I rate both vans very closely. Sienna has the fit finish and ergonomics all over Ody... placement of switches and latchs, handles and layout. Sienna has a concert hall soundsystem compared with Ody. Just test drove an 05 Sienna, transmission seems to have been sorted out compared to the 04. Shifts are smooth and clean. Still it's a toss up each has features the other lacks. HID/ Laser C and JBL or Boise would make Ody perfect in my book.
- Quest has MPG counter. Neat and bad. I'm getting only 15 mpg of my Quest. All things considered, it doesn't make a difference. A can of Coke costs more than a gallon of gas.
- Quest has auto-dim mirror. Neat
Just FYI, the Sienna has the MPG counter from the LE model (with any package) and up, and the auto-dim mirror in the Limited model (interior AND exterior mirror).
I think the Ody also have the MPG counter on the Touring.
2 Things nobody mentioned, the Sienna 'Limited' and Odyssey 'Touring'.. Where are these words coming from? Yeah, you guessed: Copied that from Chrysler, too. Chrysler T&C have both, Touring & Limited...:-) And Chrysler also have both, the MPG counter (trip computer) and inside/outside auto dim mirror. Chrysler was actually the first to introduce this feature in a van. But they have small mirrors. The Quest's is H-U-G-E! and so is Siennas. It helps for a good view.
"Can be added to any Sienna as a port installed option."
Most people don't realize it, but an auto-dimming mirror with electronic compass and outside temperature display can be added to almost ANY vehicle. Such after-market mirrors cost about $200.
Hi Indy93, I drove an 04 Sienna LTD and indeed did notice the transmission shift not being clean or smooth. Do you know for a fact that with the 05 the shift is more clean and smooth or was that just your general opinion after driving it. I know I need to get out and drive an 05 to see for myself but I wanted to check with you first if that is something that Toyota has actually acknowledged and whether they are touting this improvment in the 05 model. Thanks, Dex
"All I want to know is, where in the hell are you buying $2 per can Coke?"
Oops. That's what happened when you press for time and trying to make your point accross. I meant to say a gallon of coke is more expensive than a gallon of gas. Then again, if you want to buy a can of coke during US Open, you'll be surprise how much you have to pay for it.
"First of all, where's this "$9 G" coming from? The price difference in less than $6,000 in reality. Second, you ever heard of this thing called "resale value"??? I would expect resale value for Quest to be 10-15% lower than for Sienna or Odyssey after 3-4 years. "
It's actually about $6,700 difference; I was comparing both vans using the wrong trim. Quest SE with all the standard equipment comes up to $28,729. Sienna with comparable trim comes up to $35,398. That is a $6,669 difference. Wait, then there is savings in gas (Sienna uses Premium gas only). Let's roughly estimate it about $250 a year - the total for 5 years come up to $1,250. Then there is the insurance saving of roughly $500. The total difference could potentially come up to $8,419. If let's say Quest is being sold 5 years from now for $8,000. If you add 15% of resalve value, Sienna would be sold for $9,200. You still save $7,210 after 5 years.
Of course, you expect 15% better resale value on the Sienna. Unless you are an expert in this area, you can predict that. Sienna has to have a better resale value of almost 100% to make the difference.
Look, my whole point of the discussion was yes Sienna and Odyssey could be better of all cars. Although Quest may be inferior to both two, it is backed by a reputational brand (with 5 year warranty). For the amount that you have to pay to get the extras (like side airbag and leather trim in Sienna), you can use the savings and put it in your retirement savings. Instead of saving $8,000, you could potentially save and additional 20% in return (depending who is the President and market condition). Everyone has choices of the vehicles that they can buy; however, everyone is limited by the ability to pay for them. I could have bought a Porsche 911; but I could only buy a Nissan 350Z. Note: Nissan 350Z beat Porsche in Cars and Driver magazine.
btw, just wondering why you sell your car (sienna) after 5 yrs, does it mean sienna could best lasting 5 yrs? and as i remember i read a post from edmund that a person got a sienna and sell it back and lost 5G (after a month) because the transmission failure... 5/28 is about ~= 18% no one will able to know resale value be after 5 yrs!
