Corvettes and all things about them

avolvofan

Based on the GMAC payment estimator, you should be looking at around $740/month in lease payments. Credit problems would increase the amount; higher down/trade-in would reduce the amount.

Regarding buying used, determing how the previous owner treated the car is something of an art. The best potential purchase is one where you can talk to the previous owner about the car. Things to look for are the maintenance records. If the owner took the car in for service religiously (all service intervals were performed at the earlier of time or mileage) and premium maintenance was performed (e.g. Mobil 1 was specified for the oil changes, brake fluid was flushed at a minimum of every 2 years, etc.), you can probably infer that the car was well-cared for. An absence of a comprehensive service history tends to indicate the opposite. Additionally, you can check the warranty repair history by running the VIN through a local Chevrolet dealer. If there are a lot of warranty repairs, you probably want to avoid the car.

Hope this helps.

jeff193

Hey guys...\
thanks so much for the help..

I went to a dealer here in virginia, and he was trying to sell me a 97 Vette, with a C5 Body, silver, with the moonroof, 67000k miles on it. the exterior is SCratcheless..there is not one scratch on the body, the interior is great every thing works fine, the passenger seat is just a bit loose.

I was just wondering what hte performance numbers on the 97 are, is it 345hp and 350lb ft of torque.

Also its a 2 owner car and there are no serivce record, but heres why i love it,

21000$ for a c5 body 1997 with 67000 miles.

he can also sell me a warranty for 1500$ which covers everything except cosmetic, like some one scratches your car.

What do u guys think im in college, i can walk out the door paying $21,000 tags titles warranty and car.

My question is, how much do you think the car can go, ill drive it fast maybe floor it once a week, park it in a covered garage, what do u guys think. buy it or look else where.

Its silver.??
Thanks in advance.

starrow68

You didn't say if 6sp or auto. The '97 was the first year and as with all new models it had a few problems. Have you asked for the VIN listing of all warranty work done on the car, the dealer can provide even if not done at that dealer. You say the warranty is $1500 and price is $21k but say $21k out the door including warranty, not clear what you are paying.

The performance is probably close to my '02 6sp and with so/so driver I've done 13.3x in the quarter at 107, should do about 12.9 at about 111mph with some one who is good.

Be careful going Wide open throttle, it has a lot more torque than most and is easy to lose it, seen it done at the track and damage repair is expensive, if you are lucky enough to get away with hurting anyone. Keep it on the track.

Don't forget to wave.

jeff193

Im sorry, i meant he would reduce the price and let me walk out the door paying that much... It is an Auto.

Do u think i should purchase it, will it be reliable, as it will be my only car?. i wont be driving it in heavy rain as i have freinds with Suv's and We hardly get snow here?

b4z

Have you checked with your insurance agent?
At your age I bet insurance is a couple of grand a year.

b4z

Before I bought it I would have it checked out by a mechanic and a body shop.
Things to look for:
You said that it doesn't have a scratch on it.
What about the front end I would expect there to be nicks in the paint from stones and rocks. Are there any? If not it has probably been repainted.

Mechanical:
Have someone start it up cold while you stand behind the car to see if any blue smoke comes out of the exhaust pipes.

While the engine is running put it in reverse then drive then reverse again.
It should immediately go into gear. If there is any delay then there might be tranny probs.

Drive the car at various steady speeds 35,45,55, etc. and listen for any rearend gear whine.
If you hear a whine take your foot of the gas.
If it goes away then there might be some differential probs.

Also have someone drive the car away from you and see if it tracks true. No crabbing down the highway.

Check carfax for accident histroy.

starrow68

http://palmeter.com/CorvetteTimelineW11P06a.htm

rpgolfer

My insurance carrier informed me that my premiums would increase from $900/yr for my '84 to $1500/yr for a new '04. Does this sound like a reasonable increase to you guys? I am maintaining full coverage with a $1k deductable. I live in the SF Bay Area (where EVERYTHING seems to be more expensive, reg gas is $1.72/gal).
Thanks

gbjerke

It's very difficult to start comparing insurance rates. It varies so much with area of country, whether you are accident/ticket free, age etc.
On one of the Corvette boards there has been discussions on this issue and premiums vary WIDELY to say the least...some at less than $500 per year to $4000 per year.
Vettes to me are cheap to insure...maybe it's because a bunch of us old farts drive them.
Good example, in '01 I sold my '97 Supra Twin Turbo for which I was paying $625/year, and bought a new '01 Z06. Called the company to change cars and they advised that they would be sending me a refund as the Vette was going to tun $500/year. When I traded the '01 for an '03 Z06 the premium went up $28 for the year. Each year since '01, the premium has gone DOWN!
Damn few advantages of aging, but I suspect this is one of them.

b4z

Vettes are cheaper to insure than Camaro/Firebirds due to the average age and the stupid things teenagers and 20 somethings do in their cars.
Been there done that.

starrow68

Might also consider that to replace a $45k new car vs. replace what is now about a $10k or maybe less blue book and increase is par for the course. However, for another older fart I only pay $665 per year for 300/500 and $500 deduct, but then again I have USAA and I think they are very inexpensive and not available to everybody.

