Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

fletch45

http://www.zainobros.com/index.shtml

fletch45

If you think you have had trouble with vehicles, you should read some of these messages by Kia owners
jim f

beefcake

True, but I doubt any of those Kia owners spent $30,000+ on their cars.

fletch45

Oops!

http://members.tripod.com/aiki_joe/i_hate_kia/email3.html

mcgyver75

Hi,

Anyone here bought/buying a Trailblazer using the GM employee discounts? ...GMS/GMO price?

Here is one package I'm considering (on the dealer lot):
2002 Trailblazer LT 4WD
w/ running boards, locking diff, wol tires,
cd player + cassette, driver convenience pkg

Total MSRP is $32760. Invoice is $29721. GMS (GM in-stock) price is $28,676. The GMO (built-to-order) price for identical package is about $450 less (because of no dealer advertising costs, etc).

Here's my question:
If I'm not mistaken, a distant Chevrolet dealer told me over the phone that a dealer can lose its "license" if doesn't sell the vehicle for exactly that price--the GMS/GMO price.

Is that true?
Or can I negotiate some more taking into account the dealer holdback (about $1000 or so for this model)?

The reason is that according to those numbers above, the dealer "should" still be losing money because $28676 (GMO price) + $1000 (holdback) = $29676... which is still under the dealer's invoice price of $29721. So what other EXTRAS is the dealer getting from GM???????

thanks!
Scott.

P.S. Somebody please inform me what the "wholesale financial reserve/floorplan fee" is... and what the average amount for a $30,000 vehicle that amounts to for the dealer.

lurker01

My father is a retired GM employee, so we have bought all our cars using the discounts. If you do the math, you will see that GMS = Invoice - holdback. Holdback is about 3% on GM vehicles. GMO beats GMS because there is no compensation to the dealer for having the car on the lot. The dealer does get a fixed "commission" from GM when they sell a vehicle at GMO or GMS. There is no way to negotiate a better deal. And you can be assured that nobody else will ever get the truck for less than you. If they did, the dealer would actually lose money on the deal. Since most are getting theirs for ~$500 over invoice, the GMO price on a loaded Envoy works out to about $2750 lower than that including taxes.
As far as dealers losing their license goes, I don't know anything about that, but I do know that they can decline to sell you a vehicle at GMO or GMS if they think they can sell their entire allotment at market prices.
Your best bet is to visit all area dealers and find the one who treats you the best and offers the most for your trade in, if you have one. Since you don't need to worry about price, your shopping experience will be less stressful.
I do recommend you wait for the trade in appraisal before telling them you get the employee discount, however.

good luck.

-John.

agenteleven

Anybody have problems with chipped paint around the large plastic license plate surround on the TB's liftgate?

It's hardly noticeable, but some of my black paint has chipped away in the small groove where the plastic meets the metal .

I haven't had the dealer look at it, yet, but I worry that it will be an involved repair.

Anybody else's like this?

mfullmer

I have only noticed the loud "thud" only when accelerating after the car has downshifted (in other words - not from a standstill but going from say 20 mph or so). You want to know what my dealer said? "Your other car is a Seville so it just "seems" harsh to you". Hello!!!! I know what harsh is and it's HARSH!!

My passenger belt also does that. It has only been noticed when someone is using it and have used the brakes. Then it locks up and the person has to fully retract it. You want to know what my dealer said? "It's supposed to do that so that the belt locks the passenger in. It sounds like it works again after they "reset" it". Hello!!!! I doubt that GM wants people unbuckling their seatbelt while the car is moving in order to "reset" it.

My console squeaks very badly and hopefully when they repair it they won't cut a hole in my dash.

One thing I've realized is that GM mechanics (other than Cadillac) are idiots. They have no pride in their work and couldn't care less about the customer.

