Infiniti G35 Sedan 2006 and earlier

bluetentacle

How about an 8-speed automatic transmission that shifts accurately and instantaneously AND if you so desire, can be manually controlled with a paddle shifter?

The new Japanese Skyline 350GT-8 is such a car.

The new Skyline 350GT-8 is now available.
New features include:

-8-speed Extroid CVT
-Paddle shifter for manual shifting
-Aluminum-accented brake and gas paddles
-Some other improvements I don't quite understand.

FYI, Nissan's Extroid CVT is the most advanced CVT ever made. Instead of a fragile belt or a chain, the Extroid CVT relies on two metal discs to adjust the gear ratio. This system can handle much more powerful engines than other designs.

Looks like it'll come in new paints too.

The information is on Nissan's Japanese Skyline page.

Conclusion: Keep your money until this version hits our shores!

riez

rezo00... The automotive press has pointed when high performance sport sedans lack a manual transmission. That is why cars like the 540iM and 530iM test out so well, esp. against their automatic peers.

Of course the G35 SHOULD outperform an I-35 on most tests. But if you aren't looking for the type cutting edge performance you can get from manual transmission and LSD, then the differences between automatic G35 and I-35 won't likely be that substantial to you, esp. if you don't drive either hard. It's not a silly question, not when people who supposedly are buying a serious all around sport sedan are lining up in favor of the slushbox!

We are talking 4-door sedans. The 4-door G35's peers are other sport sedans! 'cause that is the only way you can get the G35 initially. I can't wait for the 2-door to arrive. But I will then compare it to other 2-door cars. And I'm not trying to compare the G35 to super-high performance models in a line up (e.g., M5 or M3). Though I do hope Infiniti adds a really spicy version of G35!

What is so hard to understand that nearly all serious all around sport sedans EXCEPT the G35 have a manual transmission model somewhere in the line up? That is a flaw for the G35. One Infiniti planned to address from before the beginning, but an odd choice to delay. All we are talking about is providing CHOICES that allow different buyers to appreciate and buy a particular model. That is why most models are part of a model line up. That is why the BMW 3 Series has 12 different models in the US market.

anoonan

the other thing these people forget who are trying to push others to the I35...the G35 is a heck of a lot better looking than the I35, IMO! Don't looks count anymore, either? I ordered one because of looks, HP, the whole package. THe auto transmission wasn't a deal breaker for ME. Would be nice, but I'm not going to cry about it.

mvargo1

What hurt the IS300 sales was not the lack of a manual trans. It was the fact that the car was too small, to overdone, and too Toyota, for your average Lexus buyer. It is not like the G35 is never going to have a manual trans. 6 months never killed anyone. Besides that is when the coupe comes out. Get over it 90% of US consumers want the auto trans, so that is what is coming out first.

blueguydotcom

It's aimed at the BMW crowd, who purchase manuals in close to 50% of their 3 series cars. Autos are popular among the Camry/Accord/Taurus set, not people who like to drive.

The IS300 WAS hurt by lack of a manual, just as the CL/TL line was. Why do you think Honda is finally adding a 6 speed to their ugly, boring CL? Because without the manual, half of the BMW 3 series buyers won't even look at the CL. Not that they should anyway. The same was true of the IS300. With the auto the car just wasn't fun. Lexus finally introduced a manual on the IS300 due to pressure from the target market.

ateixeira

I'm not sure I agree. Even with an auto the IS300 was fun.

Then again, I was wringing it around the cones at Edmunds Live a couple of summers ago. Not my car, driven at the limit, so yes, very fun! Better than the 323i automatic, IMHO.

They only had autos there.

-juice

corkfish

I'd be willing to bet that the number of BMWs with automatic transmissions outsell the manuals by at least two to one. I was shocked when I heard the number of Maximas with automatics outsold the manuals by a huge margin ( I thought hey, this is a performance sedan). Maybe someone can find the actual figures.

bobbyknight

"The IS300 WAS hurt by lack of a manual, just as the CL/TL line was. Why do you think Honda is finally adding a 6 speed to their ugly, boring CL?"

