Volvo S60

triumphbobk

I've put almost 2000 miles on my S60R in our first month and love the handling of the stock 18" Pirellis, but I've heard that they have poor traction in snow. I need some advice on other rim/tire combinations. Does anyone have experience with the Pirelli PZero Nero, or the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S?

s6025t

This data is on Forbes.com

Dependability
Problems per 100 vehicles after 3 years
  
Lexus 163
Infiniti 174
Buick 179
Acura 196
Toyota 201
Cadillac 209
Lincoln 212
Honda 218
Mercury 240
Jaguar 247
Saab 255
BMW 262
Nissan 267
Chrysler 295
Ford 295
Audi 318
Mercedes-Benz 318
Volvo 331
Volkswagen 391

s6025t

Hey Kid... I guess a BMW with a fold back top is cool enough, but when I was 16 my VW camper van with a fold out bed was far more accomodating at the drive-in movies.

lev_berkovich

Thanks, Phil.
You have saved me some time to search for the data. I can make my point using your numbers.

Remember, the numbers just give the factual base, it an analysis and a conclusion that transforms the data into the information.

The way I read this list - all modern cars are very dependable and reliable. So, when I make my choice, I am basing it on other parameters - style, features, perceived social status, etc. The reliability and dependability issues become the secondary ones. With good service (and my Volvo dealer provides an excellent service), I can live with one "any" (minor or major) problem per year on average. Such number of problems per year per car does not describe any car on a list as the troublesome. When I consider a number of very sophisticated components and modules in my Volvo (it has 15 on-board computer processors, for starters), the average number of defects looks rather impressive from the first to the last car on that list.

Once again - a car with the average reliability is a very reliable car these days.

dbugbee

When I picked up my S60R last Fall, I noticed the inside door handle on the driver's side was not wrapped in leather. However, the one on the passenger's side was. I thought for maybe some strange reason this was done purposely, but I recently passed by another S60R while taking a walk and remembered to take a look... both handles were wrapped in leather.

Has anyone else had this "omission?" Should I just ask my dealer to replace the handle with one wrapped in leather?

rqc

Sounds like a mistake to me. Both mine are leather.

cerebus

Does anyone know of any changes to the S60 for the 2005 model year? I heard something about the seating, but it wasn't clear.

volvomax

Fromt and rear bumpers and lights were changed.
The door and bumper moldings are now body colored.
Dash revised slightly. Real wood now available with the Premium pkg.
S60 2.4 auto dropped from the lineup.
S60T5 gains 10 hp.

rez

First of all, thank you for this informative forum. I recently bought an S60 2.4 2004, and was glad to learn that these were the last to be made by Volvo, without the Ford influence of a shared assemply line, and also to learn that the 2005 2.4 does not come in auto. I got this one for dear wife, and I drive a 2000 VW Passat, which I love. The passat 1.8 Turbo responds better than the S60 and I love the Triptronic transmission. The S60 2.4 takes longer to reach optimum speed, especially on the highways. Once the optimum speed is reached, however, the car is quite smooth. The S60 has the most comfortable seats I've ever experienced in a car. I have the Premium and Sports packages in the S60, and (I think) I got a marvelous deal. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

guyf

After much consideration, we will be leasing an S60 rather than the S40. Reason is the great deals going on the last 2004 models.

For $10 more per month, this is what we get on the S60 2.5T with premium and sport packages compared to a S40 2.4 with climate and premium package.

Low pressure turbo engine
Automatic transmission
17" wheels
Sun roof
Fog lights
Bi xénon headlamps
Speed sensitive steering
Trip computer
Wood trim
Air outlets to rear passengers in B pillars
Power passenger seat
Auto dimming rear view mirror
Homelink
IAQS
Rear head rest fold down feature

We prefer the outside look of the S40 but prefer the interior of the S60. Since we will be inside the car and not looking at it from outside, the choice was easy.

cmnott

The Ford crack is quite tiresome, really.

The Ford influence has only made Jaguars regain their image as a world class vehicle. Before Ford, it was a joke.

They have made an X-Type that while panned as a Ford Mondeo, outside of the USA is considered a damn good car. So what if it shares a platform with the Mondeo...are we not 99% similar to mice and monkeys?

