Corvettes and all things about them

blacktalon

Are they offering that $9-10K off the base model, or only versions loaded with expensive options? Because if I were car shopping, a new 2004 Corvette for $34K would be very tempting...

avolvofan

I rather doubt that you will get a 2004 Corvette for $34K. For starters, you would have to order a base (non-optioned) car. Second, the incentives that get you to $10K off MSRP would have to be in place at the time the car arrived, which is a wager I would not want to make.

printz

Does anyone know when production will cease?..Also, are the C6's hitting the showrooms in June or this fall??, I'm hearing differing things.....

starrow68

As you probably know, usually they stop in May/June, do the change over and start in June for June/July deliveries. I'm guessing the change over may take longer in the factory, they will have it planned for as short as possible but model as new as the C6 is going to take awhile. They just might be hedging with comments about available in the Fall to get the first run off for QC before they start or have to start shipping.

starrow68

Read in the Corvette Quarterly that the new auto 'will blip for the driver' if the system senses that the corner has been entered agressively. I didn't know that, times they are a changing.

avolvofan

That would be nice if there was only one way to enter a corner aggressively. Also, what is the determinant of aggressive corner entry? Presumably the metric would be based on some pre-defined setting. What happens if the suspension has been "tweaked"? Is there the ability to change the point at which the blip is triggered? Lastly, is a record stored in the computer of how many times the car has entered a corner too aggressively?

Personally, the idea of a blip if a corner is entered aggressively is one I would rather do without.

ruking1

I have three different vehicle types that I drive interchangeably. One of those has a drive by wire system. For a time when I was doing heel and toe with it, it didnt work right! So I thought, gee maybe this one is different than my Z06. After reading the appropriate service manuals and asking others on that vehicles web pages, turns out that the drive by wire system overrides throttle blips with no apparent load. Also when you are coasting it shuts off completely fuel feed! But then I felt this way about ABS when it first came out! I have since sold my non ABS truck so I am ok now!

highender

my favourite car is still not parked in my garage.....I loved the looks of all the corvettes, but really like the newer models .....

If and when I get one, I'll ask you guys for some advice....My wife loves them too....! So one less hurdle....

have fun motoring.......! :-)

starrow68

I really only wanted to replace a daily driver and with the kid out of college had some money to spend. One thing led to another and now I've been to two road race courses and two different driving schools and don't seem to be totally hooked I'm certainly not being totally practical. Although, since I can now see towing the Vette to some tracks, glad I got the Excursion with HD tow package .

starrow68

Just got my twice monthly email from one Vette source and a dealer in WI is offering new vert with 58k MSRP for 50k or 52k with 60 month 0%. Deals are out there if you look around.

bigmike5

Is the c6 automatic going to have an autostick option like many of the other cars do? I was hoping they would add that feature for those of us with finicky backs who might have a problem pushing the clutch after a back spasm episode.

gbjerke

My understanding is that the C6 auto will be a beefed up 4 speed as in the C5....no "autostick" or paddle shifter.

mikeivan

Initially will be an "improved" 4 speed and in 2006 it will be a 6 speed. I think I read that Dave Hill did not like paddle shifters (he did not like the pop up head lights and you see what happened to them).

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, that's what I've read, too. There is presently no woopty-do auto trans. that can take the torque right at this minute.

I think paddle shifting in a C6 would be pretty neat myself.

blacktalon

Anyone know whether the C6 manual transmission will still have the skip-shift "feature"?

starrow68

will still have the skip shift 1st to 4th. It's an EPA thing that keeps the vette out of gas guzzler tax territory for one thing. I've had it bother me about 5 times total in 2+ years and none of those are in the last year. As something that can be bypassed for about $20 I think many make it out to be a much bigger deal than it is. On the track it never gets in the way.

Mr_Shiftright

My main gripe about skip-shift is with GM---it's a Mickey Mouse fix on a world-class car, and the principle of it kinda bugs me sometime. But as you say, easily...ahem...remedied.

gbjerke

I put the $20 skip shift in mine but totally agree with Shifty...it's a "mickey mouse" feature.
They say to meet EPA mileage guidelines...what a bunch of baloney. I get near 20 mpg in town and 27-28 on the road.
What one can do is merely run the rpm's up over something like 3000 and you can grab 2nd gear so if you don't want the skip shift fix, you merely run up the rpm's and you avoid it anyway. Like that saves gas!!!! What a joke.