Um, sorry you're wrong. I would say that the CL/TL line was a runaway success by all accounts all WITHOUT a manual. Can't say the same for the IS so that would mean that the problem with the car lay elsewhere. If Acura wanted to substantially boost sales of the CL then why would they only offer 2700 of them for '03, it's because demand is not that high.

lsc

I don't know about the CL, but the TL didn't need any help selling w/o the manual.

Acura is adding the 6-speed finally because it's competition has manual transmissions.

Here is the difference and it's a big one. Honda/Acura make the best manual transmissions so the one you'll see in the CL/TL will be a great enhancement to the drivability of the car.

Nissan/Infiniti on the other hand make the best V-6 engines but only good automatics and manual transmission that are less than stellar. If the manual is as bad as the ones in the Altima/Maxima/Sentra, why even want one?

I personally think if you want a manual transmission sports sedan, then buy one from a company that makes one.

Some of you who post on this board may not buy the G35 w/o the manual but it's a small minority.

rezo00

or just wait a year and buy the manual when it comes out. what if it dosent come out you say? well then there wasent a demand for it, so go buy something else and stop whining. A rear wheel drive auto drives quite different from a fwd auto also. And besides tiptronic and SMG is the future. They even have a SMG on the M3. And it shifts a lot faster then a person because its set up like a manual trans but with a computer controlled hydrolic lever doing the work. Bottom line if they dont offer it in manual and you dont like it, then go buy something else or wright to nissan, but otherwise we should be done with such a silly topic.

hicaira

Blueguy, corkfish and riez:

if you want some real data (not your own opinions) as to what % of BMW's are sold with auto vs manual trannies, just go to BMW's website and look at the certified inventory.

I live in LA, where BMW's are about as common as Camrys, and a check of sedans (using various zip codes and various miles from zip) yielded about 80% autos and 20 % Manuals. In the Wagon, it was 100% autos in the 5 series, and 98% autos in the 3 series (hey, I rounded, since I only found a single one). The numbers get closer with a search of the coups and converts. With those it is about 60% autos and 40% manuals. 'Course, the inventory of coupes and converts is only about 25% of the total 3 series inventory, even when I added Nor Cal zip codes. In the end, it looks to be about 75% autos and 25% manuals for all 3 series BMW's sold in CA. Numbers drop to about 85% autos and 15% manuals when the search is for 5 series. Try your own search for your zip and see if you find much of a difference.

So let's stop kidding ourselves, OK? Infiniti is going where the money is and that money is in Auto trannies. When they introduce the manual, all the auto mags will drool over it and wax prophetic but in the end, the manual will be introduced not for massive increases in sales, but for image and press.

I'm still willing to wait. Besides, the first year bugs will be worked out too....

HiC

gandhim3

I have sat in the IS300 at various auto shows, and the interior quality fit and finish left a LOT to be desired. My 2000 MY Toyota Camry has better quality plastics and cloth seating then what was in the IS300.

That is why the IS300 is a flop. They have the wrong product for their target market. Or put another way, it is overpriced for the market to which the IS will appeal to.

As for the whole manual vs. auto debate - patience is a virtue.....

riez

hicaira... I went CPO route recently. I had no trouble locating manual transmission 3 Series and 5 Series.

Percentage of BMWs sold automatic versus manual HAS to be broken down by model. You cannot buy a manual 7 Series. So those models which don't offer a manual aren't part of the equation. The percentage of manual transmission buyers is very significant for 3 Series. Also for Ms. Does well with 540i.

BMW and others likely have the data. I'll keep an eye out for an article in Roundel, Bimmer, and European Car. Your methodology could be flawed. Maybe people who buy automatics are less satisfied and tend to hold them for shorter period of time and thus there are more at any given time? I don't plan on getting rid of my 540iM until 2006/7. Want a CPO 2004 M5!

ateixeira

The shifters in the latest Sentra Spec V and Altima 3.5 SE did feel notchy to me. But older sticks in the Maxima felt fine. Nissan is capable, we'll have to wait and try it.

