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Corvettes and all things about them

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I certainly hope you are taking your Corvette to the Las Vegas/Phoenix area! I absolutely love going there from the San Jose CA area!

    I have seen this information in several places, that the stock pads are manufactured by PBR, in Australia.
     
    The price difference between the stock z06 pads and the ceramic pads is on the order of 27/28 dollars or app 18% more.

    How would you rate the stopping distance and the longevity of the ceramic pads vs 1. stock Z06 pads 2 AC Delco DuraStop pads 3. Performance Friction Z rated 4.PF carbon metallic pads? Thank you.
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    avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Don't know about the Performance Friction Z rated or PF carbon metallic pads. However, the Z06 vs. AC Delco DuraStop is probably defined as follows:

    Z06 Pads Pros

    1. Higher heat capacity (otherwise referred to as resistance to fade);
    2. Better 60 - 0 mph distance vs. stock Corvette pads;
    3. Lower cost than ceramic pads.

    Z06 Pads Cons

    1. BRAKE DUST

    DuraStop Ceramic Pads Pros

    1. Slightly shorter 60 - 0 mph distance vs. Z06 pads;
    2. Much less brake dust output;

    DuraStop Ceramic Pads Cons

    1. Less fade resistant than Z06 pads (but better than stock pads)
    2. Price

    Note that I stand by the shorter 60 - 0 mph distance for ceramic DuraStop pads. (Approx. 2 feet shorter based on my own tests; however, I did not test all possible variables such as distance after 10 successive stops, etc.) I think that the decision point is as follows:

    Going autocrossing? Use the Z06 pads. Want a great pad for street driving and HATE brake dust? Use the DuraStop ceramic pads.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Thank you for offering your opinions and experiences. There is almost a startling array of choices that it is almost essential to know what folks have experienced.

    I have also read in passing that the stock z06 pads are made by PBR of Australia.

    (and my spare Z06 pad set is marked PBR. I am not sure who makes the stock Corvette pads or even if there is a stock number difference)

    They were chosen over Performance Friction Z pads solely on cost! So I would guess the pad compounds are very similar. (carbon metallic)

    Since I have a Z06 spare set, I haven't decided whether to use it or go to ceramic. Also, I have heard ceramic, while it has many advantages, gives up some stopping power over the Z06 pads, i.e., slightly longer distances. I do like how the stock pads bring down this vehicle!

    I have been using the Performance Friction pads (3 sets so far) on Toyota Landcruisers and while it might not be a correct apples to apples test, the PF pads stop very very well, abeit a lot of dust!
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20040- 225/bs_usatoday/carmakerscatchbuyersinspeedtrap

       If you want to go fast, take it to the track.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Unfortunately, I did not take the Vette to Vegas. My wife packs like we were going to be gone for 8 months rather than 8 days...even the Vette could not have held it all. Rented a Chrysler Pacifica out there and that was great for all the luggage we had. However, I would have killed to have the Vette on the drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff, especially Sedona to Flagstaff. Incredible scenery and tons of twisties.
    As for pads, I did not notice any stopping distance difference between the stock pads vs. the ceramics for normal everyday driving. They may have a longer stopping distance but not something you could notice in normal driving. As for prices, I got front and rear ceramics for $147.18 including shipping. Don't think I could have gotten stocks for that price.
    For track use, I have used Carbotech Panther Plus and they are great. Cost was $283.00. Also tried EBC Reds---good stopping power but fronts AND REARS were toast after 5 one half hour sessions. This was in early '02 and I have been told they have been improved from a longevity standpoint. Currently using Hawk HP PLUS (about $210 for fronts and rears). Am very satisfied with them but they dust like crazy and are very noisy so it's in for the track and back to ceramics after.
    Any high temp pad is going to dust big time and also be noisy and some will eat rotors for lunch so I look for a rotor friendly pad with great stopping power. The above all fill the bill.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am glad you had such a good road trip in AZ! It is indeed a magical area! I have done the places you mention in the vette!! :) The vette has also been to Death Valley, (104 degrees at Badwater) and at another time made a trip in a driving rain from Las Vegas NV to Grand Canyon. Another one was in Monument Valley! Something about those desert areas is so mesmerizing!