Sounds like you have spent a lot of time looking at both vans. On point/question, you mention that the Honda’s Memory seat does not remember side mirrors and power pedals positions. I agree that is nearly unacceptable! Our 1998 T&C LXI remembers seat and mirrors! That being said, from my research the Toyota does not even offer memory functionality on any of their vans. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I got my Odyssey Touring with Nav/DVD last weekend. IT IS JUST FANTASTIC! A friend of mine bought a Sienna XLE 3 months back. Both are in silver. You won't believe how similar they look!!! Our trained eyes can easily spot the difference but for a 'regular' person (meaning - spends less time on this forum and more time living their lives ) they look so much alike! All this talk about 'one being ugly when compared to the other' is wrong!!! I saw them next to each other. Same width/height/length! Screw the spec! Both look awesome!!!
My Odyssey drives perfect... no wind noise... feels connect to the rear... and feels completely under the drivers control!
My advice: If you are spending 35k+ on a mini-van you should add the navigation! Factory installed navigation is definitely better than something you would install afterwards. Don't cut corners here.
Your missing the point. My statement was a response to the statement that the 2005 Ody was ground breaking. You admit it is not. Also while you do get more on the base line Ody you also pay more. I know Toyota's packages are numerous and confusing, but if you look into it you will find comparable Toyota packages that are actually less expensive than Honda's. Further, another point which you missed is that you can bargain Toyotas down now because of the new Ody. So, in fact, if you do a bit of bargaining you should be able to get a comparable Seinna package for thousands less. Or if you wish, you could bargain the base line model way down. Another consideration of course is the Ody's less than stellar reliability record.
"Most people don't realize it, but an auto-dimming mirror with electronic compass and outside temperature display can be added to almost ANY vehicle. Such after-market mirrors cost about $200..."
This option is ONLY for interior mirror, but the Sienna, Quest and Town & Country offers the drivers side exterior too, which is more important to me, since all cars still offer a manual day/night mode on the inside mirror if a car follows you with high beams, but with the exterior mirror you can't help yourself (unless you have power mirrors and you turn it down.. way too down).
The 05 Sienna trans has been revised (programing). 05 Sienna also includes a new shifting mode designed to extend the life of the trans well beyond normal. This is not described in any literature just discovered this info today in "digging around".
I have been going back and forth between the Ody Touring and the Sienna LTD for some time now and have changed my mind countless times. I finally bought a 04 Sienna LTD today. If the Touring did not have PAX or if the EX/L had a power tailgate, I would have bought the Ody. Nonetheless, I want to share my findings for anyone who is looking to buy an Ody or Sienna in GA or north FL. I did most of the leg work via e-mail but found that you have to prod and have a few iterations before you get a solid price (unless you saw it on Edmunds and tell them what you saw which was the case of the Ody). Please note that in GA, the average doc fee is about $400. Sienna. In the southeast, most dealers have what is known as Toyoguard which is an utter waste of money and retails at around $699. I bought my 04 Sienna FWD LTD from the internet person at Cherokee County Toyota for a few hundred under invoice + doc + tt. It was painless and a pleasure to deal with them. The great thing about them is that none of their vans have this Toyoguard. If I was willing to drive about 3 /1/2 hours south of Atlanta to Albany, the best deal all round was at Fairway Toyota via their internet dept. They only have 05 Siennas and will sell them very close to invoice. They were very responsive via e-mail and I would have bought from them if I went the 05 route. They do have some of their Siennas without Toyoguard which is great. Definitely the best deal in GA for an 05. Ody Metro Atlanta is not great and the last time I checked was over a month ago and at that time (the prices may be lower now), the best 3 dealers were Thompson Honda, Hennessey Honda (via CostCo) and Carl Gregory Honda in Columbus all being around $500-600 or so below MSRP and all great and responsive via the internet. However, if one is prepared to travel south a little over 4 hours from Atlanta to Brunswick (the dealer there is Brunswick Honda), they will sell the 05 Ody at around $1800-1900 below MSRP. The internet person was great and I would most definitely have bought my Ody from them if I landed up going for an Ody. He gave the facts as they were as objectively as any dealer I have ever dealt with. He also offered to drive the Ody to me in Atlanta. If you are buying in GA or north FL, definitely check them out. I would have flown there on Delta from Atlanta for a little over $100 and then driven the car back. They have the best deals for an Ody in GA.