Every one has a unique opinion, but what keeps me away from the IS300 is the tiny back seat. It's really a 2+2. Bimmers have the same problem, but to a lesser extent. The G looks positively commodious in comparison.

Lexus is smart, though. There may be small volumes, but it's selling at a price point that surely brings in profits. Plus it allows the ES300 to focus on pampering its drivers.

-juice

hvan3

This arguement of manual vs. auto is so ridicoulos. The fact of the matter is that consumers are putting their money where their mouth is. Consumers want AUTO! It is safe to say that at least 90% of total sales are AUTO. Car manufacturers are responding to market demand. Plain and simple!

If Nissan/Infiniti has a limited number of resources (cash), they should pursue a ROI strategy that best fit their business plan. Why add numerous $$ into auto AND manual during the first production year? That's too much risk to take on. Imagine trying to recoup the losses on both manual and auto if the G35 is a total flop!! Now look at the IS300. Sales are still falling despite the introduction of the manual. Do you actually think the IS300 manual can save this pitiful boy racer car? Base on riez's arguement, the entire world evolves around "manuals". LOL

The arguement of BMW has so and so percentage of manual drivers is also ridicolous. Who cares!! If I plan to buy a BMW for $36K, I prefer a manual not becuase I'm a "hardcore", shift happy driver. It's because I can save about one grand on the manual. HOw's that for an arguement?

As for the G35, I would prefer auto. However, I get more bang for the buck if I choose the manual because I can probably save at least $800 on my purchase. At the end, the bottom line is how much you are willing to pay for a car (with or without a manual).

Some of you need to GET OVER IT! G35 will NOT have a manul during the first production year. It's a fact! You are beating a dead horse here.

bobbyknight

It shouldn't be any extra cost for nissan to release the manual, because if it is the one used in the new Z, Nissan already paid for the development costs. Its just a matter of fitting it in the car.

hvan: I'm with you on this one buddy!

ateixeira

That's only true if they have enough time to back off on production of the manual, but I doubt that's the case. So they'll waste R&D cash anyway.

The press has a huge influence on buyers, with the public buying into 0-60 times (real world or not, it doesn't matter, perception is reality). With the auto, they'll be unremarkable, and attract little attention. The 6 speed from the get-go would post fantastic numbers and draw much needed attention.

The IS example you cite supports my argument, BTW.

First impressions mean a lot.

-juice

ateixeira

Example: couple is reading Car & Driver (biggest circulation in the USA) and sees the G35 takes 7 seconds to reach 60. The guy says "that's slower than my Bimmer" and the decision to ignore it has already been made.

By the time the manual is offered, with maybe a mid-5s 0-60 time (quicker than the already impressive Altima), the same guy might have said "wowee, honey, time to trade in the Bimmer".

-juice

68bullitt

QUOTE: hvan3 wrote: "As for the G35, I would prefer auto. However, I get more bang for the buck if I choose the manual because I can probably save at least $800 on my purchase."

I certainly hope that will be the case. Nissan better not pull a fast one on us and charge MORE for the manual version. There are cars out in the market in which the manual versions cost more than the automatic versions. Those that come to mind include the Corvette, BMW 540i, and Nissan's own new 350Z with Luxury Pkg.

Please listen up Nissan: Manuals should be cheaper than automatics. OK?

bobbyknight

A 1.5 second difference from 0-60? Not very likely. Plus, the G35 will probably have a 0-60 time in the mid-sixes, and I think that would be conservative.

I'm sorry, but you stress 0-60 times way too much. Price, style and image will have much more of an effect on the buying public.

"That's only true if they have enough time to back off on production of the manual, but I doubt that's the case. So they'll waste R&D cash anyway."

