Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

yatesd

I am carefully comparing the Odyssey to the Sienna. I like the gas mileage of the Sienna, but have noticed two things:

Sienna

1. The highway mileage rating dropped from 27 to 26 MPG on the 05 model compared to the 04.
2. It appears high octane fuel is recommended. Was premium used for the HP/Torque ratings? What is the rated HP/Torque/MPG when only running regular? For me this is important because the cost is generally at least 10% more for high octane, and I could easily compare to something with a lower MPG rating (approximately 23 MPG equivalent).

Odyssey

I am tempted by the VCM on the Honda, but am dissapointed that it is only available on higher trim levels. I am also concerned about the reliability of this technology. Has anyone had any problems yet? Will the additional vibration shorten the life compared to a traditional system. I understand that the system is imperceptable to the driver, but I guess the engine does actually vibrate more in ECO mode.

Any thoughts?

--
Doug

samnoe

"Many have spoken about items that should be included given the price of these units. Here's my pet peeve - no night lighting for the power window and lock switches in the Sienna. Don't know about the Honda because I haven't driven one at night but doubt they have lighting either..."

Then there is a surprise for you. Honda added on the new Ody illuminated power switches. Kudos for Honda.

Wish Toyota should start offering them, too. No single Toyota vehicle have it, but some Lexus do. That's a feature most other manufacturers do offer.

I agree with you: Decisions, decisions...

carzzz

The toyota sienna has one of the smallest 3rd row leg room (35.1) compare to ody (41.1) is 6 inches difference! No wonder many says that the 3rd row sienna has a "kid size" bench!

rorr

"The toyota sienna has one of the smallest 3rd row leg room (35.1) compare to ody (41.1)..."

Do you frequently pull numbers out of....thin air or is this the first time?

Edmunds lists the rear seat leg room for BOTH vehicles at 39.6". No source I could find was even CLOSE to the 35.1" you've cited. And they list the front seat legroom at 2" (42.9" vs. 40.8") GREATER for the Sienna. Since I wasn't sure if the figures listed by Edmunds for the 'rear seat' legroom applied to the 2nd row or the 3rd row, I checked the manufacturer's websites for both Toyota and Honda.

Toyota lists the legroom for all 3 rows as follows: 42.9 (front), 39.6 (mid), 39.5 (3rd row)

Honda lists the legroom for all 3 rows as follows: 40.8 (front), 40.0 (mid), 41.1 (rear).

Somehow, I don't see the 6 inches in disparity. It's actually closer to about an inch and a half. But since I intend to spend more of my time in the FRONT seat, the 2" of advantage for the Sienna over the Ody means a bit more to me.

stickguy

having riden in the 3rd row of each, the Ody definitely seems to have more room. Plus, the 2nd row slides forward if you more. The Sienna just seemed more cramped overall in the rear (head and legs).

I found them both to be real roomy in the drivers seat, to the extent that I had to pull the seat up fairly far to reach the pedals. The Honda also fit me better (the way the seat adjusted). I did sit in the passenger seat and don't remembet a difference between the 2, but I would never ride over there anyway.

They both have noticably more room than our Quest in the front.

georgekaplan

We picked up a late run 2004 xle sienna w/ es package back in mid sept. This van has been a fantastic addition. glad we got the late run '04 instead of the new '05's...for obvious reasons.

Anyhow, all of this Oddy v Sienna talk is getting WAYYY too heated. It's like this, if you put two comparable models from each company side by side, blindfolded yourself and picked one, you couldn't go wrong...unless you picked the Oddy.

Rock on Sienna!

Just kidding. Both vans have something over the other in different areas. It boils down to your personal pref in YOUR "key areas of interest". Whatever you choose, take care of it and it should last a very long time.

