BMW 1-Series

dhanley

". This makes me significantly less excited about the 335i."

Really? It's still a rocket and a joy to drive, whatever technology it's using. Isn't that the important part? If they had a pushrod in there, and it had all the positive BMW i-6 attributes (power deliery, NVH, fuel economy, etc), i wouldn't care.

blue330xi

I just dont want lag, I too would like a large displacement but light V8 (think LS7) if they offered it, and I dont care if its pushrod because that can keep weight down. Im just scared that the 335i will be compromised by boost lag. As others have stated I like a linear feel to the HP (what I probably really am fealing is flat torque curve on NA cars). Variable vane and or twin scroll and ball bearing help emulates this because they decrease the time for the turbo to come on decent boost. Your right two small turbos would do the same but without the potential top end of two larger variable vane units.... I dont want to step on the accelerator feel 1 low pressure curve then a wile later bam it comes on boost and another larger torque rush. At the same time I dont want to reach five thousand rpm and feel a big drop in power because the turbos are too small I really like linear. I guess I just have to drive it and see.

dhanley

" As others have stated I like a linear feel to the HP (what I probably really am fealing is flat torque curve on NA cars)."

Um, what i think you are referring to is throttle response, not torque curve. Lots of non-turbo engine have pretty crummy torque curves, and turbo engines often have great ones. The problem is that until the turbo spins up, your 1.8L is just a low-compression tiny engine, and that might take awhile.

I think you're right, the thing to do is to go to a dealer, test one, and tell us if you love it or hate it.

nyccarguy

While I'd LOVE to get my hands on a 135i with the 3.0L TT I6, I've got to be realistic. Price wise I'd probably be more in the market for a 130i (3.0L NA Valvetronic I6) or the 128i.

I think part of the beauty of 2 Turbos mated to a BMW I6 is that you do get the best of both worlds. BMW I6 engines always pull strongly up to the redline. The 2 Turbos give you the extra kick (without the kick) to keep delivery smooth & strong.

blue330xi

yes but I have a 3.0l... The sensation I felt was when driving one of the older 2.0 wrx's.....I should go test drive one....I will go test drive one...

qbrozen

i test drove the 225hp TT. It impressed the heck out of me, especially when I wound it up and dropped the clutch. I really expected it to bog down or something, but it just grabbed and took off, whipping my head back in the process. If I could have fit comfortably, I would have bought that car.

jlbl

New BMW-Series-1 will be here in Europe in May. More power, less emissions and less consume.

118d — 143 hp — 50.04 miles•gallon — 123 CO2gr•liter
120d — 177 hp — 48.00 miles•gallon
118i — 143 hp — 39.87 miles•gallon
120i — 170 hp — 36.75 miles•gallon
130i — 265 hp — 28.34 miles•gallon — 197 CO2gr•liter

as reported by BMW.

All this should be achieved by (a) improvement of Fuel Direct Injection, (b) applying Auto Start and Stop system and (c) Brake Energy Regeneration.

The latter converts kinetic energy into electric energy to keep battery as fully charged as possible. As long as the battery is fully charged , the engine energy is not dissipated in order to move the generator.

Auto Start and Stop system automatically stops and starts the engine depending on whether the engine is idle or accelerated, e.g., in traffic jams or waiting for the green light.

All this except the AS&S is applied to the new Series 5 as well, which also gains power with less consume.

Regards,
Jose

drfill

http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-bmw-1-series-coupe.html

DrFill

ateixeira

I gotta say, as much as I love hatches and wagons, that looks 1000 times nicer than the dorky 5 door. In fact I'd go as far as saying that's hot. :shades:

kyfdx

The convertible will sell like hotcakes... the 3-series convertible already has a tiny back seat, so losing a couple of more inches is no big deal...

The coupe will be a tough sell, no matter how great it looks.. I'd take it over a Mazda RX-8 in a minute, though.. (not that it sells well, either).

wale_bate1

ateixeira

Agree about the convertible. Not enough room even for kids for a 3 hour drive to the beach.

But the coupe will sell - there aren't any affordable RWD vehicles on the market. With 6 cylinder power and RWD, this is the answer to many an enthusiasts' prayer.

Sure, there's the Miata and Solistice, but a roadster doesn't have the broad appeal that a coupe does.