-I don't follow

blueguydotcom

<<Um, sorry you're wrong. I would say that the CL/TL line was a runaway success by all accounts all WITHOUT a manual. Can't say the same for the IS so that would mean that the problem with the car lay elsewhere. If Acura wanted to substantially boost sales of the CL then why would they only offer 2700 of them for '03, it's because demand is not that high. >>

It's not about sales, it's about perception and Honda's quest to truly take market share and critics hearts from BMW. Every auto reviewer laments the fact that the CL lacks a manual because without a manual the car is just a poseur. Actually with FWD, it's still not a legit competitor to the BMW.

jmess

I welcome the demise of the manual in favor of the auto manual and don't care if I ever own another manual sporty car again. Infinty was right on for putting the manual on the back burner where it belongs. The current generation boxes aren't guite perfect but are close enough for a daily driver. If you look at the new automanual on the M3, now you are talking.

When I buy a new car I want better technology. The good old days were good but they are old and gone. Let technology rock. I say let the computers handle the mundane mechanical tasks while I push the button. I would rather be taping my left foot to the sound of the sterio than pushing in a stupid clutch. BMW claims the M3 auto/magic box can shift faster than the best test driver they have anyway.

bobbyknight

I GUARANTEE that the manual will be as much or more than the auto. The maxima's manual is a no cost option. The 5-series manuals come with the sport package, so that may make up the difference.

I don't get it either.

bobbyknight

People like shifting their own gears, I included. I don't know if I would like the new auto-manuals, never driven a car with it but I think I would rather do it myself.

bobbyknight

I agree its mostly image, but Honda is good at giving the enthusiasts what they want. Also, the six-speed in the CL puts the focus back into a two year old design, gives it a more lasting appeal.

It may be smart for nissan to wait a couple of years to intro an improved(HP?) version of the G with a manual. Who knows?

blueguydotcom

You're all missing the point. Many people in here probably won't get a manual G35, but the fact is, without a manual for the mags to test the G35 will get lousy press and a reputation for being a good value but not a legit contender when matched against the true holy grail of the entry level market: BMW 3 series.

The 01 and 02 CL may sell well to the people weaned on Hondas and FWD cars but to an enthusiast, the CL is a joke. To car mags, it's a joke. Honda saw that they could get better press with a manual, just like Lexus realized with its IS300. It doesn't matter if 85% of entry level lux buyers get the auto, what matters is the press and their sway over buyers.

BTW, the VERY unscientific approach of checking inventory on BMWs proves NOTHING. If you knew about Bimmers you'd realize a great percentage of buyers ORDER the cars equipped to their specifications. BMW buyers are not the drop-in and buy on Sunday types that populate the Acura/GM/Ford dealerships. Call a BMW dealership and ask about how many 3 and 5 series are ordered v. bought right off the lot. Then ask about the manuals ordered v. bought off the lot.

The only reason I'm familiar with this, I looked seriously into getting a 5 speed BMW, but worried about electrical problems plaguing my friends M3s and other 3 series cars.

hicaira

What's not to get? Where is it written that a high volume auto tranny has to cost more to manufacture than a low volume 6 speed manual? It's all in the numbers and manufacturing costs. If only 10% of the cars have a manual, then the cost-per-unit is higher (since all the R&D, design, machining, retooling and testing costs are amoritized across fewer sales). If it costs Nissan the same (or more) to give you a manual, then why should they charge less for it? Unless the Z has enough manual sales to bring up the total volume of 6 speeds sold, I expect no discount. "No-cost option" is about as much as I can hope for.

HiC

ateixeira

Altimas are taking around 7.1-7.3s, and the better times for manuals are under 6 seconds. It may vary less (or more, with a 6 speed), but it makes a big impression.

I was saying that they will not save money if they cancel manual production at the last minute. They've already done all the R&D by then.

Thank you, blueguy, for saying what I was trying to say a little more succintly.

-juice, with 3 manual tranny cars parked in my driveway

bobbyknight

Thanks for the lovely econ lesson, but you have to open your eyes and realize that Nissan is not developing the manual tranny for America only. Think about other markets where manuals are the norm, like europe for instance. You also have to realize that the manual will most likely be from the Z, where most of those will be manuals (I hope). So therefore the manuals costs will be spread over the other markets. In addition, manuals are much less expensive to produce and design than a traditional automatic. I guarantee you that the manual cars will have a higher margin, they are just not passing the discount on to the consumer.

bluetentacle

So nobody's interested in the new paddle-shifting CVT?