Zoom-Zoom....wait, that's for...The Others.

george

carzzz

I did not make up this number, it is exactly what i read from toyota Canada

http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/2/wo/Home.Vehicle- s.Go.Sienna-Zbm4WDPmw6NAlb7qET5y8g/3.11?v151040e%2ehtml

and they also put "35.1" on the brochure!

http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/2/wo/Home.Vehicle- s.Go.Sienna-Zbm4WDPmw6NAlb7qET5y8g/5.15?v151080e%2ehtml

jlev

have deal on table 479/month 15k miles 0 down...dvdand navi...39 months...anyone out there know if this is a fair deal...seems to be and i might take it, as dealer has car ready to go...

rorr

Exceptionally odd. Toyota.com lists a different spec for rear-seat legroom:

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/sienna/specs.html

Now I'm curious about where Edmunds gets their numbers (especially since they list the rear seat legroom for both vehicles as the same 39.6").

carzzz

Sienna has "Kid-size 3rd-row bench" that's what the auto.consumerguide.com describe it

Ody, the plus 1 seat is "only good for kids" from auto.consumerguide.com, also "Third-row has adult-size room"

Therefore, i would think that Toyota "Canada" measurement is more realistic...

Ody has a legroom of 1044 mm ~= 41.1 inch (almost the of the best in class 41.2in for Quest), if it is true that sienna has a leg room of 35.1 inch, then even MPV has a better 3rd row legroom than it!

To all dearest 2004+ sienna owners:

can you please post a measurement of the 3rd row legroom!

Thank you

ewt

The third row in the Sienna is a lot bigger than kid size. I'm 6'1" with a 34" inseam and it's fine for me. I don't have a lot of extra leg room, but it's definitely an adult size seat. From my brief exprience in an 05 Odyssey, I didn't think it was any bigger. Measuring legroom seems to vary a lot by source. Comparisions of measurements from different sources are pretty meaningless.

midwestfan1

Sounds like a good deal. I leased for 465/mo, 15k miles, O down, 39 months with everything but the navi. The dealer had the one I took on the lot, too. I've had it a couple of weeks (750 miles) and am very happy with the car.

We, of course, compared the Ody and the Sienna (we are still happy with our 02 Sequoia), but my tall family was more comfortable with the Ody seats.

So far Honda has been a pleasure to deal with.

Good luck!

carzzz

Toyota sinenna got a 60/40 split 3rd row (from left to right), and Honda Ody got a 40/60 split 3rd row (from left to right), does it make a better view from ody with 2 passengers on 3rd row (right side) because the mirror is showing more of the left image?

scienceman

My guess is this number is what Consumer Reports calls fore-aft room, which is a slightly different number. CR defines it as the room from the rear of the seat bench to the back of the seat back just ahead. So it is more of a knee room measurement. I humbly think knee room is a better measurement. Now the question is what does Honda of Canada list on thier website.

hansienna

Ody, the plus 1 seat is "only good for kids" from auto.consumerguide.com

     I am 5' 8" 165 lbs and the Ody "plus 1 seat" is comfortable for me IF all seats in 2nd row are set at same distance from front seats. I would prefer riding ANY distance sitting on the Ody plus 1 seat than riding the same distance sitting on the rear seat of almost any modern sedan.

     The 2005 Odyssey has the best leg and knee room in all seats of any 2004 or 2005 minivan.

carzzz

Here is the site for Honda Canada!

http://www.honda.ca/Honda/Models/Odyssey/2005/Specifications.asp?- L=E

3rd row leg room = 1044mm = 41.1 inch! Compare to sienna 35.1 inch.... 6 inches is a huge difference! I think Ody is bigger on 3rd row b/c sienna has a "oversized" Cargo which i think it decreases the 3rd row legroom!

greg_y

I am 6' 3" and I fit easily into the 2004 Sienna back seat. Don't forget that the middle row of Sienna seats is also adjustable if the people in the back need more knee room.

My other point is, how many times do adults ride in the back seats of the mini-vans... really?

stickguy

the middle row of the Ody slides up too, so numbers will vary depending on what measurement you use.

