Mazda RX-8

cheezeboy

Mr ShiftRight - I like that!...I never knew rebuke came in a 'stinging' form here at Edmunds!....

just a question - if all my friends email me or call me to tell me to slow down, am I losing it, or are they just getting old?.......hmmm...maybe both....

(probably the former, but I won't admit it yet!)..

graphicguy

It's kind of like the old "Rock & Roll" adage..."If it's too loud, you're too old!"

Same thing here..."if I'm going to fast, you're too scared"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr_Shiftright

Personally I would be much more worried if they told you to "speed up!"

shiftright's golden rule of the road: "You are allowed to be slow and you are allowed to be stupid, but you are NOT allowed to be both!"

graphicguy

I like that quote....I'm going to have to use it.

evaddave

I dunno, Shifty, it's the fast and stupid drivers that really scare me.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, very true, but at least "fast and stupid" has a built-in self-correcting factor called Death.

muffin_man

death for who? give me slow and stupid any day.

carliker

Darn, I leave for awhile and I miss someone stirring up the pot. Why do some come into these threads, say something, and then leave never to be heard from again? That BMW instructor story really added to this RX-8 forum, didn't it? Now you know that even random instructors can have lousy opinions and that some people are too gentle with their high revving vehicles. This was almost the equivalent of someone describing what their best friend's father's second cousin said. I'm glad graphic (as I knew he would) stood up and defended his ride - even though the RX-8 speaks for itself. I'd like to think this forum is for people who have actually driven an RX-8 and aren't relying on how someone else felt about it. To me, that's nonsense and serves no purpose.

Mr_Shiftright

I've also noticed that the Wall Street Journal is reviewing movies it hasn't seen yet?

Is this a new trend in journalism?

ashutoshsm

... Consumer Reports reviewing cars and tires instead of knitting needles and refrigerators? Must be a trend.

Just dropped in to mention - still think the 8 is top of the totem pole. Especially after watching that dude drift it at the recent Mazda RevItUp event I attended. And watching mildly modified and stock RX-8s becoming shockingly competitive in their respective classes at local AutoCrosses

carliker

Shifty/Ashuto - Were those responses to my comment? I can't tell anymore.

ajvdh

I've driven one myself, and I posted my impressions in this very forum a long time ago. Even mentioned that above, but I guess you missed it. However, since it was on the street and 1 - the car belonged to a friend of my wife's and 2 - I like keeping points off my license, I was somewhat circumspect about pushing the envelope.

I was very impressed with the balance and communicative nature of the chassis. I prefer more torque, but even given that, I think the only BMWs currently in production that are as much fun as an RX8 are all waaaaaay more expensive (e.g. the Z4/sport, the 330iPP, and obviously the M3).

So, I was hoping to get some feedback about what happened when the car was actually pushed near its limits, but the car's owner didn't appear willing to do that.

Funny, but I thought that the first guys comments: "Chassis balance was real nice - liked that a lot. Good to v-good brakes." would be construed as positive. But I guess a fanatic regards anything other that rabid praise as an insult.

Mr_Shiftright

Nah, just breezin'

rorr

"But I guess a fanatic regards anything other that rabid praise as an insult."

You'll find that in a lot of forums in the TH. I've even seen it in the misc. Kia threads....

ashutoshsm

... Top Gear's test track yielded an identical lap time for the Rx-8 as the Track version of the 350Z. And the M3 SMG. Now isn't that a shocker

Jeremy Clarkson called it the absolute best car he'd driven all year.

cheezeboy

hey - is the Mazda Rev It Up fun?...worth it?....not a big sales pitch?....not a smoke and mirrors/keep the cars under 40/no tight turns unless you are a real race car driver event?.....

I am curious...but my sales guy, who I like and talked to today, was all "sales pitchy" about it...kinda got a weird vibe about it...maybe it was more him being goofy....

any/all comments are welcome.....

muffin_man

Mazda Rev it up is awesome. It is definitely worth it. When you are in the competition, you cna drive the car as hard and fast as you want, but it is a very curvy course.

And you can test drive any mazda there, on a more limited, but still fun, test track.

