BMW 1-Series

blueguydotcom

I guess then the 1-series is based on the mini?? It must be. They are vaguely related, right?

There's nothing vague about it. The Volvo/Mazda/Ford use of the platform for the 3/Focus/C30 is well documented.

I don't know what volvo you had, but that is a description i have never heard before. It is a good thing I don't base all of my assumptions about bimmers on the one I had the misfortune of having come into my father's shop while I was working there 18 years ago, or I would never own one today (although that one still haunts my dreams).

It was an S80. And my Bimmers have had horrible reliability, so reliability is not my concern. My BMWs may have had major component failures but they were somewhat fun. No such thing with Volvo.

And if a Buick can outhandle my 6-speed Accord like my Volvo did, then I have to say I wouldn't mind that Buick and can you tell me which one?

My 06 330i could outhandle an Accord too. Doesn't mean that the e90 is a great drivers' car. The e90 still drives like a Buick - floaty, soft, isolated, totally banal.

fedlawman

I'm on my second Volvo V70. Our first one (a MY2001) was totaled when my wife turned left in front of oncoming traffic and got slammed full speed by a van. My wife and son walked away with NO injuries.

We loved the quality, ride, comfort, quiet, utility, and styling of our V70 so much, that we replaced it with another (MY2004). We now have 60,000 miles on our current V70 and couldn't be more pleased. All it's ever had is routine scheduled maintenance, and I plan on keeping it for a very long time. I don't take the V70 to HPDE's, but then again, I don't drive my M3 to So Cal every year either.

Your Volvo experience is obviously different from mine, and you're entitled to say that YOUR Volvo was a disappointment. That's too bad though, because MY Volvo is terrific. It's designed to perform a specific mission (safety, quality, understated luxury), and it does so flawlessly.

qbrozen

The Volvo/Mazda/Ford use of the platform for the 3/Focus/C30 is well documented.

uhhh... yeah. I said that before. But there is a difference between saying that and saying they are all based on a Focus. That would imply Ford developed the Focus (euro-only, by the way) and then the others came along. That of course wasn't the case. Not to mention, sharing a platform means very very little. An S80 and Land Rover share a platform, an Odyssey and Accord have shared a platform, the list goes on and on. A platform does not exclusively a car make.

My 06 330i could outhandle an Accord too. Doesn't mean that the e90 is a great drivers' car. The e90 still drives like a Buick - floaty, soft, isolated, totally banal.

Wow. You've got a tremendous amount of respect for Buicks. Either that or you really can't tell the difference between the 2 cars.

And, yes, I completely agree that my Accord is not a driver's car, persay, and neither was my volvo. But I can tell you they both beat a Buick in that category. I never drove a 330i, but I'll bet blind that it does, too. so ... all that said ... what are you looking to buy? I mean, considering the weight problem the 1-series will still seem to have, are you still hopeful it will be miraculously better? Have you tried a Lotus Elise? Seems to me that might be more your thing.

Oh, and berating all volvos based on one of the most unreliable and heaviest model ever made is short-sighted, IMHO. That would be akin to thinking a 740i with the bad block (which was that again? Nakasil? Or some such thing?) is all BMW has to offer. Or, after driving a Cayenne, dismissing all Porsches as devoid of sporting nature.

waynebengston

I've driven BMW 3-Series cars with and without the sport packages. Handling difference is like night and day. I thought maybe it was just the tires, but after driving a non-sport package car equipped with P-Zeros, I realized it's the sport package or lack therof.

I do wish the 1-series would have lost more weight, but I'll try one just the same. I'll be looking for handling feel that is equal to or superior to my lightweight Focus. If it is there, I'll probably buy it.

I really wish there were a practical compact RWD sport-coupe built with light weight as its main goal, but that is not the case. Maybe Lotus will do something along those lines, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

ateixeira

The Sport packages handle well, but I've driven a few that had rides that were too stiff IMO. They some times go a bit too far.