I felt the same way about adults in the back, until my wife reminded me that she does it fairly often when we are transporting company (such as my parents). Of course, I don't ride back there.

rorr

Toyota USA lists the 3rd row legroom for the Sienna as 39.5", not the 35.1" listed on the Toyota Canada site. Obviously, since the Canadian Siennas are dimensionally identical to the US Siennas, there is a typo in the specifications; either on the US site or on the Canadian site.

Why don't we resolve which site has the correct info before we build our ENTIRE CASE for the Ody over a mythical 6" advantage in 3rd row legroom?

Regarding the location of the 60/40 split: if I understand you correctly, the Sienna has the larger 60% on the driver's side. This makes more sense from a cargo carrying standpoint. By moving the 2nd row seats together (right seat towards the center position), and folding down the 40% portion of 3rd row (the right side), I've created a long aisle for carrying long objects (8' lumber) AND retained my capacity to carry 2 passengers in the 3rd row. Can't do that with the Ody because the 60/40 split is the wrong way.

gkkim

..."Regarding the location of the 60/40 split: if I understand you correctly, the Sienna has the larger 60% on the driver's side. This makes more sense from a cargo carrying standpoint. By moving the 2nd row seats together (right seat towards the center position), and folding down the 40% portion of 3rd row (the right side), I've created a long aisle for carrying long objects (8' lumber) AND retained my capacity to carry 2 passengers in the 3rd row. Can't do that with the Ody because the 60/40 split is the wrong way."

rorr - I would respectfully disagree. They both work, depending how/where you choose to store the cargo. My guess is that if you're carrying a long object, the one of the middle row seat will be removed regardless. At the same time, having the third row on the right/passenger side allows for access from the side walk/curb that a car/van may usually parked. This is a more passenger oriented guess.

sportymonk

Having been here in awhile by georgekaplan Nov 01, 2004 (12:14 pm)
Bookmark | Reply

We picked up a late run 2004 xle sienna w/ es package back in mid sept. This van has been a fantastic addition. glad we got the late run '04 instead of the new '05's...for obvious reasons.

Excuse me but what are the obvious reasons? I'm not aware of the differences.

hawaii1

Has anyone experienced back problems with the seats in either the Sienna or Odyessy? We are contemplating to buy either one of these 2 vans or Acura MDX. Found the support to be best in Acura but like the vans better.

georgekaplan

sportymonk, I may have overstated that but what I meant was that normally late run manufactured models have more kinks worked out than new run models. Granted the differences are not too great, but there are a number of things that may need fine tuning on 05's next spring. Also, we got a great deal on the '04.

George

hansienna

Can Honda produce more 2005 Odysseys or can Toyota produce more 2005 Siennas?
    Even though the final results of the 2004 Presidential Election are not yet determined, most reviewers believe the 2005 Odyssey is THE best minivan.

davenow

...oh... it's over...

stever

Editors' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2005

Steve, Host

ewt

Here, let me beat HanOdyssey to the punch:

The 05 Odyssey is THE BEST MINIVAN according to Edmunds

stever

aw, you're supposed to plow through the article first :-)

The Sienna, last year's winner, took the Honorable Mention spot this time.

Steve, Host

hansienna

BUT: What is the maximum number of 2005 Odyssey minivans that Honda could build if the demand was unlimited?
     What is the maximum number of 2005 Siennas?
     Would is the maximum number of 2005 Grand Caravan and/or Town & Country minivans?

ewt

The production capacity for Honda and Toyota would depend on demand for the other vehicles produced at the same plant(s). I'm not sure if Chrysler produces any other vehicles at their minivan plants. I doubt any of them are operating at capacity judging by inventory on dealer lots.

heywood1

Odyssey has 'latest in creature comforts'? I guess the editors ignored the Honda's lack of a telescoping steering wheel and operating vent windows in the third row. Honda people--and the automotive press--definitely see what they want to see.....

andrewtran71

"REQUIRES 87 octane minimum (regular unleaded). It does state that 91 octane or higher (premium) is RECOMMENDED for increased performance."

