Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

thenorthface

Yes, i get the 2.5i with VDC but not with manual gearbox. I picked the auto gearbox because i think it did the job okay. Maby not as quick as my BMW to shift, and i could have wanted the five speed as in the 3.0, but the 4speed is okay and the VDC is a must have here in Sweden i think.

krzyss

What kind of tires Subaru mounts on Legacy in Sweden?

Krzys

jfigueroa1

Good Day, Here at work one of my co-worker bought a 05 legacy lmtd nice very all the toys. I have to say the legacy is sharp. She is having a code being display in her odometer the code is IIL.5 can any of you subaru owner help.

v/r
Fig.

roberte1

Why is it that Subaru doesn't seem to be all that pouplar !!! The Special lease rate for a 2005 Impeza was $199 a month with $0 Down . Why didn't people just eat that up ???? Is it the styleing of the car ??? Is it lack of advertizing ??? I know its not a safty issue or a depenability issue !!! What is it that stop them from pushing Toyota and Honda in sales ???? Somebody please tell me !!! :confuse:

krzyss

RTFM

It is intesity of the gauges lighting. 1 is the lowest and 9 or 10 the highest, if I am not mistaken.

Krzys

c_hunter

Yeah, it is telling you the illumination level of the gauges. Try turning the knob near the driver's left knee. For some reason, the knob sometimes seems to get caught between contacts or something, and triggers the message even when you're not adjusting the lighting level. I think they cheaped out on the knob, and perhaps the contacts are not high quality.

I can't tell you how many people have asked this over on the legacygt website and interpreted the "ILL" to mean their car is sick!

CRaig

c_hunter

I think the AWD-only nature of the Impreza separates it from the Civics and Corollas of the world. That, and it's clearly fallen behind cars like the 06 Civic in terms of the latest and greatest, and styling. I loved my WRX in 03, but now we're in the 06 model year and the Impreza line is slightly outdated (despite the new face). I imagine the basic Impreza is mainly compelling for people who want AWD in a small car. Otherwise you can get more for less with a Civic.

The WRX model still carries it's own rally-sport appeal that keeps it popular despite the age. It's actually a bargain in base model form (but I think the leather-equipped high end models are too expensive for that class of car -- better off with a Legacy GT for the same price).

BTW, $199/month lease is OK, but you can get Civics for lower payments.

In the early 90s, Subaru tried to compete with Honda/Toyota/Nissan by offering many models. It almost ruined the company. SInce then they have focused on their niche market and their core competancies. It seems to be a better approach for a small company rather than trying to compete on volume. They cater to a smaller crowd, but it is very loyal to the brand.

Craig

jfigueroa1

thanks you for the fast response,
I am actually in the tacoma 05 board, thanks for the help.

fig.

ateixeira

Yeah, I've seen ads for $199 leases for Accords locally. AWD costs money.

-juice

theooutback

Wonderful forums - these have been very helpful. I wanted to pass along a little of my experience for those who may be reading these in the market for a new car.

It seems I looked at everything out there from A4s, to the G35x to the CRV. In the end it was the Subaru that had what I wanted: Safety (esp. with the 06 side improvements), a usable back seat (this disqualified the Audi) [I wondered a lot about this - and to hopefully be helpful, the back seat is GREAT. My mother had an 04 Forester and the seat there is much tigher with a car seat in it - my daughter has pleanty of room in the 06 OB), reliability (this was the Audi's second disqualification, it's VW genetics - we had a 2002 Passat that was great for 6mo. and then just fell apart), and price - (much better dealer interaction, I could never get an actual quote from dealers of the Audi, Infiniti... .)