It's almost as if they do this intentionally, to be seen as "edgy", i.e. you have to make a sacrifice to drive an enthusiasts' car.

blueguydotcom

Not to mention, sharing a platform means very very little. An S80 and Land Rover share a platform, an Odyssey and Accord have shared a platform, the list goes on and on. A platform does not exclusively a car make.

You're trying to tell me platform isn't contrary to performance by bringing up bloated barges (S80/Land Rover) and banal people movers (Accord/TL/Odyssey)? Okey dokey.

Wow. You've got a tremendous amount of respect for Buicks. Either that or you really can't tell the difference between the 2 cars.

Drive an e90 with sport package. It's a soft, isolated car. It may not be as bad as a buick but for as boring as the drive is, it might as well be a buick with a manual and 18s.

I mean, considering the weight problem the 1-series will still seem to have, are you still hopeful it will be miraculously better? Have you tried a Lotus Elise? Seems to me that might be more your thing.

Elise isn't 4 door or 5 door. Ideally BMW will man up and release a 4 door 1 series. Or bring the wagon here.

qbrozen

Elise isn't 4 door or 5 door. Ideally BMW will man up and release a 4 door 1 series. Or bring the wagon here.

But why should that matter to you? It is largely the same as the car you feel is isolated and bloated, is it not?

You're trying to tell me platform isn't contrary to performance by bringing up bloated barges (S80/Land Rover) and banal people movers (Accord/TL/Odyssey)?

uhh... nope. I never used such words. I was making no comment on performance. Merely that 2 cars can share a platform and still be very very different.

blueguydotcom

I'm hoping against reason for the 1 to feel lighter and at least something closer to an E46 rather than the E90.

Let's just leave the platform thing alone. From a business point of view I get why companies do it; from a driving point of view I have no use for platform sharing among differing brands (Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Ford/Volvo/Mazda). You can't use a bad platform (Nissan's FM for instance) across multiple brands...otherwise you end up with junk like the 350z, FX35 and G35. No focus, no purity of concept.

louiswei

You can't use a bad platform (Nissan's FM for instance) across multiple brands...otherwise you end up with junk like the 350z, FX35 and G35. No focus, no purity of concept.

FM a bad platform? For a Prosche heck yeah it's a bad platform! But you do know that 350Z and G35 are $30K cars and FX35 is probably the best handling CUV in its class around low $40Ks right?

You get what you paid for, simple as that...

blueguydotcom

To each his own...

qbrozen

I'm with you.

I LOVED my 350z. yeah, it was a bit porky, but it also felt way more solid than many other lighter sportscars I've driven. That has to come from somewhere, and light AND solid is a VERY expensive mix.

jwaggoner

If you take euro delivery will you still get the 4 year maintenance warranty with the 1 series? If so can you take the car to any dealer?

Thanks

blueguydotcom

Yes. Any dealer, full warranty and the shipping cost is the same as all BMW purchased here or in Europe.

pjo1966

ordering guide

andys120

Thanks for posting that, it'll help me figure out how to spec my convertible .

There's a typo on the specs page which shows the 135i coupe weighing 3,732 lbs with a manual and 3,384 with A/T. That would make the 135i/6M 200 lbs heavier than a 335i/6a. :confuse:

investor27

Is it true that the 1 series here in the US will not have the fuel saving technologies that the one in Europe does? I'm talking about the Stop-Start function, the Energy Brake Regeneration, and the Alternator running the AC, and not the engine.

fedlawman

Yes, I noticed that typo too. I assume it should read 3332.

Not bad. I wonder if my wife would notice if I removed the sound insulation and air conditioning. I wonder how much the back seat weighs...

jb_shin

That is what I read in couple of magazines as well.

ateixeira

That is heavy. :sick:

fixxxer

The 135i is exciting, but that new 1 series tii concept is tight as HELL!. I would absolutely love that car, and I hope they put it into prodution

myob

The 3 series is a sport sedan, not a sports car. It's bigger than in the past but that's not always a bad thing. If you want a sports car, buy a sports car. The whole concept of a sport sedan is to combine at least SOME practicality with the sportiness. Whining about a car (the E90 3 series) that isn't exactly limo comfortable already wanting it to get smaller isn't going to happen. Part of its appeal is that all that weight adds solidity and space that makes it easier to live with on a daily basis for those who truly need a SEDAN. For those who are willing to sacrifice a little space for dynamics, maybe the 1 series will be your cup o tea.