I've been the last two years, it is a great time.

autolover

Like on Carmax, you will see a bunch of them with less than 5000 miles. What are people finding out they don"t like about them, or are you always going to have people that just buy and sell cars at will?

qbrozen

Yes, I think you will always find that with any car. Its the fickle buying public at work. I think the mistake some shoppers make, however, is always, when looking at a used car, thinking "gee. i wonder why the owner got rid of it." And not thinking that there are several times, unfortunately, that owners have no choice. Maybe a repo or maybe a voluntary surrender. If you read many of the dealer comments around townhall, it seems that a very large percentage of buyers are always getting in over their heads with the cars they buy.

carliker

I agree with gbrozen. Sometimes I wonder why I see so many one to two year old cars in the classifieds. Not all these people could possibly lose interest in their cars so quickly...so it must be due to circumstances that gbrozen mentioned. For most people, the cost of buying a vehicle every year to get the newest version would turn their car budget upside down permanently. It's amazing how people are sucked into the excitement of getting a thrilling ride, but then they don't have the rainy day sum saved up for such incidences that just creep up. The car dealers and creditors get them to think they will have no problem affording the car, but in reality, they can't.

cheezeboy

yeah...I think that's it...because I have been eating nothing but PB&J sandwiches with soda crackers since I bought my RX8!......and it's all worth it!!......I figure, the lighter I get, the faster I go!......it's rent, car, gas, and cat food (which by the way, is not that tasty!)....then anything left over goes to food......I bet all those 1 to 2 year old cars are from people who can't eat peanutbutter.........just a working theory!....

if any of you are worried about my health (physical not mental), have no worries - I sometimes treat myself to a "cheese" sandwich!..
 :-)

revdrluv

Ramen noodles are a good break from peanut butter as well.

graphicguy

Personally, I check CARMAX and other used car superstores throughout the country from time to time. I haven't seen but precious few RX8s turn up at any of those searches. On a whim, I've called a couple of those stores. They said that they could get one if I was willing to wait. I asked them why they adverstise them if they aren't in stock? After some "dancing" around the issue, they finally admit that they put a car like the 8 on their web sites to get traffic flowing through the store in the hopes of the potential customer buying something they actually have in stock.

I also think you'll see, as others have stated, people who want a particular car, over extend themselves to get one, and then realize they can't fit it into their budget (if they even have a budget). Dealers turn around and take their nearly new car in trade, set them up with a new Kia (for example) and roll over the negative equity to the Kia. A very bad financial move made even worse.

On the other hand, I've picked up some very nice slightly used cars, with warranty, by buying some of these types of cars.

I'd do the same with an RX8, if I could find a barely used one (but I can't).

graphicguy

I've pushed mine to the limits. First, the limits are high and when you surpass those limits, it is relatively forgiving.

If you leave the DSC on, and you enter a corner too hot, it will snap you back in line. I've done it. With the DSC off (it's never totally off), you can drift it.

Now the laws of physics still apply. As Shifty says, if you drive too fast AND too stupid, you're going to end up in the weeds (or worse).

Best place to test the limits is on a closed course. I certainly wouldn't try to test them on any open road. While the limits are indeed quite high, on public roads, you're putting others at high risk if/when you do loose it. That's true of any car, however.

ajvdh

A big "Amen" about closed courses. Also about physics - some guy found that out at our local track last weekend. He wasn't hurt, but his car is now heavily customized. It wasn't an RX8, BTW.

Bummer they won't let you turn DSC all the way off, but we're seeing more and more of that (e.g. the Infiniti G35, most Mercedes). Can you pull a fuse, or will that throw all sorts of diagnostic codes?

pathstar1

You can turn it off in regards to it reacting. Just hold the button in for 7 (I think) seconds. To turn it back on you have to shut off the car and restart. It's not totally off because there is still power flowing to it, but it doesn't do anything. Some blame it for MIL lights when dynoing, but that is caused by the EPS being concerned that only two wheels are turning. At least that's what we think is happening.

graphicguy

As Pathstar says, there is a way to not let it interfere with driving, but I'm always skeptical as to what is really going on given there's still power flowing to it. The ECUs/ECMs today are controlling so much in addition to just engine management.