The CVT can match a manual in acceleration except at the get-go.

hvan3

<<The 01 and 02 CL may sell well to the people weaned on Hondas and FWD cars but to an enthusiast, the CL is a joke. To car mags, it's a joke.>>

Says who? You or the media? As far as I know, who cares what you or the media thinks! Acura is doing a very good job selling TL/CL. They have the sales number to prove. The prove is in pudding.

By the way, how can an "enthusiast" enjoy his BMW if it's sitting at the dealership waiting for a warranty repair?

maybeg35

It's old news on here actually.

blueguydotcom

To people who think leather and FWD somehow equal performance, the CL is a great car. Nobody has claimed the CL/TL sales are poor, only that the reception by enthusiasts is less than lukewarm. Honda is like the McDonald's of the car world, it builds boring cars that appeal to a wide swath of a really broad demographic. Nothing wrong with that. Good business.

Thankfully, Nissan has an eye toward making something with a little verve. Personally, the styling of the G35 is still staid when compared to the chiseled lines of the 3 series or the elegant curves of a C class or A4. But Nissan's at least giving drivers the first key to fun while driving: RWD. Add in the 6 speed and good things seem possible.

bluetentacle

I too knew that they were coming out with CVT for a long time, but the paddle-shifters are new. Just thought that this would generate some excitement.

BTW, Town Hall's search function stinks.

b4z

The advantage that manuals have over autos in acceleration starts to disappear as the engine dispalcement and torque rise.
The G35 auto will probably accelerate pretty well due to it 260 lb ft of torque and where it occurs in the rev band.
If you look at the 0-60 times for the Camaro SS and the Corvette you will find the difference in 0-60 times is within a few tenths of each other when comparing the auto and manual.
Also there used to be weight and cost savings when going with a manual. The Tremec T56 weighs almost as much as a auto. Cost also go up with the 6 speed.
The Caddy CTs is lighter with the 5 speed manual. But i bet if you put a 6 speed in there the weight savings would be minimal.
Nissan does need to lower its first gear ratio on the auto though.

lsc

The G35 looks like it'll do very well even w/o the manual. And for the people that are willing to wait, that's actually great news for Infiniti since they'll have buyers waiting in line when the 6-speed comes out and not have everyone fighting over the G35 in March.

pat

No kidding! :-)

But sometime down the road, it is supposed to improve. Web Crossing is (again) revising it, this time to make it possible to search within discussions with usable results.

I know how you feel, believe me!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

68bullitt

Driving a manual is just more fun, plain and simple. I doubt many would argue with that. There are things you can do with a true manual which you just can't do with an auto-manual. Such as: pushing the clutch in while going downhill to let gravity take over to move you and save gas or releasing the clutch just at the right time while downshifting around a turn or revving the engine and then popping the clutch to get a jump start from a light, etc., etc. These sort of things make driving a stick much more fun and intersting than an auto which to me tends to be boring and monotnous. It's the difference between you driving the car and the car driving you. Besides, I like the feel of that stick in my hand. Forget paddles

hvan3

<<Besides, I like the feel of that stick in my hand. Forget paddles>>

Well, some people have better use with the other hand. LOL

gandhim3

Blueguydotcom wrote -

"Honda is like the McDonald's of the car world, it builds boring cars that appeal to a wide swath of a really broad demographic."

Actually, I think you have Hondas confused with Toyota. Non one makes more generic, uninspired and unoriginal cars than Toyota. I should know, because there are three of them in my drive way.

That WILL change next year when the 6-speed manny G35 comes out!

keyrow

True enthusiasts, those of us who drive for more than just getting from point A to point B, will NEVER accept a slushbox regardless of what type it is (CVT, automan, or otherwise). Just because 90% of Americans are lazy appliance drivers does not mean manual transmissions should be eliminated/ignored by car manufacturers altogether.