Correction, I gave the wrong name ... The Honda dealer in Brunswick, GA is not called Brunswick Honda. They are Nalley Honda and are a little over 4 hrs from Atlanta.
Sorry to disagree, but I test drove a 05 Sienna XLE AWD Limited with NAV and the transmission definitely had trouble finding gears during SOME accelerations.(It was odd that the dealer actually had this car on the lot, but it had just come in the day before and had not been presold.) It didn't happen all the time, but at least twice during the 10 -15 min test drive. During these times the engine seems to rev like the car is in neutral. Again, not all the time and it probably would not bother many people. But it IS still there and I found it distracting.
You are correct. It was rumored that Toyota would incorporate memory seats into the 05 Sienna, but it was just a pipe dream. Honda does have memory seats in the Touring model, but it does NOT remember mirror or power pedal position.
I have a AWD Limited, and experience a lag in downshifting about once a month if that. The only time it occurs on my Sienna is if I'm at low speed, lift completely, and then try to accelerate hard. It pauses for about .5 of a second, shifts rather hard, then accelerates. If I avoid lifting completely at low speed before accelerating, it never happens. I used to experience it more often coming around corners until I learned how to avoid it. Some of the early build Siennas seem to have more issues than that, but mine (built 1/04) works fine 99.999% of the time.
I test drove an XLE AWD and the transmission was anything but smooth. I was ready to buy it except I couldn't get past the rough transmission. I asked the dealer if I could test drive another car. An LE AWD came in yesterday, so I test drove it last night. The transmission on the LE was just as rough. I was leaning towards the Sienna prior to the test drives, but now I'm thinking the Ody might be the better choice.
Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks. While some might find the Sienna's transmission quirks annoying other's may not be bothered by it. Likewise,some might find the road feel of the Ody too harsh, while others like it. Obviously you have found a good way to work around the shifting issue and now you can enjoy that Lexus-like Sienna ride.
"You are correct. It was rumored that Toyota would incorporate memory seats into the 05 Sienna, but it was just a pipe dream. Honda does have memory seats in the Touring model, but it does NOT remember mirror or power pedal position."
You guys going to hate me for keep posting Nissan Quest here. Anyway, Quest SE has 2 settings memory seat including power pedal position. Not the mirror. Still cheaper than Sienna and Ody.
Does anyone know whether you can fit 3 carseats across the second row of the Sienna 8 passenger? I am having trouble locating an 8 passenger model in the Chicagoland area, and for some reason the dealers keep trying to steer us to the 7 passenger - maybe because the 8 is hard to get? In any case, the only thing I have to look at is 2 pics on the Toyota web site. Also, does the middle seat come out? If you leave it in, does it flip down into a table/console? How much smaller are the 2 end bucket seats in the 8 pass. vs. the 7 pass.? Any info would help - the dealers I am talking to seem to know NOTHING about the 8 passenger model.
i see it like this ... if you do not care about the power tailgate, in my humble opinion, the best buy is the Ody EX/L or EX (if you do not care for leather). With this you will get all the safety features standard. If you want RES or especially NAV, the Ody beats the Sienna hands down. With that said, the Sienna is much more luxurious inside. Both are great and you cannot go wrong. Another option I explored on the Sienna was to get the EXL with option #6 (if you are getting an 05 EXL) or option #14 (if you are getting an 04 EXL). This will give you just about everything the LTD has except for laser cruise, parking sensors and one or two other little things but is a much better value than the LTD. I decided for an 04 LTD as I could get it at just over 1k less than the 05 even though I will pay a price down the road in resale value. The Toyota dealers are really giving the Sienna away. This will put a lot of pressure on the Ody which will almost certainly start to come down in price quickly. btw, check out the CostCo auto finance program, it rocks. I will put a posting in the Sienna and also the Ody Price Paid forum.
The two capitan chairs are slightly narrower than on a 7 seater. They also do not have arm rests.
Importantly though I did learn the middle seat has a tether anchor on it like the sides, but I am not sure about latch. BTW, the Honda Ody with the 8th seat does not have an anchor in the middle position.