I'm taking my Bravada to my Cadillac dealer from now on!!!

mfullmer

Regarding Traction Control:

According to Oldsmobile it will be an optional feature with "late availability". Who knows what that means but as of today you cannot order it as an option.

earlc

Thanks fletch45, for the info. I am placing my order today for some of Zaino's cleaning products.

lurker01

I have read a rumor on this board that the 2003 model will have a 22gal gas tank. Since my '96 Jimmy has an 18gal tank and I know what it is like to live with, I would wait for the bigger tank, if it is coming. However, if it is not, I may pick up an Envoy this fall if there are some $$ incentives. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor? Any other news about the 2003 leaking out yet?
I hope they don't change the styling. I love the looks of these trucks.

-John.

lyndellw

I have the same problem with my Envoy. There seems to be some flexing around that area. The insert panel that surrounds the license plate is made of plastic. It is attached to metal, I doubt very much if repainting would solve your problem. To me it is a poor design. Perhaps if GM would come out with a TSB consisting of a fitted rubber gasket it might work. If you notice most of the triplets have this problem,or will have.

agenteleven

Holy smoke! I didn't think about the plastic expanding and contracting in the sunlight! I think that just might be the cause of the chipping.

Lyndellw: What have you done about yours? Am I seeing the metal or the gray primer where the paint is missing? Do you think it will rust?

If I could figure out a way to get that plastic piece off, I could make a thin rubber gasket to fit it.

lyndellw

I think what you see is primer, if it should happen to start rusting then it wouud have to be painted. However, it would do the same thing again. I tried to use touchup paint, but it only lasted a week or so. To remove that panel you would have to take the cover off the inside of the hatch lid. Just another very poor example of design. I hope they come out with a TSB,it is or will be a problem on most vehicles.

pcrisp

I was wanting to start using Mobil 1 oil in my 2002 Bravada, and I would also like to use a Mobil 1 filter. Does anyone know which Mobil 1 filter cross-references to the AC Delco PF59?

And is this a good choice?

agenteleven

pcrisp: I don't know anything about Mobil 1 or the filter cross-ref, but you might be interested in what I read in the alt.trucks.chevy newsgroup:

It seems a user went to change his oil and discovered the factory had installed a PF58 oil filter instead of the recommended PF59. Allegedly, the word from Chevy is that either one is acceptable, but the PF59 is preferred. Supposedly, the difference is an (anti?) drain-back valve on one but not the other.

Verify any substitutions with GM. Make sure you won't void your warranty.

You can find the PF58/59 thread by searching for "Trailblazer oil filter" on dejanews.com

agenteleven

Do you folks have plastic trim pieces on all four corners of the front seat mounting brackets? My TB LTZ has 3 of the 4 mounting points/bolts covered with a small plastic cover on each front seat, but the front inside bolt exposed on each seat. Is this normal?

Also, for those of you with passenger power lumbar adjustment, is your passenger lumbar button different from your driver lumbar button? My passenger seat lumbar button is MUCH larger than the driver's. Is this normal, too?

stu13

If anyone has squeaks or rattles in the passenger door please respond.

Wind noise is still bad, tried moving the roof racks bar's, no real difference.

Hinges in back seats still visible and painful.

mchance13

I want to purchase an extended warranty for my Envoy. Can anyone recommend an extended warranty from any of the on-line companies such as Warranty Direct, AutoByTel, 1Source etc.

macman246

Has anyone found a quick on/off antenna replacement for OnStar? I'm getting tired of unscrewing and then re-installing the antenna when I park in not-so-friendly places. I'm also thinking of using Krazy Glue to make it semi-permanent, but I'm not sure how that will affect reception.

I've had the Envoy now for 6 days with no problems. Very nice car.

iansutherland

Is anone experiencing a problem with the transfer case switch indicating A4WD while the selector switch remains in 2HI. Moving the selector to 4HI and back to 2 HI re-sets the condition. This has happened twice on it's own. Before I report it I wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this condition.

And YES, my wife constantly complains about the passenger seatbelt locking to the point she has to release it while driving to reset the condition. This is a definite safety issue which will be reported to the NHTSA.

njtblzr

I have had a problem related to this. My TB will have the service 4wd warning light go on and the transfer case switch indicate 4wd Hi or awd and then go back to 2wd, while the selector was in 2wd. My TB was in the shop 2 weeks ago and they said it was a lose wire on the selector. They same problem happened again on Wed and my TB is in the shop now to be looked at again tomorrow for this. I have 1k miles on it and have had it for 4 weeks.