94bronco81bmw

Will the c5 zo6 be available for the 2005 model year? Also, Any word on a C6 Z06 convertible on the drawing board for later on? If so... When?

starrow68

No and No! C6 will come in Coupe and Vert with no 2005 Z06. Nobody I read suggests there is a vert Z06 in the future, either.

bhill2

is kind of a bummer. It forces those of us who like to drive topless to choose between that and the higher horsepower. I guess GM feels that it would be too difficult to keep the frame from twisting into a pretzel. Dodge figured it out, though, so why can't Chevy?

gbjerke

GM's reasoning is understandable.
It's all a matter of weight and the fixed roof is lighter. Also, Chev trimmed weight whereever possible in the Z06, going so far as to use thinner glass. You cannot get a power antenna nor a CD stacker either---just a few pounds but when added up, you get more grunt from a 3100# car versus a 3400# one.
I don't remember all the other "minor" items done but 405 ponies in a 3100# sled makes for lots of smiles.
Now, if the C6 Z06 comes in at 500 horses and they hit their weight goal of 2900#....oops, gotta go change my shorts!

ruking1

Yes I think it comes real close to the mark. While it may not seem like a lot there is a hp weight disadvantage of something like 10 hp/#ft torque per 100#'s So just to be even with the Z06's 3100#'s vs 3400#s, the 3400#'s would need 30 hp/#ft of torque just to be even. Keep in mind that the clutch system had to be major reworked up for the "nominal addition" of 20 hp. when it went from 385 to 405. Normally that is VERY dramatic. So part of the Z06's advantage is in what is NOT there!

If the C6 comes in at 500 hp/torque and 2900#s the power to weight ratio goes to 5.8 from 7.65. WOW!

starrow68

Seems that most tracks and event organizers are limiting verts that don't have full roll protection. The Z06 is for use of performance to take to the track. The Vert and Coupe are more touring that can go to the track for fun, but are very comfortable for touring. I know two dual C5 families and they always take the non-Z06 when they go long distance unless they have some performance event at the other end. Just having bigger HP in a vert and then not being able to actually do anything with it legally might be a factor in GM's thinking, and supports taking it to the track if you want to perform. Does the Viper vert have roll protection built in?

tchoyt

Out here in California, there are ads for 04s for 39,995. I am also looking at used, hoping to find the guy that bought it and hasn't driven/raced it. Any recommendations on years, I heard that 2000 and later is the only way to go, heads up display is mandatory. I am leery of dealers, but I am not an used car expert. The most attractive one I have seen from value is 26k for pewter 2000 with 41k miles, 6 speed and hardtop. I just prefer less miles. Anything much later to 02 with 10k miles is getting to be low to mid 30s. Are low miles mandatory? Thanks in advance for your help.

avolvofan

I would imagine that 39,995 is for an entry-level car (without the heads-up display). You are correct in your concept that newer will have fixes/improvements that may not be available for earlier cars. For example, later 2003s got a much-improved fuel system that eliminated erroneous fuel level readings. Probably the best strategy for buying used is to look for a 2002 that has at least one year of the original factory warranty remaining. That way, you are able to get any bugs repaired on the factory's nickel. You probably should also look into getting an extended warranty (like GM Protection Plan) in place before the factory warranty expires. Hope this helps.

oc1dave

"Are low miles mandatory?" No, the LS1 engine is bulletproof, and if it has had the slightest care and been treated half decently, it will run into six figures without any problems. All C5s seem to have the same problems, and all are manageable: Steering column lock issues (bypass available for about $75), wobbly seats(repairable), sensitive to alignment (real wide tires), and the unbelieveably awful Goodyear Runflats (replace them immediately). Buy a C5 without regret and drive it. You will find that is a delightful driver, even in cold weather, and if you avoid getting caught in any blizzards, you can drive it every day all year long. I would stick to a 99 or newer, get a 6 spd, cpe, hdt top or conv, depending on your tastes, and get the active suspension, as it is good insurance if anyone drives your vette who is not used to horsepower.

