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MINI Cooper

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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I wonder though, why they call it "Automatic Stability Control + Traction". From the name, it almost seems like it does perform some skid control function, and DSC perhaps take it one step further.
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I've noticed that what is sold as ASC (all-season traction control) in the US is sometimes called ASC+T (automatic stability control + traction) overseas. So I think it is marketing or perhaps US regs that don't allow systems without yaw control to have the word "Stability" in them. In any event, I'm pretty sure the standard system doesn't have a skid control function - this is DSC. But the two systems may be tied together in some way.

    In any event, my owner's manual calls it ASC, not ASC+T.

    - Mark
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    jchagtdijchagtdi Member Posts: 55
    I am considering a Mini Cooper base.

    Anyone care to share their MPG numbers?

    Does the base model require premium fuel?

    Does the revised gearing of the 2005 model's manual tranny yield any more MPG? Thanks everyone!
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Most folks are getting mileage about 10-15% under EPA estimates, around 22/29 for the S and 25/32 for the base.

    I get 22-23 overall on my S with about 70/30 town/highway. As they say, YMMV, but for such a small car, the Mini isn't terribly efficient. The engine, while tough as nails, isn't very high tech from an efficiency standpoint, and the aero characteristics of the car, with the steep windshield and abrupt tail, are relatively poor.

    Premium fuel is recommended, but the engine has knock sensors, so you can probably run regular safely with a commensurate decrease in peak power.

    Did the base Cooper's gearing change? On the S, the gearing got shorter, so it should slightly hurt mileage, but I don't think it is significant. Don't know about the base model.

    - Mark
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    hugh1hugh1 Member Posts: 8
    Will be getting a MCS...know that regular is OUT...any perceived difference between 93 premium and 91 mid-range?
    finewine
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    hugh1hugh1 Member Posts: 8
    ...oh yeah...forgot to ask...I opted out of the $550 Harmon Kardon speakers...figure I can do better after-market...any suggestions?
    finewine
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    sikboysikboy Member Posts: 1
    I've got a 2003 MINI Cooper S with about 45000km on it.
    Initially I only put hi-octane fuel in the little beast because it was my new car and I did everything MINI recommended to the letter.
    After a year of CDN $40+ dollar fillups, I decided to try a less octane rich fuel. Bad Idea! So I played around with the octane levels a bit and found this:
    87 octane (regular unleaded) = lost some zip and fuel economy dropped to about 300-400 km a tank.
    89 octane (plus) = also lost some zip and fuel economy was a bit better than cheap stuff at 350-450 km a tank.
    91 octane (super) = best choice (just like the boys at BMW recommended) I get plenty of zoom and fuel eco may get as high as 600 km a tank if I'm good. I usually get about 480-500 km.
    93 octane (super plus) = more money for no benefit. In fact I don't get quite as good performance out of it. I've never broken 550 km to a tank on 93 octane and usually fare a bit worse than 450 a tank.

    I looked into the science of internal combustion engines a bit and it all boils down to using fuel that burns at the appropriate temperature for your engine.

    Enjoy your MINI.
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    hugh1hugh1 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks to sikboy for the reply. Been to Canada many times, and for those who need to convert, divide KM by 1.6 to get miles. Then just divide miles by 13(Mini tank capacity) to get mpg.

    example: @91 octane, sikboy was usually getting 500km/tank. 500/1.6=312.5 mi/13=24mpg

    finewine
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Hi, I have an '05 MC that I picked up in August. I was one of those people who thought it was the cutest and cuddliest car and just couldn't wait to have one. For those who are considering this car, please take into consideration the size factor. It scares me to death to drive my car now. All of sudden, I feel there are a lot more Hummers around when I'm out and about. I was on the freeway the other day in front of one of these behemoths, and another SUV tried to cut the Hummer off and didn't see my car in front of it. The jerk in the SUV nearly spun me off the road in his zeal to cut into my lane. The Cooper is just one hell of a small car, and you need to keep that in mind when you are driving, especially on the freeway.

    The other issue is gas mileage - it sucks. I drive about 85% city, and my mileage has varied from 17.5 to 20.5 for a tank. It's really bad. When these posters come on and say mileage isn't bad, I get 25 city or whatever they say, keep in mind that they are talking about COMBINED city and highway mileage on their tank. This car doesn't do anything close to 25 mpg on city-only driving.

    I actually don't have any complaints about my car mechanically - I bought it brand-new, it's not a lemon, everything works fine, but I no longer think it's "cool" to drive a cute car that may put me in traction or in a hospital bed in even a not-so-serious accident. Since August, I have put only 2,100 miles on my car, mainly because I only drive around town in it, and now I just try to drive as little as possible. I paid cash for it, so I will probably sell it and get a Prius or some other better-mileage car. Now that I don't drive it as much, I've actually lost a few pounds and developed my leg muscles because I'm using my bicycle more. (I realize that bicycles are not safer than cars, even dangerous cars like the MINI, but in my town we have bike lanes and paths for cyclists that can mitigate the risks.)

    I'm sure these comments will be less than welcome here, but I wanted to put in my 0.02 after 7 months of ownership.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I understand your concern but in terms of weight, the Mini is not any smaller than cars such as the Civic, Corolla, Echo, etc. And even in terms of size, is it that much smaller than, say, a Miata, or a Z3? Also, for a small car, the Mini is packed with more safety equipment that the average "economy" car.
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Sorry Mini ownership didn't work out. I echo your sentiments about gas mileage - it should be better, although keep in mind that yours will slowly improve as you get 10K miles on it. And if you're truly getting 17.5 mpg in typical city driving, there might be something wrong.

    It probably doesn't allay your fears, but as the previous poster said, the Mini is probably just as safe as other small cars and has good safety ratings. You're not going to gain much, if any, crash-worthiness going to a Prius.

    And there is the issue of active safety. The Mini has excellent steering, brakes, and visibility, so if you are a skilled driver, you might avoid an accident that you wouldn't be able to in a larger, more ungainly car.