I keep hearing this regarding many cars made within the last couple of years.

I guess car manufacturer's think we're too stupid (or that we'll somehow sue them for our stupidity). Stranger things have happened, I suppose.

carliker

I just saw these two articles and thought I'd post them here. One is dated May 24th, 2004 for some reason. The other one was in April concerning a sanctioned race an RX-8 won.

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=longtermtests&content_code=02812139&Searc- h_Type=STD&Search_ID=2141355&record=1

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=motorsportsnews&content_code=06759878&Sea- rch_Type=STD&Search_ID=2141355&record=3

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.



http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

graphicguy

Quote....

"Scoreboard: RX-8 scores Grand-Am Cup win

Taking on only two tires while the primary competition stayed long enough in the pits for a full set helped Sylvain Tremblay and David Haskell score the first North American professional race win for a Mazda RX-8 in the Grand-Am Cup Series Sport Touring 200 at Phoenix International Race-way. They finished 27 seconds ahead of the pole-winning Turner Motorsports BMW 330i driven by Don Salama and Will Turner."

Now that's impressive!!!!!! Thanks, carliker!

pathstar1

Watched that race on Speed. It was impressive.

cheezeboy

...jeeze...now I know where my engine went the other day!.......had a nice day at the track!..sweet!

graphicguy

A few months ago, I was at my dealer getting an oil change. Since I had some time on my hands (it was a Saturday), I was hanging out looking at the stock of Miatas at the dealership before the sales floor opened.

While cruising the lot, I saw a guy that I had met previously at one of the autox events I attended. We didn't know each other's names but recognized one another. He walked over to greet me and asked what I was doing there. I told him I was getting an oil change. I asked him what he was doing. I remember previous conversations with this same fellow at some events where he "poo-pooed" the idea of me buying a car that wasn't a "true sports car" (because of the two extra doors and back seat on the RX8). He's a big Honda fan. I figured he was an S2000 kind of guy.

Well, lo and behold, he said he was looking at RX8s. I reminded him (kiddingly, of course) of his previous views. I asked him how serious he was about the RX8. He said "very serious". I asked him what else he was looking at and he gave me the usual suspects....S2000, 350Z/G35c. Well, then I wondered, why look at the RX8.

He said he test drove the RX8 at another dealership, but couldn't strike a "deal". I told him the other cars he was looking at were fine choices, too.

Almost verbatim, he listed the same reasons I had for choosing the RX8 over the others.

Bottom line, I got a $50 check from my dealership yesterday based on the fact that this guy ended up buying an RX8 and mentioned my name as the person who recommended the dealership to him. Perhaps I should get into car sales?

ashutoshsm

http://www.grandamerican.com/news/news1124.html

Also, I'd like to mention I'm disappointed at the lack (so far) of similar results

Especially considering the Stig (on top gear) whipped the RX-8 around the test course as fast as the BMW M3 SMG, and the 350Z track edition!

There are a couple of local RX-8 AutoCross competitors hereabouts, and one has started winning his class on a regular basis. I had the privilege of riding in one driven by a relative newbie, and was stunned at how balanced the car was, and how incredibly forgiving it was when pushed past its limits (somewhat meager limits, with semi-worn stock tires!)

ashutoshsm

I take back the insinuation that the RX-8 could do even better. Its already beating some 'better' cars. A quick glance at the field of competitors (http://www.grandamerican.com/race_results/view_entry78.html) shows ...
Porsche 996
Mustang Cobra
Audi S4
BMW M3
Cadillac CTS-V
Dodge Neon SRT4
Lots of BMW 3 series cars
BMW Z3
Firebird
350Z
RSX-S

WOW! Way to go.

carliker

On a regular basis, do you find that you use the back seats of the RX-8 or do you usually travel alone (or with one passenger)? One of my reasons for not wanting it was I was discovering that I had a sedan that could carry four people. Therefore, I obviously didn't need something as practical. Perhaps I was just used to having more fun in a two-seater since partly I associate less practical as being sportier. In my mind, the more practical a vehicle becomes in any way, the less pure it is as a sports car. The essence of what I feel about a sports car is freedom. The necessity of having to find room for a third or fourth occupant means I have lost that. In turn, some of the thrill of a sports car would be taken from me. I'm not saying the RX-8 isn't sporty. I just have mixed feelings about the very thing that makes the RX-8 so interesting and unique.