Calling the almost universally acknowledged best handling SS in its class "floaty" and comparing it to a Buick is simply silly. Go drive an acura or Saab or even an A4 first.

andys120

The 3 series is a sport sedan, not a sports car. It's bigger than in the past but that's not always a bad thing. If you want a sports car, buy a sports car.

That's one POV but a lot of us think that there has to be a middle ground between the E90 which is nearly as big as my E39 (as big as any sports sedan should be IMO) and the tiny impractical two-seaters of the Z4, Boxster variety.

Don't get me wrong, I love two-seaters but I don't think a German Buick should be the next step up.

More power to BMW for filling the gap.

jaxs1

The 1 series coupe is impractical. The back seat of a 3 series coupe is barely usable, so the 1 series will be worse.

sunilb

That's why they should have brought over the 3 or 5-door hatchback version.... add a sense of practicality to the car. The wife isn't going to be sold on me getting a two door car with barely room for anything (or anyone else)

andys120

True you probably aren't going to be a Oner for it's practicality but if you want a BMW Convertible it's either the expensive, too-large E92 with it's weighty and complex metal top, the hideous looking Z4 or the sublime One Series.

That rear seat might be tight but it beats the hell out of the one that isn't in the Z4/Miata/350Z etc.

qbrozen

The 3 series is a sport sedan

well, no. The 3-series sedan is a sedan. The 3-series non-sedans are not. ;b

jaxs1

Not really. That's like saying the rear seat of a Lexus SC or Porsche is "tight." Sometimes rear seats are just put in to reduce insurance rates and are not usable except as an upholstered shelf.

dhanley

"Sometimes rear seats are just put in to reduce insurance rates and are not usable except as an upholstered shelf."

True. The question here is, are the 1-series backseats of this variety. Based on the dimensions, it seems not.

A seat isn't "useless" because it won't fit king kong bundy.

A friend of mine just sold his mote carlo and bought a trailblazer because he was getting too "big" for the monte's front seat. Doesn't mean it's useless.

nyccarguy

Rear seat room is all relative. I'm certain that the 1er will have more back seat room than in my '01 Honda Prelude. The back seat will be roomier than in a MINI.

Usually it is just me driving anyway. Back and forth to work 6 days a week.

Our X3 is the family hauler.

blueguydotcom

Or perhaps we have different standards. Because half the class earns an C gradem, that doesn't make BMW's B grade, suddenly an A. Life isn't graded on a curve. Some people do compare and contrast and decide the winner is the best. I compare and contrast but the winner could very well be a car not even mode. I know what I want and that pig of a car the e90 doesn't cut it any longer.

Strange that the reaction to dissing the BMW is to tell someone try something worse. This milk is sour. "Really, go drink the sludge coming from the pump and tell me the sour milk isn't good!" Weird logic, using the failings of others to proclaim BMW's superiority.

ateixeira

Actually I do think cars are graded on a curve.

In the C&D 50th Anniversary issue I noted something funny - the Subaru Forester XT was quicker to 60mph than the Lamborghini 5000S Quattrovalvole.

What was a super car back in the 80s is fairly mainstream two decades later.

The curve has shifted to the right basically, so an A+ now only gets a C.

myob

oops. forgot about the coupe. But coupes are more a styling choice than anything.

My suggestion to try a lesser car was that this is a CLASS of vehicles and it's tops in class, curve or no. If the E90, heavy as it is, is still the best handling one, it's probably hyperbole to refer to it as "a pig" and "a buick" isn't it? I admit it does feel slightly more detached in road feel, but that might be refinement, since my main problem is telling how fast I'm going on country roads.