    Thanks for the heads up on the pads. I have been going through brake pad analysis paralysis of late. :(:) When I decide to take it to the track I will for sure get the ones that you have mentioned (Carbontech Panthers and or Hawk HPS's)! For sure, rotors and pads have different heat ranges and performance and longevity issues on the track vs street.

    For street use, I have the 2001 oem front and rear pads as back up and the Performance Friction's are the ones I am itching to try! Supposedly gentler on rotors.

    I have been using Performance Friction carbon metallic on Toyota Landcruiser's. I went ahead and tried the Ferodo's on one TLC So it should be an interesting comparison!
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Actually, the OEM pads do fairly well but the others mentioned have a ton more bite.
    Maybe this has been discussed before, but if you do a driving school, swap the brake fluid for a higher temp one. Am currently using ATE but any high temp one will be better than stock stuff. Motul is another. One thing you don't want is boiling fluid and a spongy pedal.
    I have come to know that stopping is more important than hitting 150 on a long straight! Getting to 150 is a "rush", but being able to slow to a speed you can take that inevitable corner is a MUST!
    Cast that in stone!
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Amen there! :)
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    I switched from stock pads to Z06 pads on stock rotors in my coupe. They did a good job for two days at Buttonwillow but it was very nice, 70's weather, so things didn't get too hot. Several have said that when getting started I'm not likely to reach the limits of the stock system until I get beyond the process of learning the track and how to drive at speed. I kept the stock pads, which were at 50%+ all around, after 22k miles and 3 1/2 track days, so I don't seem to be tearing it up. They will provide backup in case I need to replace something to get home. Next two days will be at Spring Mountain outside LV weekend after next. Planning CA 178 out of Bakersfield one morning through Trona and then up through Death Valley and down to Pahrump, all Corvette weekend.

       Thanks as well for the inputs on what might work in the future.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Have a great trip! It should be lovely this time of year! But even if it were not, you are going in a VETTE! :)
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Back from two days at Bragg-Smith and Spring Mountain Raceway. 68 Corvettes with about 80% C5's a few C4's and a neat little '65 Vert with 350 engine, set up for the track. With just a half dozen events and running on runflat tires on Saturday I was passing some of the Z06's in the Novice group, some took it better than others ;). Neat but also ate the front tires, that's another story. Since it was a pretty low key event and about 30+ of the drivers had never been on that track before, and no riding instructors, I then got a Nor. Calif. guy in his Z06 to shadow me during an afternoon session and he picked up the line really well staying with me easily when I had finally maxed out. Never passed him again after that. Great group of Corvette folks, lots of gals driving too, and nice BBQ with band Saturday night. If you want to learn to really drive a Z06, Bragg-Smith is the place to go.
       As for the coupe compared to the Z06 class cars I drove last September it was surprisingly close, about 4 seconds when I got off the run flats. I'm giving up about 40hp and some gearing/rev limit but once up to speed there are only a few places to use all the power so not too far off. It was a blast!
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Starrow---You are making me drool all over my keyboard. It's been a long winter and I still have 5 weeks to go before I hit Road America, obviously my favorite track as it is long (4+ miles) and I can use all that torque to my advantage. Your post just makes me want to push the calender quicker.
    These events are a blast.
    How long is Spring Mountain Raceway? # of turns??
    You drive your own car like in a driving school??
    Just curious.
    I am MORE than ready for the summer. Cheers!
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    The driving school was 3 days in the school Z06's, back in September. The weekend I just completed was 1100 miles round trip in my own coupe for two days on the track, no instruction except for questions in the paddock, about 220 miles of track time. That's why I let the Z06 guy shadow me to get the line quicker than by trial and error many were using. Try www.bragg-smith.com for more info but the track is 2.2 miles and 10 turns. I was able to get to 110 mph on the back straight but usually just went into turn 8 at the end of the straight about 103 with light braking and late turn in about 80mph, then the apex for 8 is actually the turn in for 9, short braking to set the front down to turn in(not a usual setup from other tracks I've seen), a 90 degree left into turn 9 staying left on exit to have better angle into a sharper 90 degree at turn 10 to go up pit row. Only wall at the track, you don't want to oversteer! Hit about mid 80's and brake into turn one sweeper which on run flats I entered in high 50's but on GY supercar tires I entered low to mid 60's, holding speed through back to back sweepers over 180 degrees each with exit about 70mph at WOT as you start the unwind from turn 2 exit, great fun. Get the impression that I enjoyed it? :) Better have a little oil overfill for those. It's been a fantastic winter. ;) Done 5 different tracks since last September and both directions on two of them making it more like 7. Got to love California.