The middle seat does come out, but I don't think it folds down to make a table.
Because you can slide the middle seat foward of the two sides, should be pretty easy to get three car seats in there. At least I hope it is because this is the arrangement we want. We test drove a 7 pass with two car seats and the models we have fit easily on the chairs with room to spare, so I am confident we could shave a few inches and still be okay. May need to look for a narrower model for the middle just for ease of use.
We are in the same Toyota Region (Chicago) even though we are in Southern Indiana. The Toyota website shows the 8 seater only with package #6 here, however if you look in other regions by zip code it is made with #2 which is cheaper if you don't want some of the added safety stuff.
There are folks that post on the prices paid forum that 8 seaters...maybe we can get them to measure each of the seat cushions?
I almost dropped the hammer on ordering a van, but the dealer wouldn't give me what I wanted on my trade ($500 over KBB trade in). Back to the drawing board.
"I don't think the fake wood in the Sienna look bad at all"
I agree 100%. I think the woodtrim on the steering wheel and gated shifter looks great on the Sienna Limited. However, I think they need to redesign the woodtrim on the dash and side door. I think they need to make it look more like Lincoln and BMW.
Chrome plating has gotten a lot more expensive since it's costly to manufacturer in compliance with EPA regs (lots of carcinogens created in the process). (link). The more chrome, the less PC your ride is :-)
Honda is 3/36 powertrain also, so Toyota is better there. It sounds like the Ody is the same basic tranny, but it has the 2nd gear oil fix (and whatever other retro recall fixes were required) built in.
Toyota made whatever changes they determined rere required a while back. Just make sure to change your oil regularly.
No, I did not miss your point. My knowledge of the Sienna's prices and packaging is extensive. We bargained with 3 Toyota dealerships and had prices down to literally invoice pricing...the problem was getting an XLE with only package 3. Toyota sale folks admitted that ordering was pretty much the only way to go to get what we wanted. The Sienna and Ody are both excellent minivans. The Toyota XLE was more expensive with package 3 even at invoice compared to our deal on an Ody EX. I looked at all of the packages and really, other than adding the safety items and rear disc brakes that are standard on the Ody EX, saw nothing that we were interested in having on our van. No interest in a base Sienna...the CE is a joke and with the LE you can't even get 2 power sliding doors. Your cheap shot at Odyssey's reliability record is not a factor. You get more value from the Ody...the Sienna is much more expensive. Driving the Ody was/is a pleasure....the Sienna was truck-like. I am 6'3'' and the longer seat on the Ody was a pleasure. Enjoy whatever it is you drive...we will enjoy our Odyssey.
Good response. However, I'm sure the Ody is a pleasure to drive but the to describe the Sienna's drive as truck-like is a stretch. Also, someone with your indentical height may not be as comfortable. It depends on the measurements of an individual's legs and torso. They differ from person to person. The Ody set-up obviously works for you.
Purchased a Touring NAV/RES two weeks ago. I must say this is an amazing van.
Here are 20 reasons why we purchased the Touring NAV/RES over the Sienna LTD NAV/RES.
Just as a fyi...I have also posted a message in the Odyssey Prices Paid forum titled "Pricing - Tips and Observations" and will also be adding a message titled "The Case for the Touring" (why the 12 extra features of the Touring model are worth the money) in the Honda Odyssey 2005+ discussion.
As for the comparison of the Acura of minivans to the Lexus of minivans, here are 20 reasons why we went with Honda...
1. Rear Entertainment System (RES). Clear winner for Honda. The DVD player has a 9 in screen (vs 7 in for Toyota) along with wireless personal surround sound headphones. Furthermore, the Honda RES has a great pop out remote control. But perhaps the biggest issue is that the actual Honda DVD player is in the front of the vehicle. The Toyota player is installed in the roof and is rather bulky. Do you want small kids trying to put in a new DVD when the vehicle is in motion? And if I recall correctly, the Toyota screen when pulled down blocked some of the drivers rear view. The Honda screen when pulled down is above the line of sight from the rear view mirror.