When we bought new cars I would not consider anything that did not offer a manual, whereas my wife, being one of the "Great Unwashed Masses," couldn't care what the car is/does as long as it gets her to her destination in reasonable comfort. Although I had my heart set on an M5 we compromised: she got the I30 appliance and I bought a Lincoln LS manual. I will await the arrival of the G35 with a manual later this year, but if it never appears my money WILL go elsewhere.

I'm sorry but I just do not understand why anyone would want a sport sedan with an Auto tranny. Why worry about how well the G35 handles if you are never going to go anywhere near its limits? Might as well settle for any one of the myriad appliances out there since that is precisely what they are designed for. Sport Sedan + Auto = For Appearances Only. Can you say, "Yuppie Scum?"

riez

1. 68bullitt... I couldn't agree more! For those of you who don't know how to drive a stick or gave up on it, you really are missing a lot of driving fun and excitement. (I understand if you live in NY, LA, or Chicago and experience a dreary bumper-to-bumper/stop-and-go commute daily. There an automatic makes more sense.)

2. Many manufacturers put their manuals with a lot of other performance/sport equipment. BMW 540iM comes with the Sport Pkg standard. That adds couple thousand to the price but BMW makes a marketing statement. The 540iA buyer has to order Sport Pkg and then shell out thousands, too. Why put a 6-speed in a V-8 RWD car unless it is to make a performance statement?

3. We'll never know about unit costs. Many manufacturers buy their transmissions from Getrag, ZF, and others. Heck, BMW uses General Motor's European 5-speed automatic. But those same tranny makers are selling their trannys worldwide to lots of possible buyers. Wouldn't surprise me if GM Europe sells the tranny cheaper to BMW than to Cadillac (the new CTS). And the transportation costs favor BMW. GM has to ship the units from Europe to USA for assembly. BMW just rails them to Germany.

4. I can't wait to read the performance comparision statistics for the I35 Sport and G35 automatics. Motor Trend published I35 Sport figures in November 2001. Guessing the I35 Sport would meet the needs of most people here whose desire for performance isn't sufficient to warrant a manual transmission? Doubting you'd drive either car hard enough to put it to a test.

I35 Sport numbers: 0-60 mph in 7.0 seconds, 15.3 quarter mile at 91.5 mph, 60-0 braking in 125 feet, and 62.4 mph on their 600-ft slalom.

68bullitt

Even though I live in the land of stop and go traffic (Bay Area CA) I'd still rather have a manual than an auto. (The commute on 101 is loads of fun, ain't in? Not!!) :-)

68bullitt

For those of you that like driving sticks, make sure to watch the movie "Ronin" if you haven't seen it yet. The main chase scene is just awesome! You can really appreciate how that girl shifts the stick in that 5-series BMW. You'll notice the high-pitched sound of the engine suggests a small displacement engine being kept at high RPMs and within the powerband throughout the entire chase by her skillful downshifts. Probably a Euro spec 520i. How come more American women don't drive sticks? I think it's a real turn-on.

bobbyknight

"Honda is like the McDonald's of the car world, it builds boring cars that appeal to a wide swath of a really broad demographic. Nothing wrong with that. Good business."

That has to be one of the most rediculous statments I have ever read. If anything, Nissans the one that came up short on performance for the last decade(forget the Z). Talk about boring cars, what about the sentra or the 200SX, altima, or even the 240SX and the Maxima? I would say that Nissan could be described as the "Japanese Pontiac" because lately many of their cars are just blatently overstyled, look at frontier, xterra and the Sentra SE-R and tell me they're not Japanese Pontiacs.