cheezeboy

GGuy - way ta go!....but don't give up the graphics yet. I need another artsy-fartsy guy around these forums.

carliker - my cent and a half - I think it's one of the coolest things to have now...the suicide doors are so handy....nothing better than hanging with some friends and say "I'll drive to dinner" followed by "cute girl has to ride shotgun!" and the 5'11" pal gets in the back, he has no problems and is comfortable for 10 miles. And I get to sit next to a pretty gal to boot!....Ha!....without the seats and doors, I would've have gotten stuck in the back of his civic....ack!.... :-)

graphicguy

While I travel alone the majority of the time, whenever there are more than one other person who I'm travelling with, they always ask me to drive. Obviously, the reason is I have a back seat that is relatively "liveable". The other reason is they all like my car.

No one wants to ride in my 4-door civic if given the choice, even though the civic's back seat has more room.

While there's a certain part of me that would love a convertible (S2000 would be my top choice followed by the yet to be released '05 Mustang Cobra convertible or the Mazdaspeed Miata), I'm content using the RX8's sunroof as the alternative. Having a useable back seat is worthwhile to me, also.

Given the choice of having the extra two doors and a back seat or not having them, I'll pick the former. Before the RX8, I was of the same mind as you...if it has 4 doors and a back sear, it's not a "proper sports car". With the RX8, I've done a 180 in my thinking, however. Even having the trunk has made me think differently. Aside from the fact that I consider the RX8 a better car than the 350Z, another major reason I wasn't fond of it was I couldn't fit anything in the hatch area.

I never got past the "looking/test driving" stage with the S2000 or Miata to see if there was useable room. At the time I was looking, I probably would have overlooked the trunk room. Now that I have a sports car with 4 doors, a back seat and a trunk, I don't know how I would have lived without them. I'm amazed at the thought that went into the design of the RX8 regarding the roominess. Not only do I consider it a sports car, it's also a "grocery getter", golf bag toter, "night on the town with the friends" sled, etc.

Don't get me wrong....the RX8 is not a Crown Vic regarding roominess or trunk size, but all-in-all, it's very serviceable for what I need it for.

This past winter, I didn't drive the RX8 much. Now, my poor civic has been relegated to strictly rain duty and driving back and forth to the airport (even though it gets 38 MPG).

cheezeboy

gguy - jeeze...38mpg?!?...that's more than 20mpg better than the RX8 (in town)...I was thinking a motorcycle here as a 2nd vehicle (Florida ya know) but a 38mpg Civic is a great option for less temperate climates. Good choice! I was thinking too at how neat it would be to have a Prius and an RX8....the whole "one / two" COTY thing.....however, if I could get my hands on a good CRX, then were talking! :-)

canadakris

I've currently got an RSX Type-S, but with a kid on the way I think I need something with 4 doors. I also moved out of the city, so I need something not too rough on the country roads.

Is the RX8 a good choice? I've taken out the WRX, but I found the ride to be way too rough (worse than my RSX). I've kind of settled on the Mazda 3 as a good alternative (didn't like the 6 that much).

Wondering how people with kids have found this car (i.e. child seats), and also how it does in winter (I know I'll need winter tires).

the_big_h

i'm not sure if the RX-8 will be any softer

this is, after all, a performance-oriented car

mazda3 would be a good choice as well

graphicguy

I'm lucky....I do have the best of both worlds. I've got the RX8 for my sports car "jones". The civic is relegated to rain/snow/ airport duty. I've actually gone as high is 40 MPG with the civic on an all highway run.

You guys will get a "kick" out of the following RX8 story.

Yesterday, it was a beautiful day. I headed to the grocery store to get some "fixins" for yet another grill out.

On my way home, I look up in my rearview to see the dreaded red/blue flashing lights behind me. I pull over and of course the man in blue caught me speeding. I knew it. He knew it. So, there was no point in saying "what did I do wrong, officer". He came to my window and said "did you know you were doing 57 MPH in a 35 MPH zone?".