Besides this it is a great vehicle.

dindak

I think you should just stay out of those neighborhoods.

;-)

Seriously though, the Crazy Glue should work fine.

greebo

Well, I finally plunked-down the money for a 2002 Bravda (2WD) with Conv. and Lux. package and sunroof (lack of "standard" traction control notwithstanding). Absolute beauty of an automobile! As I was reading through the owner's manual, I seem to recall our salesperson explaining that the Bravada had tire pressure sensors (presumably integrated into the ABS system, as on several recent GM cars). However, I cannot find mention of the feature (or the corresponding DIC error message) in the manual. Did the salesperson misspeak?

fletch45

Trailblazer LTZ...my lumbar buttons appear identical to me...don't know what to tell you. Also, The front seat mount closest to the console (both sides) is not covered on mine either. Sorry, not much help.

greebo...I did quite a bit of research on the Bravada and the TB before I bought. Don't remember any mention anywhere about the tire pressure monitoring feature the salesman mentioned to you. I know my LTZ doesn't have this feature, since I have already had a tire repaired.
jim f

stever

GM to Stop Making Oldsmobile in '04

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sostrouble

On a trip we took, the front seat belt did the same thing. Everytime we hid a bump in the road the seat belt would tighten until I had to take it off and put it back on. It also happens in the back seat on the outside seats. The dealer explained to me that those three belts are made with a ratchet to tighten them when child car seats are there. To stop the problem, do not pull the seat belt out all the way when putting it on. Then the ratchet control will not be activated unless pulled out all the way. I asked if they could change the front passenger seat to be the same as the driver seat, and they said no because it was required to be installed that way. Doesn't seem right since they recommend that child seats are not in the front because of the airbag. But now I'm careful to not pull it out all the way, and it doesn't get tighter when driving, except when I lean forward to pick something up off the floor.

troutfan

I thought I read somewhere here, but can't find a the number or web site that you can check the delivery date for new factory orders. Any help would be appreciated. I have the GMC vehicle order number. HOw long take is take to get into the system?

Thanks, Troutfan

fletch45

I ordered a TB and got the build date info through Chevrolet customer service (by telephone). You will need a different number for GMC. Try their web site.

The reps that answer the phone had to check with someone else (who was only available daytime M-F) to get the info. I had to call them back later and the info was on their computer under my name.
Good luck
jim f

acl1966

I thought the same as you concerning a site to track an order. Found out there isn't one for customer use. GM Fleet has an area to track an order but you have to be a car dealer with a passcode to get into the site. Your only option is to call GMC like I did. Call 800-GMC-8782, hit option #3. Give the rep. your order # and she will set up a file #. It worked well for me. They will give you the scheduled production week. After that, you should call your dealer to get your delivery date. In my case, my Envoy scheduled production week was Aug. 20. I called GMC on 8/27, they told me my truck was built on 8/24. Shipping 2-3 weeks. My dealer got an invoice on 8/30 giving the VIN # and price. This tells the shipping date which was the build date 8/24 and est. arrival date 8/31 for train to arrive at the yard. GM is moving out these vehicles very quickly after they're built. After my truck arrived at the railhead (Tampa, Fl.) on 8/31, my truck was delivered to the dealer on 9/4. I picked up my truck on 9/6, exactly 2 months after my order date of 7/6. The only problem I saw was the paint chipping around the rear license plate area. See prev. posts. Dealer fixed it, but I think this may be a chronic problem I'll have to live with. My Envoy is the 4WD SLT, black w/dark pewter with 1SK package and running boards. It has the DVD player from GM. It only has 5 miles on it now, haven't had a chance to drive it yet. Everything seems to work fine. The DVD is small and looks nice. It matches the other two roof consoles that are up there. I'll keep this post updated as time goes on.