starrow68

I don't disagree that it is a pain to many and seems at least mickey mouse in such a performance car but there are several factors beyond just EPA mileage for gas tax. Each maker has to meet CAFE and if they just eke out a little more it helps the fleet average and the Vette is helping at this point, I think. You may think 27/28 is good but the car will do well into the 30's in 6th under 65mph and that is what gets GM's attention. They are talking about tenths that make big $ differences in fines if they fall short.
   Then there is the shift point. Don't know what others experience but my light goes out at 2100 rpm, that's not a lot of revs in a Vette. As I say, no big deal, at least IMO. Also at that point 3rd is another option with that much torque which only becomes a problem if I go stale at the track and bypass a gear out of habit, not cool .

blacktalon

I find it difficult to imagine that Corvettes sell in the numbers (compared to Cavaliers and Grand Ams) that would seriously effect GM's CAFE totals. If so, then GM is in more trouble than I thought...

I wonder whether they could just put it a "CAGS Disable" switch on the dashboard, like the "Active Handling Disable" switch. Couldn't they then have the EPA tests run with CAGS enabled and use those numbers? (While still making it easy for drivers to bypass CAGS if they so desire.) This seems no different in principle than allowing drivers to manually disable CAGS by revving the engine...

avolvofan

If there is an ability to disable CAGS from the factory, then no credit for the improved gas mileage - which is why it is not there in the first place. If owners do something on their own after the car is sold, well, that is out of GM's hands and so GM gets to keep the higher mileage number for CAFE calculations.

While one would think that the small (relatively) unit production of the Corvette should not matter in calculating CAFE, it does - I had to wait three months after placing my order for a Coupe with the 3.15 differential before it was built (and the dealer had to ask the regional manufacturer rep to intercede - I was starting to lose hope of getting a 2003...). The reason for the delay was the 3.15 differential and the impact on GM's CAFE numbers.

ruking1

There is also another way to bypass the CAGs. One can shift BEFORE the revs when the CAGs is operative.

starrow68

, now there's a solution I never came up with!

BTW, Corvette at about 35,000 units a year is one tenth % of North American and European markets, or 2/10th of US market since most Corvettes are sold here. But since GM is what, say 20% of local market, that would make the Vette about 1% of GM's sales, 1% that is above average rather than below, glad to contribute to driving a better than average 'eco' car.

bhill2

I am old enough to remember GM using every excuse in the book to avoid honoring their warrantees. So I have this nightmare about installing this device, having the engine or transmission fail due to something totally unrelated, and then having GM refuse to fix it because I 'modified' the car. Am I just paranoid or are they really out to get me?

gbjerke

The CAGS is a quick "unfix"---unplug it and plug the original back in.
Also,I think it's called the Magnuson/Moss legislation which simply stated, prohibits declination of warrenty coverage unless the modification is DIRECTLY related to the failure.
i.e., blow an engine when you are running NOS and they have something to talk about.

avolvofan

While it is true that there is Federal and sometimes State legislation that prohibits denial of warranty coverage, the burden of proof is often on the consumer to show that the manufacturer disallowed warranty coverage in violation of the respective law(s). So, if you can put the car back into original condition before going to the dealer, you avoid the possible decline at the outset.

bottgers

How many years has the Z06 been available now? 2-3 model years? Why hasn't Chevy made it available in the coupe and convertable models? Every year the customers and the magazine staffers scream for these models to be made available, and yet Chevy never listens? I have to say I'm with all the screamers on this one. I don't like the looks of the hardtop. I would seriously consider one if they could be had in a coupe.

starrow68

OTOH it seems that GM's issue is to maximize profit and they seem to think they have a working formula. Sell the base engine Coupe and Vert for a couple years to the die hards and let the performance types work with modded older models or pay top dollar to mod a new one. Then come out with 15%+ more HP in the hard top for serious track and autocrossers and sell a bunch more.