       I think that Bragg-Smith sets up two Corvette only weekends in the late winter and early fall since it's just outside Las Vegas and they are closed for the summer. I think Rupert goes racing some for the summer. The track is basically a test facility that GM and many others use to test new engines and doesn't have any spectator facilities, etc. They have 9 Z06's for classes that are usually run with 8 students. Three days (M/T/W) for the basic class and 2 days (Th/F) for the advanced class. The weekends and non class days are mostly rented to groups that want track time since they are only 3.5 hours from LA basin. There was semi trailer with 6 Cobra replicas w/302cid's there the Friday I arrived run by some guy that takes his fleet to various tracks for those willing to pay the price.
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    love2skicar1love2skicar1 Member Posts: 5
    Am in the market for a used 2nd car for weekend fun. Have looked at Boxsters and 911's but am having trouble with the price you have to pay for what you get. I have always admired Corvettes but admit I don't know that much about them. I would like to get a good value since I won't be able to drive it that much. My question is: is there a sweet spot to the market e.g. a year that is a really good value if you find the right car? There seems to be a big price break between the model ending 1996 and the 1997+ -- is the current model that much better than the old one?

    For example there are a number of 1996 LT4s for sale around $20K with 30K miles which seems like a pretty good deal. OR would you recommend getting the newer model but with higher mileage e.g. a 1998 with 60K miles for $25K. Thank you.
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    avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    love2skicar1, the C5 (1997 - 2004) is a significant improvement over the C4. starrow68 can elaborate chapter and verse, since he has a C4 and a C5. Some comparisons come to mind:

    Chasis. The C5 has hydro-formed chasis members that provide a much stiffer platform to attach drivetrain components. Better handling is one of the benefits that result.

    Electronics. The extent of computerization of the C5 is much greater than in the C4. Computerization has dramatically improved the Corvette's drivability. You can still lose it if you work at it (can't re-write the laws of physics...); however, there is a greater margin of safety.

    Ride quality. The C5 has a better ride than the C4. The 2003 models were available with magnetic selective ride control (MSRC). MSRC acts to dampen oscillations in real-time (less than 1 sec response). What this means in real world terms is that if you get into a section of road that has dips, at speed, the car could start bouncing around with even the competition Z51 suspension. With MSRC, the oscillation stops in less than 1 second. Additionally, the driver can change from comfort to sport settings as the car is being driven. With the comfort setting, the car rides better than a Lexus. C4 owners that I have taken for rides in my C5 are amazed at the difference that MSRC makes in the ride quality.

    Gadgets. Later models of the C5 could be ordered with a Heads Up Display (HUD). The HUD will display variables such as vehicle speed, engine speed, oil pressure, etc. onto the windshield in front of the driver. The benefit is that you don't have to take your eyes off the road while driving at extra-legal speeds.