I test drove the L.L.Bean and it was wonderful. I was actually using it as a proxy for the VDC. The cost was just going to be a little more than I wanted. I decided to take an beautiful light blue with taupe leather 2.5i Limited auto for a drive - WOW. I really liked it. I thought the power was very good and ride was very nice. The interior was just beautiful (no audio on the steering wheel)but same wood appearance trim as on the Bean and VDC (sans the real wood steering wheel bit). I purchased it later that afternoon. (I should note that I visited two Subie dealers in western New England - the second in Chicopee gave me THOUSANDS more for my Civic Hybrid trade-in and played fewer games than the first one I went to. The Chicopee dealer even pointed out that I hadn't included an auto trans in my Kelly BB print out and added five hundred more - that established a good relationship right there).

NOW THE QUESTION -

I have some concerns after months of reading about the tires. I have researched this (including reading the msgs on tires here) and have come down to:

Goodyear Assuarance TripleTred: CR rates no. 1 in their Nov. O5 tire review (disqualified the Bridgestone touring on the basis of that same CR review). Some complaints about balance issue and hard ride at tirerack site.

Michelin Pilot A/S: no CR info, just Tire Rack reviews and the like, which haven't been that helpful. Some comments on noise at tirerack - but is is less than OEM 17s on OB?

If there are folks who have put these on, I'd love to hear how they are working out for you - how the ride and noise is, esp. relative to the OEMs as that's my apples-to-apples baseline.

Thanks much!

Theo

dougb10

Hi Theo,

For what it is worth, I have an '05 Outback Limited. Discarded the Bridgestone Potenza's after only 1,500 kms. because of the lousy ride qualities. Switched to Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires and could not be happier. The car handles amd rides like a totally different car.

Doug

snowbelter

I have an 02 VDC that came with H rated Potenza's. They didn't grip in the cold weather with light snow. I ditched them at 26k (with lots of tread left) for Nokian WRs which have been great for the 20k miles I've had them and they really grip in the snow. Many people have had good things to say about the Turanza's, but you should stick with the speed rating of your current tire, (V) I think. The Potenza's should be good enough in the snow for the first winter.

theooutback

Thanks Doug and Snowbelter. One of the tire dealers I spoke to this weekend said I shouldn't go below the V speed rating of the OEM tire. I suspected it was because he saw the goodyear printouts I had with me and the tripletred goes up to H in the 17", but not V (the Michelins are rated at W, so not an issue there). But now you mention it Snowbelter and I noticed on the costco tire website that they say they will not install a tire with a lower rating than the OEM tire. Yet an H is rated to 130 MPH, which seems like it should be just fine - is there more to it than just speed when it comes to not changing the tire rating down? Apparently up is fine. Thanks.

kens

"is there more to it than just speed when it comes to not changing the tire rating down?"

Yes, the speed rating for your tire is really a proxy for it's sidewall stiffness. By going to a lower speed rating, even if you don't intend on driving at the max listed speed, you are changing a variable in how the car was designed to drive.

Ken

snowbelter

I'm not the tire expert, but speed ratings go to how the car handles, heat build-up in the tire, ie safety issues.

rsorganize

For my '05 VDC wagon, I recently switched to Turanza LS-V. Much better than Potenzas.

I also live in WMass - in Franklin Co. For winter driving, I use Dunlop Wintersports. Great tires.

Best area deal on the Turanzas was at Rucki's in Holyoke. $155 each. Ask for Alex.

theooutback

Thanks for the feedback. Its all a bit confusing. I see that Subaru put 16" H rated tires on this same model in '05. I believe the suspension is the same with just the rim size going to 17" and tire speed changing for 2006 to V. So it would appear that either are fine in terms of what the car was engineered for.

Anyone tried the tripletreds? It's really the recent Consumer Reports review that's piqued the interest. The rating system they use is: Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor

They rate the Goodyears as:

Dry Braking: Excellent
Wet Braking: Excellent
Handling: Very Good
Hydroplaining: Very Good
Rolling Resistance: Very Good
Snow Traction: Very Good
Ice Braking: Fair
Ride: Very Good
Noise: Excellent
Tread Wear: Good

The Turanza LS-T (not H or V) is also reviewed:
Dry Braking: Very Good
Wet Braking: Very Good
Handling: Good
Hydorplaining: Very Good
Rolling Resistance: Fair
Snow Traction: Fair
Ice Braking: Fair
Ride: Good
Noise: Good
Treadlife: Excellent

The TS-V may perform very differntly, I realize.

