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Comments
NO ONE here can say anything definitive about the future of the G35 or what its reliability, long-term operating costs, or depreciation will be. Doesn't mean it will be bad, just that it is a completely new car from a rather small player in the US market.
Will be interesting to see how much a 5-yr-old G35 will be worth and what percentage of initial selling price it retains. Could prove to be costly. Might not. Only time will tell.
I just think that most of the people here are complaining about the lack of the manual because they're "little" upset about their overpriced BMWs. Kinda like how some TL-Type S owners are saying the Maxima isn't in the same class because it didn't have a navigation system until this year.
BTW2, I drove a 2002 M5 extensively a few weeks ago. Fun car, but way overkill. I'd rather pocket the $50K and get the G35. But that's just me. :-)
Now this may not mean squat for the G35 in five years but I thought it was important enough to post anyway.
I can't wait till the automotive press actually gets to test real production G35s and publishes the results. Then the speculation will end. The published test data for new Cadillac CTS wasn't too great from an acceleration standpoint. Maybe the automatic G35 will be better? Not sure, but it likely won't be as good as a manual Altima 3.5SE.
I don't know anyone upset with their BMW manual's car's performance, regardless of model.
As for me, my Impala LS will be two years old by Feb 2003. At that time, I"ll be a serious shopper for a G35 manual. I don't waste my time bitching about lack of manual since I"m not ready for a new car at this time. I dont' give a hoop whether Infiniti has a manual or not. It's irrevelant to me.
For some of you who [non-permissible content removed] about G35 not having a manual, I plead to you to go buy a BMW manual RIGHT NOW! What are you waiting for? Why bother wasting your time with this "inferior" G35? Go buy the "Ultimate Driving Machine"!!!
http://www.autoweek.com
Neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board have any idea how "good" or "bad" the G35 will end up being. Thus, no one knows if it is "superior" or "inferior" to anything. I can't wait till it is tested. And I can't wait to see 'em test the purported future 6-speed manual!
Glad to hear you are going to be a serious shopper for a G35 manual! I might, too, IF it ever comes out and IF it is a great car. So why spend so much time worrying about a G35 automatic you won't ever be buying?
I really wish they would have introduced it with a stick!!!
"You didn't get to drive the six-speed manual," said Crahan. "The Z transmission will be the best you've ever seen. The S2000 is the best out there now, but the S2000 has no torque. When the Z car comes out it'll have the best shifter feel on the market, better than Porsche, BMW, everyone."
For me, the G35 has always been my "preferred" car, and I've put off my purchase a bit to wait for it to arrive. If it had a manual now, I can't guarantee I'd buy it (since I haven't seen a/o driven it yet) but the combination of price, performance and amenities leads the pack IMO. I'm also looking at the TL or TL-S, A4, and the 3-series (but that will prolly be too much). Not interested in Lexus.
Not looking at I35 as the wife already drives a 2K Maxima SE which has been excellent.
Anyone know if they might introduce the 6 spd version by September?
Now take into account a lower priced version of the G35 called the G25, with the 175hp 2.5 4-cylinder. There is no need for it because the G35 is already priced at the absolute entry point for the near-luxury segment. If you could buy a G25 for 23K, then it would not be considered a luxury car in the minds of the consumers, and would not sell in the same numbers of the G35.
Luxury cars need to be premium priced.
The Acura TL was sold for 3 years with one model optioned out two ways; with or without navigation. Although there was an extreme lack of options and models, the car sold extremely well. You would be suprised how weird consumers react to different pricing strategies-price is everything.
My guess is that Infinit will have reasonable success not unlike the TL. The G35 and the TL both offer value that others in the segment can't match.
Me worry? Not me. Why spend so much time bitching about the lack of manual when we KNOW Infiniti will offer a manual later this year? If you believe G35 will be doom for not offering the manual from the get go, then you are obviously mistaken. The G35 offers too many value for it to be doom.
For those true "enthusiasts" who can't afford to wait for the G35 manual, then I suggest they run to their nearest BMW dealership and buy the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Otherwise, they can wait for the G35 manual and get more bang for the buck for LESS!! It's that simple!
3.2 CL type S auto
First 2.563
Second 1.551
Third 1.021
Fourth 0.653
Fifth 0.470
G35 auto
First 3.540
Second 2.264
Third 1.471
Fourth 1.000
Fifth 0.834
They should have aggressive gearing, especially in the U.S... we won't be doing 140mph down the autobahn here.
