Mazda Protegé

boggse

Well, I don't know that BMWs, especially the 3 series, have that sort of caché anymore. Where I live they seem to out number Accords. It has become just another cookie cutter sedan to me. Albeit, one that drives spectacularly.

newcar31

BMWs period are a dime a dozen here in Eden Prairie. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about in my circle of friends who drive old Accords, MR2s, Civics, Integras, etc. I would definately be "that guy".

boggse

Well, in that case, go for it. They will all be jealous of you. There is nothing like making friends feel inferior. ;-)

protegextwo

Hi Pete! I hope you and your family are well. Enjoy your truly excellent honker! ;-)

-Larry

chikoo

that exhaust tip is not a beer can. It is much thicker stainless steel rectangle(almost square) tip from Pilot Automotive that matches the boxy rear of the 99+Protege. And it is as elegant looking as the sepang green. You HAVE to look at it to appreciate it. and it is not one of the 20 gallon barrel that people in civicnation use.

chikoo

Pete, for petes sake, why did you forsake us? Glad to see that you are alive and still enjoying your Pro. Horn! Ah! I have a 1991 Ford Taurus as a backup(???) car and you should listen to that horn. Paaaaarrrrpp....now that feels like a 16-wheeler...scares the **** if you were standing right in front of it.

speedypt

Chikoo,

No forsaking here. Just too dang busy to hit all three boards. NIPro (Northern Illinois Proteges) just had our first meet of the season and it went very well! 10 Pro's turned out in Mt. Prospect, IL at a local restaurant. Pics available soon.

As for my "honker" it's great to see the looks from people when the "rich" horn sound comes from Trigger.

:-)

Regards,

Pete

the_big_h

the itch for the propeller badge is abating i see

want to re-scratch it again? *evil grin*

this time with a 330i! muahahahha

newcar31

The sales lady told me that I shouldn't drive the 330i because then I'd be in REAL trouble. I'm not in any hurry and the itch isn't completely gone; I don't know if it ever will be. If I don't think about it, I'll be OK.

But I can't stop thinking about it. I keep having flashbacks of the propeller badge on the steering wheel, looking over the hood, hearing that inline 6 scream, and that super solid chassis. No wonder the sales lady *insisted* that I drive one. I wasn't planning on driving one because it was rush hour and raining and I just wanted a brochure and lease details.....but that lady was persistant and when she said: "you might as well drive one while you're here". I couldn't resist. So she walked me out to the parking lot (holding an umbrella over my head so I didn't get wet), and handed me the key and said "have fun" and she walked back into the dealership. It was one of the only times I've been able to test drive a car without the salesperson. I had to have a salesperson ride with when I took the Protege for a test drive, but not the BMW. Weird.

mdaffron

Well guys, you haven't heard from me in a few days because I was out searching for the perfect vehicle, and I found it. I traded my 2000 ES for this vehicle over the weekend, and now I have something with a great-sounding exhaust, the power to kill anything on the road, grrr-rreat tires, and did I say this thing could really haul?

(I'm standing next to my new ride, to the lower right.)

Whaddaya think? Just don't dump on me!

http://www.kenkenkikki.jp/zukan/dump/e_032.html

Meade

the_big_h

every man needs a vehicle that fits his stature...

:-D

the_big_h

now you're making ME want to take a bimmer for a spin...

I must resist the temptation and wait for the RX-8!!!

newcar31

I was thinking about one of those too, but the insurance was too much and it didn't fit in my garage. I heard they have 0% financing though now......

fowler3

Speed Yellow! Are those Dumflop tires? Meade, with that road toy you don't have to crawl under it to change the oil. For people who like to sit high it can't be beat.

Is Tammy going to get the wagon version?

fowler3

fowler3

I got a good look at the blue Mazda on Giro d'Italia this morning, it's not the Mazda3, it looks like a 2-door Golf so it must be the Mazda2.