    starrow68, any additional items?
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    diver110diver110 Member Posts: 67
    I am considering a Cadillac CTS V, which of course has the Z06 engine. My inclination is to wait for the 2005s given the adage never to buy a car in its first year. That aside, forgive my ignorance, but how good is the Z06 engine? If I don't race it, what kind of mileage can I expect? The competition for me is a 2001 BMW M5.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    I'd recommend the C5. When the C5 hit in '97, the car mags raved over the improvements which AVOLVOFAN referred to.
    I bought a '01 Z06, drove some 2 years, logged something like 30k miles and it was just as tight as the day I bought it. I traded it for an '03 Z06.
    C4 and prior vettes seemed prone to rattles/squeaks and I think the "build quality" was what the car mags were referring to when they described "vast improvement".
    I think the prices you mention reflect this attitude. Good luck.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    I've had 2 Z06's. The engine is VERY STRONG, albeit one that is referred to as ancient because it is a push rod.
    My experience with my Vettes is 18-20 mpg in city driving and 28-30 highway. The Vette has a very tall 6th gear, hence the awesome highway mpg.
    It will certainly depend on gearing in the Caddy.
    Going from memory here, but I think my Z is running about 1700rpm at 70 mph in 6th gear. I'd actually go out and check right now but the car has been spit polished and it is now raining.
    The M5 is an awesome car. Never owned one but have a friend with one. Pick and choose I guess....don't think you could go wrong with either one.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am pushing 61,000 miles on a 2001 Z06 engine. In fact I just drove it R/T to the Yosemite area, CA. So far it ranges from 24-32 mpg. It has a 6 speed manual with an 11-12% drive train loss. So an automatic would have upwards of 15-20%. Not adjusted for weight (typically 1-2 mpg per 100 #'s), the Z06 weighs in at 3115#'s
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    diver110diver110 Member Posts: 67
    Sorry, I phrased my question poorly. How many miles can I expect the engine to last assuming no racing?
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No problem, At 60k, it feels like at least to 200k if not 250k.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    As noted above, C4 is much less desirable than C5. I got the '95 Coupe last year for mid 16's with only 18k miles and now has 26k. Advantage was that it had very low miles, garage kept and perfect interior/exterior. Disadvantages, rougher ride, entry/exit - 4 inches higher than C5, just feels older but nice for a daily driver to the train. Your prices on C4's seem high and you might want to look around to local Corvette clubs where someone wants to trade up since the values on C5's have been dropping since 9-11 and intro of the C6.

    The C5 is amazing, got the Z51 performance suspension and 6 speed and my wife thought the drive home was super, great comfort for a long distance touring car. (I wouldn't take the C4 over 200 miles, just for comfort reasons) The mileage in the C5 with 6sp is astounding if you can keep off the throttle, good luck! Pricing in the early C5's seems to be down in the mid 20's vs. mid to low teens for the later C4's. Again check out the local Corvette club, finding a show car that someone mostly polishes is worth a few K since it is less likely that the car ever went to the track. Might also try www.vetteweb.com for the latest price issue on Corvettes, very good but note the fact that it is asking prices, not sales prices.
    Great car if you want a deal since with the new 400 hp model set to debut lots are getting set to move up, again. Corvette people seem to have had more than one.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    In the C4's for more than 20k you should be able to get a ZR1 for 25k up to 30k for a really nice one. High mileage C4's don't age well in my opinion but the C5's I've seen still seem solid.
       Interesting issue, but I'd get a C5 if possible but try to determine from the shop records if it was anything beyond a touring car. I've got new brakes on mine at 23k miles and tires as well, and it's been tracked some, not heavily.
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    skeezixskeezix Member Posts: 45
    I just returned from a road trip to Texas. My 2003 Z06 ran over 1600 miles with an average gas mileage of 26.9 MPG. One tank returned 31.9 MPG. I had a blast!!!People say nobody buys a Corvette for its gas mileage, but it sure doesn't hurt when a car with 405 hp can get gas mileage like that.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Amen to that!!
    When I bought my '01 Z06, I had no idea as to EPA estimated mileage. Didn't buy the car for that.
    I flew to Michigan to pick it up and after 300 miles of driving back I just knew I had a gas guage problem as the guage read between 1/4 and 1/2 tank. I pulled off and filled the tank...just over 11.5 gallons!
    Later did a trip (600 miles) up north thru Wisc and Minn driving 75-85 and got around 28. On the way back did the 65-70 and got just under 30.
    Will be making the same trip this Friday and will see if the '03 is any different.
    It's a tall 6th gear but the torque is all over the rev band so if you need to pass, leave it in 6th, push the go pedal and there is no problem.
    Certainly impressed me.
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    gjpgjp Member Posts: 1
    my 2002 corvette convertible is also making "clunking" sounds when hitting bumps. It also seems to be coming from the dash near the heads up display. where you able to find out what was wrong?

