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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Diesels

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  • eliaselias Posts: 1,900
    folks, good to hear about some reliable new benzes. our 1999 E320 wagon had a huge # of warranty issues and dealer visits in the first year - it was ridiculous. if you check the other E320 forums here you'll see an amazing # of horror stories. who knows, maybe i'll take the benz plunge again some year. there were so many things i loved about the E320!
    best regards, folks!
  • I see on the web (germancarfans.com/manufacturers/mb) a July 2005 announcement from MB of the availability in Europe of the 2006 E320 CDI 4MATIC with an all new V6 diesel engine. Given MB's past history of introducing first in Europe and a year later in the US, is it likely that this spells the end of the in-line 6 diesel now offered here in favor of the V6 for the 2007 models?

    The real question is whether this new engine will meet US environmental standards required for a tax credit under the new Energy bill signed by the President this summer.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes, the current I6 diesel is history for the 2007 model year. Mercedes is certifying the new V6 using clean diesel for the 2007 model year. The only question is when, not if. Clean diesel isn't mandatory until Sept 2006, so I'd say at the earliest Nov-Dec 2006 the new V6 CDI models will arrive. These should include a ML320 and R320 CDI also.

    M
  • Thanks for the inputs. The MB United Kingdom website offers further details on the "Second Generation Diesels" now on sale there. MB UK says the E320 CDI V6 with seven speed automatic transmission has fuel consumption of
    City - 26.7 mpg
    Extra urban - 47.1 mpg
    Combined - 37.2 mpg
    a top speed of 155 mph, does 0-62.5 in 6.8sec, and meets EU4 environmental standards.

    Am I missing something, or are those mpg figures significantly better than those of the 2006 in-line 6 CDI now on sale in the US? Due to the new transmission and its effect on highway mileage?

    Any idea whether passing EU4 means it will also pass the Energy Bill tax credit standards?

    If these suppositions are correct, sounds like a good idea to wait for the 2007.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I think the MPG are a bit skewed as those are Imperial gallons. Still for a big car it is very good. EU4 standards are not as stringent as our new EPA regs due out soon. Our standards are more concerned with getting each and every particle of pollution from the exhaust. CO2 and mileage are secondary. That is where the US and the rest of the world are not in agreement.
  • Right you are - I must be losing it! Converting to US gallons gives 22.2 city, 39.3 highway and 31 combined, compared with 27/37/32 for the I6. Not enough difference to sway a decision. Wonder why the city mileage on the V6 is lower?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well that seven speed tranny definitely helps. I'd definitely wait for the 2007 model because the E-Class in general is also up for a facelift for 2007.

    M
  • Hi Merc1:
    I think you may have mentioned this 2007 facelift for the E class, but the dealerships locally have both indicated this will be in '09. Do you have a source for your comment? Are we talking significant change in appearance?
    I haven't yet purchased my CDI. Have been thinking I'll do it any day because am wanting to have the in-line 6, but am open to considering the V6 if there is evidence that it will match reliability of the inline6.
    :confuse:
    Thanks!!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well what they're talking about is an all-new E-Class, yes that will probably arrive in 2009 if Mercedes keep their current 7-year model run schedule. However the E is due for a "facelift" for 2007. New lights, bumpers, new features, engines etc. Nothing major, just a refreshening.

    M
  • M-
    Aah! That clarifies things. Where do you get your "inside scoop"? Is there info out there on which options they'll be adding? (I will miss the rear heated seats that my Audi A6 has! Keep hoping that will come along in the E-class.) Will new headlights likely be more similar to the S class? I'm sure that MBZ doesn't want this info out before the models are nearly out because it wants to keep the selling fever high for the current year, but...
    Thx
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just various websites like Germancarfans.com, Germancarforums.com and others. Mercedes is very predictable when it comes to when new models and facelifts will appear.

    Generally they produce a model for 7 years with a facelift coming for year 4 or 5 and generally a new engine only comes during or after a facelift, or in some rare cases they will introduce a new car and engine at the same time, but that doesn't happen very often.

    Once a new engine debuts in the lineup, like the new 3.5L V6 it is just a matter of time before every other V6 Mercedes gets the new engine, usually within 6-10 months. Now for 2006 every MB (except the outgoing S350) has the new DOHC V6 in either 3.5L, 3.0L or 2.5L guise.

    This new V8 in the 2007 S500 will be present in every other Mercedes with a "500" badge by the 2007 model year, though they'll stagger the introductions, but you can bet that the current 3-valve SOHC is outta here.

    The facelifted E-Class will likely be shown at the Geneva auto show in March 2006, on will go on sale here like in July/August, but the diesel might be a little longer since clean diesel isn't law until Sept 2006.

    M
  • Thank you!! Appreciate understanding the "template" used by MBZ!

    I was even starting to think about just waiting and getting the V6 diesel in the E class, but I also read that they are adding a particulate filter which seems to me like another maintenance expense/potential problem area, as well as less tried & true technology, so am bumping up my time frame to accomodate somewhat.

    However, I think these filters are already in place in EU?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    The filters work with low sulfur diesel Our diesel is so bad it would clog up the filter very quickly. The people I have talked to with the E320 CDI love them. One fellow that has a home in Dallas & here in San Diego makes a lot of trips between the two. He says he never gets less than 37 MPG on the highway driving well over the sped limit most of the time. If we drove more I would get one for sure. It is overkill for running errands to the store.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    However, I think these filters are already in place in EU?