Well, I suppose the Potenzas will work fine while I try to figure all of this out. Thanks for all of the feedback.

Theo

rsorganize

Check the Turanza LS-V at TireRack.

c_hunter

The H rating pertained to the 16" setup for 05 base models. I would not necessarily assume that means "H" is also acceptable for 17" tires. This rating is a measure of the tires endurance under heat and load at speed. The 16" and 17" tires are surely not the same in this respect. As important as tires are, this is one item where it pays to do the right thing.

I would also echo the recommendation for Turanza LS-V tires. These will be going on my 05 OB XT (17" wheel/tire) as soon as the stock Potenzas wear out.

Craig

thenorthface

In Sweden you get different tires from different dealers if you mean the winter season. When I ordered mine i stated that i wanted either "Gislaved Nordfrost3" or "Michelin X-ICE North" for snow-tires.
The summer tires i don't know for sure if all Subarus get the same. I will check this and get back to you.

thenorthface

I think the Outback comes with Yokohama - Geolandar as for summer tires here in sweden. Not sure thou....

andrelaplume

This is what gets me mad when looking at the 05 base vs the 06 base. 16" vs 17" wheels. I'd love the 16" (I think they look better too). But if I want an 06 I must get the 17". Take a look at pricing on tires. The 17" outprice the 16s. Plus the V rating adds to the price over the 16s H rating as well. When I looked, a good set of tires cost anywhere from $200 or more for the 17" Vs...AND the Vs will not last as long as an H for that matter.

stickguy

A friend I work with bout a Legacy over the weekend (NA Limited I think). I'll get a chance soon to sope it out, test for fit, etc. If it feels good, I'll head to the dealer to see what is up.

I have a feeling that I am going to like it, but will run into a major roadblock trying to find an SE 5 speed. I can't really justinfy all the extra $$ to move up to the GT based on what I will use it for (mostly local stuff, plus I have to teach my son to drive on it in 2 years, yikes!).

I'm an overly analytical, compulsive researcher (you know, typical Edmunds lifer), impulse buyer, if that makes sense. Not having a unit close to available makes it real hard to do the impulse part!

ateixeira

That's great. Having one to test more than once means you'll know if you could live with the car over time, and in different circumstances. Let us know how you like it.

-juice

poisson

And I love them. I first put them on my wife's Odyssey and they work great. When I was due to replace my tires, I opted to put them on my car as well (Outback 2.5XT 5EAT) - prompted by extreme hydro-planing on the OEM Potenzas. I don't consider the fact that they are an H-rated tire a problem.
One thing I have noticed about that tire is that they tend to firm up pretty severly in the cold weather. Until they warm up, they tend to be bouncy (almost like they are out of balance). I noticed this on the Odyssey and it is still apparent on mine. I suspect this has to do with the extremely high treadwear rating (740 I believe). They smooth out after a couple of miles.

I am curious to see how they do in the snow although I won't be using them too much this winter as I have dedicated snows for both our cars.

One thing is for sure, they handle GREAT in the rain. I would recommend them without question.

c_hunter

Sounds like they are flat-spotting. You can sometimes alleviate this by bumping the pressure up a little. But many tires do it and you just have to live with it. Like you said, it normally goes away after a few miles.

CRaig

stickguy

outside the car, that is.

Saw the Legacy I mentioned in the parking lot. I never realized it before (maybe because I hardly ever see them!) but it was really, really sharp. Looked vastly nicer (and smaller) than the Accord next to it. Much more to my tastes. Interior looked sharp too.

I asked my friend how the cloth seats compare to his leather. he said they were comfy, with nice fabric (way nicer than a Camry) that should be durable, but the leather car felt bigger, since it was easier to get in/out (sliding on the leather). Interesting perspective.