Hondas tend to be very steeply geared. Usually over the 4.0 range. That is the only way that acura motor could pull a .470 fifth gear.
To get an accurate comparison of gearing the driven gearing and transmission gearing need to be multiplyed.
I do think it has borrowed heavily from my 2001 Passat,but that is to be expected. A distinctive design will always influence later products.
The old,unchromed Passat I think is one of the handsomest sedans extant(that's why I bought one
But this new G35 is special in its own right. I'm anxious to see one on the road.
http://www.carseverything.com/content/article/1401.5/
has gas milage, gear ratios, etc
Lots of links at bottom about pretty much everything about the car except test drive.
Can't wait to drive this car!!
The Acura starts off at 11.349 in 1st gear (2.563 x 4.428). It ends at 2.081 in 5th gear (0.470 x 4.428). Thus it has an overall ratio spread, 1st to 5th gear, of 5.454 (11.349/2.081). This gearing is designed to provide excellent initial acceleration and great highway fuel economy & relaxed cruising in overdrive.
2. Even if it finally does come with a manual, will dealers actually order and stock 'em? Will I be able to find and test drive one? My two nearest dealers never once stocked a manual I30. I never once even saw one on the road. My nearest dealer's service tech told me once he had only seen one. From a customer who moved into area from somewhere else. Will G35 manual end up like that?
3. Delaying manual introduction makes me wonder what the lease residual/depreciation difference will be between automatics and manuals. That has been a problem for other cars from makes & models that don't normally stress manuals, but not those that stress lots of manuals.
4. Since the Acura TL is based on Accord, it helps Honda/Acura hold down unit costs. Will be interesting to see what G35 platform production ends up being worldwide.
5. All the 3 Series choices maximizes market penetration and increases overall sales. And helps explain why some models are inexpensive (325i) while others are very expensive (M3, convertible). I see a lot of 325i's priced about $33,000 and 330i's around $39,000. But if you want, you can order one from a dealer that is less well equipped for a lot less money. And if you want AWD, convertible, station wagon, coupe, M-type performance model, etc. you can't get this in G35.
1) Infiniti has said that the manual will come in about a years time, so it could be MY 2004, because the current G35 will be classified as MY 2003.
2) You can always custom order you G35. That is what I did with my Camry so that I could get the options I wanted without paying for those I did not want. Usually, the dealerships like doing that because they can make a slightly larger profit on such orders - the car is essentially presold and so the dealership does not have to pay the hefty inventory taxes. I plan to custom-order my G35 when the manual version comes out.
3) Depreciation values are probably not as good as BMW or Mercedes, simply because Infinti marque does not hold that same mystique as them. If you are worried about depriciation on something that you have not even bought, then BMW or Mercedes is your best bet - not the Infiniti.
4) The G35 platform is based on the FM platform. This one will be used in the G35 sedan and coupe, the new Z car, the upcoming Skyline, the FX45 SUV hybrid coming out next year, and is also used in the Japanese-market Stagea wagon. Since they are already making the coupe G35, I would not be surprised to see a convertible version if the coupe is popular - afterall the new Z will come in convertible form as well. I am sure all of these models, except may be the Stagea, are (or will be) sold in the major car markets - Japan, US, Europe.
5) The G35 sedan alone is sold in with four different engine options in Japan. And three of those engine options come with either a manual of an automatic. Oh yeah - the Skyline also has an AWD option for these three engines (as far as I can tell - I cannot read Japanese - but they do offer AWD on some model Skyline). The fourth engine comes with a CVT. Then you have the announced the coupe coming in the fall. Infiniti could easily bring the Stagea wagon to the US (makes me scratch my head on why they don't - sport wagons are making a resurgence).
So quit complaining about why the 3er has so many model variations - the Skyline does as well. And as for the M3 version, the upcoming FX45 indicates that the FM platform can handle a V8. The next GT-R is rumored to have a twin-turbo version of the Q's V8 - so an M3 (or even an M5) challenger is easily possible. Infiniti is just not bringing all these variations right away probably because they want to see what the initial reaction to the G35 sedan is, and then act accordingly.