2. Navigation System. Honda is voice activated with an integrated XM satellite radio. Very nice. Clear winner.
3. Storage. Honda offers the great lazy susan storage unit in the floor. You can also remove the lazy susan unit for larger items. The Honda also has the large console (toy/DVD box) in the second row. I recall that the Toyota center console can be moved from the front to the second row, but what does that leave in the front row? The Honda still has the valuable folding tray in the front row. If you want a folding tray in Toyota, you have to pay for it extra.
4. Body-colored front and rear sensors. The Toyota has sensors as well, but they look like black polka dots.
5. Larger conversation mirror.
6. Navigation and information display controls on the steering wheel.
7. Efficiency. Odyssey runs on regular unleaded with a VCM system. Toyota runs on premium unleaded.
8. Memory Seats. Toyota has none. I know this is a big issue for a lot of folks and it should be at this price. The memory seats on the Honda are also activated based on the keyless remote that is used. Very nice.
9. Safety. Both vehicles score high marks with side curtain airbags but the Honda has a rollover sensor. Toyota does not. Honda also has ACE body structure.
10. Innovation. For example, you can roll down the Honda windows with the keyless remote to cool it off before you enter the vehicle. If Toyota does this, kudos as well, but I am not aware of it. The Honda also allows each driver to set his or her own personal settings through the programmable multi-information display.
11. Black Leather is available on the Honda. Very durable and looks very rich.
12. Accessories. Toyota charges you for floor mats and the cargo net. Floor mats! No charge on the Honda.
13. Run Flat Tires. If the Mrs. has a flat somewhere at night, you'll be glad you had the Honda. Enough said.
14. Engine Performance. Both very nice but Honda outperforms in acceleration. 255 hp SOHC VTEC vs. 230 DOHC with VVT-i.
15. Toyota cost add-ons. Extra money for the Arctic Frost Pearl on the Sienna? Come on. Silver Pearl on the Honda is an even better color at no extra charge. Toyota also likes to add on items like a rear spoiler or a glass breakage sensor that you'll have to pay for. I really like the Toyota but I never could find exactly what I wanted (too many packages!)without the extra stuff. Toyota also likes to add on a regional marketing fee.
16. Buying experience. Never had a good sales visit to a Toyota dealer. Never had a bad sales visit to a Honda dealer.
17. Value. Honda historically has a slightly higher resale value than Toyota. Discounts on current Siennas are not doing existing Toyota owners any favors.
18. Power Adjustable pedals. Ok, the Toyota has a telescopic steering wheel. So we'll call it a draw.
19. Seat movement. Honda has raised the bar on the flat folding third row. Each side can be done easily with one hand. I also like the fact that the Honda second row seats slide forward to access the third row. The Toyota second row seats literally crash forward. Not safe for little kids.
And lastly.... and near the top of the list...
20. Comfort. Ample leg room in the second and third rows of the Honda. If you have adult passengers, they will thank you. I'm 6'1" and I cannot fit in the third row of the Sienna. The Honda third row - no problem.
Anyway, hope this helps. I'm sure someone could make a similar Sienna list because Toyota makes a great van. But these were the items that made a difference for us.
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I think the most important thing others should take from this is your last statement that these were what made a difference for you. Everyone really should make up their own mind of what makes the difference for them. The best way to do so is to really spend some time looking at, sitting in, and driving the two.
We also went with the Odyssey (although ours is a lowly EX rather than the Touring) but felt as though we would have been very happy had we purchased a Sienna. They're both very nice vehicles and, while neither are "perfect", we found the Odyssey was slightly better suited to our particular wants and needs.
We were all set to buy a Toyota Sienna LE tomorrow, but I have been reading all over this board that the Sienna only takes premium fuel. However, I have been assured by 2 different Toyota dealerships that this is not the case. They are insisting that the Sienna takes regular unleaded fuel, and telling me that all this talk about premium fuel is a ploy by Honda dealers to scare people away from the Sienna. What is going on?
As stated in the Sienna owner's manual, the Sienna REQUIRES 87 octane minimum (regular unleaded). It does state that 91 octane or higher (premium) is RECOMMENDED for increased performance.
Note the use of the terms REQUIRES and RECOMMENDED. Apparantly the Ody fans have been latching onto the language and interpreting it to mean the Sienna needs premium. No. The Sienna does not require premium. It is more than happy running on regular.