A friend of mine has a Mercedes ML350, which says it REQUIRES Premium Unleaded, according to my friend. However, the dealership told her she could use Unleaded Plus, so she does.

My Lexus LS400 says, "Must Use Premium Unleaded Only".
But for the last 3 fill-ups, I used the Unleaded Plus, instead of Premium.
I have not noticed any difference at all. No noise. No knocking. No weird acceleration noise.

andrewtran71

"how many times do adults ride in the back seats of the mini-vans... really?"

That's where my mother-in-law and father-in-law sit when they ride with us, which is like once a week.

georgekaplan

What did you nimods think would happen. Of course Honda would be given the "best of show" for 2005. They will also get it from just about every other pub this fall and next spring. These things are bogus...except for Consumer Reports. The two models are pretty even but Honda is new. I mean, put two and two together.

george

andrewtran71

I think they gave the Ody #1 because the NAV is bigger and better, the DVD RES is bigger and better, it has 6 CD changer on NAV models, and the instrument panel looks a lot prettier.
Also all models come with 3 row curtain airbags, traction control, and stability control.
Also you get PlusOne seating in EX models and Lazy Susan storage in all models.

They didn't care too much about AWD option, Laser Cruise, woodtrim, softer ride, Tire Pressure Monitoring on all models, and power hatchback even on XLE cloth.

Unless Toyota can match all those features, plus keep all existing cool features or add more, I agree the Ody is #1----also unless the Ody is less reliable in the long run with Variable Cylinder Management and Active Noise Control.

stever

The residents of that town in Minnesota didn't pick the winner, our editors did.

The Nimrods (Nimrodians?) would probably have gone with the AWD version of the Sienna.

Steve, Host

ewt

"What did you nimods think would happen"

Did you mean nimrod? You may be too dense to realize it, but I was poking fun at our fellow poster Hansienna who's enthusiasm for all things Odyssey USUALLY INCLUDES MANY WORDS TYPED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. I'm actually a Sienna owner who is still very happy with my purchase. Consumer Reports may be good for ranking blenders, but I'd prefer to get my car advice from publications that acually enjoy driving the cars they test. Also, if you'll go back a few months, you'd find that C & D actually ranked the old Odyssey higher than the new Sienna, so newer doesn't always win.

FWIW, I think the current Sienna and Odyssey are pretty even. Each has nice features the other is missing and has their own set of strengths/weaknesses. If were buying again, I'm not sure which one I'd buy, although the PAX wheels/tires might be a dealbreaker for me on the Honda.

ch1313

"I guess the editors ignored the Honda's lack of a telescoping steering wheel and operating vent windows in the third row. Honda people--and the automotive press--definitely see what they want to see..... "

You are definitely right about this. Most car reviewers from either magazines or sites like Edmund see only what they want to see. Not all of them are real consumers in a sense that they have children/family. Not all of them need to run errands and see if the car works for them. Another thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is to these reviewers price is no objection. Most of the time they review cars that are top of the line with all bells and whistles - not all of us can afford.

mst

After considering the Odyssey vs Sienna, we went with the 2005 Sienna LE-8, BX pkg (just picked it up; 4 weeks from order date to delivery date).

Various reasons: A major factor was cost (got a 2005 Sienna for under invoice, in Sep 2004 no less). As far as cost and attitude go, we were mindful to stay focused and objective, and not to get caught up in all the hype that commonly surrounds any new redesigned vehicle release (i.e. the 05 Ody). Apparently there’s no short supply of buyers who’ll fork over MSRP+ when a comparable (or possibly better) vehicle can be had for $1000’s less (most likely all the hype surrounding the recent release of the 05 Ody worked in our favor at the Toyota Dealers).

Other reasons: we prefer not to get involved in debugging Odyssey’s ‘sometimes 3-cylinder’ experiment; we didn't like the 'plastic farm' inside the Odyssey; the 8-th seat was a big factor for us, (Odyssey 8th seat might work for stick people; looked like an afterthought application to us); we liked the overall look feel (inside and out) of the Sienna better, etc.