    Yes they are, and they work fine from everything I've read on other boards. Gagrice is right about them when it comes to why they aren't the current U.S. market E320 CDI, they'd have to be changed way too often. Once clean diesel is mandatory, the filter change can be done at the same time as the regular service is performed.

    M
  • smwls8smwls8 Posts: 103
    Is the current I6 a cast iron block construction, what is the future V6 diesel block construction? If it is an alloy or aluminum construction, it might have an impact on my future car buying plans. Since anecdotal evidence seems to run rampant in this forum, my 2 BMW's have been more trouble free than the 1 M-B I have owned. I am considering a 5 series vs the E class, although the 3.0 liter 6 speed 5 series is rated 20 city 30 highway. The prospects of a 6-700 mile range is very appealing along with the other benefits of a diesel engine (longevity, torque). The BMW I6 is no slouch either, but just doesn't produce the fuel economy or longevity of the I6 diesel. One could argue that these are two very different cars, one being more of a highway cruiser while the other having a more sporting flare, but as my wife's primary vehicle, I am just happy she doesn't mind driving a manual transmission!
  • Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth, in deciding between the E320CDI or 5 series, you base the decision on what you/your wife would like to drive for the next 3-5-7+ years that you intend to keep it.

    One of my business partners is a Mercedes diesel guy. Drives a 2005 CDI that he traded in his 1999 E300TD for. Still has a 300D that he passed down to one of his daughters in college. Blew up an old 240D because he was too cheap (his words) to buy a new thermostat and it overheated or he'd be pushing 400k miles in it.

    I have great respect for him - he's the best partner I've ever had - but I have a different opinion on what I like to drive. Other than his old 240D, he has never owned a stick. He enjoys driving my 2003 M5 on occasion, but would never be considered a driving enthusiast. I have to remind him that 4000+ rpm doesn't blow up a BMW engine. I am very comfortable as a passenger in his car, but I would find it far less fun to drive on a routine basis than a 530i 6-speed.

    With respect to the points you made on the benefits of the E320 CDI vs. 530i, I would point out the following: (1) Both engines will probably last longer than 95% of buyers would likely keep the car. The I6 BMW is good for 200k miles+ with proper maintenance. (2) The rest of the car is what I would consider. My partner's 16 month old E320 CDI has been back to the shop more than my 3 Year old M5. Your anecdotal evidence regarding reliability appears to be the rule, not the exception, comparing the current E class to 5 series. If you think a new Mercedes diesel will be as "frugal" to keep on the road as an old 240/300D, think again. (3) Fuel efficiency differences (between 530i and E320 CDI, not my M5) are small dollars in the overall scheme of things with $50k+ vehicles. Do the math and it probably works out to about the difference between BMW still giving you free maintenance and Mercedes not. (4) 600+ mile ranges are great for Montana, but I assume you live somewhere where thery have running water and gas stations? My orthopedic surgeon has a poster in his office with recommendations for keeping ones body and joints healthy. I believe item #3 is to never drive more than 2-3 hours without stopping, walking around and stretching.

    I am not trying to talk you out of an E-diesel and into a 5-gas. I'm just suggesting that the driving differences are apples and oranges, especially with a 5-series manual / sport package car. That, IMO, should be the primary basis for your decision.
  • I am wondering if anyone has an opinion about buying from the local dealer vs. out of state? I have found a much better deal on the car that I am looking for out of state, even including shipping to me. How important is it to have a salesman relationship/contact once the car is in my driveway? (The local dealers would have me think it is very important, and thus I should pay at least $1000 more for the car...) Am I being penny-wise and pound foolish to go with a non-local dealer?
  • I have purchased four new Mercedes since 1995 and I must say that after the sale on the first three the salesman quit or went to another dealer. My latest buy, by chance, was from the same salesman that sold me the first MB but he was at a different dealer. It is my opinion that it probably makes no difference where you purchase the vehicle as long as it is from an authorized MB dealer. Anyway, what can the salesman do after the sale? Good luck on your decision.
  • i am a nubie to the site so please forgive in errors.

    Are there many discounts on E300 cdi like this available. how does one located a loaded cdi with large discounts. live in nashville.

    i've been a long time fan of MB diesels having bought my first ( a 1983 300D ) in 1982 and special ordered an 1987 300 SDL from the factory in1986. My 300D is now up to 361k miles with only minor problem and is still going strong as is my 1987SDL.

    But i wanted to cover my bases and I figuring diesels would be in short supply plus not being pleased about all of the negative quality reports about mercedes, last year on impulse i bought an 2004 Passat tdi. It just isn't the same as the benz. i frankly like my old 300d better, but it can't last forever.

    I gather form this site i should be able to get top dollar for the 2004 tdi in Ca. It only has 3k miles and stays garaged. How would one go about selling a diesel car like the tdi in Ca if it isn't legal in Ca.?

    And where can i find discounts on a 2005n or 2006 cdi like the ones mentioned.

    Thank you any input or guidence

    bill owen
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I purchased my last three cars from ourt of state dealers - two Acura's and a Porsche. The Porsche dealer is only 55 miles away, so I will probably take it to them for major service. But in the case of the Acuras, I have had no problem taking them to a local dealer for routine service and, in one case, a recall repair to the HVAC system. The local dealer's service manager could care less that I bought them out of state and he has followed up with each service to make sure I was pleased.

    Mercedes doesn't offer the free service anymore, so I see no reason why you should be anxious about buying out of state.
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