I'll be hoping and praying that Infiniti brings forth lots of other G35-related models into the US market over time. Too bad they are starting off so conservatively and cautiously. Wondering if the European market will only get a 4-dr G35-related platform upon introduction? Guessing they'll get more models initially. Too bad for us!
I won't order anything costing $30,000 unless and until I can extensively test drive it first. So if all my local dealers won't ever order a manual, it makes it hard to do a decent test drive. Would really rather not have to drive hundreds of miles just to test drive a car I'm interested in.
You and I, and everyone else, we keep revisiting the same issues over and over again. I guess that will continue until the full test drive reviews show up in the car magazines. Then the debate will center around performance numbers (already seeing that in the gear ratio discussions), and a then a few years from now it will be on maintenance and reliability issues.
It will then start all over again when either BMW or Infiniti announce the replacement models.
As noted in the title, I've been lurking for some time now, and feel the need to comment on the ongoing discussion between the 3er and G35: it just doesn't matter. The G35, at first blush, seems like a very well designed, quick, responsive car (if the numbers are true). It will easily outperform a 325 and maybe a 330, for less money. Even with these facts, many people still feel the need to either justify the purchase of a G35, or go to great lengths to illustrate the fact that the G35, performance wise, is just as capable as a 3er (maybe more so). The messages on this board remind me of the IS300 board some time back, where people also took great pains to dismiss the 3er as a virtual has been because the IS300 was just as fast as a 328, had Lexus' legendary reliability and was more aggressively styled. For various reasons, the IS300 has not taken that much market share away from BMW.
Let's face it, BMW is the undisputed market leader and will be for some time. The IS300, even with very aggressive lease rates, tons of advertising, and Lexus' reliability, couldn't topple BMW. It seems to me that the G35, with it's better performance and Infinti's reliability still won't be able to de-throne BMW.
Remember, it took BMW over 20 years to get to where it is now. Someday Infiniti may be the class leader but for now, the G35 will be regarded along the same lines as the IS300: a good performing sports sedan imported from Japan that gives the 3er a good run for its money.
http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreviews/03infinitig35_sp.cfm
Didn't Infiniti promise similar things with the new Q45 as well? Lets hope they deliver this time.
Still think that sums up why the IS is not a sales success.
Do not underestimate Japanese patience and persistence. Everyone scoffed when Lexus, Acura and Infiniti entered the luxury car market. To borrow from recent business events, Lexus became the "Target" of luxury car makes, while Acura became the "Walmart"
I hate to say this, but Infiniti turned out to be the "KMart," simply because they could not decide what they wanted to be - a Merc challenger or a Bimmer fighter. The G35 is a big step in the right direction for Infiniti (assuming they want to fight BMW), once the manual is introduced (you die-hard enthusiasts happy?).
A Brand is built up over time, and BMW has been diligently nurturing theirs for the past 30 years. But its biggest boost came with the success of the 3 series - that is when people started to look at it as a viable German alternative to the Merc.
Hopefully, Infiniti will be just as successful
I personally do not care what symbol is on the hood. Make it fun, powerful and fast, all in a tight package with a healthy dose of luxury, and I will buy. Right now, BMW does this better than anyone else. The G35, at least on paper, seems to do the same for less money (and that 260-hp V6!)
Is it somehow different when a 20 year old college student gets a 330ci over an IS300? Don't scoff. At my alma mater it was quite common for teens and the like to tool around in 30k cars and at my current grad school, Bimmers seem to take up at least 15% of the parking lot spaces.
Infiniti G35
1st 11.88
2nd 7.60
3rd 4.94
4th 3.36
5th 2.80
Reverse 7.96
Acura TL-S
1st 11.35
2nd 6.87
3rd 4.52
4th 2.89
5th 2.08
Reverse 8.17
BMW 330iA
1st 12.40
2nd 6.76
3rd 4.77
4th 3.38
5th 2.50
Reverse 13.86
Overall, very aggressive gearing by Infiniti, though I wish 5th was more of an overdrive so that the highway gas mileage would be higher.
From a standpoint of sales I would think that over half, maybe more like 80% of G35's will be sold with an auto. And I mean after the manual is available. So it makes sense to offer the auto first. Less risk involved in manufacturing a car with two different transmissions.
The argument that most people are making for the manual is not, "bring the manual and you'll sell a lot more cars." While Nissan might sell a few more directly. A few manuals that is. The big difference would be in the reviews in the auto mags. And those are worth something. Lower 0-60 times, quarter mile times, and editors saying how much they love the car. Without the manual the reviews will not be as good.