Watch - there will be wait lists.

nyccarguy

That 1 series! Please BMWNA, my birthday is coming up in a few weeks!

fixxxer

I just love the look of this guy. It looks a whole lot like a small and light 3 series thats ready to take america on man. This thing looks like a blast to drive. Now, if BMW could get it to a price point of like $25,000 or $27,000 it'd have the space below the 3 series, and above the MINI, and it'd be reasonable. Kind of the same price as the A3, but if it was the 130i, it'd be a better deal

nippononly

besides me out there that wishes it would have an available 4-cylinder engine when it comes to the States? Or perhaps one of the European diesels?

6 cylinders is overkill in a car this small. But then I always was a fan of the Honda formula of small displacement for its VTEC Integras. Small engines can be just fine, more fun even, in small cars.

When I originally read about the 1-series, word was that they would offer the 4-cylinder in the States. What happened? The latest thing I read last week said 6 cylinders only, the engines from the current 328 and 335. :-(

I know, I'm weird. ;-)

fixxxer

I agree with you, a 4 cylinder makes alot more sense. But, the 6 cylinders only also makes a bit of sense. Think of it this way: BMW is a premium, and they don't want to dilute their moniker of "Ultimate Driving Machine". The American market is very very shallow. People don't like the lower one, they like the Big Engine, the fast one, the sporty one. Diesel and Hatchbacks have not been popular in the states since the 70's, and 4 cylinders are associated with honda and toyota. Now, a 3 litre Straight Six? You can talk about that at the water cooler. A small lightweight coupe? That will look good to the boss. A hot hatchback? Get out of highschool! A Diesel? I only want that in my Dually hemi V8 with one million pounds-feet of torque.

American's don't appreciate hatchbacks or diesels, or small engines. We're kind of dumb I admit it, because I think hot hatches are cool as [non-permissible content removed].

But the 1 series coupe, i think is perfect for the American market. Its a small light fuel efficient, low slung, straight 6, RWD 2+2, that says BMW at the front. Think about someone trying to decide between say, a Civic Si, with some options or whatever, liking the sleek coupe styling and good handeling. Then, seeing a 130i wizz past and they would think: maybe if I just save a bit more money...

The Civic is also a perfect example of the American Market. The old Civic SI, the hatchback, did TERRIBLY even though it was a good car. This new Civic Si, the coupe, is selling brilliantly. We want to look more balling than we actually are, and a cheap fast BMW would look sick as hell.

qbrozen

Heck, forget the 4-cyl! ;b
I probably won't even be interested in the 128. Gimme the 135! Based on the 3-series numbers, it'll probably get 30 mpg but can hit 60 mph in about 4.5 secs. That's just astounding to me. I can't wait!!
of course, i'd be even more excited if it had the utility of the hatchback.

nippononly

When the press talks about the car, they say it is a case of BMW returning to its roots and offering a car for the purists. Not with these huge engines, it's not.

You know, if they made a brand new 2002 today, I would seriously consider it for my next car.

dhanley

Hm. I don't know if we can state categorically that purists *won't* want six-bangers. We might buy the four for the reduced weight and for the fact it'd be a cheaper BMW, but the "2.8L" ( really a three, of course) is actually quite a light engine, and also fairly fuel-efficient, to boot. The car already has 50/50 weight distrubution, as well. But if you sat the average purist down and asked them if they'd give up inline-six smoothness and 60+hp for maybe a grand or two and 2-3mpg, well...

Perhaps when the gasoline turbo fours come online, we'll see those.

ateixeira

I can see your point. The 6 cylinders also require premium fuel, right? These won't be low cost-to-operate vehicles, even if MSRP is $25k.

But I do think a diesel would make the most sense as an alternative.

The catch is the clean turbo diesel BMW costs more than the base 6 cylinder, and nearly as much as the twin-turbo 6 banger. They have to find a way to get that price down.

qbrozen

well, to be fair, even if it had a 4-banger, it would still be a heavy car when compared to the bimmers of old.

Most of the media ain't exactly the brightest bulbs in the box, ya know. ;b

Speaking of which, I just received a copy of Automobile yesterday. In it, they talk about the possible upcoming M1 that would offer the 333 hp 3.2 and go 0-60 in 5.3 secs ..... Ummmm... ok, and this would be preferrable to a 4.5 sec 135 how???

point is, they're talking out their [non-permissible content removed].

nippononly

Yeah, I would be into a small diesel in lieu of a 4-cylinder gas. I would pay more than the base 6 as long as it wasn't TOO much more. I am thinking more of reducing oil imports than of my own personal gas-dollar savings.