    I don't want to make this a SUV bashing exercise, but it has been shown statistically that SUVs, which most people think are safer, are involved in a dispropotionate number of accidents. Experts attribute this to both the size and poorer handling of SUVs, and to more aggressive driving because people feel more invunerable. In a smaller car, drivers can avoid many accidents that an SUV can't. And people drive more cautiously as they're more aware of the consequences. It will be a sad day when we're all driving 3-ton tanks that get 11 mpg that get into accidents more frequently so we can all be "safer".

    You're right about the bicycling having its own risks, probably much greater than any risk of car driving. I agree with your rationalization of this risk (the benefit is worth it and the risk can be mitigated), but that is exactly the same rationalization that can be applied to driving a small car like the Mini. And if you really want to mitigate and manage the risk of driving a small car, take a high-performance driving school. A driver with recent formalized driver training is probably safer in a 69 Dodge Dart than an unskilled driver in a Hummer.

    Whatever you do, make sure the new car you buy has ABS and dynamic skid control. I'd venture that a Mini with DSC is much safer than a Prius without it.

    - Mark
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Mark and bodble, I appreciate the comments, and thanks for the vote of confidence about the car. What I probably feel most is disappointment, because of course I loved the car when I bought it.

    If you can say a little more about the gas mileage, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts. My mileage might actually be more between 90-100% city. I might get on a freeway to go a couple of miles down the road and then exit. I also live in a highrise condo building, and my parking space is FIVE FLOORS above ground level. That is five floors of round-and-round slow turning, and I probably do it twice a day, coming and going. That can't help the gas mileage issue at all. I try and remember to click the steering wheel consumption button each time I fill up; I also use the most expensive gas, only at Chevron. The car is an automatic, and I live and drive in an area with lots of traffic (and, it seems, loads of SUVs!), and lots of stoplights and congestion. I have only recently started pushing the gearshift thing over towards the right (someone told me the car will do better at slower speeds there), and I notice there is less braking heading down in the parking garage when I'm doing that. When I get out of the garage, I put it back in "drive."

    I drove the car once on a 400-mile trip and noticed it got up to 34 mpg, and that made the overall tank average something like 24-25, but generally, during the course of my driving, I haven't broken 20 mpg.

    I will give serious thought to a driving course; it is not something I ever considered, and I'm sure it will help my confidence. Mark, you are probably right that my own driving skills (lack thereof) and lack of confidence in handling these traffic situations is not helping matters.

    I realize I am reacting emotionally, and a lot of it probably has to do with my "political" feelings about Hummers, SUVs, etc. I can't stand the things, and I feel guilty enough driving a small car, given the Iraq war and the push for oil, etc. But that is OT.

    Thanks again for the kind words and understanding. Maybe I can get past this and love my MINI again! :)
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    greyscale, I'd just hang in a while and see how things develop. You're fortunate in that these cars have excellent resale so you're not going to get burned waiting a year or so. If the area you're in has a shortage and you were on a waiting list, you might even get about what you paid.

    I was cross-shopping the Mini and the Prius. Both had something extra to offer over other competitive cars: the Prius had the fuel efficiency in a very comfortable package with Toyota reliability, while the Mini had the fun-to-drive factor. After test drives in which the Prius seemed like an motion appliance and the Mini seemed like a Italian sports sedan, the choice was easy. At my 7K miles/year average, the Prius was going to save me a $25/month on gas, but in the scheme of things, this just wasn't worth driving a car that I could respect, but otherwise didn't enjoy driving.

    If you do get something else, the Prius will nail the gas problem, or you could look at something like the Mazda 3 or new VW Jetta. But, both of these cars are likely to get 15 mpg in the tough situation you're in. I have a 2004 Cooper S which gets about 23 mpg overall, with about a 70-30 city/highway mix.

    Good luck with your decision,

    - Mark
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    micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Yeah, I had a MINI on order but at the last minute got a VW Golf instead; the MINI has the "cool" factor down pat, but I wanted just a little bigger car. I do miss the awesome "go kart" cornering that I experienced on my extended test drive, but I'll wait until they come out with a "MIDI" instead.
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    micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I'd recommend against the Mazda3 at this point. It failed the IIHS.org new side impact test. Of 14 small cars tested, only the Cobalt and Corolla, each with side impact air bags, passed the test. I was surprised the Mazda3 failed, since it is constructed on the new global platform jointly developed with Ford and Volvo and which is the basis for the Volvo S40.

    Of midsize cars, the Camry and Accord with side curtain airbags do very well.

    The Prius wasn't tested.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    My experience is that PURE, 100% city driving has a huge impact on gas mileage. Last year I moved from the suburb to the city. Whereas I was doing about 85/15 hwy/city driving, I am now almost 100% city, squirting from stoplight to stoplight, with lots of idling, and shorter trips. And my mileage dropped almost 4 mpg. (My car is a '04 TL automatic).
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for the info, micweb. Was the mini included in those crash tests? If so, how did it fare?
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Yes, the only way to deal with it I suppose is to get the Prius. The Lupo currently isn't allowed in the States, from what I understand, but I'd love to have one of those! Like Mark, I went with the Mini because I didn't feel the banality and uninspired design of the Prius was worth the better gas mileage, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

    And the bigger issue for me might be a lack of confidence in my driving skills. I was used to driving Volvos up until I bought the Mini, which of course is like driving a tank. Plus, I just don't DO much driving, so that doesn't help when I'm confronted with these quick-decision situations. I'll check out a driving school around here.
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    micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    The MINI was mentioned, but IIHS said it was holding off their testing because MINI advised them they were reconfiguring the airbags or something. I don't recollect right now - their website is worth checking out. They don't pull punches.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I think what Mark said earlier about a driver in a smaller vehicle being able to avoid some accidents may be very valid. My wife up until recently drove an '02 Accord sedan. She is only about 5'2" (and a short 5'2" at that!). When she was behind the wheel of the Accord, it seems that she was always cranking her neck just to see over the hood. Although the Accord is not a large car by today's standard, its size still seemed to everwhelm her. To make a long story short, last month she was involved in an accident on her way to work in which she got clipped on her right, which somehow caused her to veer into the on-coming lane, and she clipped a car going the other way and ended up rolling her car! Luckily she wasn't seriously hurt, but I do wonder, if she was in a smaller car, would she have had a better view of her surroundings, and even perhaps had been able to maneuvre out of trouble.