Front looks very much like the Sportif.

fowler3

fowler3

OLN is the Outdoor Life Network which features sports of all kinds as well as fishing and hunting.

My favorite program is Canon Safari, featuring famous professional photographers taking celebrities on a photo shoot and teaching them how to use lenses and make proper exposures. Although the cameras are Canon, one can apply the instructions to any 35mm and to digital cameras.

Check out oln.com for schedules in your area, also available on satellite TV.

fowler3

nematode

Yup, believe it or not. The main reasons?
1)I could pay for the Protege in less than 2 years without putting much down. I'll own it in a couple of months. On the BMW I would have had to go 60 months and wait another 6 months for a good down payment.
2) If I'm going to get a BMW I'm not getting a stripper.
3) The 325 is a horrible value (to buy not lease) and worse in xi form in my opnion. Its not a very good "Ultimate Driving Machine". With the comfort, sport package, and premium package the best price I could get was like $34k and change. I dont think so.
4) I drove the 330xi. Once you drive the 330 you realize that the 325 is as exciting as a Honda Accord. If you cannot afford the 330....DO NOT DRIVE IT!!!! I could not afford the 330 the way I wanted it (even used) so I punted and went for the Protege ES. By the way the 330xi easily cracks $40k. I think it was $41k the way I wanted it. At the $38k level you dont even get real leather.

About $30k was my upper limit without eating a steady diet of water and pasta but in the end there was nothing there that I could get really excited about. There was the WRX but at the time it has those 1996 Dodge Neon headlights that I just could not look at. I did try the Acuras too but the FWD just turns me off in performance sedans. I just like push of the RWD or the glue like stick of AWD. The ideal car for me would be a 330xi wagon but he $45k price tag is keeping me from owning one.

the_big_h

I know I should go to the BMW board to ask, but Todd, can you give me a quick overview of the $299 lease deal on the 325i?

mdaffron

Tammy's P5 and my trade are parked in the "cargo area."

Just what I always wanted ... a car with a deck ...

mdaffron

Funny, I was just thinking of how fun it would be to go to the Sentra, Elantra, Civic or Corolla discussions and find out how many of their owners have been out driving Bimmers prior to deciding on their cars ...

Meade

newcar31

nematode---That's why the lady didn't want me to drive a 330i. Honestly though, the 325i is not what you could call a slow car. It does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, which is plenty quick for me. I also don't know if there is such thing as a "stripper" BMW. The "stripper" comes with power windows, power locks, CD player, anti-theft, keyless entry, ABS, stability control, traction control, and other things I cannot remember right now. The "leatherette" looks just like real leather, but it lasts longer and it's cheaper.

"Its not a very good "Ultimate Driving Machine"."

It's the exact same car as a 330i but it's about 8 tenths of a second slower to 60.

Hank--It's $2500 down plus tax, title, and license with 10,000 miles a year. If you want more miles, you can add them and your payment is a little more. Residual is around 61%, so you can figure out the buyout based on the MSRP of the car you might choose.

Meade--I was thinking the exact same thing. Prospective Protege buyers, and Protege owners seem to be a different breed than the folks who are looking at, or own Corollas, Civics, Sentras, etc.

boggse

"2) If I'm going to get a BMW I'm not getting a stripper.

Well, I would think both are fun to have. I wonder if Edmunds has a True Cost to Own worksheet for Strippers. ;-)

the_big_h

our beloved Protege finished 3rd out of 8 cars in Edmund's 2003 econo-sedan comparison test.

the Civic won the whole thing, btw.

grrrrrrr.....

vocus

I see you got a nice decision to make for yourself. You already know what my answer would be, since I already did it more than once.

