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Comments
I don't believe these have been posted yet.
Didn't Cadillac do the same thing, not allowing anyone to drive a CTS even if they were already at the dealer until after January 2?
It's gonna piss me off, too, but that's what my salesman told me. I asked him to clarify and he said that Infiniti's official "launch date" was March 15. They did not want any G35s "sold and driven off the lot" prior to then. I pressed him as to when I could test drive it, and he was kinda vague. This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I really don't know if he know's what the hell he's talking about. I do have two other dealers in my area-I'm not married to this one. I fully expect to drive this car within the next two weeks. I'm expecting to be impressed...
Remember the Dodge Omni GLH?? A horrible little car - to be honest - but it was FAST. [thanks to a 2.2 litre turbo] The GLH - itself - didn't sell all that well - but the sale of the plain old boring OMNI DID. In fact - sales of the basic OMNI [and Plymouth Horizon] increased significantly AFTER Chrysler 'introduced' the GLH. WHY?? Because suddenly - it was 'OK' to be SEEN in an 'OMNI'. [at least for a few months!! lol] 'Car magazines' liked the GLH because it was FUN to drive. All people remembered were the words 'OMNI' and 'FUN'. It was one of the smartest 'things' Chrysler did - back then. [probably the ONLY 'smart' thing 'they' did - back then] No doubt - the G35 would make a BETTER 'first impression' IF it was FUN to drive. [and 'fun to drive' MEANS - as far as most car magazines are concerned - a standard transmission]
The BMW crowd [the 'crowd' I'm ASSUMING Infiniti is hoping to attract with their new G35] wants 'bragging rights'. They do NOT want to feel as though any car they buy has to be justified - in some way. ["well - it DOES get good gas mileage, etc."] If I was going to buy a new G35 INSTEAD of a new 3-series BMW - I would FIRST have to be convinced that the G35 WILL be better at something. [something that matters - that is] If I bought a G35 and someone asked me WHY did I buy THAT instead of a BMW - I would want to be able to hold my head up high and tell them. ["because it's FASTER and/or HANDLES better, etc."]
The BMW 'crowd' is different than the Camry/Accord 'crowd'. Saving money takes a back seat to how well 'it' [the car] strokes the ego.
Craig!!
I don't think the G35 will have any problem convincing people that it will be better at something that matters, compared to a 3-series. You can bet that even the "BMW crowd" who must routinely battle traffic congestion has a far different slant on how much a manual matters.
BTW, I don't recall ANY of the articles I've read about the G35 mentioning "gas mileage" anywhere in the first few sentences, if it's mentioned at all. I HAVE seen a lot of "wow" and "...serious contender" stuff though. Not exactly the kind of retoric that appeals to the "slow lane crowd".
So far, G35 seems to be making quite the splash in the sports/luxury automotive press scene, 6-spd or not. Infiniti seems to have commited to the manuals inclusion just around the corner. If you have to have it, just wait a bit. Sheeez, people... get over it.
Since most of my driving is in heavy traffic to/from Chicago, I really would not get any extra pleasure RWD vs. FWD 90% of the time.
Thanks for the article on the snow traction. But I still am going by first-hand experience. One more example -- my neighbor has a 2000 Mustang. The car does not go in the snow. He bought the best snow tires he could find. Still couldn't even pull into our complex when the roads were icy. So, he bought an Explorer to supplement his Mustang.
Maybe I need to move to a warmer climate.
I don't disagree with that sentiment either. But consider this, if you owned a car that was almost certain to not start and leave you stranded in your driveway some number of times a year, you might think it just as absurd to consider buying it no matter what else it does right. I've made the tradeoff before and will probably be forced to do it again, maybe with a G35. Unfortunely, sometimes the enthusiast driver who lives in a snow belt needs to make this sort of decision.
You'd most likely lose that bet. I used to battle rush hour with my manual with no problem. There are plenty of people on the 3-series board who are like me. If G35 is going to attact any "core" 3-series owner, then it needs a manual.
Who cares?! You buy the car that you want and meets your needs and requirements. Who cares what someone else buys or thinks about your car? If manuals are the key to success, Lexus and Mercedes would not be so successful. But they are.