However, I too would probably have gotten the higher HP engine in my coupe if available but wasn't interested in the Hard Top so I see the point. But, having 350 HP in the coupe is beyond my current driving skills to get the most out of it so I'm glad I got what I did and am trying to get better at it before moving up another level. Off to work tomorrow, another track day.

gbjerke

The Z06 came out in '01.
The reasoning for no coupe/convert is basically weight. The Z is something like 3-400 pounds lighter than the coupe/vert; firmer suspension etc.
The glass is even thinner in the Z---a few pounds saved. No power antenna; no CD stacker; titanium exhaust...all little things that save weight. It was designed as a performance car with a minimum of creature comforts.
Now, the C6 comes in very close at 400 horses vs. the 405 in the current Z...it also comes in at close to 3500 pounds.

printz

You can get 1 for below invoice now with the 2,000 cash back from GM so I'm buying come April 1st(just not sure of the color)....What an awesome car.....

gbjerke

Hey, go for it...but get something stealthy for a color...like YELLOW!!! Frankly, there is not a "bad" color as such. Black is georgeous but what a handful to keep clean..I'm done with black!!
The vette yellow is awesome to me. Not the lime/yellow you see in some. The paint mix has a lot of black in it...I've seen the formula. To me, it's awesome and I am on my second YELLOW Z06.

printz

Yellow is real nice, but I think I might get tired of it.......I just left a message on the dealers voice mail telling them I was interested in a Mag red, machine silver, or black(not black int.)in a base coupe(I do not like the high polished wheels, nor do I need the heads up display or memory pack)...I'll see what they have in stock or what they can get....
The Zo6 is a beauty(real nice wheels), I like an automatic though.....

gbjerke

I love the Mag Red...if it came in the Z06 I probably would have gone with that.
Unless you want to spend a lot of time polishing/waxing I'd scrap the black. Probably the best color but damn, clean it up, let it sit in the garage overnight and it is full of dust the next a.m.
Also, I don't think you would tire of yellow...I'm on my second yellow and will quickly be in line for the C6 Z06 as long as it comes in Yellow.
Understand if you want an auto...but don't pass on the memory system. It's cheap and really cool as the seats go back when you pull the key. Much easier to get into, especially when you are an old guy like me. Upon entry, put the key into the ignition and the seat pulls forward to your last setting. I love it.
The HUD...matter of preference..no biggy to me.

starrow68

The curb weight on the Z06 vs. the Hatchback is only 98lbs, not 3-400 lbs, according to Edmunds comparison. The Z has the horses and much better tires but even the Z51 coupe is not that bad on the track, even better with the C6 expanded Z51 options I'm thinking. For color the Blues, from Nassau, to Navy, to Electron Blue Metallic, to Le Mans they have stayed from 4th to 3rd most popular I think. Red and Black are mostly tops, but I agree about keeping Black looking good, Blue is hard enough.
   On the HUD, it only takes a day to get used to it and I now regret in every other thing I drive that it's not there. Most handy at the track where taking the eyes off the road at 100 plus or at any speed while hanging on in a corner is not the best way to keep eyes out front where you need to be looking. On the road it is so handy to know the data is there without looking away from some driver you aren't sure is aware of your being on the same road, try it, you'll love it. I also agree about the memory, being very handy to have getting in and out.

avolvofan

If the Coupe moves you, go with it. The 6-speed manual transmission is available on both. If automatic is a must, then the Coupe becomes mandatory. Regarding horsepower and torque differences, there are any number of tuners that can get horsepower and torque numbers out of the LS1 engine that dwarf what comes from the factory in the LS6 engine (or for that matter, the LS2 as well).

Personally, I like the look of the Coupe. Add in the fact that the Magnetic Selective Ride Control option was only available for Coupe or Convertible, and my decision was made. (Also, automatic transmission (I have tendonitis in my left knee, so no clutch work for me) was a must.) I have no regrets about my decision to go with the Coupe.

gbjerke

I'm surprised at the weight difference you mention. I was comparing the weight as I remembered it when my brother and I were comparing. I had an '01 Z and he had an '01 convert. The sticker on my door jamb said 3115# and I remember his as saying 34xx#.
Old age and alcohol will destroy brain cells and it is evident my memory is suspect.
I just looked at the MCO for my '03 Z and it shows shipping weight as 3047. I assume that is with fluids but with a minimal amount of fuel.
Have not seen the weight for the C6 but I suspect it is in the 3200 range.
I've not seen the C6 in real life, but I sure do like the pics I've seen so far.
If I were not so hell bent on the C6 Z06, I'd certainly be looking at the C6.

starrow68

I was looking at the Edmunds data and hadn't looked at the Vert before but here it is:

coupe Curb Weight: 3214 lbs.

Z06 Curb Weight: 3116 lbs.

vert Curb Weight: 3210 lbs.

Must have done a lot since you last looked, I too was surprised at the small differences.