    Even for myself, if I'm driving a large vehicle, I find that I devote so much attention to the size of the vehicle that I don't drive by natural reaction and instinct. I would be almost "thinking" my way down the road. And I think I'm actually more prone to accidents in that situation. I think it's like what they say about athletes --- that if they have to think about their next move, then they're in trouble.
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Wow, I'm glad your wife IS okay! Rolling the car....whew!

    I never test-drove the Prius, but I was given one as a "loaner" by BMW after a week of owning the Mini when I had to leave the Mini for a minor warranty issue. It was on a Friday, and the guy told me to keep the Prius over the weekend because they didn't get around to fixing my car. So I had this Prius for three days or so. That thing is a LOT of car! It looks bigger than the older-model Priuses (Priae?), and it just felt huge. Plus the rear visibility, as I recall, was really strange - it had a split window of some kind, and I had much more trouble parking it than even my old Volvo. And I recall I was sitting up way high in this thing, I guess that battery pack is under the seat or something, I don't know. There was just something not COMFORTABLE about it, at least for me.

    The Mini was the car for me when I bought it. I'm single, I drive around in it alone 90% of the time, and I use it to park around town, and you can't beat it for getting into those tiny parking spaces. I even feel better about the car since posting here. I guess none of us is really safe with these frigging SUVs out there. Gas prices here in California may hit $3/gallon by summer. Maybe they'll all trade in the Hummers for sometime smaller.
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    pinbeakpinbeak Member Posts: 1
    Greetings Shine,

    Having a number of years under my belt riding motorcycles, I find that the best protection is being aware of your surroundings. On a motorcycle you have such a small profile that many vehicles may not be aware of your presence. I feel the same way when driving my car. Make sure I can be seen in the mirrors, and if I have any concerns, drive defensively. It's become second nature, so I don't have to think my way down the road. Of course, it also helps to have a highly manuverable vehicle.
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    boraboraborabora Member Posts: 16
    7000miles. manual. nice color~
    lets rock!
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    boraboraborabora Member Posts: 16
    the 2003 mini has about 2 year left on warranty. as i know the maintainence is all covered by the warranty. can anybody tell me how it works?
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    It may vary from country to country, but in the US, Mini covers all scheduled maintenance for 3-yrs/36K, not the 4-yrs/48K warranty period.

    "All scheduleld maintenance" basically means that when the reminder system goes off on the dash (typically every 10K-12K), they'll do for free the maintenance as specified in the manual. Which is basically changing the oil every check and a few more things every other check. Since no car really gets into the meat of requiring a lot of maintenance in the first 36K, this doesn't amount to much.

    - Mark
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    ahlaynahlayn Member Posts: 1
    Hey Spidey,

    Where in Los Angeles did you find a dealer that will sell you the mini for MSRP?... I'm interested in buying one.. but i just dont know where to go to get it for MSRP. I went to a few dealers, and none of them are willing to settle for MSRP.

    Ahlayn
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    I'm looking to get a Mini and have checked out every single Mini dealership in the Los Angeles area... All are terrible.

    Universal Mini = nearly 4K mark up.

    Bob Smith Mini = 3k mark up.

    Nick Alexander Mini = 2k mark up.

    South Bay Mini = MSRP but at the cost of extremely rude service, poor selection and long wait.

    What am I supposed to do? I want a Mini. I always thought they were ugly and stupid cars until I actually sat in one and saw that they are quite roomy inside. I also loved the large windows that make for good visibility. Driving the Mini was fun too. In simple terms, we fell in love.

    I go home then and check their prices online and they are highly affordable cars but the dealers add extreme mark ups and refuse to work with you. You go to any other dealership and they beg you to take a car... At Mini, they really don't care which makes it hard to get the car and even harder to still want one considering their bad attitude.

    I drove all the way to Torrance today which was a heck of a ride with traffic to see South Bay's selection after finding out they have no mark up. Before driving out there I was talking with the manager through emails who contacted me... We get there and everyone is rude. The receptionist never looks our way. A sales man asked me if he could help me and I told him I been talking to Jennifer... He goes in to get her and comes back telling us that she is busy -- She doesn't even greet us herself to say she is busy or looks our way, and sipping on a Jamba Juice talking and laughing on the phone doesn't seem very busy to me.

    Of course the lot has no automatics except two basic convertibles (ugh, I hate convertibles) so I test drove the convertible just to make sure the trip wasn't wasted. And the entire time in the car he has this bad attitude like we are wasting his time. We then go inside to see how much the converitble would cost as there is a sign on them saying: $199 a month.. Turns out to get that $199 a month you have to lease with $6500 down... Crazy. That 6k down is money you never see again.

    The most I can put down is 3k which is already alot considering most other cars are only 1-2k down with lower payments than a Mini. My Mom has a 40k SUV that barely hits 400 a month with tax and only put down 1.5k... How the heck does a 28k car with 3k down become that much?

    At Nick Alexander for a 24k Mini it's $380 a month with 3k down for 4 years at 12k miles... Absurd.

    As much as I love the Mini it is becoming harder and harder for me to even think about getting one due to the rude service already at the dealers. At Nick Alexander and Bob Smith they aren't actually rude, certaintly not to the extreme as South Bay, but they surely do nothing at all to work with you which I don't really appreciate, but that is just the BMWness leaking over.

    I really would like to consider another car but the fact is there is no alternative to the Mini. What other car is only 143 inches in length? None. What other car offers the same variety in colors? None. What other cars sticks out in a crowd? None. What I love about the Mini and want more than anything is its small size and uniqueness. I can do without the unique look which is fading more and more here in Los Angeles, but the small size I want as well as the decent gas milage.