About the snow traction though: My co-worker had a 323i with the stability and traction control, and it still spun sideways on snow and ice (I was behind it, I saw it myself). Something to think about in a snowy climate. Other than that, I would go for it in a second. You only live once.

newcar31

for a design that's been around for 5 years.

newcar31

I've driven my old Mustang a couple times in the winter and it had wide Z-rated summer tires, no traction control, and a butt load of torque (over 300 ft-lbs) down low. It wasn't fun and I'm sure the 3 series will be much better.

nematode

Its a little off topic but the 325 and 300 are on the same platform but are totally different interms of how they behave.
1) The 3.0L I-6 is a far better engine than the 2.5. The 40 or so hp difference does not tell the whole story. The 3L pulls strongly throughout the entire rev range, or at least it feels like it. Do dont have to flog it like the 2.5 to make it sing. Its also more relaxed and quiet on the highway. Neither is actually very quiet (lack of sound proofing) but the 3L is more quiet.
2) The suspension has (had) to be different. At least in the 2001/02 the dynamics were totally different. The spring rates on the 330 had to be higher but I dont know that for a fact. The 325 without the sport package was way too softly sprung. With the sport package it was better but not great.
3) The wheel and tire options were different too. The 330 came standard with 50 series with 17" and I think the 325 had 55 series with 16". Probably contributed to the ride difference too.

At the time the difference between the 2 was about $3500 (I think). Its about 10% more for 40 more hp and a smoother engine, better rims/tires, I suspect better suspension and a few more standard options. Seemed like a deal compared to the 325 for not much more money. Still, since I dont own either and opted for the Protege......I guess I'm all about value. The BMW brand is not about that. There is more to it that that.

pat

Just a thought - lots of folks who own RWD vehicles and live in snowy climates have a separate set of winter tires.

newcar31

I was really impressed by the 325i. The main difference between the 325i and the 330i is the engine and the tires and rims. That's it. The spring rates don't need to be different because the 3.0L engine doesn't weigh any more than the 2.5L and it doesn't have THAT much more power...so, I don't see why the spring rates HAVE to be different.

About the Edmunds economy sedan test. A lot of what was said sounds like what has been said in the Edmunds forums:

"The great thing about the Protegé (especially the ES) is that Mazda has managed to inject that little commuter car with what is truly the essence of Mazda. Mazda makes great cars. The company has an obvious performance edge and a little something special that is noticeable in all its cars — that it can achieve that with a low-priced car like the Protegé is a testament to all that the company can do right."

Regarding the Protege:

"For the average economy sedan buyer, though, I'd recommend checking out the Elantra, Civic and Corolla first."

Lol, "average economy sedan buyer" is an insult IMO.

ashutoshsm

(said in the same tone as 'tut tut tut')

I keep having flashbacks of the propeller badge on the steering wheel, looking over the hood, hearing that inline 6 scream, and that super solid chassis.

I know exactly what you're talking about!

But seriously - I think you WILL love owning that car, should you choose to buy it! Of course, knowing you've already taken an MT 6s out for a spin (or two) - keep the advantages (FWD, less money, potentially cheaper repairs, equally long warranty, larger interior - have you tried the Beemer's back seat?) in mind

nematode

By have I meant that in my non-professional opnion the dynamics of the two were different. I thought that the 330 had a much firmer ride and that it did not roll nearly as much in turns. Turns out after talking to my brother (who will be in an M3 soon) that at some point the "sport" package became standard on the 330 and probably the 325 too. I'm not really sure what I drove now. By that I mean if it was pre or post 330 with the sport standard. I that case it was not a fair comparison to begin with.

RE: ashutoshsm.....the beemer has a back seat? In my Protege we call the dog storage compartment. Its kinda his (or rather was, RIP) seat.

boggse

" I think you WILL love owning that car,"

Well, he may love driving it, but ownership may not be as enjoyable. We aren't exactly talking about Protegé levels of reliability here. Besides, it is a lease, right?

socraplat1

If you remove the 30% pricing element(while important it should be understood that this can be overstated because some people get better bargains than others; eg. I paid 13k before taxes for an '03 LX automatic last Novemeber), it would seem the Protege would place second. Moreover, the Protege's performance was impressive in the Editors' Evaluations.

newcar31

If money were no object and it was the editor's choice, the Protege placed first. In this catagory, the Protege scored 93.8 with the Civic in second at 90.6. It's the car most editors would park in THEIR garage. I think that says something. The Protege they tested stickered at $18,400. I bought essentially the same car (2001 ES 5sp) for around $15K @ 0% for 48 months.

protegenic

Back in '99, I bought an A4. It was silver and a real beauty. About a year later we moved and decided my wife should stay at home with the children. We ended up selling the A4 to eliminate some expenses.