And weight is another bone I have to pick with the new 1-car. I fervently long for the day when automakers can get the ridiculous amount of pork out of their cars, but in the meantime is it too much to hope that the SMALLEST model from a performance-oriented carmaker be lightweight? :sick:

It is fairly disgusting that the 4-cyl TSX can barely break 30 and does 22 or so around town. Inexcusable, I say. Heck, the Audi 2.0 TURBO has them both beat in this price range, and is a VERY pleasant drive to boot.

lordpasty

As far as fuel efficiency goes, according to what I just read, the sad truth is that if they actually do put the 3.0i in there, then it will probably average about the same MPG as my Mazda 3s. Don't get me wrong, it's a great little car that I drive, but I'd pay the extra 3K for the little BMW with 230 horses and similar fuel economy. I also doubt that the car would need premium fuel (the 135i with the turbo's' would).

I'm still pinching myself. Hopefully I don't wake up in spring of 08 with no BMW 1 series (or whatever the hell they decide to call it). Of course, I'll have to find some money and get on the waiting list.

shipo

"I also doubt that the car would need premium fuel..."

I don't understand why you would think that, all BMWs for at least the last decade or two have required Premium fuel.

Best Regards,
Shipo

lordpasty

"I also doubt that the car would need premium fuel..."

"I don't understand why you would think that, all BMWs for at least the last decade or two have required Premium fuel. "

Well, maybe they do. I've always wondered if "premium" car companies just say that. It's been my understanding that premium fuel was important mostly for turbocharged vehicles. I don't know enough to argue. :P

qbrozen

well, requiring it and suggesting it are 2 different things. with electronic controls these days, few vehicles (if any) truly "require" premium. They will run on regular, just not to their full potential.

lordpasty

"well, requiring it and suggesting it are 2 different things. with electronic controls these days, few vehicles (if any) truly "require" premium. They will run on regular, just not to their full potential."

Exactly, but if I'm lucky enough to own a little Bimmer, then I'll prolly put the premium in it. When do we get this car, again?

qbrozen

something like spring/summer '08 is the last i've heard.

fixxxer

"well, requiring it and suggesting it are 2 different things. with electronic controls these days, few vehicles (if any) truly "require" premium. They will run on regular, just not to their full potential. "

This is true. Case in point. The Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano PanAmerica challenge found places where the Ferrari had to run on 75 octane gass. 75. And the electronics in the engine just pulled back the power and kept running. Completely electrical, nothing a mechanic had to do. Sure it wouldn't really go like a Ferrari, but it wasn't a problem

You could run a BMW on regular, it would just run kind of slower. I would think i'd run it on 89 instead of 93 just for like, a good compromise

shipo

Guys, don't "cheap-out" on the fuel. If the maker of your car recommends a certain grade of fuel, use it. Period, full stop, the end.

The fact is that as you move away from the recommended octane rating (in either direction), not only will your engine not perform as well as it should, but your fuel economy will suffer as well. These days Premium fuel costs what, 6% more than Regular? We're not talking lots of money here, and there are plenty of both scientific studies and empirical evidence to indicate that high performance/high compression ratio engines that are optimized for Premium fuel can see as much as a 10% reduction in fuel economy when operated on Regular fuel, more than offsetting any "savings" gained at the fuel pump.

Best Regards,
Shipo

qbrozen

actually, it is 14% more by me. ($2.81 vs $3.21)

anyway, nobody said i was buying the car and using regular. i was just picking nits about "required" vs "suggested."

shipo

No worries mate, it wasn't your comments that I had in mind when I wrote the above post. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nippononly

I read a little blurb that reminded me that the 3L engine from the 328i has no oil dipstick. It has to be DEALER SERVICED if the oil runs low.

Another reason I am hoping they bring it to the States with SOMETHING in addition to the two 3L engines as an option under the hood. I won't buy a car without a dipstick. Just won't do it...

(It also has no engine temperature gauge on the dash, which I am not that fond of either, but that of course is becoming an industrywide trend))

I am also not interested, in fact very UNinterested in active steering and iDrive. I hope they give both of those a pass on the 1-series. Hopefully they will just because of the car's price point. I believe both are still optional, not standard, on the 328.

shipo

"I read a little blurb that reminded me that the 3L engine from the 328i has no oil dipstick. It has to be DEALER SERVICED if the oil runs low."

Half correct. True there is no oil dipstick (makes it hard for me to use my oil extractor), however, you can read the oil level from the instrument panel. Personally I'd prefer both methods of reading the oil level. That said, if the oil level drops, you are more than welcome to add your own BMW LL-01 certified oil (BMW 5W-30, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 or Mobil 1 0W-40).