    I'm thinking of maybe ordering mine out of state too. I have a friend checking out the dealership in Albequerque NM. But I don't know about the other dealerships like the ones in TX -- How has everyone else gone about doing that? Just contacting the dealership either through phone or email, sending/faxing them your Mini spec sheet, going out there to pick it up or having them deliver it here? Because I would very much like to that.

    But I wanted to ask... Anyone here drive a base Cooper automatic? I test drove the auto in both S and basic but the basic is extremely sluggish and I hear nothing but bad things about the automatic transmission in the base -- Anyone have an experiance to share on that? Personally I don't care about the HP as I don't ever plan on going over 80 anyway but I do care about the acceleration and get up go which the automatic basic just doesn't have, especially when compared to the automatic S. Because going basic would make my search so much easier.

    I also wanted to ask: What packages/features are/are not nessecary? All I really want is the premium package in the S and in the basic sport/premium... Anyone care to share what they could've done without in either Cooper or could've used? Also, I keep thinking I need the $500 upgrade sound system, but do I?
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    IMHO the "best value" Mini is a S with no options for about $21K. The options are overpriced compared to the rest of the car and a base S does everything well. And it has the 16-inch wheels which are probably the best compromise between ride and handling. If you need the auto, then order it, but the car drives better with the manual.

    With the manual, the base can be entertaining and has adequate power. But the S is worth the extra.

    If you're willing to go out of state, give the dealers a call and most will be more than happy to put you in a car for MSRP. I went to Moritz in Dallas, but there are lots of them out therr selling for MSRP. It's not big deal - order the car, wait a few months, fly out to pick it up and drive home.

    - Mark
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    Good idea.. That's what I want to do as it sounds freaking fun! But at the same time it is really a much unneeded hassle. By the time I do all that I could just as well order one at Bob Smith and pay the 3k mark up which will be just as much as flying to Dallas, or wherever, travelling home and having to get the car all prepped up for CA's stupid requirments. Smog check and all that... Ugh.

    But even so, I would much rather spend 3k dollars on an adventure than having it go into some dealers pocket. lol, but my mom feels different about the adventure part except for the dealer in OK City as she is flying out there next month anyway.

    The only options I'm really wanting on an S is the premium package -- Steering wheel stuff, sun roof, AC/comp. Other than that the nicer headlights would be nice but I assume the standard ones are good enough, right? Same thing with the $500 sound system upgrade, standard is fine right? -- Whenever there is a possible upgrade I feel the standard isn't good enough unless I compare the two of them which isn't really possible with headlights and can be annoying for the dealer to go from car to car, lol.

    The only other thing I think may be nice is the DSC, but really... A car is only as safe as you drive it. If you drive it like an idiot no safety feature is going to keep you on the road. Looking at it like that I don't think I need the DSC, but it's supposed to help out in rain and snow -- I like to be prepared for the worse, lol.

    But really, all I really need is the premium package. Unless the standard sound system really isn't good enough.

    As for a manual transmission... I could learn to drive stick but really... My left hand is for eating or drinking in the car, not fiddling with some stick. Especially in LA with the stop and go traffic, would be a hassle to deal with.

    Honestly though.. You believe the S is worth the extra? Because right now it's between the tc and Cooper. The only thing that makes me want a TC over Cooper is the fact that its thousands cheaper and has a 6-CD changer with a name brand system, so no worry in lack of quality w/o some $500 upgrade. But I really do not want to give up the small size of the Mini or the uniqueness, which is becoming less and less of an issue every day as more and more are on the road.

    The other thing that makes me hold onto the Mini more so than the small size is the large windows. I love the large windows. It gives great visibility and doesn't make the back seat feel so confined like in other coupes. The Mini also drives fun and feels like an SUV as where with the TC.. You know you are in a car! And it's so overweight compared to the Mini.

    But because of the price I been thinking about the basic Cooper but it's so sluggish compared to the S. And the S really wouldn't be that bad if the dealers weren't such jerks about it in either adding outrageous mark ups if you order or their onlot cars having a ton of needless extras that bring the price super high.

    Tomorrow though I'm calling the dealerships in TX, NM, OK, AZ and NV to see what they have.

    Just out of curiousty, for everyone... Are you leasing or buying your Mini? And what type of downpayment did you put on it and what's your terms and monthly fees? If no one minds answering that I'll appreciate it so I know if I'm getting a good deal or not. I got quotes from two seperate dealers now and they are just outrageous compared to my Mom's 40k car and previous leases we had. And tomorrow I'm going back to Bob Smith to see what types of deals they can make on their pepper whites which I don't want -- White, ugh.. I want one of the fun colors.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    We just picked up our base Cooper with CVT yesterday. First to answer one of your questions, the CVT is somewhat sluggish off the line, as there is a bit of a lag and studder. But once rolling, it zips along pretty good. Definitely adequate for city driving. But if you're looking for really sporty acceleration, then the manual or the Cooper S is likely better.

    Something interesting from reading the owner's manual. Under the section describing ASC (All season traction Control) and DSC (Dynamic Stability Control), the EXACT same description of how they function is used for both. :confuse:
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    For me, the total cost of flying out and retreiving the car from TX to WA state was about $800 or so. Freq flyer miles got the ticket (but Southwest has great one-way fares), six nights in hotels, a few meals, and gas. It was one of the finest driving vacations I've ever had. I may get all my future cars this way just for the fun of a one-way driving trip.

    Dealers in high-demand markets are typically going to mark up and aren't going to go out of their way to get new customers. Nature of the beast. You don't have to buy the car if you don't want to.

    Honestly, you sound like you might be more happy with a TC. The TC doesn't drive as well, but if you're this annoyed by the Mini dealers now, you might be a lot more annoyed by them over the years. There is a "hassle factor" to Mini ownership that might drive you crazy - the car isn't as reliable and the dealerships are not as well established as Toyota's. Further, things like stereos and the like are simply done better on most Japanese cars. There produce a more polished and well-rounded package. Minis have rough edges and better suit owners who roll with the punch and just accept the rough edges as part of the experience. Reading between the lines, I think you might be bothered by the rough edges.