iukstu

Yes, my seat belt tightens up also, but what I am referring to is that my seat belt will not even come out of the seat to be hooked. It is stuck inside the front passenger seat and will not release so anyone can put it on. I even had it fixed...have the paperwork to prove it. Still haven't heard anymore from my dealer about the cut they put in my dash. Guess I am going to have to CALL THEM...AGAIN. If anyone is planning on purchasing a vehicle in the Muncie, Indiana area...let's talk dealerships! I have bought new vehicles for over 25 years and I have NEVER had these sort of problems. NEVER! But...I usually have dealt with another dealership. I guess I have learned my lesson. If you are considering a purchase in my area, ask me about my dealership.

stever

Midsize Suv Makes Gains With Its Dimensions, Power

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agenteleven

Concerning your chipped paint in the rear license plate area: How did the dealer fix it? Touch up paint, repaint the liftgate, or what?

bryancos

I had a problem with the Service 4WD light coming on, and occasionally seeing multiple selections on the 4WD switch illuminated at the same time. (ie; 2WD and 4HI were both lit) The problem was (hopefully correctly) traced to a defective 4WD Switch. Took it to a local GM dealership (bought the car in Denver, having it serviced in Colorado Springs) and they replaced the switch. So far the problem seems to be gone.

mfullmer

Well, your salesman mispoke or you misunderstood him. What he was probably referring to was the air compressor with hose and gauge for filling the tires if need be.

Trust me, after doing months and months of research I was disappointed in just how ignorant the salesmen are about the vehicles these days.
On one hand they usually do have more than one make they sell and some cars of the same manufacturer have features others don't.

On the other hand, if I, a layperson, knows what Oldsmobiles have what, the salesman should know.

In the end, It just goes to prove that as a consumer you must research, research, research before you make such a large purchase.

BTW, My Bravada is an Indigo Blue AWD. I love it and aside for the squeaks, rattles and the seatbelt problem, I'm happy and it gets looks like no other SUV I have owned.

okay1

I am looking to add chrome tubular running-boards to my Trailblazer LS. Does anyone know of a manufacturer?

agenteleven

I agree 100%, mfullmer... The salesman should know MORE than what I know about a particular vehicle. But it turns out, I was pointing out features and options on my TB that he knew NOTHING about. ...and I had only spent about ten minutes with the brochure.

In some cases, this ignorance becomes DANGEROUS, like the Jeep salesman that told me "ALL new cars come standard with anti-lock brakes." I ran from that dealership.

By the way, my TB salesman told me "This truck won't roll over, because it doesn't have a roll-over sticker on the visor." This illogical thinking was repeated at about 3 dealerships I walked into. Where do they get these guys?

ees1996

I am looking into after market wheels. I just would like any info to where I can find some to fit any of the Triplets. So far tire rack has none out right now. Also will the rims from a Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban fit? They also have the six bolt pattern. Thanks for all input.

bryancos

okay1, Manik makes nice looking tube steps (black or stainless steel) for the TB and Envoy:

TB: http://www.manik.com/images/2002%20Chevy%20Trailblazer-PR.jpg

Envoy: http://www.manik.com/images/2002%20GMC%20Envoy-PR.jpg

WAAG and GO RHINO don't have anything listed yet on their sites, but you might call them and ask...

acl1966

The chipped paint was done at the factory when they were installing the license plate assembly into the tailgate. The chipped paint was in a groove between the outer edge of the assembly and the tailgate indentation, so it was an easy fix. At first,it looked like wax build-up in that groove but I remembered reading this site and I realized what it was. The body shop foreman used a small brush and his special paint to fill in the area where the chipped paint was. He put a thin bead of this paint around the assembly in that groove. He did an excellent job. You can't tell that it was ever touched up or that the tailgate ever had a problem and the chipped paint is gone. Now, I'm waiting for my Zaino Bros. polish to arrive so I can treat the entire vehicle.

greebo

My salesman (who was otherwise wonderful to work with) must have confused the Bravada with another model (Aurora?), since he specifically mentioned the tire pressure monitor in conjunction with the DIC.

As far as my black 2WD Bravada is concerned, I love it (aside from the loose headliner and front facia)! In response to an earlier message, I have the Bose system and I too find it curious that either (i) the AUTO VOL defaults to OFF everytime the truck is started or (ii) it is the only button in the Bravada that changes mode when pressed once. The sound system sounds great otherwise...

