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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall



  • end of the day, those smart manufacturers competing in the US will realize that they are selling their vehicles to idiots who refuse to acknowledge their own responsibilities and as a result they will have no choice but factoring all the risks into pricing their vehicles higher.

    this is an example where stupidity really pays.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    No one will EVER convince me that in the proscribed conditions someone brought a Camry to a stop in only 190 feet. When the Camry came to a stop was the engine still ROARING at WOT or did it stall somewhere along the way...??

    Come on let's get real here, only 16 foot more than a normal panic stop and with the engine producing 268HP all the while...??

    No way.

    The 900 foot stopping distance for the Mustang also caught me by surprise. At first I wondered if the stopping distance of the Camry and Mustang somehow got transposed. Then it occurred to me that the Mustang's ABS would have been active all the while preventing the front wheels from "slowing" more rapidly than those rears powered all the while with 500HP.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Toyota and other auto manufacturers appear to keep some planned actions out of public view it seems.

    Identification of problem - who knows? Yes, we all just speculate. But Nov 25, 2009 Toyota brake override systems announcement helps address this issue. This came out before pedal fix.

    As I said before, I still think there is a definite plan to all of this.

    Bottom line does seem to be -- UA complaints will improve with brake override. Public happy. Credible past complaints addressed but not for them just in future.. Discourage law suits, false complaints, etc.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Better watch out, those "idiots" are now licensed to fly an LSA class airplane.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Everyone get busy and try to find another test done out there. I now have three tests saved in my computer. Anyone have any saved somewhere???
  • "No one will EVER convince me that in the proscribed conditions someone brought a Camry to a stop in only 190 feet."

    that's why we live in a free society where one can chose to believe in facts or fiction of their own making.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I agree aobut DHTSA insisting upon brake override when DGW implemented. I forget which article I read - but DHTSA (year???)said they did not want to require as standard feature.

    Too bad. Here we are. Might change mind now. Heat is on DHTSA for not addressing UA sooner now.
  • 774774 Posts: 101
    I read those links earlier and have called Toyota Motor Sales reguarding the brake override. The model I have doesnot have a brake override system designed for it yet, at least thats what they said. The best we can do is wait and see what develops.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    those smart manufacturers competing in the US will realize that they are selling their vehicles to idiots who refuse to acknowledge their own responsibilities and as a result they will have no choice but factoring all the risks into pricing their vehicles higher.

    Precisely how I feel about money wasted on ABS, ESC and all the other stability and traction control they have neutered our vehicles with. However if we are forced to have all that crap. We should also be protected from it when it goes astray. A separate brake over-ride circuit as several have suggested would be ideal. Toyota needs to address it and quit screwing around with useless tyraps and shims.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    What model and year is your vehicle?
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Passing along this article. Interesting discussion auto electronics in todays autos. Mechanics generally can not find the real problem, as difficult.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Interesting article. And interesting that Toyota recalled the Prius for a software code problem, suggesting some recognition of the issue.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,985
    And good luck getting your local mechanic to fix it when they won't share the code.

    Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    I had no idea they had evolved into that kind of complexity. No wonder I like cars less and less. This statement blew me away:

    As Much Software Code as an Airbus

    Alfred Katzenbach, the director of information technology management at Daimler, has reportedly said that the radio and navigation system in the current S-class Mercedes-Benz requires over 20 million lines of code alone and that the car contains nearly as many ECUs as the new Airbus A380 (excluding the plane’s in-flight entertainment system). Software in cars is only going to grow in both amount and complexity. Late last year, the business research firm Frost and Sullivan estimated that cars will require 200 million to 300 million lines of software code in the near future.

    A good reason to steer clear of a Hybrid:

    For hybrids, where the amount of software needed for engine control alone is nearly twice as great as that for a standard car, the cost of electronics as a percent of vehicle costs is closer to 45 percent. Within 10 years, some experts predict that the percentages relating to the cost of electronics as a percent of vehicle cost are expected to rise to 50 percent for conventional vehicles and 80 percent for hybrids.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    This guy should have read the posts then he could blame it on the car or maybe he is just to honest. Curious what your thoughts are this ? maybe consipory theory or cover up ;)

    Car dangles from parking garage; driver OK
    2/8/2010, 6:55 p.m. PST
    The Associated Press

    (AP) — MILWAUKIE, Ore. - Clackamas County officials say an 83-year-old man accidentally crashed his car through a concrete wall of a parking garage, leaving the car dangling on the edge of the second floor, then walked back to his room at a Milwaukie retirement community.