    thanks...
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    hippdoghipphippdoghipp Member Posts: 1
    She's a beauty. Polo green, 40k miles, glass top. Asking $12,900 and I think it's a steal. I've never bought anything like this before, so is there anything I should worry about? The car is in mint condition (I checked it out today). Carfax report was clean.

    Just wondering if there are any notorious mechanical problems I should be looking out for in a 91. I feel bad because this will be my every day car, even through Kansas City winters. I hate to do it to this car but I can barely get my wife to agree to this car, much less keeping a third. Many thanks for any replies.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    http://www.vetteweb.com/features/0404vet_price/

    I've found the info helpful in the past. They publish yearly in the May issue. Note that they make a big deal about the prices being asking and not what sales are done at. Just noticed that the '95 Coupe is not on the list but extrapolating the 94 to 96 Coupe I get $17k for Good condition. A year ago I got a '95 with 18k miles/auto that is perfect exterior but had issues about rodents camping in the engine compartment. I got it for mid 16's on a special deal so it is still looking good. Your price under $13k seems very much as good a deal if it was garaged which is likely with only 40k miles on a 14 year old car.
       On the glass roof, I've got it also and the car is my daily driver which means I use it to the train station AM/PM. On sunny days, I avoid taking that car since I'm not a sun worshiper, it gets hot quick, but the a/c is still good so that helps with a ballcap when needed.
       That has the L98 engine which some term the 'stump puller' and I've got the LT1, don't know the differences. Usually good to ask an owner for maintenance records if you can get them. My version has an issue with leaking intake manifold gaskets which I'll have to take care of some day but I don't know the issues with the L98. Check some of the Corvette specific boards.
       Check out the local Corvette clubs, your wife might like the social side of owning a Vette.
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    bonfigbonfig Member Posts: 14
    I'M LOOKING AT A 96 GRANDSPORT. IT HAS 61000 MILES ON IT. IT HAS A NEW CLUTCH AND BRAKES AND LOOKS CLEAN INSIDE AND OUT.WHAT PROBLEMS CAN I ENCOUNTER WITH THE HIGH MILES. AND WILL IT LAST FOR 100,000.THANKS.
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    inveraryinverary Member Posts: 1
    I WOULD LIKE AN 04'C-4 COUPE (YELLOW).I HAVE G.M. DISCOUNT,AND THE DEALER IS OFFERING $2000.00 OFF.WILL THE DEAL GET ANY SWEETER IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS WITH THE 05'IN THE PLANT? I'M NOT IN A HURRY AND CAN WAIT.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    inverery--
    I presume you mean C5.
    2k off is nothing! Assume you mean off sticker. I think they are going 6k+ off at a lot of dealers. I also think there is a 2k rebate out there now.
    Now, as to your GM Discount, do you mean supplier discount or the GM family one. The GM family one puts the number below invoice.
    Don't have the numbers handy but will try find this afternoon and post.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    There is a 2k rebate on '04 Vettes or like 1.9 financing.
    Also, there is roughly a 14.5% markup on Vettes.
    e.g.--'04 coupe has a base MSRP of 43,835; invoice is 37,556. Options marked up 14%, so if you want to get real close to dealer cost, take the base MSRP and multiply by 85.5%; add all options and multiply that by 86%, then add freight of 800 and you should be real close to dealer cost, not considering the hold back which is about 3% of sticker.
    If your dealer is going 2k off sticker as I mentioned before, he is merely giving you the rebate now out there. There is 6k+ in profit without any rebates/holdback. If you shop around a bit, 6k off sticker is a MINIMUM discount.
    You said you are in no hurry...good, as the C6 will hit stores in late July/early Aug.
    Any C5's left over will will be subject to a "fire sale" and even higher rebates as I suspect there will be a surplus of them in dealer inventories.
    Patience truly is a virtue at times.
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    bigmike5bigmike5 Member Posts: 960
    inverary- Look at Kerbeck, CorvetteKing, and CorvetteConti all on the net. Minimum should be about $9-10K off the sticker given the deals these sites are showing.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    There seems to be almost $7k between invoice and MSRP. Web dealers are giving this up except on the Z16 option on the Z06. Add to that the $2k rebate if you don't want the low rate financing and you have great deals at almost $9k under sticker. Some are going lower that I've seen. Considering another C5 given that C6 will be up a little in price and getting deals will be difficult for some time.
       The bottom line, if you shop local you pay, most likely, if you shop the web you save, most likely if you do a good job. Good luck.
       Not to forget some C5 colors are going out of production as soon as next week according to one thing I saw. Finding what you want as opposed to what is available/leftover will become the issue.
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    bigmike5--
    Not so sure about your comment of a MINIMUM of 9-10k off sticker. Think you have to look for a few hitches here.
    Take a sticker of 50k; 14% markup or dealer invoice about 43k. That's 7k, now add the 2k rebate and you are at 9k off. That leaves the dealers only profit of the holdback, about 1,500 so at 10k off dealer is pocketing $500. Now, if that dealer has some floor plan charges against the car, that $500 is long gone. Not many will send a car out the door and lose money on the deal.
    I would be interested in any dealer add on packages.
    Here's the scoop....had an '01 Z06 and was interested in going to an '03. This was last summer when the '04's were about to come out. Found the mate to my '01 (had to be Millenium Yellow) at one of the biggest Vette dealers in the country. Yes, he would deal off invoice; yes, he offered me what I wanted in trade, and then subtract rebates. OK, I was at bottom line # and advised I would drive out and make the trade. Wanted to confirm actual numbers and SURPRISE, his # was $995 higher than mine. We go over the figures and all is well until the "dealer added feature". It was a $995 charge for "paint/upholstry protection, locking lug nuts" and maybe some other thing. A pure profit item for the dealer. I said I didn't want that crap....no matter, "It is standard on ALL our cars". While the deal was still quite good, I told the salesman to forget it as these "packages" just grind me. Even assuming they did the paint/upholstry bit, it's merely a polish/wax and maybe a spray can of scotch guard...and where the hell do you put that???? Interior is leather so spray some scotch guard on the mats..wow, must cost 50 cents...and my '01 came with locking lugs as standard equipment.
    Another caveat could be "dealer handling" or "processing fee". These should be in the $50 range. Have heard of dealers who have this charge at $495.
    Point of all this is that discounts may not turn out as well as one would think.
    And yes, I did find a dealer with the Yellow I wanted; no games; deal done! His paper work fee was $45.
    I despise "games" that are often played and unfortunately, they may well work 90% of the time.
    Too bad.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    This was the source of my Corvette and there are no adders!
    In Stock:

    2004 Corvette Z06 (#24240)
    Preferred Equipment Pkg 1SA
    Front License Plate Frame
    Body Side Moldings
    Drivers Memory Package
    Electrochromic Mirror Package
    Millennium Yellow Exterior
    Black Interior

    MSRP $54235
    Dealer Invoice $48071.23

    Sale Price $46969 ($1102.23 under invoice)

    Less $2000 Chevrolet Rebate or GMAC financing

    Net Price $44969 after $2000 rebate

    2004 Corvette Convertible (#24188)
    Preferred Equipment Pkg 1SB
    Front License Plate Frame
    Body Side Moldings
    6 Speed Transmission
    Magnesium Wheels
    Remote 12 Disc CD Changer
    Z51 Performance Handling Package
    Magnetic Red II Metallic Exterior
    Oak Convertible Top
    Oak Interior

    MSRP $56555
    Dealer Invoice $50067.88

    Sale Price $48896 ($1171.88 under invoice)

    Less $2000 Chevrolet Rebate or GMAC financing

    Net Price $46896 after $2000 rebate

    2004 Corvette Convertible (#24145)
    Preferred Equipment Pkg 1SC
    Front License Plate Frame
    Body Side Moldings
    6 Speed Transmission
    Remote 12 Disc CD Changer
    Z51 Performance Handling Package
    LeMans Blue Metallic Commemorative Exterior
    Shale Commemorative Convertible Top
    Shale Commemorative Interior

    MSRP $57310
    Dealer Invoice $50724.73

    Sale Price $49530 ($1194.73 under invoice)

    Less $2000 Chevrolet Rebate or GMAC financing

    Net Price $47530 after $2000 rebate
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Starrow--
    Those are awesome numbers.
    I ran your figures on a site I look at, you know, build your own car, which gives invoice as well as sticker prices.
    I only ran the first two you mentioned, the Z06 and the convert.
    Sticker prices came out exactly the same but where you show the Z06 having an invoice of 48,071, my site showed 47,537. The convert you show as having an invoice of 50,067. My site indicates 49,258.
    It's only a 5-800 difference and I frankly don't know whose numbers are correct.
    Either way, it's a good deal.
    Makes me wonder though, there are factory to customer rebates that are well publicized; there are also factory to dealer rebates that are not so well publicized. You don't suppose GM is having some of those secret ones???
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    That data is a cut and paste from a newsletter so the numbers are from a dealer, fairly remote, but I don't think they change invoice by area. There is a possiblity that GM did another price increase, which they have done several times a year since '02 and the lower numbers are old data. But as you note, a good deal, I'm checking if there are any more allocations to get exactly what my wife wants at those prices and figure that for $10k less driving a C5 while waiting for the C6 deals to get better won't be too much of a hardship. I'll probably get more out of 400 hp than she will in any case ;).
       And if the dealer in this case wants to keep his rebate after getting me $2,200 to $3,000 below invoice, still looks good. I paid 15% more to have fun the last 2 1/2 years, and very glad I did, can't get back time!
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Agreed. Patience is truly a virtue when car shopping. For anyone interested in a C5, now is the time....may get even better in a month or so as GM will want most all C5's off the lot when the C6 hits the dealers. All depends on the model/equipment you want and whether you can wait out for the best $$$. Been there/done that!
    Started shopping for a Z06 in May '01. Best I could do was sticker + 3500. Late May it was sticker. By July I bought (from an out of state dealer) and got like 5k off sticker. Two months and 5k savings made me a happy camper.