    - Mark
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    There is no room to "roll with the punch" when you consider the price of others cars in the class.

    You can go ahead and assume that reliability issues and lack of quality in certain areas are apart of some "experiance" but in the reality of it, you are fooling yourself to think so. A rough ride... Sure, the experiance. Lack of quality in sound... Not exactly what I would call the manufacturers intended experiance but instead their short-coming.

    Either way, I decided on a Mini that is expected to hit my dealership this week with a $1500 mark up. The adventure in going out of state sure does sound fun but I don't nessecarily have the time at the moment, right now it would be more of an unneeded hassle. There is also the hassle of getting the car smog checked and then possibly gaining additional fees.

    The dealers markup is 3k but the dealer was able to get us half of that... Same price I'll be paying if I go out of state and worth cutting the line I would have at East Bay (Or whatever that Torrance dealer is called) who are extremely rude.

    What other hassle factor are you talking about? Are you saying the Mini dealerships are rude or something when you bring your car in for repairs or check ups? I have a really close dealership next to my home, the Universal Minis -- anyone have any experiance there? I know my hair dresser bought a BMW and they were always rude to him when he would bring his car in for repairs.. Mini's aren't like that are they?

    And regarding reliability... What kinds of issues? I know one review I read about a family who had a Mini for 14 months had no problems at all with their Mini other then minor issues that I would probably be too lazy to take the car in for.

    As for my car now... It's an S with the premium package and audio upgrade. I would want the nicer headlights and seat warmers but I guess I could do without. My only other option is ordering which will probably have the full mark up and include a wait.. I'm good setteling with whats coming in. How is the A/C in the car? And is it good at warming up?

    And you drove it pretty far... How was it? I plan on driving my Mini cross country, will it hold up well?

    Also, does the sound, sound good? I mean, can hear a lack fo quality in your music at any time? To me, sound is sound. But after being in my Mom's car with a Bose system... Not always so.

    The only, only, only thing about the Tc that makes me think twice about the Mini is the fact that it has a 6-CD changer with known quality. On the Mini... One CD, which really sucks, and some brand I never heard of. But I do think I'm going to get the Ipod connector installed and buy an Ipod to put all my music -- Hate Ipods but getting an Ipod and the Mini accesory is cheaper than the 6 CD changer that goes into the back of the car, totally inconvenient.

    But I want the Mini. The 6-CD and lower price isn't worth the sacrifice of the Mini's smaller size, nicer drive or uniqueness. I also like the larger windows in the Mini as where in the Tc it's not so open.
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    hugh1hugh1 Member Posts: 8
    First, if gopguy means you are republican, you still seem like a very nice person.

    I commend you for considering going out-of-state. If everyone in high markup areas did that, there would be no high markups. Then maybe when you trade up in 07 or 08, the market in your area will have become competitive.The dealers in Indianapolis, Chicago, and Pittsburg all advertise no markup,msrp and low cost shipping. You can get their numbers on mini.usa.com and check them out.

    I have nothing against Japanese cars, it's just that they are so blah. I tried the Acura RSX, both engines, Honda SI, and Mazda 6 & 3. All seemed boring!

    Our MCS is due week of Apr 18. Ordered Mar 12. Solid black, Premium Package, armrest. Period. Opted out of the Harmon Kardon stereo. Sounded just ok, not $550 worth. If I absolutly cannot stand the standard stereo, I'll upgrade. Walking into any shop with $550, they'll welcome me with open arms. You could do just the sunroof for $850, skipping the auto air, onboard computer, and cruise control. Use that saving to pay part of shipping.

    I nixed sport pkg too. Actually a better ride on 16 inch tires and I personaly like the web design of the wheels vs. the 17 inch spokes that come with the Sports Pkg. Never could understand Xenon headlights. That bright glare they put out to oncoming drivers annoys the hell out of me. And why shoud I pay hundreds extra for something I can't see anyway.

    Options like limited slip differential are good for agressive drivers who want to maintain speed coming out of curves, but that's not me. I tend to do my speeding straight off the line and flat out!

    I hear that the leatherette holds up and looks nicer longer than the leather, which shows wear after 2 or 3 years.

    I wouldn't worry about bringing an out-of-state car back to the dealer...sounds to me like they'd be snotty either way. Besides, they get paid for warranty work by the home office, so they're not about to turn you away.

    Good luck whatever you decide...please keep us posted.
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    Omg.. Gopguy does indicate that I am a Republican. Finally someone who knows how to read screen names and what GOP stands for! =D

    Anyway...

    I'm getting a Cooper S automatic.

    Just after reading some of the discussion here and on the problems thread I'm getting a little scared that maybe a Mini might be more trouble than it needs to be. From what others have said regarding it's mileage, it sounds worse than the TC which takes regular gas... One of the high selling points for the mini, the supposed high gas milage.

    People also been talking about reliability issues with the Mini... Most have been from pre 05 models so I'm just assuming the 05s are pretty much good to go. For as many problems I hear of with the Mini I hear just as many good things... That one review about the 14 months them people owned their mini, they say it was very low maintenance.

    But regarding Japanese cars... I love them, especially since they are from Japan and S Korea -- My two favorite countries! But Asian made cars look bland. They drive good and do great things but they look like any other car on the street. I want something fun and unique -- Well not so unique in CA anymore, but when I go on my roap trips it sure will be. TBH, European cars are the same thing only have more problems and cost more to fix. I prefer Asian over European. But the Mini is a different story seeing how there is no Asian substitute for its small size.

    You know though, I wish Japanese and Korean car makers would bring the cars they actually sell in their countries over here as those would be the perfect substitute for the Mini, if the Mini truly is unreliable.