Like I said before, can't wait for a manual then get the 3er. Want a G35 with a manual, then wait a year. Quit bitchin' about what is already done and look forward to what is to come.
Lexus and Mercedes aren't really targeting the sporty segments, they are mostly luxury makes (AMG being an exception).
-juice
Also, Nissan not introducing the manual from the start makes me wonder if they're just after the badge hound, vs. enthusiasts.
They advised me that it would be sometime in the first week of March. West Coast folks should get their's first. I was advised mine should be in sometime in the 2nd week. This is what I've been told from the start, but I had my fingers crossed that it might come in sooner, guess not.
I'll keep the I35 loaner they gave me, what the heck it's not costing me anything but gas money.
The 6 speed stands out, even compared to the 5 speed manuals common in the sport sedan class.
BTW, Mercedes has a 6 speed in the C240, even though it's not particularly sporty. Audi and BMW also offer manuals. Heck, even the Lincoln LS V6 does!
-juice
Interesting that you mentioned the AMG brand. If AMG is so sporty, then why the heck don't they offer a manual on all their cars - why just the SLK - and not the E55, S55, CL55, etc.
Isn't that the whole argument has been about so far? That if Infiniti wants to cater to the *true* enthusiast crowd, they must offer a manual from the outset. AMG does not even offer it as an option *ever* on most of their cars, and yet you conveniently give them an exception and say they are enthusiast cars!
What a double standard. Because it comes from Germnay, it *must* be sporty even when no enthusiast manual is available. But if it is from Japan, all hell breaks loose and Infiniti is written off because they will not offer a manual from the outset. Unlike AMG, atleast Infiniti is promising a manual in the near future. A six peed at that.
And people aren't complaining about the lack of manual at launch. We're opining that Infiniti should launch with a manual and that we FEEL Infiniti is making a mistake.
I don't mind new technology as long as that technology improves on the status quo. (Most innovations are mostly junk!) We are going to see more and more of clutchless manual transmissions that allow for faster reaction times than conventional manuals. If Formula One drivers find them advantageous, the rest of us should too.
Infiniti established - with the first Q45 - that BMW was their 'target'. Infiniti - in fact - was often referred to as the 'Japanese BMW'. [Lexus was the 'Japanese Mercedes'] BMW's appeal to people who love to DRIVE. IF Infiniti STILL wants to be taken seriously [AS a genuine BMW alternative] then it MUST BE serious. Obviously - by making the G35 RWD - Infiniti understands what it takes TO be considered a genuine competitor. [for BMW - and the like] My argument is that 'they' should have gone 'all the way' and be 'serious' from DAY ONE. To ME - that means offering a 6-speed manual transmission. [NOW - NOT a year from NOW]
For most people - what someone ELSE THINKS of them [and the car they bought] DOES matter. [as silly as that is] That is reality. Take a look a ANY 'ad' - whether it's for cars or Coke. Those 'ads' are NOT appealing to one's logic - 'they' are appealing to one's EGO. No one 'NEEDS' a BMW OR Infinti. [or COKE - for that matter]
Craig!!
Sheesh! I did not think you guys were that impatient about getting the six speed. Or such perfectionsists about getting what you want *NOW*
I am a BMW fan myself - their engineering prowess has my respect (though not their design direction). But I cannot help but see a strong bias towards BMWs, especially in the motoring press.
BMWs are accepted as being sporty by default, simply because they have that spinning propeller on the hood. I have test-driven the 3er, and it was not the mind blowing experience I had expected it to be - there just was not that sense of exhiliration and pleasure. And I drive a Toyota Camry everyday.
May be that is reserved for their M-cars and the Z8, neither of which I have driven.
Let me just say this: if the automotive press likes it, it's going to sell. So far the preliminary test drives, in spite of being laden with corporate information, are real test drives nonetheless and have been very positive. Those journalists who are not happy with the lack of a manual will be appeased by Infiniti's promise of one in the near future.
I do not think all German cars are sporty, far from it. The Passat/Golf are too soft for my tastes, and anything from Mercedes beyond the C class feels to heavy to be truly sporty, IMO. BMW's 3 and 5 series cars are sporty, but the X5 is too bulky and the 7 series isn't truly sporty either.