starrow68

Having spent several months looking for a daily driver in the low to mid teens, finally spent $16.xk, the issue is not the engine to me. All the cars I drove that had 45K up in mileage were very loose and had some damage to interior or weather striping. I only looked at one over 75k miles and no others. The interior does not age as well as the drive train, IMO. If you are someone who wants to work on cars that might be no big deal but to tell the truth, I want to drive.
All the rest of the comments about any C5 issues being livable are very on the mark. Fantastic car. But I didn't understand the comment about active suspension for those not used to HP. I've got Z51 so I can't dial the suspension but not sure what difference that would make. OTOH the active handling has been a savior twice, once due to wide tires in big downpour, got to slow down there. The other time let's just say it was helpful for an over enthusastic driver. In 27 months I've only seen it turn on twice on the road. However, on the track it could come on most laps if I wasn't trying to get to a smooth line on the track, it is a savior, at times.

starrow68

The following link gets to most of the details, there are lots of pic's out now as well, as of last night it's all official.

http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2005/index.shtml

I particually liked the 400/400 HP/Torque in the base car and the Z51 upgrades in the new package. But remains to be seen what the new one costs and what the option prices are.

revdrluv

As beautiful as I anticipated. This is the best Corvette design since the 60's imo. It's not a radical change, but the detail work is marvelous!

starrow68

"The six-speed transmission also has revised gearing when selected with the Z51 performance option. With the Z51, the Tremec is tailored with numerically higher gears to improve acceleration. Also, a lower fifth gear gives the Z51 better fuel efficiency and a higher top speed than base models. To increase durability in sustained high-speed situations, the Z51 and the base European manual-transmission models have a transmission cooler."

    Higher top speed! Too bad there isn't any open limit roads around. I'm guessing that means about 180mph. Where does 'super car' start? And probably a coupe for still under $50K.

gbjerke

contains a lot of details. The new Motor Trend also has an excellent article on the C6, and more pics!
Looks like the General did some serious homework and also listened to the C5 owners complaints.
Car looks terrific.
Only downside is that I will have to wait a year+ to even see the C6 Z06.

revdrluv

Plus side is that the new base coupe C6 supposedly outperformed the C5 Z06 on the track.

gbjerke

Will be interesting to see a comparo of the C6 to the Z06. Looks like the C6 is about 130# heavier but within 5 ponies of the Z. The Z51 suspension should be comparable but the brakes on the C6 look even bigger. Could well be a horserace.

starrow68

I think the articles say that the C6 Z51 should be comparable with the Z06, not that they did much beyond what the Z06 can do today. But, that would be a major leap for the stock coupe with performance suspension, which is what I took around Laguna Seca all day today. Nothing in the slow group could keep up with the Vette but the other two Vette's in the group and I never got close while on the track. One was a Z06 being shared by a Father and Son so they were not getting as much track time. The other was the lead instructor who pulled in behind me in his Z06, a '00, on the main straight as they put up the checkered flag in the last session. I took off first in group and he said he took off last and was trying to catch up for the 25 minute session. Very Fun Day!

oc1dave

starrow68, my faux pas, meant to say "active handling", not "active suspension", as a good option to have. Yes, it will save your butt on occasion, and is really great on wet or icy roads. Did you really get a C5 for $16k? Great deal! I also really like the heads up display as it helps avoid the really big tickets. I was also worried that my wife would not like driving a C5, so I made sure it had tilt tele wheel and sport buckets. My fears were unfounded as she drives it all the time (she thinks the guys are checking HER out!). I like the C6, but I don't see that it is as much of a quantum leap over the C5 as the C5 was over the C4.

starrow68

I figured that it was the active handling. I agree it is great, don't expect I'll buy anything without it in the future.

   The $16.7k was for a '95 and that is a C4, but with only 18k miles at the time it too was a great deal. It now was just over 24k miles and I expect I will deal it before it hits 40k. Fun but as you note, it is a long step behind the C5 in terms of everything, especially ride and generall comfort. Getting in and out is a little bit of a pain, compared to the C5.

   The C6 is going to be better than the C5, it just remains to see by how much after it gets some miles on it. I don't expect I'll look at one until it gets a couple years older. What I expect I'll do is keep the eyes open for a very low miles, late '02 - '04, C5 that has been a garage queen for several years when someone has to trade up. That way I won't feel so bad about tracking my current C5.

zuma13

Saw the new C6 Corvette at the Los Angeles International Auto Show. I must say I was duly impressed. The car is so sleek and attractive. Better proportioned than the C5. The interior, though rather spartan, has a quality about it that was lacking in earlier models. I have always driven exotics and would certainly consider the new C6.