    Just worries me because most everyone I know who has owned a European car, especially BMWs, have had a ton of problems with their car being in the shop... And with the Mini I assume the possibility of those issues to be doubled. But I pray to God that my Mini is just fine and never gives me a problem as there are those out there with a Mini who never had any problems so. Also, we used to have VWs which never gave us problems so.
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    scminiguyscminiguy Member Posts: 3
    This is my first post after reading this website for over 2 years.

    I ordered an 03 Cooper, with premium and sport packages and CVT in August of 02. I waited over 4 months for it, and it was well worth the wait. To date I have had one problem which seems to be quite common on ALL MINI's...the cracked windshield. Luckily I lived in Florida at the time and had the glass replaced in my driveway with the better PPG brand glass for no charge (insurance covered it). The only out of pocket expense I have made (other than my mods) has been to replace the in-cabin charcoal a/c filter. If I had waited until Inspection 1 at 25,000 miles, it would have been done for free, but at 16,000 miles it was very dirty. So I forked over the $51.00 at BMW and did it myself. That's it.
    How's that for reliability? And my car was built on a Friday!

    The CVT is a unique transmission. It runs on a belt, not gears and a torque converter like a traditional tranny. Once you get past the break in period of 1250 miles, you can open it up some. It is really 3 different transmissions in one! I use sport and manual modes more now than ever before. It increases the "off the line" performance, but probably not as much as if you were driving a Cooper S. I find the acceleration acceptable; not lightning quick, but more than enough for the occasional get-up-and-go needed when merging onto a busy interstate. It all depends on what you are driving now (what you are coming from into a MINI) and what your style of driving is as to if the CVT is ok for you.

    As far as the stereo goes, I believe that the base stereo in MINI's is an Alpine. It is good enough for me, although if the H/K upgrade was available when I placed my order, then I may have considered it. But for $550 you can probably upgrade it at a high end stereo shop and get a better sounding package all-around.

    2 options that I cannot live without and STRONGLY suggest that everyone purchase are the MFSW and cruise control. They were included in the premium package. The only way you get the cruise is by upgrading the whole steering wheel to incorporate the radio controls on it as well. Has this changed any since 02? I'm not sure. It is great having radio controls at your fingertips and allowing you to keep your hands on the wheel at all times! For the occasional road trip the cruise control is a must. If nothing else it will improve your mpg in this day and age of record gas prices.

    Take the reliability stuff from mags like Consumer Reports with a large grain of salt. I subscribe to them and it seems that the only cars they recommend are the Japanese brands! The MINI is a unique automobile and I find that most owners are willing to live with the small problems (squeeks, rattles, etc.) in order to have a car that more than makes up for it in the fun factor.

    I wouldn't change a thing about my purchase, except maybe in getting Velvet Red instead of Indi Blue, had I known that VR would be so rare now. Why they discontinued either color is beside me.

    Good luck...it is a blast anyway you spec it out. :D
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I posted on the other thread that I find the CVT somewhat lurchy at slow speeds. Gopguyca said that's also his experience from test drives. Is that something that is common with the Mini CVT? Will it improve with mileage? There's also a lag when you tip into the throttle but I guess that's a byproduct of all CVTs.
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    scminiguyscminiguy Member Posts: 3
    When my car was new, it was a little lurchy, but not to the point that I returned to the dealer to have them look at it, as others have with the CVT. Once I was past the break-in period (1250 miles) it seemed to smooth out some. I have heard that the car "adapts" to your driving style. I am easy on the throttle anyway.

    I had software version 38.1 installed last November when the car was in for the recall and now it drives better. Now at 50-60 mph it revs lower in regular "D" mode. The dealer installed the software without my asking, so I was unsure of what to expect. I had always heard that if the car was running fine not to let them install any updates because it could mess things up. But I can say, at least in my case, that it was an improvement.

    Hope that helps. By the way, I get 28-29 mpg in mostly mixed driving (hwy/city, regular mode). I'm happy with that, as I get around 350 miles between fill-ups. :)
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    I can't believe there are Republicans driving Minis. And not using a spellchecker to boot. Gop, if your guy the Gropenator would just lose the Hummers and switch to Minis, his cred might improve just a tad.

    Gopguy, if you had considered the Bay Area, Hendrick Automotive in Pleasanton does not mark up. My experience with them was terrific, and I'm an inexperienced car buyer. They spent about 2 hours with me going over the car and explaining things the day I went to pick it up. They didn't seem rushed, and they used language I could understand and were open to questions.

    Since I only have 2,100 miles on my car, it's not even close to reaching a service visit yet, but based on my buying experience at this place, I'm sure my service will be fine. I bought all the bells and whistles - the heated seats, better stereo, sunroof, dimming rearview mirror (worth the price of admission), and steering wheel buttons. (I'm a vegan, so I draw the line at leather seats.) I bought an automatic, and I'm taking a driving course in two weeks (thanks, markjenn!) to learn how to drive this thing better and improve my confidence, as I'm a very inexperienced driver. You will also find the advice on this forum very helpful (and confidence-building!). Cheers!
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    I guess with the Mini that there are ups and downs... From what everyone says the Mini is only smart to buy if you got a dealer near by... Universal Mini is just minutes away and Bob Smith, where I'm buying, is just right down the 101 -- Not too far to take my car in to make sure I can get a loaner if kept for a while.

    Also, from reading professianal reviews and following discussions on this forum it seems everyone has contrasting experiances with the Mini -- Totally unreliable to not a single problem. I'm just going to pray for the best! Every car is subject to problems and no car is perfect.

    Another great thing that happened today... I test drove the Tc again and ugh... The car really does feel cheap and not as solid as the Mini. It drives nice and is silent -- unlike the Mini that is freaking loud -- but it doesn't feel as solid as the Mini. And the motor sounds in the Mini is something that makes the Mini unique... I don't believe the Mini was ever intended to be a luxoruy car, so it doesn't bother me.