While we slightly preferred the styling of the Envoy, we could not beat the value (lower price and 60K Major Guard) in the Bravada. I was disappointed, however, when I learned that Traction Control is a "late availability" feature on the 2WD Bravada. In addition, the Envoy's headlight washers did not carry over to the Bravada (probably due to the different headlight designs and the relative probability of a Bravada ever going offroad).

hambone7

Some people have posted concerns about door rattles. I have noticed that, when not in use, the passenger and driver seat belt bucket vibrants/bumps against a plastic cover between the front and rear doors. The noise that is produced sounds like a rattle/thumping in the door.

hambone7

All of mine were missing from day one.

jw4gm

mgrcm......in an earlier post, you requested a part number for an Envoy cargo mat. Did you ever get the number? If so, please post it for the rest of us. I requested the number from gmpartsdirect and got 12497951 for pewter, but I'd like to verify it with someone who has actually received a mat. Does the mat have the Envoy emblem? Thanks.

mgrcm

This is the part # I got from local GM dealer for Med Pewter int. Cargo Liner-12497847.I havn't ordered so I can't verify this.The part # difference may be the difference between the Dark and Med. Pewter int. colors? Or they gave me the wrong number.And I have heard they do have the Envoy emblem on them.

P.S. I've put 5 coat's of Zaino Bros. Z-2 car polish on my Indigo Blue Envoy and as I have said earlier this stuff is great on dark colors.Have no fear buying a dark color using this car polish.

Rick.

mgrcm

Just a little car tip a dealer once told me and I've done ever since.I always flip the car mats upside down when I pick up a new vehicle.That way when it comes time to sell your car the mats will be just like new.Thats why I haven't ordered the cargo liner yet, I simply flipped the mat that came with it over for now.I will get the cargo liner towards winter when I start heading to Vermont snowmobiling.

Rick.

badgerpaul

But why would you want to look at the back side of the mat. Personally I buy the car for me and not for the next owner, that's what detail shops are for.

minn_tb

Hello!

I have a Indigo Blue LTZ, and I am having some weird readings on the Range for the gas mileage. The guage will float from 0 to 1/2 TANKFUL sometimes, depending on if I am going around a cloverleaf or braking. I have never seen this much fluctuation. Today I was driving and I was going around a cloverleaf, and the Range went from 32 miles to over 150! Then, as I accelerated, it gradually came back to about 50, then told me the range was low 2 miles later when I stopped. The tank reading was changing this whole time, and it is inconsistent.

Is anyone else seeing this problem, or do I have some weird defect? I know that guages on gas tanks read differently when cornering, but this is WAY more than I have ever seen before.

Also, has anyone seen any word on the availability of the brush guard from Chevy?

Thanks in advance.

brh

radar124

Hi all; I got a 2002 envoy in june of 2001. It stalled, the engine raced. The dealer repaired it 3 times, when it happened again, I returned the vehicle to the dealer and told them to keep it. It took a couple of letters to the GM CEO
(sent fed-x) but they brought the vehicle back
I picked up my new one today. I don't know of anyone else who had this problem, hope it was just a fluke. The dealer (Pontiac-GMC of Mahwah
NJ) was great. after GM would not pay for a rental car any longer(they wanted me to use my old car until the new one came in) the dealer gave me one of his used cars to use, he didn't have to do this. The point being, don't give up!!
the process takes about a month to complete and you can't let up for a minute. Every state has some type of law. GM would rather give you a car them have you notify the state. anyone who lives in the ny/nj area and needs a envoy, this dealer is the best.(price and service.)

mcgyver75

I'm going to place an factory order (GMO) for a LT Trailblazer sometime real soon. However, the local Chevrolet dealer told me today that the price may not be guaranteed--not until it finally gets delivered. Is this true?!

The dealer told me something like there might be a 1 in 50 chance that the price may go up a "few hundred dollars" between when the GMO order is placed and when it is delivered.

Can anyone share any similar experiences?
Should I get the price fixed in writing before I actually place the GMO order? Has anyone else been told this?