Not to sound wishy washy but both may be correct. In doing research on the Ody and Sienna, several sources indicate that the Sienna requires premium fuel but when you read all the material, you usually find something to the effect that it will run on regular grade fuel but it will not achieve the horsepower and torque advertised. So will it run ok on regular? Yes. Will it deliver all the power it is supposed to? Apparently not unless you are running premium.
My Chevy Astro with HO engine was like this. Could run ok on regular in the winter and mid grade in the summer unless towing or running high speeds for long periods of time, then the engine would knock unless it had high grade.
I suspect the Sienna is fine with regular unless you are in the mountains or have a heavy load, etc. But then again, it is still behind the Honda for power. The Ody had more power on advertised regular fuel.
I agree that they are both excellent products. Your post (and other of similar ilk) helps alot as I am trying to sort out my own thoughts on a purchase.
It's funny how some things are important to some but not to others. I have no interest in NAV or RES so the better systems available in the Odyssey make no difference to me.
While both the PAX and Toyota AWD run-flats strike me as things to avoid, at least the PAX tires have a decent (500) treadwear rating as opposed to the (pathetic) 240 rating I've seen on Siennas.
I had a '99 Odyssey for 5 years and 70,000 miles. It was not a very good vehicle due to many recalls and (two) transmission failures. That said, Honda did stand behind the product (and our other Hondas have been excellent). From what I've heard about Toyota, I have some concerns about their dealer service.
It continues to bother me that both makes play games with accessories. While Siennas come with cross bars on the roof rack, floor mats are extra as is protection for the rear glass - what Toyota calls a (pricey) "spoiler." Honda gives you that (and mats) but cross bars are extra cost.
While I have yet to buy a Toyota new, it has not been for lack of trying - their dealers are, in the main, pushy and unprofessional, at least in my experience. Honda personnel seem more low key, straightforward, and professional. Actually, bepete, you summed it up better - never had a good sales visit to a Toyota store and never had a bad one to a Honda dealer.
I like the fact that the Sienna weighs somewhat less. The styling (in and out) seems classier. The Odyssey has better interior storage but I don't care much for the dash. I like the Honda colors (in and out) better and their model line-up certainly makes things simpler.
Many have spoken about items that should be included given the price of these units. Here's my pet peeve - no night lighting for the power window and lock switches in the Sienna. Don't know about the Honda because I haven't driven one at night but doubt they have lighting either.
Comments
- Quest has auto-dim mirror. Neat
Just FYI, the Sienna has the MPG counter from the LE model (with any package) and up, and the auto-dim mirror in the Limited model (interior AND exterior mirror).
I think the Ody also have the MPG counter on the Touring.
2 Things nobody mentioned, the Sienna 'Limited' and Odyssey 'Touring'.. Where are these words coming from? Yeah, you guessed: Copied that from Chrysler, too. Chrysler T&C have both, Touring & Limited...:-) And Chrysler also have both, the MPG counter (trip computer) and inside/outside auto dim mirror. Chrysler was actually the first to introduce this feature in a van. But they have small mirrors. The Quest's is H-U-G-E! and so is Siennas. It helps for a good view.
All I want to know is, where in the hell are you buying $2 per can Coke?
Most people don't realize it, but an auto-dimming mirror with electronic compass and outside temperature display can be added to almost ANY vehicle. Such after-market mirrors cost about $200.
I drove an 04 Sienna LTD and indeed did notice the transmission shift not being clean or smooth. Do you know for a fact that with the 05 the shift is more clean and smooth or was that just your general opinion after driving it. I know I need to get out and drive an 05 to see for myself but I wanted to check with you first if that is something that Toyota has actually acknowledged and whether they are touting this improvment in the 05 model.
Thanks,
Dex
Oops. That's what happened when you press for time and trying to make your point accross. I meant to say a gallon of coke is more expensive than a gallon of gas. Then again, if you want to buy a can of coke during US Open, you'll be surprise how much you have to pay for it.