    Last summer looked to trade for an '03. Ended up doing so in August. Not necessarily smart in doing so but the '04's were out and there was no change from the '03's so what the hell, why not. I needed tires on the '01...think that is what I told my wife. Really wanted a fresh warrenty plus the 20 horses the '03 had over the '01 plus I got the heads up display. Worth it?? Probably not but that "instant gratification" is worth something right?
    I'm currently chomping at the bit for the C6 Z06. It's 15 months away and when they hit it will be the same old story...wait a bit and save some serious cash or jump in for that 'ol nemesis, "instant gratification".
    At my age, I think the "instant gratification" may rule the roost this time, especially if they meet their goal of 500 ponies and a 2900# car.
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    bigmike5bigmike5 Member Posts: 960
    Never dealt with them so I don't know, but look at the Kerbeck site [largest Corvette dealer in US per the record books] where they list several examples of deals available, and a raft of instock and inbound models to which the discounts apply. I even printed some out so I can deal, hopefully, with my local guy for an 04, barring that, a plane ride to AC, Cleveland [Spitzer Chevy] or Dearborn/Detroit[Corvette King]is not out of the question.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Instant gradification sounds good but don't pass up on the web. There were several dealers that took early order books with $1k down to sell C6's at MSRP and after about a month of that there were a few that came along with $500 off MSRP. Most are well into their expected C6 allocations for 2004 & early 2005 but I bet it will repeat with the Z06. The internet dealers know that if they get your business from out of their area then it's a unit that wouldn't sell otherwise. In Vettes it's all about keeping the allocation.
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    bigfrogbigfrog Member Posts: 27
    Do any of you vett owners feel like suckers now that the gto is out for a lot less then the vett but is the same drive train.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Costs less and same drive train. So? It's got a back seat and weighs in at 3700#'s about 15% heavier and seems to make a nice daily driver for someone who wants to haul people. It's quarter time is about 7/10ths slower, so I think basicly it's a different set of wheels. From the Motor Trend review it got fairly high marks, hard to reference where to find that since the one I found says it's dated December 2004, which I take to be a misprint from 12/03. They also speculate that a 'more muscle' version will come along which could be the LS6 or the LS2 I would guess. If someone wants to spend less, go for it, I'll keep the Vette and enjoy the track much more I think. :)
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    gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    I think starrow hit it on the head. Lots of +'s for the GTO but it is really PHAT at 3700#. I'm not a bit sorry for buying the Vette as I am on my second Z06.
    Horses are but one minor element. Weight/suspension are HUGE in fun factor cars and unless I want to go to a 911TT at three times the price, I'll stick with the Z06 and smile all day long.
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    fuzzywuzzyfuzzywuzzy Member Posts: 958
    Any tips on what I should be paying? Real world #'s? I know the stickers, & invoices, & also saw a $3K rebate. The few dealers I looked at had them priced with the rebate down from sticker not invoice. I haven't talked to any saleguys yet & was just looking.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Look for Corvette sites on the web with supporting dealers, one example from posting:
    MSRP $54100.00 to $55600.00 disc. $10,600.00 Aprox. 24 available
    MSRP $48600.00 to $54100.00 disc. $9500.00 Aprox. 20 availab