 
The Ford influence has helped Land Rover survive and thrive and the new products such as the LR3 is said to be almost too good that it may hurt the mighty Range Rover's sales.

And finally, without Ford, the new vehicles by Volvo, such as the XC90 and its V8 model, the new S40 which so far is getting higher acclaim than my S60 T5 will ever get, and all the new funds available for futher research that has now benefiteed the 500 and Freestyle, would not be possible.

Now, you may have owned a Tempo or a Zephyr in the past, which may explain your remark about Ford. But, honestly, it is time to stop the ignorance.

justin

good post

lev_berkovich

Thank you,
And after using 1997 F-150 for the textile equipment manufacturing business for 5 years I would not buy any other truck, if I ever need one again.

rez

I was thinking that an all Swedish original will be better than an American influened Volvo, that's all. I understand that the Ford (as a group) management is far better than the individual automaker's, but can I believe that the the Ford reputation or reliability is as good as Volvo's, Land Rover's, Aston Martin's? If so, I definitely need to change my perception about Ford, and look more into an Explorer than the LR3!!

volvomax

All Swedish originals were 240's.
Booorrrriiiiinnnnggggg.

Ford has given the Swedes a kick in the pants and has given them access to new materials and capabilities.
For a marriage, its working quite well thank you.

justin

i had a lot of fun in my first car, a 1980 DL.

lev_berkovich

Ford's repution in SUV and truck markets speaks for itself. Just take a look who sells more trucks and SUV for over a decade in a row...Ford!

When it comes to reliability, Volvo, with all my love and brand loyalty, is just average in this respect, and does need an outside influence to improve it.

rez

Sorry, but I did not intend to stir up such an argument as a newbie.

I am not sure if you are aware, but the Ford Explorer came out with the worst roll over rating among all SUV's sold in the US this year. The report was published just last month.

guyf

I've owned 5 Volvos (and taking delivery of number 6 next week ) since 1988. Each one proved to be better quality than the previous one.

The Ford influence only made things better as far as I can tell. (But I still would not buy an Explorer)

Guy

avolvofan

But now, Ford has access to the safety patents of Volvo. Maybe there will be a roll-over protection system available on the Explorer....

lev_berkovich

This system is already available on Lincoln SUV's. It's pretty expensive to put it on every SUV made by Ford.

Plus,
Explorer 4WD did not tip during the roll-over test, and therefore, it's 3 stars are due to the fact that it's taller and narrower than some other.

I also remember seen 2 star ratings among SUV. So Explorer can not be the worst one, as it was mentioned.

guyf

It may not be the worst one but it must be very close...

Yeah an old Bronco is probaly worse...

s60 2.4

Its time for my first oil change for my 2004 2.4…..hit 3K on it the other day. Was wondering about putting in synthetic? Honestly want to go a head with it. I am guessing I will experience some improvements? …BTW regarding Ford...got a 1998 Explorer with 155K on its original engine and have had no major problems at all. Still drives like a dream! I am expecting nothing less from my new Volvo…..Many Thanks!!!

rqc

I would say Volvo's influence on Ford has been a good thing. The new Jaguar is benefiting significantly from Volvo's safety testing.

Jaguar had no place to go but up, so I don't know how much anyone should be using Jaguar as a case for dramatic improvement due to superior management. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but almost anything would have been better than what they had.

And the Explorer does still have a rollover issue and the anti-roll stuff from the XC90 is going into next year's Explorer to compensate for it.

All that being said, I have been pleasantly surprised by the percentage of good things Ford (as a group) is doing.

rez

I thought the scheduled maintenance was at every 7500 miles, and not every 3000 miles. At least that is what my owners manual says. Is it still necessary to perform an oil change at 3k? I also have an S60 2.4, so was wondering.

guyf

No, its not necessary.

s6025t

Lev, you are welcome. Of course I agree. The purchase of any auto is mix of objective and subjective criteria. That being said, Volvo had a reputation for superior reliability compared to other auto makers-- real or perceived. Clearly, the report on Forbes does not support such a reputation.