It's actually about $6,700 difference; I was comparing both vans using the wrong trim. Quest SE with all the standard equipment comes up to $28,729. Sienna with comparable trim comes up to $35,398. That is a $6,669 difference. Wait, then there is savings in gas (Sienna uses Premium gas only). Let's roughly estimate it about $250 a year - the total for 5 years come up to $1,250. Then there is the insurance saving of roughly $500. The total difference could potentially come up to $8,419. If let's say Quest is being sold 5 years from now for $8,000. If you add 15% of resalve value, Sienna would be sold for $9,200. You still save $7,210 after 5 years.
Of course, you expect 15% better resale value on the Sienna. Unless you are an expert in this area, you can predict that. Sienna has to have a better resale value of almost 100% to make the difference.
Look, my whole point of the discussion was yes Sienna and Odyssey could be better of all cars. Although Quest may be inferior to both two, it is backed by a reputational brand (with 5 year warranty). For the amount that you have to pay to get the extras (like side airbag and leather trim in Sienna), you can use the savings and put it in your retirement savings. Instead of saving $8,000, you could potentially save and additional 20% in return (depending who is the President and market condition). Everyone has choices of the vehicles that they can buy; however, everyone is limited by the ability to pay for them. I could have bought a Porsche 911; but I could only buy a Nissan 350Z. Note: Nissan 350Z beat Porsche in Cars and Driver magazine.
no one will able to know resale value be after 5 yrs!
Sounds like you have spent a lot of time looking at both vans. On point/question, you mention that the Honda’s Memory seat does not remember side mirrors and power pedals positions. I agree that is nearly unacceptable! Our 1998 T&C LXI remembers seat and mirrors! That being said, from my research the Toyota does not even offer memory functionality on any of their vans. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Flash
A friend of mine bought a Sienna XLE 3 months back.
Both are in silver. You won't believe how similar they look!!!
Our trained eyes can easily spot the difference but for a 'regular' person (meaning - spends less time on this forum and more time living their lives
All this talk about 'one being ugly when compared to the other' is wrong!!!
I saw them next to each other. Same width/height/length! Screw the spec! Both look awesome!!!
My Odyssey drives perfect... no wind noise... feels connect to the rear... and feels completely under the drivers control!
My advice: If you are spending 35k+ on a mini-van you should add the navigation! Factory installed navigation is definitely better than something you would install afterwards. Don't cut corners here.
This option is ONLY for interior mirror, but the Sienna, Quest and Town & Country offers the drivers side exterior too, which is more important to me, since all cars still offer a manual day/night mode on the inside mirror if a car follows you with high beams, but with the exterior mirror you can't help yourself (unless you have power mirrors and you turn it down.. way too down).
Try Disneyland. Oops, they don't sell 12 oz cans but a 20 oz bottle was $2.50.
Question: How long until gasoline is over $3.00 per gallon? (It was just over $1.30 a gallon 4 years ago). Where is Ronald Reagan when we need him?
Sienna.
In the southeast, most dealers have what is known as Toyoguard which is an utter waste of money and retails at around $699. I bought my 04 Sienna FWD LTD from the internet person at Cherokee County Toyota for a few hundred under invoice + doc + tt. It was painless and a pleasure to deal with them. The great thing about them is that none of their vans have this Toyoguard.
If I was willing to drive about 3 /1/2 hours south of Atlanta to Albany, the best deal all round was at Fairway Toyota via their internet dept. They only have 05 Siennas and will sell them very close to invoice. They were very responsive via e-mail and I would have bought from them if I went the 05 route. They do have some of their Siennas without Toyoguard which is great. Definitely the best deal in GA for an 05.
Ody
Metro Atlanta is not great and the last time I checked was over a month ago and at that time (the prices may be lower now), the best 3 dealers were Thompson Honda, Hennessey Honda (via CostCo) and Carl Gregory Honda in Columbus all being around $500-600 or so below MSRP and all great and responsive via the internet. However, if one is prepared to travel south a little over 4 hours from Atlanta to Brunswick (the dealer there is Brunswick Honda), they will sell the 05 Ody at around $1800-1900 below MSRP. The internet person was great and I would most definitely have bought my Ody from them if I landed up going for an Ody. He gave the facts as they were as objectively as any dealer I have ever dealt with. He also offered to drive the Ody to me in Atlanta. If you are buying in GA or north FL, definitely check them out. I would have flown there on Delta from Atlanta for a little over $100 and then driven the car back. They have the best deals for an Ody in GA.