    Also to note... The backseat of the TC is like a coffin. I rode back there for a few minutes when the dealer was getting the car off the lot and I thought I was going to suffocate. Sure there is more room in the back of a TC than the Mini but there isn't much window to look out of which makes you feel trapped. I rode in the backseat of a Mini and felt totally comfortable.

    So I'm happy to say that the Mini is definatly my first choice.

    My Mom also test drove them both today and hated the Mini, lol. She liked the TC's drive better but also noticed how cheap the tc felt compared to the Mini. The TC also feels like a car, you are low to the ground. As where in the Mini you feel a bit up higher and the visibility is so much better.

    Only concern right now is our dealer... They are expecting the car sometime this week but they are quoting us horrible prices. 5k down, 10k miles, 4 years... $361 with tax. Seems pretty high for a monthly payment with 5k down especially considering my mom's 40k dollar car that is just at 400 with tax with less than 2k down.

    Putting so much down on a lease is a total rip off, you never see that money again, right? I thought it's okay because it contributes to the price at the end of the lease if you choose to buy the car out -- which we plan on doing -- but from what I learned at the Toyota dealership... Not quite.

    So we are thinking of just buying it out with a bank loan but the problem is: The dealer's mark up is 3k, the dealer was able to get to $1500 thinking we are leasing.... If we say we are going to just buy it flat out, I'm scared they might give us the full mark up.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can go about getting our Mini for low monthly payments without losing too much?

    And Greyscale -- Yes there are Republicans who drive cute, adorable Minis that park easily. I can't wait to slap a Bush bumper sticker on my Mini's rear! =)

    I love SUVs, really do, but personally can't see driving one when it's only one person in the car. My Mom has an SUV and I NEED a car because I hate driving it with just me in the car -- Its so wasteful and we can't afford to keep gasing it up. I hate seeing huge SUVs on the road with only one person in it. At first I could understand because they're roomy, but the Mini is much smaller and is roomy inside for one-two people -- Even 4 on quick trips.

    Where is Pleasanton? I heard about them but after driving all the way to East Bay in Torrance to be terribly surprised.. I'm a little skeptical about driving so far to another dealer. But I think I'll call them tomorrow and see what they have onlot then give them a try sometime this week before seeing my Mini at Bob Smith... Just to compare prices. I really like my dealer at Bob Smith -- She is nice and patient with us but I do want the best deal. I feel with the quotes we got at Bob Smith that we are being ripped off.

    At East Bay they have 29k Coopers for $199 a month on a 2 year lease with 6.5k down.. How is 5k down on 4 years, 10k miles on a car priced lesser than 29k come up with such high payments? Somewhere we are being cheated, I feel.

    Oh also, what color is your Mini?
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

    Oh, another question. Do all Minis make that weird sound when you turn off the ignition --- kind of sounds like a computer shutting down?
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    I never paid much attention... I'll definatly have to look out for that next time I test drive.
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Gop, you are lucky I'm talking to you - I don't even know any Republicans, and I despise the monkey in the White House!

    There are much more experienced car buyers on this forum who can answer your questions. But for what it's worth, my Mini has had absolutely no problems mechanically. I bought a 2005 non-S model. I also paid cash for it, so I can't even speak to the loan issues. But I agree that you should be near a dealer with whom you have a good relationship. I'm just not having any of the little problems people seem to complain about with this car. I guess I just got a good one, or they were paying attention when they put it together. It all runs fine.

    I wouldn't get too hyped about the gas mileage in a Mini, either. I drive almost 100% in the city, and the mileage is pretty bad. I think it's better than a Hummer, however.

    Gop, I chose yellow for my car because I wanted a bright color due to the size. So far, it hasn't mattered much - I have been nearly sideswiped in my car twice already because of not being visible to other drivers, or aggressive drivers, or whatever. It doesn't matter, and I need to just be more confident about my skills rather than get bent out of shape about the SUV drivers.

    And for the record, every time the Gropenator comes to town, I'm at the protest! What a corporate shill Arnold is, huh? :-)
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    His Terminator movies were entertaining though! :shades:

    All joking aside, I do give him full credit for getting to where he is, in view of where he started from. The guy could barely speak English when he first came to America. (Well, ok, no doubt having Ms Shriver helped his political ambitions).
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    gopguyca, on the leasing vs. buying question, you're into standard car deal negotiation stuff here and there is a lot of information on this site. I'd become familar with all the terms (capital cost, money factor, residuals, security deposits, etc.); if you just go in to a single dealer and talk monthly payments, they'll find a way to make the payment, but you may get a terrible deal. IMHO, leasing is something best suited to a very experienced car negotiator as there are many more numbers to play with and the dealer has the drop on you. There are some people here on Edmunds in the "leasing vs. buying" forums who really know their stuff and will review the details of any deal.

    I think the whole idea behind leasing is to reduce upfront costs. So making a capital cost reduction is not generally a good idea. And if someone happens to the car or you have to break the lease, yes, you loose this money. I think it is always good to try and structure the deal so that your drive-away cost is a security deposit (refundable at the end of the lease), the inception fee (typically $500 or so), and the first month's lease payment. Try and get everything else into the total capital cost and distributed over the lease payments.

    In the LA area there are several Mini dealers. You really need to shop at least a couple to get a competitive bid. This is a brass-knuckles car negotiation and if you want the best deal, you've got to negotiate. Another reason to go out of state and just pay MSRP, but I understand that this is not always possible.

    If you don't want to get into this level of negotation, again, I recommend you reconsider the tC.

    - Mark
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    bodble, that IS a CD-ROM winding-down sound that you are hearing. I have it in mine too. I drive an automatic too, and I lurch a lot! :-D

    Hey, who knew Kindergarten Cop's "special interests" would include schoolteachers, cops, and nurses? Honest to God, I'm waiting for him to pull that corporate cash I.V. out of his arm. And I guess Mrs. Gropenator helped prep him for "public service," but it was Kenny Boy Lay, Enron, and Cheney who bankrolled it. But nobody wants to talk about THAT. Happy motoring! Don't get sideswiped!
    :-)
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    First off... I don't care for Arnold. He is just putting CA more into debt, we should've stuck with Davis -- At least in Davis' defense, he wasn't trying to force his ideal eating habits on the public as is Arnold.