Obviously, this is our personal preference - in our particular case, the best choice for US was easy. However, both vehicles seem to be great vans and either one is a giant step up from our old Chrysler minivan

dulnev

"Odyssey has 'latest in creature comforts'? I guess the editors ignored the Honda's lack of a telescoping steering wheel and operating vent windows in the third row."

As far as I'm concerned, vent windows in the back are completelly useless. We pretty much NEVER open any windows in our cars. We greatly prefer the quiet, air-conditioned and micro-filtered environment with closed windows!

hansienna

Consumer Reports is THE BOGUS publication.
     Comfort is # 1 item for me and the Odyssey has THE most comfortable seats and the best leg room for all 3 rows.
     Glad Honda copied the Sienna 60/40 split folding 3rd row seating and the Chrysler separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger.
     The Odyssey would be even better had Honda copied the Chrysler very nice, complete overhead console. Toyota was smart enough to copy these items from Chrysler with the 2004 Sienna but only the most expensive Sienna has the separately controlled temperature feature while the Odyssey has the feature on all but the cheapest. (LX)

samnoe

"However, both vehicles seem to be great vans and either one is a giant step up from our old Chrysler minivan..."

Can you please tell us what year Chrysler minivan you replace, and give us some details about what you love in your new Sienna over the Chrysler van?

heywood1

As I and others have posted here previously, these power-operated rear vent windows are very useful for quickly removing hot air from the car before turning on the A/C.

hansienna

My 2002 T&C LX has features NOT yet placed on the 2005 Odyssey EX such as automatic door locks, overhead console with outside temperature/compass and an accurate Trip Computer, lighted controls for power windows and power rear vents on the front doors, and heating coils at the base of the windshield.
     My 2002 T&C LX is also much quieter and smoother riding than my son's 2001 Ody EX.
     However, the Odyssey has more comfortable seats for me than my T&C and the 2005 Ody EX has the 60/40 split "Magic Seat" and "plus one" seating in 2nd row. The Sienna 2nd row seats are less comfortable than my T&C but the Sienna also has seating capacity of 8 (which I would probably use rarely).
     Is the 2005 Odyssey EX worth $14,500 more to me than my 2002 T&C LX with 27,000 miles cost?
      NO

rorr

"...but only the most expensive Sienna has the separately controlled temperature feature while the Odyssey has the feature on all but the cheapest. (LX)"

Actually, both the Sienna XLE and the Ltd. have the separate automatic temperature feature as standard equipment, not just the Ltd. In addition, this is a TRI-zone automatic system (not just a dual zone sytem like the Ody) with automatic temp adjustment for drive, front passenger, and rear seat area.

greg_y

I know they are in-laws, but why make them ride in the back. That's kind of cold.

The above does not apply if you have car seats in the middle. However, the Sienna has car seat anchors in the rear so your in-laws could sit in the middle row and be afforded the comfort and respect they deserve.

Kirstie_H

An Edmunds.com reporter wants your opinion: “What are the coolest cars for soccer moms?” Please email jhelperin@edmunds.com with which vehicles you like and why. Please respond by this Monday, 11/8, with “soccer moms” in the subject line.

anz

Ody Ex and Sienna Xle have the cabin air filter. Does Sienna LE have it?

stewbaccachew

Have to completely disagree with you on this one. We ALWAYS use our rear venting windows. especially when my little girl is sitting back there. I MUCH prefer fresh air than AC. But you might live in a more humid part of the country. In Northern California, there really isn't much need for the AC most of the time.

**As far as I'm concerned, vent windows in the back are completelly useless. We pretty much NEVER open any windows in our cars. We greatly prefer the quiet, air-conditioned and micro-filtered environment with closed windows!**

isellhondas

Someone commented in these forums about using the rear vent windows on an Odyssey. Since I read that I have made a point to look at 1999-2004 Odysseys going down the road. I have yet to see one with the rear vent windows opened.

Funny how something that isn't important to most can be so important to others.