My reply..."officer, I didn't realize I was going that fast. It's a pretty day and I was just winding the car out a little bit." I gave him my license and he headed back to the cruiser, only to come back a few minutes later and said..."how do you like the RX8?". Of course, I told him I loved it. He looked inside at the dash and asked if it the redline was really 9K RPMs. I told him that it was every bit of that number. We talked a little more about the 8. He said he was a big admirer of the car.

He smiled, told me to watch my speed and let me go with a warning.

First time any car got me OUT of a speeding ticket.

graphicguy

While not RX8 related, my much loved 6 year old Civic was wrecked a couple of days ago. No one was hurt (but I was shaken), but the airbags went off. A guy turned in front of me and "said he didn't see me"....his fault. I just got the call from the repair facility stating the fix costs more than the car is worth. Now I'm fighting with his insurance company. They say the car was worth $5K. I say it's worth $6.5K (according to KBB and Edmunds). Good thing I've got the RX8 as my "back-up" car.

I looked at new Civics last night, but don't want to spend the the amount they want for one. My brother-in-law is a GM employee and I can get his discount. I can pick up a Pontiac Vibe for around pretty well loaded up for about $13K-$14K. I know these are the same as a Matrix and as such should be reliable and get good MPG. Anyone here know much about them?

I checked the "vibe" thread here and the only thing I found was people complaining about the exhaust's "rotten egg" smell.

lngtonge18

Check to make sure you can get comfortable behind the wheel. The biggest drawback to the Matrix/Vibe is a horrible driving position. The steering column is almost nonexistent and thus sits very close to the dash. The footwell is shallow so the pedals are rather close. In order to reach the steering wheel comfortably, you have to move the seat forward, which then ends up scrunching your legs in the small footwell. I'm only 5'6" and could not find a comfortable medium. Either my arms were comfy but my legs were all scrunched up or my legs were comfy but my arms could barely reach the wheel. It was very annoying and the whole reason I took the car off my list a few years ago. And many others complain of the same problem. You also can't expect more then 32-35 mpg on the highway due to their tall stance.

As a suggestion, you might want to look into the Elantra. Not as good gas mileage as the Civic but it gets around 33-35 on the highway based on owner's reports and you would be surprised at just how well built and reliable they have become. You can snatch up a base 5 speed with power windows/locks and AC for around 11k. Not bad considering the peppy engine and long warranty. There is a leather clad hatch version too for about 13k that includes a firmer suspension, alloys, fog lights, Kenwood Cd player, and a large and versatile cargo hold. Just a suggestion. Sorry to hear of your loss but glad you are ok!

qbrozen

or you can pick up a barely used elantra with ultra-low miles for about half that - which would be right around the same as your insurance settlement.

graphicguy

Thanks, Intonge and qbrozen.

I'm kind of thinking of a wagon or truck. Although, I'm aware of the much improved Hyundais.

What makes the Vibe appealing is it's combination of room and its Toyota roots (should be reliable for a long time?). I'd like something I can do my "home depot" and "costco" runs with. I was originally thinking of a pick-up. Good used ones are running more than a new Vibe, though. Plus, with gas hitting $2, I was hoping to get something that got as good mileage as my civic. As it stands, I can get a $20K Vibe for about $13K+ using rebates and the GM discount.

I'll have to sit in one and drive one to see if it works for me, though.

cheezeboy

gguy - so glad to hear you are ok....a month ago our secretary ran a red light in front of our building...we watched it happen...no seat belt...airbags saved her life! just happy to know you walked away fine and dandy!

...I owned 2 Hyundai's prior to the RX8...good cars.

good luck in your replacement hunting!

graphicguy

Thanks...I'm alright. The inside of my arms are a little burnt and bruised from the steering wheel airbag going off. Those things inflate with a lot of force. I was wearing my seatbelt, but I suspect my head would have hit something without the airbag. So, I'm thankful I only got a few burns and bruises. I'm also a big believer in airbags, now. The police insisted on taking me to the hospital, even though I didn't think I needed to go. Aside from putting some "stuff" on my burns, bandages on my arms and giving me some Tylenol, they said I'm OK.