Did you ever see the Toyota commercial where the secretary drives her boss back and fourth to work daily in her Corolla while his Mercedes is in the shop? Funny stuff.

lev_berkovich

Phil,
Volvo has a reputation for longevity, but not the reliability. These are two different parameters, driven by different intrinsic characteristics.

We have a long discussion about it 6 to 9 month ago. You can search for some of my posting on a subject.

It looks like splitting hairs, but truly, the reliability and longevity are different and not always correlated. The perfect example is condom (can I say this word?) - extremely reliable single use disposable item...

pat

Wellll, let's don't go any further with that particular example, it's not necessary.

Thanks.

dang32

While I agree there are some important benefits for Volvo from Ford's ownership (although reliability is not one of them, having had extensive experience with a fleet of cars. The Fords did not hold up as well as the GMs), and I respect the opinion of those who are happy with this relationship, I, however, am not as thrilled by it.

A Hyundai XG350 could take me where I needed to go just as easily as my S60. There are many subjective reasons we buy the cars we do. I know many wealthy people who drive plain, inexpensive cars since they view a car as a tool and can't understand why anyone would pay a lot of money for one.

Call me a snob, but unfortunately, I require a bit of exclusivity in my driving experience. That's why I'm willing to pay a premium, that others would deem ridiculous, in order to drive what I drive. I'm neither right nor wrong, just me.

With this in mind, when I see a new Ford Freestyle, 500, whatever, and know that it shares similar chassis and safety equipment that my car has, it cheapens my driving experience. Again, this doesn't make me right (or commendable)but it's something important to me.

I'm, sure the vast majority of new s40 drivers have no idea they're driving a Ford Focus or Mazda 3. Even those who might know probably don't care because they are driving a fantastic car. I just think it diminishes the subjective value of the car.

Sorry for this "tiresome" "Ford crack" but given this is a public forum, I would hope everyone's opinion is valued here.

lev_berkovich

I hear what you say, but I would like to offer a different perspective to the subject for you, which might make you feel better.

There is a different kind of sharing in automotive world. I personally do not like, when Japanese automakers "luxury up" their commodity cars and present them under different brand name. I believe that the luxury car should be designed from the ground up for this purpose, that is why, despite of previous statement, I like Lexus 400 - 430 LS, which was developed as an upscale car to begin with.

Having this in mind, I would not worry much, if the technology that has been developed by Volvo is finding it's way to the less expensive counterparts, as it become cheaper to produce.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about S40 sharing platform (though very good one) with Ford Focus and Mazda, but
1. The platform is not much more than the body case, while the power train and the suspension appears to be very different on all three cars.
2. It was not design by Ford, but by very respected German designing firm.
3. Volvo does not portrait S40 as much of a luxury car.

Also, please remember, that most if not all the automotive technology was first developed for very expensive exotic cars, and then trickled down to the mass production, when it became more economical to manufacture.

guyf

Lets remember too that the old S40 was sharing platform with a Mitsubishi (can't remember the model name). So the S40 have always been sharing platform with other cars.

poeti18

Hi, does anyone know,what sound system/speakers are used in the S60R (i.e. BOSE, harman/kardon, infinity, etc)? Thanks.

lev_berkovich

If I am not mistaken Volvo uses Alpine systems.

lev_berkovich

Carisma,

Very unexcited car. Volvo did a good job with it. The old S40 was a decent car.
But a new platform is a lot better.

rez

We actually went to the dealer to see the new S40, but my wife did not like the rear end of it! She was always wowed by the S60's rear end and thought it was cut off in the S40. So we test drove the S60 just to see how a Volvo drives. I hammered the price quite a bit and got a GREAT deal, I think. Tell me, is 25.5k including TT&L not a great deal for an S60 2.4 with Premium and Sports pkg? Has anyone beat me?

charlie5

I have seen a dealer ad for a s60 M 2.4, but base with no options for 19995 + TTL. Does yours have leather, etc.??? Sounds like a great deal.

rez

Leather is part of the Premium Package, so I got it. It also has the glass moonroof, Power driver's seat w/ memory, Electronic climate control, Wood trim, Trip computer, 16" URSA alloys, fog lights and automatic transmission.