Although I enjoyed the car, it didn't break me up too much to sell it. I think I learned a valuable lesson in the process so I can avoid buying something excessively expensive in my upcoming mid-life crisis. As excited as I was about the car, after a year it kind of became just another car. Sure I enjoyed driving it and still think it is awesome looking, but I get the same feeling when I drive or look at my Protege. A fun-to-drive car is just that, no matter how much you pay for it. Sure Audis and BMWs have higher limits than a Pro and are offer more luxury, but in real world driving, I find the Pro to be just fine. This applies to a number of other cars as well, such as the 6. Granted, this rationale won't apply to everyone, but it was a good lesson learned for me.

boggse

May I humbly recommend the Miata? While I don't think I have reached the midlife crisis stage (I'm only 29!), I find my Miata to be the most fun I have ever had in an automobile. The best parts are: it didn't bankrupt me, and reliability is on a par with the Protege. I'm not a horsepower junkie, so this car is perfect for me. Since I convinced my wife to get a Protege5, we still have a practical car too.

newcar31

I'm not sure what I am going to do yet but I'm not sure leasing a BMW makes sense for me. I need to buy a house soon and the Pro will be paid off in about 2 years. My Protege still drives so nice that it's really hard for me to justify getting rid of it, especially considering all the money I've spent on synthetic oil for it. IMO, it is STILL the best compact sedan overall that you can buy for less than $20K.

Although I don't see myself ever looking at a brand new BMW as "just another car", I can see where Marty is coming from.

protegenic

And I certainly didn't see the A4 initially as just another car. It is like anything you buy or marry. The "new" eventually wears off I guess.

mazdafun

Similar boat I'm in. I'm worked up over the RX-8, but will be starting construction on a house in the next year. Between the two, the house will likely win, but I don't want to wait forever for my "mid-life crisis" car either. But the "newness" might wear off. Then again, I'm still enjoying my Protege very much, and it's over 4 years old, so it might not.

fowler3

"average economy car buyer" is more an insult to those other cars than to the Protegé. That's why Edmunds suggested buyers drive them first.

Last night I was at a shopping center and saw a '03 Civic parked next to a '03 Corolla, what a big difference between the two. The Civic looked 20% smaller and considering Honda's pricing compared to Toyota's the Civic is no bargain. Those two are definately "just another car". Neither compares favorably to the Protegé.

Luxury cars: Are they "luxury" because they cost twice what they should? Why do a couple strips of wood and two cow hides make it luxurious? Look at the Lincoln LS, THAT's just another car, in fact, it's well below its competition.

The one thing that marks many cars as cheap, regardless of price, IMHO, are BS taillights. You have seen them...a swath of red plastic across the back with one tiny brake lamp at each end.

Generally speaking, all cars are pretty much the same and that's why so many buyers are disappointed with their purchases. They are taken in by the hype. Beemers have about the same reliability record as American cars. Because it's German doesn't mean it's perfect. Look at their attitude towards the VWs and Audis electrical problems.

Want a real culture shock: German taxis are Mercedes-Benz sedans, painted a muddy tan.

fowler3

pierreasdf

I had it and it costs me a lot of dollars over the last 7 years. So, I have decided to 'cure' me this time: I will keep this Protegé as long as it will be a safe and reliable car (bonus: it's also fun and inexpensive). BTW, the car industry is becoming as crazy as the computer industry: new models are becoming obsolete in just 2-3 years and at the end, you're changing a perfectly operational device. It just doesn't make sense to play this silly game.