Living in the greater Los Angeles region and having to deal with constant and regular traffic, would cause me to opt for an automatic transmission. Hearing at the car show that the C6 would be equipped with a 6-speed manual or 4-speed auto, I was dissappointed. If Cadillac's XTR and the C6 Corvette are sharing platforms, why can't Chevy use the 5-speed tranny from the XTR in the Corvette. That would make the car so much more appealing and provide customers with a viable alternative to the 6-speed manual tranny.

The lack of a 6-speed, or at least a 5-speed, auto tranny is the only thing that would give me pause to consider purchasing the new C6.

starrow68

http://www.sacbee.com/content/business/auto/story/8067925p-900180- 9c.html

Four month exhibit on Corvette 50th in Sacramento.

Mr_Shiftright

zuma---the XLR automatic tranny cannot take the C6s torque, so they didn't offer it. The XLR engine is detuned compared to the more ferocious Vette.

It's too bad, as at least 40% of all buyers choose a Corvette with an automatic.

ruking1

Automatics are more like 65% for Corvettes!

avolvofan

I may be missing something, but the 4-speed automatic transmission (4L60E) that is presently available serves me just fine. I also have a 5-speed automatic transmission on my Volvo S60 AWD daily driver. To be honest, I don't miss a 5-speed transmission on the Corvette. Given the torque handling ability of the 4L65E (and 4L80E), where is the compelling reason to build a high-torque capacity 5 or 6 speed auto transmission?

starrow68

For the last two years available at Idavette site the MN6 manual was in 47% and 46% for '02 and '01. Looks like more Z06's has raised the level from lower 40's earlier in the C5 run. Having both a manual '02 and an auto in a '95 I can say that driving the manual is lots more fun when you get into a twisty road, or the track. The auto is sure a lot less of a pain in traffic, but I don't get to do that often .

   Interesting look back. Who buys the new model vette? Presumably the real fan with long history and experience as well as money. Well the 40% take rate for manual was true for the two years before '01, but before that the take rate for the first two years of production was only in the mid 20% range. Seems like those who want more performance, I'm suggesting younger drivers with fewer bad knees, etc., wait for the deals to start showing up as the model ages some. Then they jump in and get the 6 speed at 5k under MSRP rather than the 5k over MSRP some will pay early in the introduction.

mikeivan

GM will put a new six speed auto tranny in the C6 in about 2006. Fuel economy and lower emissions are two reasons for the six speed auto over the four speed. In spite of the percentages(or maybe because of), in the C6 the manual is standard and the auto is the optional tranny.

Mr_Shiftright

ruking--is it really that high? I was only going by the R&T owner survey of the C5, which showed 40% of respondents had automatics---so I took that number as an "at least". But 65%, that's interesting.

I've often thought that the Corvette and an automatic are a good match because of the size of the car. But, I mean, a really competent automatic.

ruking1

Yes, I have seen that figure on a few Corvette web sites!

It may be a bit skewed in terms of choice or lack of it in the Z06 Corvette, which is 100% 6 speed manual(this moniker is 10-15% of the yearly Corvette production) . So if you want a Z06 automatic, it is not available. So the next path in the decision tree is; does the Z06 moniker outweigh the lack of choice in the transmission. So IF the Z06 would have a manual/auto choice, I am GUESSING that the auto population would be at least 7% higher for autos. (65 + 7= 72%)

starrow68

"But, I mean, a really competent automatic."

   Since I've never driven a newer auto in a performance car, can they be downshifted, 'smoothly'? I'm not great but I'm learning to heel/toe and when you get it right on a down shift to maintain balance it is amazing near the limits of traction. Until the knees go, hopefully never, I'm going to row the gears since that's what I've always done. Glad to see the MN6 as the standard tranny now since it did seem odd paying extra to get manual.

Mr_Shiftright

Some hi-po cars with automatic, or more appropriately, a paddle--shifted automatic with a clutch, will actually blip the throttle for you, too, as you downshift--so that you don't compression-brake and hurt yourself.

starrow68

dumbing down cars with stability control which has saved by rear on many occasions. Glad I finally learned what heel and toe was before it bacame an art of the past. Thanks for the input.

themiz1

My question could apply to the purchase of any used car...but I plan to buy a used vette soon. I am looking for model years 1995-2000. I am NOT mechanically inclined. I plan to buy form dealer vs a private party so I can get a 1-2 year warranty.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, should I take the car to a trusted mechanic under any circumstances?