I will report back after I get to try the insides, but the back seat looked plenty roomy to me.

bobny11580

Regarding your question about Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires, at 5,300 miles I replaced the OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92s on my 2005 Outback XT Ltd with the Michelins. I saw immediate improvement in wet weather traction which was an issue with the Potenzas. Likewise, dry traction improved greatly as the ride became somewhat noisier. I am completely pleased with this tire upgrade which cost me dearly...$1,000 for four tires out the door and I would do it again after 4,000 of experience. My Outback performs so much better. These tires bring out all the great qualities that I expected from the car. What the OEM tires did have was a softer, smoother ride and gas mileage was 1-2 mpg better. So if you lean toward performance at the expense of noise and mpg I think you will appreciate the Michelins'.

Bob

poisson

I agree - they are flat-spotting. I never had a tire to do it after one night. The only thing I can attribute it to is the high treadwear (harder rubber?). I have increased tire pressure and it is less of a problem.

stickguy

Geez, I typed a big long post before, and for some reason it didn't hit. Must have forgotten to hit the button, or I put it someplace I can't find!

anyway, sat in and drove the 2.5i ltd. I discussed above. Very impressesd with the interior, comfort and driving experience. Surprisingly quiet, and excellent driving dynamics (smooth ride, but firm steering and sharp handling). Interior also seemed pretty upscale, and very well put together.

Yes, a little smaller than the CamCOrd (in/out), but I prefer the tidier outside dimensions, and inside it had plenty of room for me. I'm 6', and easily fit in the back seat behind the driver, and the seat was back farther than I would probably keep it. In any case, more than enough room for my kids.

So, I am sold, especially at the price I would probably end up paying. Lotta car for the money.

Most important, I loved the way it drove (A Camry is a mush pit in comparison), and it is somewhat unique in a sea of bland. Plus, what some might consider a drawback (the size), I consider a plus.

MPG is a little lower than some in the class, but comparable to a Fusion (that I was also considering), but still not bad for a mid size family sedan, especially given the AWD set up.

So, if things go according to my new plan, I will have a Sube for the winter, assuming I can actually find a 5 speed to buy!

xwesx

I've never had a problem with flat-spotting at any temps >-10F or so. Either that, or I just didn't notice it. It gets really noticeable at sub-twenty-below temps and it never goes completely away in temps colder than -50F or so. What temperatures are you talking about with the TripleTreds? I had considered them for my next all-season tire, but may reconsider if it is a noticable issue at "warm" temperatures.....

theooutback

Nice to hear Stickguy. The 2.5i won me over in a single test drive. I actually feel excited about this car!

c_hunter

The Yoko Geolanders on our 03 Forester would flatspot over a long weekend at any temperature. The Firestone Wilderness tires on my 00 Outback would flatspot overnight at any temperature.

Craig

xwesx

Hahahhaha..... I think I just realized what the difference may be between you (and others) noticing it and me not.... I would guess that the smoother the road surface, the more noticable the flatspotting. The first 1.2 miles from my house are... on the scale of offroad to 10, at about a 2.

I notice it at -20 or less F.

c_hunter

Yeah, I guess the road surface is a more important factor!

Craig

poisson

Good point on road surface. Any direction from my house is relatively smooth. I notice it the most when I get on the parkway straightaway.
As I said, aside from this 'feature', I absolutely love the tire.

zman3

I currently own a 98 Outback. Sometime in the next year I will probably replace it, I just need to do my endless research first. I would like to stick with an AWD vehicle. I will also have about $1K in Subaru bucks, so I am leaning towards buying another Subaru. I am having an internal struggle over whether to go cheap and look at a 2.5 Legacy sedan or spend more $$ and buy an Outback H6 or turbo. Fortunately, it is up to me as to how much I want to spend.

Now my question. Resale value will be a factor in which vehicle I buy. On a percentage basis does anyone know if the Outbacks hold their value better than base Legacies, or are all Legacy based vehicles about the same in resale value? I don't want to go cheap only to find out that a higher priced vehicle would have made more sense.

Thanks gang.