justin

i saw two 05 S60 Turbo's at the dealer this weekend. one in a ruby red, and the other in a gray/platinum. both gorgeous. and you can tell that it has some changes in the front and rear in my opinion. also, the climate control is no longer gray, it looks black. good thing.

very nice.

rqc

I thought Volvo used Mitsubishi radios, although I had previously unaware they made radios.

volvomax

The only Mitsu parts in a Volvo are the turbochargers.
Alpine makes Volvo's radios.

s60 2.4

I filled up today with 87 not good! as I always use 93. Performance is noticeably down and my engine loves to rattle. Was told this was normal due to the sensors in the engine if I am not mistaken. Next tank back to 93!

rez

I have been feeding both my S60 2.4 and my Passat Shell 93 octane since they were bought. Always smooth as silk! When we moved to California for a year, the highest they sell over there is 91. I did not notice any difference using the 91 on the Passat. Now they have this fancy name "V Power" for the 93 Shell.

jmw

I am interested in buying an S60R but not if side wall problems are an issue. Have you had any problems since changing tires and what specific tire did you buy?

rambo5

"The high strength steel that is responsible for the S40s superior crash performance does not make it into either the Mazda or the Ford. "

Is this true? Does the quality of steel vary from cars that share a platform? In addition if you go upmarket, ex from a Outback to a V70, is there a tangible increase in steel quality and does it translate into improved safety. If anyone has details please enlighten.

guyf

If you look at cutout drawings of the Mazda 3 and the S40 from there respective brochures, you will see that the S40 has much more reinforcement in it's doors than the 3. Just punch "Volvo High strenght steel" in Google and dozen of articles will appear. Heres one about the V50 but it must apply to the S40 as well.
http://www.worldautosteel.org/article2_021104.html

guyf

What side wall problems do you mean?

Volvo sells nice winter tire kits, shod with Gislaved tires. I bought the 16" kit, including the steel wheels, 205-55 16 tires and Volvo hubcaps. This set up works very well in Quebec, which is about as far North East as you can go....

rambo5

"The high strength steel that is responsible for the S40s superior crash performance does not make it into either the Mazda or the Ford. "

Is this true? Does the quality of steel vary from cars that share a platform? In addition if you go upmarket, ex from a Outback to a V70, is there a tangible increase in steel quality and does it translate into improved safety. If anyone has details please enlighten.

s6025t1

Lev, I guess you're right... those who purchase a Volvo for the first time quickly learn Volvo does not have a reputation for superior reliability. However, for the unsuspecting public Volvo does have a reputation for reliability.

Volvo -devotes- searching for solice in "durability" is a fine thing. That being said, who would buy an S60 for durability? Oh yeah... we're buying 45 series soft compound tires that blow out and/or smack the rims on a mild pothole because we're so "durability" conscious? (grin).

I can see the Volvo ad now-- Buy a Volvo... we're rated worst for reliability but we're durable!

lev_berkovich

You might be surprised, but yes, we, the Volvo devotes do buy Volvo for longevity (I do not like world - durability, because there are long lasting very soft objects).
I have an old 740 that successfully lasts for 15 years and 150K miles, and I bought S80 and XC90 with expectations that they will last for 8-10 years and 150 - 200K miles each.

Also, I do not believe that general public has an image of Volvo as of superior reliable car, it's usually attributed to Toyota and Honda.
I have a lot of friends who would ask me "Doesn't Volvo require constant maintenance and adjustments?"

I always thought that Volvo's reputation is safety and longevity.

I strongly believe, that Volvo's reliability is getting better (just as all the cars) and, even it is relatively low (compare to Lexus), is GOOD ENOUGH to ensure happy ownership.

And lastly - you are not so far from truth - Volvo did have a marketing slogan not too long ago emphasizing it's longevity - Volvo for life - implying life long ownership. I like it, so as many-many others.
One way or other - it works - overall, Volvo sales grows rapidly in US and around the world.

But it is still a limited production company - and that is another thing that I like about Volvo. I do not want to drive a commodity car, even knowing, that being produced in huge quantities guaranties a superior reliability.