On the flipside, how can you call the prelude or the Civic Si boring or even the Integra and NSX? Give me a break.

riez

68bullitt... Watch 50s and 60s films in which classic beauties like Bridgette Bardot, Raquel Welch, Gina L., Catherine D, and others drive manual transmission cars! Was the actress Honor Blackmun (playing P. Galore) driving a stick while racing Bond in Goldfinger? The brunette (F.J.) who raced Bond in Goldeneye? Find a beautiful woman who can drive a stick and knows how to put the car thru its paces and you have found a true goddess! Forget about women smoking or wearing stockings, a woman driving aggressively while rowing a stick is truly beautiful sight! Too bad my wife can't drive a stick. But I still love her, very, very much.

cybersol

I don't want an I35 with sport, I want a G35 with an automanual. Most of the time I want convenience, and some of the time I want to have lots of fun. The G35 will have better launches with the RWD and 5 speed. It will have WAY better handling with the suspension in the skyline.

"I35 Sport numbers: 0-60 mph in 7.0 seconds, 15.3 quarter mile at 91.5 mph, 60-0 braking in 125 feet, and 62.4 mph on their 600-ft slalom."

Look for G35 auto numbers: 0-60 mph in 6.2-4 seconds, 14.0-8 quarter mile at 95-100 mph, 60-0 braking in 115-20 feet, and 65-8 mph on their 600-ft slalom. I can't wait for the reviews to come out.

Sounds fun even in an auto, cheaper or better than all the competition.

dg95

"Honda is like the McDonald's of the car world, it builds boring cars that appeal to a wide swath of a really broad demographic. Nothing wrong with that. Good business."

Actually, that statement is not far off the mark.
Nissan has always been the Japanes brand that has dared to be a little different, while Honda has stayed as close to the main stream as they could, even with the introduction of Acura. Not to say that this is a bad strategy, Honda has weathered every storm, and has prospered by staying out of the niche markets, while Nissan had thrived there. Well, that is before they tried to go too mainstream like Honda and Toyota in the mid-nineties. To say that Nissan has more personality in their cars is a gross understatement. This is actually no contest. Nissan was producing classic sports cars before Honda was building anything over 2 liters of displacement (and I'm not talking lawn mowers). But I will leave the Z out of this discussion just to try to make this one interesting. I have owned 2 Maxima's, one a '92 SE with the 190 HP DOHC heart and the other a '96 SE. Both were 5 spd's, and both were great automobiles. The automotive press loved these cars - they were enthusiast vehicles. I don't think Honda is even familiar with the term. Nothing that Honda has ever produced, nor Acura for that matter, save the TL-S, has ever compared to the Maxima. Even the Legend, Honda's flagship, lacked the steering feel, power, audio system, and all around style and flavor that the Max. posseses. And the Vigor, f'get 'bout it! Yeah, Nissan has been down in the dumps recently, but the Max has still been called the poor man's 5-series BMW. I don't think that comparison has ever been made of a Honda product. Honda has still yet to produce a V-8. Talk about a great car with personality, the original Q was a true lxury-performance sedan.
And styling, I penned better looking, more distinctive cars in kindergarten.

Well with the G35, and the new Altima, it seems that Nissan is back making great cars with distinction again (another term that Honda is unfamiliar with). Come to think of it, with this one car, Nissan has produced a vehicle more compelling than anything Honda has come up with in over a decade. Remember the 4DSC, well it's back.

If you want a simple (yet good, mind you) burger and fries, go to McD's. If you want simple practical transportation, get a Honda. If you want something with a little more flavor, I strongly recommend a Nissan. Over 60 billion served is it? Now there's a mark of distinction!

rezo00

I really dont care what "real enthusiests" want due to the fact that real enthusiests drive spoirts cars, not sedans of any type. Or better yet sports bikes, a he ll of a lot faster then any car.
I can see why you like stick shifts, of course Im only intrested in my girlfriend doing that for me. All this talk about how great "ronin" is makes it sound even more fishy. Or maybe less fishy and more silly depending on your perspective.

bobbyknight

"Even the Legend, Honda's flagship, lacked the steering feel, power, audio system, and all around style and flavor that the Max. posseses."

Audio system?, that's a good one!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Maxima is just plain white bread. Red gauges and seats, huge wheels and spoilers don't equate to "distinction".

Back to the G35