I went to the other guy's insurance office yesterday a.m. After the adjuster saw my burns and bruises, they gave me $500 more than "book value" for the civic on the spot. Walked out with a check. The burns and bruises really look worse than the injury warrants.

Looked at new Civics last night. To get an automatic LX I figure it will cost me about $15.3K. Boy, are those sales guys aggressive, though. I was amazed that they don't really drive any differently than my dearly departed 6 year old civic. I thought they would have made some advancements in the last few years. Looked at an automatic Accord LX. Boy, those are nice cars. I could probably have bought one for about $18.5K, but that's more than I want to spend. Drove an Element, too. I wasn't impressed. Plus, to get one with A/C and automatic, they still wanted close to $19K for one....not worth it, IMHO.

I'm going car shopping again today. Still thinking of a small Toyota pick-up or the previously mentioned Pontiac Vibe. I can't believe some of the deals they're offering from the dealer phone calls I've made. The Pontiac store, on the phone says the Vibe has a $2K rebate, an additional $1K off if I own a non-GM car, an additional $500 off for GM employee plans, plus with the GM discount, the starting price is about $1,200 under invoice before all of the rebates. Given all of that, I should be able to buy a $20K Vibe, well loaded up, for about $12K....with no negotiations. With the insurance check in my pocket, I should only have to bring about $5K-$6K with me out of my own pocket.

That makes it a pretty tempting deal.

the_big_h

that's a lot of discounts!

for a basically rebadged Toyota, I think that's a great deal.

graphicguy

I felt the same way. Some of those "rebates" went away June 1st. Dealer was willing to "back date" the deal to the June 1st date so I could get an extra $500 off from GM. So, long and short of the story, the Vibe was just too good of a deal to pass up. So, I bought one yesterday. I didn't get any of the sports models as mine's a base, but it's fairly well loaded....power windows, locks, hatch...a/c....automatic with cruise and something called "moons & tunes" (essentially an upgraded stereo and sunroof).

Dealer was real helpful for what I'm certain was a deal they made next to no money on (except for the money GM gives them to handle employee purchases). It's amazing how smooth a deal goes when there's no negotiation involved.

For all intents and purposes, the Vibe is a Toyota Matrix...bullteproof engine....interiors are more or less the same....very roomy...seats fold flat allowing me to fit my grill or lawn mower in the back. It's not a speedster, but I don't need that given I've already got the RX8 for that duty. It's pretty comfy as Toyota seems to do the smooth ride "thing" better than Honda. I'm hoping to get 30+ MPG regularly with it, plus it will take care of all my hauling duties for the foreseeable future.

After being in Honda, Toyota and Pontiac showrooms over the last couple of days, I can say that Honda and Toyota need more "sales training". I thought the days of "high pressure" sales were over. Honda and Toyota stores seem to read the same manuals....pressure, pressure, pressure.

What took the cake was when the Honda sales guy said the Element "commanded" (his word) MSRP because it was so superior to the Matrix/Vibe. Uhh....huhhhh!!!!!

Toyota sales person didn't endear himself to me as I pulled up in the RX8 and he made a comment that he much prefered the Celica to my 8 (bad first move on his part). He also said he couldn't believe I would "dare" compare the Vibe to the Matrix (why not?....their the same wagon). Couldn't have bought a Matrix at anywhere near what I bought the Vibe for after all the rebates.

Anyway, happy with my purchase.

One last thing....the Pontiac dealer had about 6 GTOs on the lot. The Sales Manager let the sales guys use his for a demostrator. While my car was being "prepped", they let me take the GTO around the block. That thing's a beast. It suffers from the same "heavy feeling" that the 350Z/G35c suffers from, but it has that V8 to haul that weight around. I have to say, I was impressed. Like others, it's made more for straight line acceleration than being an overall sports car, but it's very good at what it was intended to do. Matter of fact, I would prefer it over a 350Z/G35c. Sales guy asked me if I would trade my RX8 for the GTO. I told him that I would, but he'd have to throw some money my way to get me to do it.