And as for the E90's supposed inferiority, the last I checked they're faster, and while I'm not a race driver they are at least statistically comparable in handling as far as I recall from road tests. I will again say that if you really just want a lighter car, go buy one. Just don't make the rest of us buy a sport sedan that is inferior in numerous other aspects (safety, room, comfort, noise, etc) because you really want a lightweight sports car. Go back two generations and the 3 series was lighter still. Yet they were flawed cars in many ways. Cars have gotten heavier as they add safety features, space, and crash test ability. But even then, Edmunds shows the '05 as 3219 lbs while the E90 '06 325i is 3285 lbs. Is that really noticeable?

I had two E39's and even though they felt "heavier" they handled like they were on rails.

Maybe a nice Honda would fit the bill. Motorcycle, that is.

blueguydotcom

You're missing the point. Many of us unhappy with the 1 are sad because it's not what BMW advertised. BMW touted the 2002 in the lead up to the 1.

If the E90, heavy as it is, is still the best handling one, it's probably hyperbole to refer to it as "a pig" and "a buick" isn't it?

No. It's an opinion. If one only dates size 0s and 2s, then a size 6 may be below average in america but to someone with petite tastes such a size may appear porky.

And as for the E90's supposed inferiority, the last I checked they're faster, and while I'm not a race driver they are at least statistically comparable in handling as far as I recall from road tests

Again, you're grading on a curve. That to me is utter nonsense. To proclaim something great because its competition is bad is like eating McDonald's for years and then walking into some low-grade kangaroo-meat factory like Outback Steakhouse and declaring their steaks supreme.

Just don't make the rest of us buy a sport sedan that is inferior in numerous other aspects (safety, room, comfort, noise, etc) because you really want a lightweight sports car. .

I want a lightweight RWD sport sedan. The idea of something e30 4 door sized with RWD and today's tech for the suspension and engine (turbo 4) is the most appealing. Sadly, nobody makes such a car. If it's small, then it's saddled with ridiculously awful and heavy AWD (like the Evo and Sti) or even worse FWD (GTI, Cooper, etc).

Maybe a nice Honda would fit the bill. Motorcycle, that is.

BMW promised the 1 was a return to the 2002. The reality, it's a heavier e46 with better engine technology. BMW set themselves up for this ridicule. They have the ability to deliver a small, RWD car but instead just shrank down the e90 some and hoped most people wouldn't notice the car's anything but 2002-like.

andys120

BMW promised the 1 was a return to the 2002.

If you're going to believe every self-serving statement issued by car makers you are in for a lifetime of disappointment. There isn't going to be a return to the 2002, the 510, the '65 Mustang, the '64 GTO or the Corvair. Just as there wasn't a return to the VW Beetle or the Mini, except in name.

Judge the Oner on it's own merits or demerits. :shades:

blueguydotcom

BMW opened the 1 series to extreme and harsh criticism by proclaiming the 1 series was a return to the 2002's roots. Again, the point is BMW did this; we didn't conjure up that the 1 was supposed to be the 2002 for the 2000s but rather BMW proclaimed it. They brought the negative reviews on the car with their spurious claims.

Personally, I'll judge the 1 series the way I judge all cars: against an ideal of what a car should be.

dhanley

"Again, you're grading on a curve. That to me is utter nonsense. To proclaim something great because its competition is bad "

Ok. You're not as smart as isaac newton. So i guess...

qbrozen

I'm impressed by the standard features. Everything I would want and plenty of stuff I wouldn't even want are standard equipment. Still waiting on pricing, though.

ateixeira

Maybe they'll come out with a de-contented (lighter and cheaper) version? I doubt it...

qbrozen

they'd be too afraid of it "cheapening" the brand. kind of silly, IMHO.

louiswei

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

My prediction was:

128i: starting $27,995
135i: starting $34,599

back in post 695, and the reported MSRP from BMW was:

128i starting $29,375
135i starting $35,675

Did anyone get closer than me in his or her predictions?

ateixeira

That's higher than I expected. $36 grand for the baby Bimmer?