How would one handle any objections from the salesman? (such as he says our mechanics already checked it out)

Thanks.

blacktalon

I would walk away quickly from any dealer who was hesistant to let a customer have an independent mechanic check out a used car. This is true of any used car, but *especially* true of high-performance sports cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Sure, of course have an independent check the car out. The dealer is not a "disinterested party" and I really doubt that the line mechanic will be permitted to run the car down. Many problems with a used car are subject to interpretation ("oh, that's nothing, a normal oil drip" or "that noise isn't serious"). Well, maybe so, maybe no.

I think a C5 is pretty sturdy so mostly I'd look out for prior collision damage, obvious neglect and abuse (like checking the inner fender wheels for tire debris) and for a conspicuous lack of service records or car history (Where did this car come from? Who owned it last? What's it's service history?) Oh, a rental unit from Florida bought at auction? No Thanks!

The R&T survey suggests these problem areas to watch for:

Computer-controlled sensors/operating hardware (23% of owners surveyed complained)

Glass & weatherstripping (9%)

Tires (8%)

Battery (8%)

Exterior body parts/trim (7%)

Brake rotors (6%)

As you can see, for the most part the complaints center mostly around build quality or materials quality, not so much mechanicals.

Other than that, the "Worst Quality" about the car was listed as "Quietness" (too noisy inside the cabin) and the next worst was "Quality of Materials".

Best Attributes were, as you might expect "Performance and Acceleration" followed by "Handling".

starrow68

Model year 96 was the last of the C4's and they only made about 10k '97's to start off C5 production. The 95's (I own one) and '96's are solid from what I've heard at Corvette club meetings and such, however, the C4 is a lot less comfortable to drive than the newer C5 (I own an '02). With the above the prices are about what you might expect, late C4's high teens to even low teens, while the C5's are trying to get mid twenties up into low $30's for newer or low miles ones. The May issue of Vette Magazine has a price isssue that covers all year vette's every year and I think you can still find it at vettemag.com, if you do some searching. Since many use the Corvette as a weekend only cruiser, if you are patient you will find a low miles gem, most are really well cared for anyway. OTOH, I admit that I've been to the drags a few times and gone to the track for driving events so the car may look real good but I'm in need of tires at 20k miles and bet the brakes aren't far behind. If you get service records you might get some idea of how it was used, as was noted.

gbjerke

Doesn't hurt to ask for previous owners name/# so you can talk to him. If a dealer says "We don't want to bother our customers", I'd see that as a red flag.
Whenever I have traded a car in I give all the service records to the dealer and advise that I would welcome a call from any prospective buyer. I have received several calls over the years from those potential buyers. I don't B.S. them---give them the facts and I find it difficult to believe that someone would not want to be contacted, or "bothered" as the dealer might say.
Certainly you could be "set up" by a salesmans friend who claims to be the prior "owner" but a few pertinent questions would reveal the truth.
No guarantee for sure, but if I were denied access to prior owner I'd be suspicious.

dave000k

Local Chevy dealers in my area are advertising $9,000-$10,000 off MSRP on new Corvettes. I guess the 2004's are not selling because potential buyers are waiting for the C6. As someone who has longed dreamed of owning a Corvette, I wonder if the C6 is worth waiting for considering the MSRP will probably be higher and not discounted? Thanks.

gbjerke

It's a tough decision knowing the C6's will be hitting the showrooms in about 6 months. Right out the box they will likely have ADM (additional dealer markup)and I suspect MSRP will be somewhat higher than the current C5's.
If you want to be the first on your street with a C6, then you are probably looking at 13-14k more than what you could get a C5 for now. (10k current discount; MSRP another grand and the dreaded ADM). 3-4 monts after that you may well see some discounts off MSRP---it's the old "supply/demand" thing.
When I decided on a Z06 in May '01, the dealer wanted MSRP PLUS $3,500. Two months later in July I bought for MSRP MINUS $5,000. Add the tax on that and it cost me $9,000 less by waiting 60 days. Well worth it to me.
Cannot cast in stone this will happen to the C6's but there always seems to be a fall off at some point.
Then again, instant gratification is something else.
Doubt this helped you much but it is something to gnaw on a bit. Good luck.

kkollwitz

I've only seen pics of the C6s but it seems like its presentation is getting more exotic. I wonder if GM is deliberately aiming at visually putting the car in a more select crowd where it may already be as a matter of performance.