       Most others listed MSRP and want people to make an offer hoping you didn't do much research and they will get more. These are all long distance deals unless you just happen to be local but I'm in Nor. Calif. and am about to get my 2nd Vette from Montana. Tacking a vacation on the pick up and saving anywhere from $3k to $6k and not having to get highjacked by local dealers makes it very worth the effort. Good luck. Try corvetteforum.com and corvetteactioncenter.com, there is some duplication between them. Let us know how you do.
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    jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    starrow68:

    Aren't there tough rules regarding cars for California insisting that they be certified for California emissions.

    When you buy a car from a Montana dealer is it a California certified car ? What are the issues with buying from Montana ?? How do you get your car ? - Is it shipped or do you have to go get it ??
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I forget the exact model year that the Corvettes went to a CA state legal (50 state) designation. So they are all smogable in CA.
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    starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    ruking1 is correct, I found out in 2001 that even though I ordered my 2002 with CA emissions cert from the factory since it was delivered out of state I had to get smog cert to register it at DMV. Turns out all cars, any of the 50 states are now smog legal in CA since 2000, we are no longer much stricter than the rest of the country or the mfg's are now just making everything to one standard.
       I elected to pick up the last one in Montana, fly up and dealer picks us up at close airport and we have dinner, do a test drive, fill out any paper work before dinner and the next morning we sign off on the deal and drive away. Expect to do the same again in about 4 weeks. The alternative is to find a local dealer who, for a fee, will take delivery and prepare the car for you, I've seen from a couple hundred to just under $500 at the worst. Some have noted that Caddy dealers are sometimes easier to deal with than the local Chevy dealer that lost the sale. That would be cheaper than pickup but the wife and I both like the drive through Yellowstone, the Tetons and about mid Nevada it's broken in so I just might see it run up a little on the speedo if I find an open section of freeway. :)
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    jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    starrow68:

    Yellowstone is great but I suspect that you are not really saving any money. Look what it costs you to take delivery of your car in Montana.

    1) Airplane ticket for 1 or 2 people
    2) Hotel(s)
    3) over 1000 miles on your Vette
    4) Costs for meals etc.
    5) several days of your time

    Next time consider letting your local dealership have a whack at your business. Tell them the exact discount that you will be getting. Unless there are some Corvette volume discounts available as a manufacturer to dealer incentive, I bet that they'll come pretty close in the end.

    Just so you know, post your strategy over on "any Questions for a car dealer" or "real world trade-in values" . Terry (who owns a car dealership) will give you a straight answer.
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