Karl

aaykay

I think the Outbacks have a better resale value than the Legacies, historically. Probably due to our fixation with an SUV-like vehicle.

ateixeira

Among Subies, it would probably easiest to sell an Outback or Forester with an automatic transmission.

You play the odds, and by far that's what most buyers want. 93% want automatic, and Outback and Forester and #1 and #2 sellers, respectively.

-juice

glenford

Karl - I would think the choice you make to keep a car for 8 years is actually much more important in the equation. If you only kept it 3-5 years model might be a much bigger factor. It looks like 99 was the first year for the Outback (that I could find in the TMV listings). Legacy private sale is about 5800, Outback around 6200 - and I can't tell what equipment differences they had. You can eat up that difference in gas costs over the life of the car.

Get what you want! :-) Tim

raybear

According to KBB, the Outback has the highest anticipated resale value of any station wagon out there...but have a good look at the base model with the normally-aspirated 4, it runs on regular and since you already have a similar engine you won't miss anything in the performance dept.

ejj

I think the Outback used to be a trim package on the Legacy. I just sold my '96 and it was sold as such. Bought a new '06. Holy crap, what a nice car. Of course, I was used to turning on the lights anytime I wanted to adjust the heat, etc...

One silly complaint on the new rig: the key/fob is/are larger than a lightsaber. I don't think they even fit in my pocket. I need a key holster.

ateixeira

The new ones have 175hp, that ought to be more than adequate, and mileage is good (on regular fuel, too).

-juice

zman3

That is the one thing I actually don't like about my 98 OB. I have an automatic and at times I find it a bit anemic. Out of the gate it seems fine, but don't try to accelerate at freeway speeds. It seems to take a day and a half.

I don't know if the extra 8-10hp of the newer models will make any difference or not, but I guess I'll have to start driving the various different models and see which one seems to fit the bill.

After thinking about it last night I am not sure I am going to be that worried about resale value on my next car. If I keep it 8 years again it will be an opportune time to pass on to my oldest kid, who would then be 17 at the time. I'm not sure I would want to hand off a turbo however. :confuse:

ateixeira

Actually, a base Outback should be a good vehicle for a teen. Big enough but still efficient, safe, AWD traction, and not too much power to get them in trouble, or to even consider street racing.

-juice

stickguy

I must be brave, considering a Legacy non-turbo with a manual. It might actually keep my promise to my wife that I am done for a long time!

But, with college starting in 3.5 years, I don't think I will have much opportunity to upgrade (maybe downgrade though..)

zman3

I feel kind of ignorant for even asking this but....

Can a turbo be easily disconnected/unplugged if I didn't want to pass it on to my kid, or does the computer choke if the turbo dies?

I am wondering from both a safety/responsibility standpoint but also from a long term repair cost standpoint. If I did hand the car down it would have 100K on it and I don't know if turbos start having issues sooner than normally aspirated Subarus.

woodshop28

We have a 2005 non-turbo with a manual. My wife and I like it. I found no better value.
Would I have preferred to buy an Automatic. Nope. We prefer a manual.
Would I have preferred the turbo. Heck yeah, but we hope to have kids in the near future, and plan to do a few things to our house, so priorities dictated the non-turbo. Also, we average 28-29 MPG. Turbo requires premium fuel, and gets about 5MPG less, EPA.
The non-turbo has decent power, I think. It merges onto the interstate fine. The 2006s have 8 more HP, too.
Bottom line: Value. Happy driving.

ateixeira

The turbo is mixed up with all the exhaust plumbing. This would not be an easy thing to accomplish.

-juice

woodshop28

That would be really cool, but can't be easily done. The turbo engines are "beefed up," so you should get good longevity out of it. Subaru has been turbo-charging cars for a long time.
Some turbo cars do require a turbo replacement after many years of service, but that is not a huge deal, really.
The turbo Legacy is quite powerful. A young driver would have a tough time keeping his/her foot out of it. Heck, my nearly 60 year old dad has a tough time keeping his foot out of it.