    Clackamas Fire District No. 1 firefighters were called to the Willamette View Manor's parking garage shortly after noon Monday. They found the Lexus hanging half out of the parking garage and the driver uninjured in his room.

    The driver was identified as Kenneth Schiedel. He tells The Oregonian, "I feel like the village idiot." Fire District spokesman Steve McAdoo says the man told rescuers he accidentally pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake 0.xml&storylist=orlocal
  • "I had no idea they had evolved into that kind of complexity."

    I said this earlier but would love to repeat it for you: if you want your cars to be as reliable as avionics on a 737, you will end up paying 737 prices for your cars.

    many people didn't understand what I meant but now you have 3rd party confirmation, :)
  • "maybe he is just to honest."

    he is just too atypical of our folks.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,898
    You may well want Toyota to right its ship. But if Toyota has the burden of proving that every accident is not the result of a gremlin in its electronics, its ship is going down.

    Unfortunately for Toyota, I'm afraid that's exactly where they find themselves. As in the case of the alleged floormat recall, the "nickel shim" doesn't instill much confidence that there's a permanent fix for UA with Toyota vehicles. Add to all of that, the recent Lexus/Prius braking issues, and if true, the Corolla steering issues, I'm afraid that Toyota has used up all of their "user error/supplier failure" chips.

    Because of all of that, and the opportunity for totally open and honest disclosure having slipped through their fingers, Toyota's at the point where they are going to have to prove that they aren't at fault. That burden is a lot harder than defending their position. They seem to have already thrown in the towel doing that with the massive recalls.

    As a car enthusiast, like many others, I'm now at the point where I'm holding my breath everyday wondering when another "issue" is going to surface with Toyota. It's been a daily occurrence over the last couple of weeks.

    Someone else mentioned it, the last nail will be struck when one of the "fixed" cars accelerates out of control, or doesn't stop when commanded to. I think that's inevitable, though. And, it will only take ONE of those incidents, too.

    The day that they can say "we're concerned and plan on doing better" has come and gone. We'll see what Toyota has to say, and the specific, significant and verifiable steps they plan to take when they are dragged before the NHTSA and Congress.

    A few of the people I know who work for Toyota have mentioned to me that this has been a long time coming. While it's going to hurt Toyota, and hurt badly, for probably a long period of time. In the long run, I do think it will be good for Toyota. This will make them a much more responsible and concerned company, when they come out of the other end of this. They aren't going to be #1 anymore....maybe not even #2, or even #3. But, they will be better.

    In the interim, their employees are nervous, seeking grounded leadership, which hasn't surfaced yet. Customers are nervous, if not wondering if their car is affected, at least worried about plummeting resale values. Their dealerships are nervous, mainly because they've probably lost a whole lot of potential customers who used to rely on Toyota's quality and safety reputation to get people in the door.
  • "Unfortunately for Toyota, I'm afraid that's exactly where they find themselves."

    that's precisely the point.

    if every manufacturer were held to the same standard (of proving that any and all accidents are not the fault of their products), they wouldn't be able to produce and sell any vehicles and you wouldn't be able to buy and drive any vehicles.

    or any other products for that matter.

    think of it as you being stop'd by a policy officer and he asks that you prove that you are not a criminal, or he would take you to the policy station.

    how could a society function on that kind of notion?

    and that's precisely what the society is asking of toyota: to prove that any accident involving a toyota vehicle is NOT the fault of their vehicles.
  • mtrialsmmtrialsm Posts: 159
    200 to 300 million lines of code is far fetched much less 20 million line,,,,,,more like in the 100 thousands reange,,,,,,,,,,but who's counting.
    I agree, with all the sensors and crap on cars now, no wonder we are having problems. I work in software/hardware testing and the costs of 100% testing is very expensive. Send it out and let the user find the bugs,,,,,,,,,then cover it up with a TSB.
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