Even the 128i isn't really a strong value. Must be the US Dollar vs. the Euro.

andys120

I figured $36 or $37K, not bad considering the dollar ain't worth a Sou.

The price includes a high level of equipment including Xenons, dual ACC, 10-speaker audio (way overkill for a small car), cruise, power moonroof etc.

I figure a 135iA Cab configured the way I want it w sport pack-Steptronic and crimson Red (@nc) will run around $45-$46, (ie $5 or $6 less than the 335 Cab w it's troublesome tin roof).

There's a lot of carping at Autoblog about this price level which IMO is silly. They seem to have forgotten that even in the day of the strong dollar Bimmers were never cheap.

blueguydotcom

The "carping" is warranted as this car is obscenely overpriced. There's no logical reason that a stripped 135 will cost only 2k less than a 335i sedan. Figuring one can get 2k off a 335i without blinking, that makes the two cars about equal in price. Shameful really.

andys120

I'm sure that in theory you can get a stripped 335i for $2K off but out in the real world very few people want or buy them that way, preferring well-equipped CPOs, or loaded 328s.. The average transaction price for a 335i is I suspect well north of $40 thou.

To each his own.

kyfdx

Yeah.. but, it's a coupe...

A 135i coupe comes in about $5K under a 335i coupe... similarly equipped..

I think that puts it right where they want it... BMW wants a niche car with a good profit margin, that won't cannibalize its main bread-n-butter line.. I'd say they hit it right on the head. If they wanted another line to sell, they'd bring over sedans and hatchbacks.. But then.. they'd need to lower the price points, sell a lot more, and probably lose some 3-series sales.

I wouldn't pay $38K-$40K for one.... but, that doesn't mean they won't hit their targets.. I quit wishing for one, as soon as I found out it was 2-door only.. I think the convertible will do well, once it gets here..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

Andy,

Actually, a base 135i will be hard to come by too. You missed my point...with only a $2500 gulf between similarly equipped 135 and 335 cars, it'll be quite easy to get a 335 for about the same money. So figure just about every 135 that's not ordered will come with premium, sport and automatic at minimum. That's 42k with shipping. Figure the same features for most 335is, so 45k or so. Unlike the 135, it's quite easy to knock 2000-2500 off the price of an on-the-lot 3 series. someone with patience and drive can knock 3k or more off the price, making a 335i cheaper...

blueguydotcom

Shrug, with the two (135c and 335i) costing about the same, I think BMW made a big mistake. We'll see. Even another 1 or 2k I think would have made a difference. We'll see...

fedlawman

As kyfdx pointed out, there is a $5000 difference between the 335i Coupe and the 135i coupe.

You can't use the lower MSRP of the sedan because the Coupes come with SP standard. Add the SP to the sedan, and you're right back up to $41,000 for the 3-series.

I think $5000 is a reasonable (and predictable) discount for the 1er. Even at that price, it's the performance bargain of the entire BMW lineup - $35000 for a coupe that is basically in E46 M3, Z4 M Coupe, and Porsche Cayman S territory.

nyccarguy

predictions were, but I'm kinda stunned at the $29K+ base price on the 128i. That's $30K once you add the destination charge. YIKES! I'm not happy about it, but I do understand that BMW has to make money on these cars. The whole Weak dollar vs. strong euro I'm sure has a lot to do with it as well as the ever escalating costs of raw materials used to make cars such as plastic (oil) and steel.

qbrozen

Did anyone get closer than me in his or her predictions?

hmmm... welll... I can't find my numbers, but in searching for them, I came across Juice's guess

If you run it as a total gap, you missed the prices by $2456 total, while juice missed by $2060 total. :b

I believe I said $28 and $33, so I'm pretty sure I'm out of the running.

On to the consequences .... This is just too darned expensive!
I may, possibly, consider a 128, but not at full retail, and it will depend on its real-world performance. As I recently stated, I am impressed with the equipment that comes standard, so the price being higher than I expected is, I suppose, somewhat justified. Although I would GLADLY give up the moonroof for an $800-$1k pricecut.