As for the IS300 I think that has far more to do with its look and its size. It is ugly (my opinions) and small (not my opinion). The G35 is quite large, bigger than a 5 series I think (Didn't bother to check). Also, while the IS300 is supposed to handle great it is a bit underpowered. That is mentioned in most reviews and everyone can read acceleration numbers. And while there is FAR more to a car than 0-60 times, they do stand out.
If things go as it looks like they might the G35 will be bigger, faster, and handle close to an IS300. Which would put it up there with the 3 series and 5 series in car mag comparos.
Wonder if they'd compare a G35 to a 530i, different price range but similar size, etc.
Now all we need is an awd twin turbo version.
With a manual.
Kind of like Cadillac introducing CTS in Europe with 2 V-6 choices. America only gets the bigger V-6.
Its not unusual to see a student driving an IS. There quite common here too.
Around my campus here in Bloomington, I see everything from Integras to M5's and a MB C32. There are plenty of 3-series here on campus, but I also see people who are in their 30's, 40's, and 50+ driving 3-series
Does having more versions of a car make it a better car to own and drive? I think not. If that was the case, GM would make the best cars in the world since you can buy the same car dressed up as a Pontiac, Buick or Olds providing the consumer with a lot of choices. Lots of versions of the same thing.
You speak with such matured intelligence, too bad you are a Bimmer lover. (LOL)
The fact is, I too am still vacillating between a 530 and the upcoming, untested G35.
BTW, why do you need a xi in hot and dry Texas?
Reiz - check out the web page below. The sedan is available in three different engines, as well as different transmission options and RWD vs AWD. One reason the other engines are not coming over is because the fuel used in many parts of the has high sulphur content whci ruins the direct-injection system that these engines have.
http://www.nissan.co.jp/SKYLINE/V35/0201/DATA/MAIN/index.html
You can look around for the other models I talked about. The Stagea is out as well, and so is the new Z car. The G35 coupe is not released, and the M3/M5 killer GT-R model will come out in 2004. So nio, they are all not available, but they are coming.
Bobbyknight - what University are you talking about? May be I should attend there!
68bullit - Good point!!!!
Stooge2000 - Thanks. No one has ever accused me of being mature. But I am not a Bimmer lover, I am a car lover. Above all, I respect engineering prowess - which the Germans display in excess, and the Japanese follow and emulate at a lower cost (the jury is out on the Americans). I am not interested in the 5er - subjectively to me at least, it is even smaller than the 3er.
And what made you think I was interested in AWD? They are heavy, expensive, eat more gas, are more complex (that is, more parts that can break), and slow the car down in the dry (what idiot wants to drive fast in the wet, where AWD systems do help?)
That would really drive GMC and Chevy's SUV and truck guys crazy deciding which ONE and only one model full-size truck and SUVs they could offer. Would it be gas or diesel, 2WD or 4WD, 6 cyl or 8 cyl, 1/4 ton/1/2 ton/ 3/4 ton, etc. Oops, guess all those zillion truck choices boost sales into the stratosphere? Doesn't Ford sell about 700,000 F Series in about 30 varieties? GM sells nearly as many C/K Series in their zillion different varieties?
Oh, by tomorrow morning, I"m off to Mardi Gras! Heehaaa! By the time I come back from Mardi Gras on 2/12, there should be 200 messages or so for me to read about G35. Keep those conversations about "manual" to a limit, ok?
Later!
And I think real estate agents are the best thing since slice bread.
(There, that should stimulate some postings)
Considering the fact that YOUR 'argument' was the same as MY 'argument' [in favor of the manual transmission being available from 'day one'] it will come as no surprise [to you] that I completely agree with what you said. A 'first impression' is like the first domino. IF that first domino is right where it SHOULD be - then all of the OTHER domino's will fall into place. [if that makes sense] 'You' only get ONE chance at making a first impression and I think a G35 with a 6-speed manual transmission would make a better 'first domino'.
Craig!!
Somehow the G35s we drove ,which were very rapid transit once under way, didnt feel that bothered to get off the line ,their accelerative tendencies blunted by their automatics and "drive by wire "throtle arrangements.
NOT very positive i wouldnt say.
Fuel milage: a article on the altima is averaging 13.5 MPG Yikes .....
DL