    As for the Mini... How am I supposed to negotiate? We been to all the Mini dealers in the Los Angeles area and I'm about to call some up north and farther down south and also a few out of state... But the ones here, with their mark up: They don't care. I can tell them that other dealers give me this kind of deal but they won't respond. Minis are hot sellers right now, if you don't want to pay their mark up or take whatever deal they throw at you they don't care because they know someone else will take it. And you see that happening by visiting the dealer one day and then again the next.

    Toyotas, Infinitis and all them other cars... They do negotiate. They have other exact dealerships to compete with as well as other brands. But Minis? There is no substitue for the Mini and all the dealerships are unwilling to work with you, at least in the Los Angeles area.

    And I do like the yellow color. I like yellow, hyper blue, electric blue, red and green. I like them all too in either black or white... White tops make them look more cute as where black tops make them look more hot.

    But I'm thinking... By the time I pay that 15 hundred mark up at Bob Smith I can go to another dealer that goes by MSRP and make my own getting exactly the car I want for the same or lesser price. Just sucks because I'm going to have to wait so much longer and I won't be able to take the Mini into the dealer I bought from, meaning no loaner car. =(

    Also -- Is the gas milage really that bad?
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    greyscalegreyscale Member Posts: 22
    Sorry the experience has been so bad for you, gop. Just call East Bay Mini in Pleasanton. They are east of San Francisco, across the Bay Bridge. Everybody else is marking up, including Sacramento, Concord, and San Francisco. The guy who owns East Bay Mini (also called Hendrick Automotive) apparently believes that mark-ups are unprofessional and unnecessary (according to the sales people there). I have a friend who bought his BMW there, and he has also had really good service there, so you might also have a good experience in buying.

    When I first decided to get a Mini, I was in Sacramento with a friend, and we stopped off at Niello there to ask about buying. The sales guy (some Gen-X guy wearing sneakers, a T-shirt, and jeans) acted like we were wasting his time. In response to our question, "Since you are marking up, can you think of any reason why we would buy here instead of another place?" was just a blank stare. I can't believe this car is still that popular. It's ridiculous. Don't pay a mark-up and line these guys' pockets, even if they ARE Republicans.
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    SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Let's stay on topic and no politics. Thanks!
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    gopguycagopguyca Member Posts: 30
    I called Pleasanton earlier today... No S automatics coming in, they only take orders -- Cool, I like that. But with a 10 month waiting list.

    I also called several other Mini dealers in CA and they all are mark ups or super long waiting lists.

    I have three options:

    1) Get the 26,600 Mini at Bob Smith with $1,500 mark up.

    2) Order one from Las Vegas Mini and get it within 6-8 weeks, no mark up.

    3) Order one from Oklahoma City Mini with no mark up and get it in 6-8 weeks, hopefully by the time I go up to visit my Grandparents.

    Basically.. Wait or get it now. Waiting means I get exactly the car I want, not to say I'm unhappy with the one I'm getting now. Not waiting means I get the car now.

    I don't mind waiting as I'm not impatient -- I'm an actor, lol -- but doesn't it cost more to bring a car in from out of state with registering it and all? I'll also have to do a smog check and hope the car passes or pay that too.. By the time I go through all that, plus the cost of waiting and going out of my way, wouldn't it be the same price to pay the mark up? I'm not really sure which is why I'm asking.

    Also... If I buy a car out of state or up state.. I won't ever get a loaner when I bring my Mini in for check ups or repairs. If I buy at Bob Smith and know my Mini is going to be in the shop for a while I can drive up there and get a loaner. Otherwise I have Universal Mini next to my house. But if I buy out of state I won't ever be able to get a loaner as that'd be way too far to go to for check ups, lol.

    I really wish Pleasanton wasn't so backordered as I always wanted to visit San Fransico and it would've been the perfect honeymoon for my Mini and I to visit there together. And also Napa Valley. But I guess I'll just stick to Branson, MO for our honeymoon.
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    gop, there is no "smog check" or any rigamrole on getting a new non-CA Mini registered in CA. Every Mini sold in the US is 50-state legal. You buy it at the other dealer (typically without paying any sales tax), get a temp tag, drive it home, walk into the CA DMV with the paperwork, pay sales tax and registration fees, and walk out with your plate. If you do have to pay sales tax at the out-of-state dealer, you typically get credit for this sales tax on CA's sales tax, but I'd encourage you to find a Mini dealer in a state that doesn't charge sales tax to someone buying from out-of-state. For example, when I bought my MCS in Texas, I paid a flat $100 for my temp tag and all doc fees. It was MSRP+$100 for the full OTD price. (Of course, when I got home it cost me nearly $2K to get the car registered but I would have paid the same if I had bought the car locally.)

    Having it shipped to you is another option, but I've always been very nervous about sending $25K to a stranger in another state and hoping an undamaged and properly set up new car rolls off a flatbed a couple weeks later. If you go pick the car up you can at least give it a cursory inspection before money changes hands (I recommend you have a round trip air ticket), and extra shipping always raises additional risk of damage. Having said this, many do this and have absolutely no problems.

    The loaner car issue is a real one, but you might make calls to the service depts you plan on using - despite what the salesman says, many service depts. provide loaners to all their customers, not just ones that bought new cars from the dealership. They want your business whether you bought there or not. Or they may have a priority system where buying customers get them first, but with some timing flexibility, you can get one also. Keep in mind that if you're talking routine service, it typically is easier just to hang out at the dealer for an hour or two while they do the work. The first service at 10K is basically an oil change.

    Service depts are almost like separate business entities at dealerships. The sales people like to weld them together and give the impression that you get better service if you buy at the dealership you plan on using for service, but there really isn't much coupling. You can almost consider the decisions about where you buy and where you service to be completely independent.

    - Mark
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