"(It also has no engine temperature gauge on the dash, which I am not that fond of either, but that of course is becoming an industrywide trend)"

Yeah but... Ever since the advent of OBD-II (in something like 1996) instrument panel temperature gauges have been nothing more than three-state idiot lights. Essentially the needle will point left/low (engine is cool), middle (engine is somewhere within the acceptable operating temperature range), and right/high (engine has already overheated). With that in mind, BMWs implementation of a selectable instrument panel readout of the engine coolant temperature (which I believe is in degrees) is far more valuable to me than a three-state gauge.

"I am also not interested, in fact very UNinterested in active steering and iDrive. I hope they give both of those a pass on the 1-series. Hopefully they will just because of the car's price point. I believe both are still optional, not standard, on the 328."

Yes, active steering, active cruise control and iDrive are all optional on the 3-Series. That said, I believe that you can configure iDrive to display engine metrics and so in a funny kind of way, you could call it a $2,100 temperature gauge. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dhanley

"all BMWs for at least the last decade or two have required Premium fuel. "

Not true. My '97 328i takes mid-grade.

However, the 128i will be taking premium unless bmw modifies the engine.

shipo

My bad, missed by a year. My 1999 328i (purchased in 1998) required Premium fuel.

"However, the 128i will be taking premium unless bmw modifies the engine."

Not bleedin' likely. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

ateixeira

It might make sense to tune the engine for 220hp instead of 230hp and suggest regular fuel instead of premium.

That might help get us cheapskates in to our first Bimmer.

If not at least offer a diesel for those customers.

qbrozen

??? why not just put in regular and force the engine to give you less power?? Why make all owners suffer??

kyfdx

Good answer!!

Wonder why I didn't think of that?

They already offer the diesels in Europe.. But, if they only send the coupe and convertible over here, we'll never see the diesels.

ateixeira

So long as the engine can accept regular long-term will no ill effects, that's fine.

I was bummed to find out the Miata now actually required premium, 91 octane or higher. Not just recommended, required.

You sure BMW only recommends premium? What is the minimum octane requirement?

qbrozen

I think we discussed this in this very forum very recently, didn't we?
... I don't believe any mass-produced vehicle REQUIRES premium. I'm sure the miata would run with no problems on regular. That's what all those fancy computers are for. I've run regular in vehicles with far greater hp/displacement than the miata, that's for sure.

kyfdx

I'd guess there are some turbo engines, where premium is required... I certainly wouldn't run regular in a turbo that requires it..

I'll have to check on what BMW says about it... I know everything I've heard says regular is okay, only with reduced performance (and maybe mileage, as well.. a false economy).

ateixeira

Well, since that time, I dug up a PDF from Mazda and it said "Minimum Fuel Requirement: 91 octane" or something like that. Bummed me out.

I use my Miata as an economical 2nd car for commuting. A used 06 would be a nice eventual replacement, but using premium sort of dulls the concept of it being an economy anything.

qbrozen

I probably wouldn't run regular in a 300hp 2 liter turbo (although I wouldn't mind trying, as all those fancy electronics won't allow the engine to get hurt), but I did run regular in a 237hp 2.3 liter turbo for about 4 years with no adverse effects whatsoever.

qbrozen

that's just the lawyers at work. ;b

ateixeira

Not on the turbo, I wouldn't do that under any circumstances. I was thinking for the normally aspirated straight 6.

And the Miata, of course.

dhanley

It's doubtful whether running regular will save money in any case. With a modern high-compression engine, the ignition would have to be greatly retarded, which would hurt both power and economy.

I'd almost be MORE willing to run low-grade on a turbo engine, since those ARE low-compression engines, and the engine management system could simply reduce/eliminate boost. Nonetheless, i did see a warning to not run saabs on 85 octane "mountain fuel."

shipo

I'd almost be MORE willing to run low-grade on a turbo engine, since those ARE low-compression engines, and the engine management system could simply reduce/eliminate boost. Nonetheless, i did see a warning to not run saabs on 85 octane "mountain fuel."

That of course used to be the case for all turbo engines, that said, consider the new Audi 2.0T. This little sucker is running a 10.3:1 compression ration AND a resonably high boost (10 psi if I'm not mistaken) which equates to something like a 15:1 overall compression ratio at full boil. Wow! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

10.7 on the 328i NA

10.2 on the 335i turbo..

ateixeira

All fairly high figures. Only a few engines with compression ratios over 10:1 do not require premium.