Of course, nothing wrong with desires, just don't confuse needs and desires, that's what I have learned. Just my humble opinion ...

Pierre

the_big_h

i desire an RX-8, and will need it in order to run it on a road track (Proteges really show its inadequacies under track conditions).

there, i just justified my desire for an RX-8 with my need to get on the race track ;-)

gee35coupe

I work for a major used car retailer with over 40 stores. As an employee I have access to all trades that don't "make the cut" and can buy them at whatever the trae in amount was. We can buy 2 cars a year. In the last 4 years I have gone through at least 10 cars. I'm currently driving a 1994 LS400 and a 1995 GS300. The GS cost $5500. I've had a few chances to buy the latest design of Bimmer for very cheap(relative) but they just don't move me. Now the G35 coupe.....That's another story.

But the "illness" is real. And the only cure is a good hard look at your checkbook. But when you have credit cards offering you $10,000 at 0% interest it's hard not to jump.

meinrad

The P5 will hopefully make me smile for many years to come. While I don't Vocus my cars, I do tend to take them to loan term and then get a new one and start over.

My Civic HB has been by far the longest I've ever owned a car, going on 11 years.

But if all goes well, the P5 will still be good at the end of the loan. Thay way I have the P5 for everyday and a Miata for a fun car.

I NEED a ragtop. RX-8 droptop would be outstanding........

newcar31

fowler:

What I meant was if someone called me an "average economy sedan buyer", I'd be insulted. I'm not average, that's why I have a Protege and that's why the Edmunds editors recommened other cars besides the Protege to the "average" folks. I think we all know that the Protege isn't an average economy sedan for the average economy sedan buyer.

needs and desires:

I don't even "need" my Protege. I could walk a couple blocks and catch the bus instead of driving to the bus station every morning. The difference is the bus that runs by my condo comes way less often as the buses that leave the station. I could sit at home all weekend and depend on my friends for rides...or I could just buy a $1000 car and put liability insurance on it....or I could have bought the cheapest new car I could find. Nobody "needs" a Protege.

"While I don't Vocus my cars"

Lol...I've never Vocused a car either. So Vocus is a verb now, huh? Sorry Paul, it was funny. I've never rolled negative equity into a new car loan and I've sold most of my cars within $1000 of what I paid for them because I've never had new cars until now.

fowler3

I understand what you mean, I feel the same way. You added, "Nobody needs a Protegé", I disagree in my case. I sold a '98 Honda Odyssey and bought the Pro. I did not need a van, but neither did I want a little car that was more toy than transpertation. I had two choices, buy used or buy new if it was close to used prices, plus with new you have a warrenty.

"Need" has many meanings to various buyers. Some "need" a new car that's as good as the one they are selling or trading, or better for where they drive.

gee35coupe said, "But when you have credit cards offering you $10,000 at 0% interest it's hard not to jump." I thought most credit card companies will not approve buying a car with a cc. Some will allow, at most, $800 towards a down payment. The real bugger in the $10,000 limit at 0% is -- be late with a payment and that 0% jumps to 19.99%!

What got Paul on his last trade, besides upsidedown equity, was that old self-indulgence excuse -- "I've always wanted one." I've always wanted a lot of things, but would never buy them now, even used.

fowler3

pierreasdf

I want to add that it was not in my intention to critic anyone's decision here. I was just explaining that my enthusiasm for cars have led me to very bad financial decisions in the past, so that I have decided to stick with this car as long as possible. Luckily for me, the Protegé seems to be a very good car for a long term ownership; it does everything that I ask to a car, and it does it very well.

But I understand that cars are also 'emotional' things, I have bought a Protegé after all ...

the_big_h

in this picture



you can see those things from miles away lol

vocus

Well since you won't have negative equity and you can drive the BMW for about the same price as the Protege, what's stopping you?

mazdafun

That's how I park my red Protege (far, far away from everybody else). Shame the weather here isn't usually as nice as it looks in that pic.