I have never owned a German car, and may not ever. I'd actually be more likely to purchase another Japanese car, i.e. an Infiniti, if they keep me in mind when designing it. So yes, I have a double-standard personal bias - in favor of the reliability-proven Japanese brands.
-juice
So the debate will go on, I guess.
I'd take an SLK320 6-speed manual any day, and yes they had a sweet-shifting manual at that event! Back-to-back, even their best automatics could not compare, not even close! It was the most fun car there by a long shot.
The new 7 looks like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. "Sanctuary!" Sorry, it's hideous, I can't even bare to look. (see, who says I'm pro-German?)
Bummer: I showed the article in Auto Week to my wife, and she showed more and more interest until she saw the rear view. Veto'd it right there on the spot. I'll show it to her again in person when they arrive, since we have an Infiniti dealer very close to our house.
-juice
http://www.autoweek.com
5-speed automatic
1st
3.540
2nd
2.264
3rd
1.471
4th
1.000
5th
0.834
Final drive ratio
3.357
I believe it was 19 mpg city and 24 mpg highway. That's pretty good considering it's a 3.5 liter engine.
Yet another thing a manual could address.
OK I'll shut up now. ;-)
-juice
Sad, but true. As I said before, I feel sorry for these people. What a pitiful life they must lead to always follow the masses. I, for one, would rather think for myself. It's how I know I'm not brain dead. If I like the G35, I'll buy it even if every other person on the planet hated it. I'm the one that has to look at it and drive it everyday so who cares what others think of it. Didn't there use to be an Audi marketing campaign to get people to "choose their own road" instead of jumping into the BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus abyss with everyone else?
Have any subscribers received their March issue in the mail yet? I'm a subscriber but I still haven't received it yet. Don't know why this critical issue is so late. :-(
68bullit -
The reason the issue is so late is because they are probably waiting for Infiniti to deliver a G35 with a manual 6-speed for them to preview.
(It's a joke people ... lighten up!)
-juice
I want to see what the how the car looks in print - vs. all the electronic pictures we have seen so far. Also finally get a chance to see what the other optional colors look like (or approximate atleast).
The only colors I have seen it in so far are silver and red. May be we will get more info on the specs and the options combinations available as well. The stuff on their web site is too confusing to figure which option is individually available.
I am guessing the gearing is what is holding back the mileage.
Isn't R&T the magazine that gives the revs at 60 mph? I wonder what they are. probably a little higher than the competition.
For those of us who put a lot of highway miles on, relaxed cruising at higher speeds is appreciated, even in a sport sedan. If I need to accelerate, I just downshift to the appropriate gear and floor it. In the automatic-only G35, the car will automatically downshift when you floor it to pass.
Automatics are a lot more popular in the US than manuals are.
Why build a manual now when the automatic will outsell the manuals??? I'd rahter they build what the majority of the public wants and not what the minority wants!
And the automotive press want every car available with a manual. They would probaly love the Cadillac Seville STS better with a manual!!!
Compare the BMW to the G35 and as far as price, reliability, power, size goes to the 3-series there is no competition!!! Anyone who buys a 3-series over a G35 is doing so for the NAME and extra prestige BMW has!!!
Maybe some people who buy a BMW 3 Series might be looking for a convertible, station wagon, super high-performance sedan, 2-door coupe, engine & transmission choices, etc. They won't find that in the G35. Not to mention a proven historical track record for the specific platform. Who knows what the G35's reliability will be? Or future re-sale value? How will it depreciate?
I know past performance is not a predictor of future results, but since Infiniti arrived in the late 1980s how many classic Infiniti's are there? How many smash market successes? Recent issue of Motor Trend discussed what a great value a used Q45 (the 4.1L engine platform) is because it depreciates so much!!!
Take a look at sales % (manual vs. automatic) for the 3 series. It's about 40% manuals. That's hardly a small percentage.
Now look at how poorly the IS300 sold when equipped only with an automatic (well below Lexus' estimates, causing fire sale pricing in its first year on the market).
Put them together and you'll see why Infiniti shouldn't wait to offer the manual tranny...
I can say the same for the 5-series. Anybody that buys a 5-series BMW over the G35 has too much money burning a hole in their pants, up to $25K too much, and is more concerned about prestige than value and performance. I can get a lot more other toys with the $15K to $25K I'll be saving!