On the C6 I'll wait and see. If the coupe comes in under 3200# then it will be a screamer.

starrow68

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2004/02/15/107- 6825394.26609.7526.8227.html

   Similar to a December run our local Corvette Club does to give rides and holiday gifts at a large non-profit foster home. I think this goes on a lot without getting much press.

ruking1

Yes it is amazing the technological things done to shave off just 100#'s!! A couple of things that come to mind are 1. lighter windshield glass 2. lighter exhaust 3. "shaved" tires and lighter forged wheels .

avolvofan

How about magnesium (or better yet - titanium) wheels?

ruking1

I would be a fan of either or both if they could control the costs and technological concerns. In another life I had been used to dealing with hot brakes on magnesium wheels and in those situations they can damn near kill you if you take the wrong corrective action. (F4E's etc)

On the Zo6 rims, they are a combination of forged (19.6#F/21.4# R and cast/spun(19.2#F/21#R), depending on the year. I also have heard the cross pieces are hollow.

I hope this post doesnt get waxed because I posted the following link.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel22.shtml

The interesting thing is to compare one wheel against another. In some cases it blows the facade that alloy wheels are always lighter! It is more a question of lighter than what?

avolvofan

Ruking1, which year of Z06 wheels were cast/spun vs. forged? I presume you are referring to the 17x9.5 Front and 18x10.5 Rear wheels.

ruking1

Yes. 2001 Z06 wheels were forged. (Alcoa was the vendor I have head) Starting 2002-up Z06 wheels were cast/spun. (Speedline was/is the vendor)

avolvofan

What do you think about the polished wheels for the 2004 Z06? Personally, I like the polished look (but not too polished, as in chrome plated). However, the price for the polished wheels is a bit steep.

ruking1

I personally go back and forth on the wheel issue. I like the chrome and polish look. (eye candy and all) Price is only an issue in that sometimes you can get a new set of tires for the difference and more! In addition, forged wheels are: usually a stronger product 2. not as commonly available as cast and/or cast/spun. 3. Most aftermarket products also weigh more!

No matter what you get, these types of wheels are higher maintenance. So for me, I do advance janitorial services by washing the wheels more than I do the body. Every 6 mo or so, I remove the tires, clean the inside and Zaino the wheels, inside and the exposed portions of the wheel.

starrow68

I've seen several comments in the performance discussions, elsewhere, about aftermarket powdercoated wheels failing. Seems to be due to the heat cycles of the process. I'm not sure if that would be an issue with chrome since I think lots of aftermarket chrome wheels are OEM cores turned in on replacements.

    Ruking1, do you clay before Zaino on the wheels too?

ruking1

My janitorial skills are not that advanced!

gbjerke

I like both the chrome and polished wheels. In fact I had decided to get my '01 Z06 wheels polished/clear coated as I liked the style of the wheels but not fond of the grey finish. It hid some brake dust I guess. I never did anything done with the '01 wheels. When I picked up the '03, that was at the top of my list.
Nobody did the polish/clear locally but found a couple places in the Chicago Burbs, about 70 miles from me. The downside was that I would have to bring my wheels in, sans tires and a week later I could pick them up. So the car would sit on jack stands for a week; I'd have to get the tires peeled and then remounted after the polish.
$600 for the wheels...I figured another $100+ for the peel and mount plus the trip in/out.
Several vendors sell Z06 chrome replicas. They are heavier and may be of questionable quality.
Other vendors do an OEM exchange. They put $2000 on your credit card, ship you the chromies, you put your old wheels in the boxes and UPS them back. When they receive them, your card gets credited $1,300. That's the way I went..even did it thru a tire store. Wheels came in, went down and spent an hour+ drinking coffee and off I went. They did the balance with the stick on weights on the inside so have no ugly lead hanging on the lip of the wheel. They even put on chrome stems and valve stem caps. I love the look but did go to ceramic pads to eliminate the dusting.

avolvofan

For those readers who detest the brake dust that accumulates on their Corvette's wheels, you should strongly consider the ceramic pads that are part of the Durastop Brake Upgrade kit that GM has released for the Corvette. If memory serves, the ceramic pads are available separately, I just do not have the part numbers. There is much less brake dust with the ceramic pads and better braking than the standard pads.

With the ceramic pads, I would venture that ruking1 could defer some of the intensive practice of janitorial skills.

gbjerke

The ceramics are available seperately....very inexpensive also and virtually no dust. Certainly not a pad if you track your car but for everyday use....AWESOME!
I'm headed to Vegas/Phoenix for some sun right now so don't have time to look up the cost etc.
Will be back 3-4 and if there is any interest, post here and I'll get back to you with the details.