember one review liking the GS300 more than the 430 because it did not have VDIM at all.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You said, "all the hype about the future hybrid models....who cares. gas is cheap and plentiful."

    Your name suggests that you drive the Denali trim version of the Suburban/Yukon and that you are from Pennsylvania. If this is true, then you are driving a guzzler, and you may not realize that there is a MAJOR trend towards more fuel efficient vehicles, and cleaner emmissions. If that doesn't describe you, however, just continue to check out this information:

    When Toyota (world's largest) announced that EVERY vehicle will be available as hybrid within a ten year period (that's their announced goal), you can bet that the other manufacturer's will be competitive. This is good news because a hybrid vehicle can actually be much FASTER (as well as fuel efficient) than the gas-only counterpart. The reason people have thought of hybrid vehicles as "underpowered" is because they have initially been offered on econoboxes. But that is changing as we speak, with the new Lexus hybrid SUV and sedan, and Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Other more exciting vehicles are in the works from many manufacturers at this very moment. There was a race last month between an electric race car and a Ferrari and Porsche. The electric literally blew the others away. So . . . it's not all about the gas (and it IS a good thing to get rid of the dependance on those crazy "you-know-who's"), it's also about performance. The fuel-cell technology will work its way in eventually.
    Additionally, gas might be cheaper in Pennsylvania, but not everywhere in the country, and it WILL go up big time again. Political events coupled with natural events added to greed always loom on the horizon. Toyota's competition (everyone else) can not sit by and watch them build more powerful cars that also get TWICE the mpg or even better. So, the market will have to follow. And one day, your new Denali (if GM survives that long) might get decent mileage, have even MORE power, and you will still get to keep all that incredible room for eight inside that vehicle. It's a "win-win" situation . . . even for you.
    Have F-U-N !!!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I kept buying through 00=02 - never sold anything (couldn't get anything for it), bought my LS430 in 02!

    What's an E60? Excuse my ignorance... Is that a 5-er?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    This isn't the hybrid forum, I noted, but I'm not yet sold on the hybrid, mostly because of the initial cost increase over the standard model. You'd have to drive 130,000 to 200,000 miles to recoup your added cost for the hybrid, at $5 a gallon, depending on the mileage of the car as a variable. Faster? Hadn't noticed. Extra weight from batteries probably counteracts that. Battery packs need replacement in a few years, as performance diminishes, more $$$. If you wreck one, good luck surviving the short circuits, and better not hit one either! Fire Departments don't want to cut you out - can electrocute them too.

    Still, with all those drawbacks -if my next LS460 was a hybrid, for the same money as the regular one, I'd buy one. But not for $10,000 more.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Agreed, not hybrid forum. I was only responding to a post, and didn't bring it up to begin with. Some of your comments are interesting. The idea of being electrocuted is interesting. Better let Toyota know. Yes, hybrid technology is more expensive, but the idea of 10K increase in price is a stretch . . . manufacturer's have indicated the $$ differences to be less and will continue to decrease in $$ as supplies increase and technology continues to improve. "Faster" is a fact already proven. You WILL see more of this come to market. Battery packs do not need replacement in a few years, and have enormous life spans (and huge WARRANTIES) that your vehicle ownership would likely never surpass. And, the gas savings, while not gigantic compared with the premium for the technology, are not nearly as out-of-whack as you indicated. Like it or not, the technology will continue to improve, and the payback will also get better in terms of "overall cost-of ownership", more luxury in future models, more style, better performance, etc.

    Anyway, let's stay open-minded and see what the manufacturers bring to market. Generally, losers will not sell well for long, and improvements will creep their way in. This is a particularly interesting time, historically, for cars, don't you think?

    BTW, I, too, would rather discuss "High-End Luxury Cars".
    Take care,
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yeah, that one merc - and the C-240 Sedan as well. I've had rentals that were a disgrace in the cabin. No complaints mechanically.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    What's an E60? Excuse my ignorance... Is that a 5-er?

    Yes, "E60" is the internal BMW engineering codename for the current body style 5-series. :)
  • hybrids certainly have their place but right now it is still the IC engine. the beauty of oil is that it fluctuates in price. goes up.... goes down and is historically very very affordable.

    as for Toyota and hybrids.....Toyota sells themselves as green while at the same time they are full speed ahead chasing GM and Ford to steal their full size pickup and Suv sales with larger more gas guzzling engines. TMC's actions would make P.T. Barnum proud and envious all at the same time!......ok having said that.....i could care less what's under the hood of my vehicle. it could be a 500 cu IC engine or 50 chimpmunks chasing acorns. as long as it performs....i'm happy ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I agree wholeheartedly. I like a car to have performance, comfort, F-U-N to drive, basically loaded with all the necessary AND unnessary options I can get. AND it has to LOOK good, or I won't buy it. I go through cars like sneakers. It's a shame, but sure is fun.
  • Gee, no wonder Lincoln is in trouble. There won't be many repeat customers if the median age of the buyer is 62+.

    Everything else was what could be expected: expensive European cars have a higher median age and tired, aging US brands have an aging buyer. What was interesting was the relative rankings. Land Rover was quite low, tying with VW for the youngest buyer of any Euopean car line at 38. Bimmer was the youngest buyer by far at 46 years for the median buyer of the big four we wrangle about here (Lexus, MB, Jag, BMW).
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hey, island guy,
    where did you get the latest cool info on the median age of buyers of various cars?
Sign In or Register to comment.