You guys going to hate me for keep posting Nissan Quest here. Anyway, Quest SE has 2 settings memory seat including power pedal position. Not the mirror. Still cheaper than Sienna and Ody.
With that said, the Sienna is much more luxurious inside. Both are great and you cannot go wrong. Another option I explored on the Sienna was to get the EXL with option #6 (if you are getting an 05 EXL) or option #14 (if you are getting an 04 EXL). This will give you just about everything the LTD has except for laser cruise, parking sensors and one or two other little things but is a much better value than the LTD. I decided for an 04 LTD as I could get it at just over 1k less than the 05 even though I will pay a price down the road in resale value. The Toyota dealers are really giving the Sienna away. This will put a lot of pressure on the Ody which will almost certainly start to come down in price quickly. btw, check out the CostCo auto finance program, it rocks. I will put a posting in the Sienna and also the Ody Price Paid forum.
The two capitan chairs are slightly narrower than on a 7 seater. They also do not have arm rests.
Importantly though I did learn the middle seat has a tether anchor on it like the sides, but I am not sure about latch. BTW, the Honda Ody with the 8th seat does not have an anchor in the middle position.
The middle seat does come out, but I don't think it folds down to make a table.
Because you can slide the middle seat foward of the two sides, should be pretty easy to get three car seats in there. At least I hope it is because this is the arrangement we want. We test drove a 7 pass with two car seats and the models we have fit easily on the chairs with room to spare, so I am confident we could shave a few inches and still be okay. May need to look for a narrower model for the middle just for ease of use.
We are in the same Toyota Region (Chicago) even though we are in Southern Indiana. The Toyota website shows the 8 seater only with package #6 here, however if you look in other regions by zip code it is made with #2 which is cheaper if you don't want some of the added safety stuff.
There are folks that post on the prices paid forum that 8 seaters...maybe we can get them to measure each of the seat cushions?
I almost dropped the hammer on ordering a van, but the dealer wouldn't give me what I wanted on my trade ($500 over KBB trade in). Back to the drawing board.
Good Luck
I would agree that the chrome grilled could have been better.
Not all "chromes" are created equal:-)
First, the grille could have been metal (like Hyundai and Kia) instead of plastic (Honda/Toyota).
Second, they should have put that Honda symbol above the grille--like Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, and Lincoln.
Third, they should have put more chrome on the grille.
I would buy if it were metal chrome. But since it's cheap plastic, I wouldn't:-)
I agree 100%. I think the woodtrim on the steering wheel and gated shifter looks great on the Sienna Limited.
However, I think they need to redesign the woodtrim on the dash and side door. I think they need to make it look more like Lincoln and BMW.
Yeah, they look exactly like minivans:-) Just kidding.
Try comparing the Ody and Sienna to the Mazda MPV.
They look just alike!
I'm still hoping somebody like---oh, I don't know-----BMW?---will come out with a big 8 seater wagon that will look more like their X5 SUV.
Like Steve and so many people have said, "It's a minivan."
I guess we just can't get too picky with how they look.
If we want a more beautiful looking vehicle, we would have to "settle" for a sports car, luxury sedan, SUV, or sportwagon from BMW, Mercedes, etc.
Ch1313, a little off-topic drift is normal and tolerated, but we're comparing the Sienna and Odyssey in here. There is a Nissan Quest vs Toyota Sienna and a Nissan Quest vs Honda Odyssey discussion you should check out.
Steve, Host
Toyota's is 6 yrs but how about Honda? Is it just part of the B2B 3yr/36k mi warranty?
Has Toyota redesigned their V6 to prevent sludge build up? Is the Odyssey tranny different from those found on the Acura TL which have had problems.
Sorry if these questions have been answered in past. I just started researching these minivans.
What are you drinking? The MPV looks very different from Ody or Sienna, especially in profile or from the back.
Toyota made whatever changes they determined rere required a while back. Just make sure to change your oil regularly.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Well, I'm drinking water, orange juice, Pepsi, and Sprite through the day.
I think the Ody looks very much like the Mazda.
I think most minivans look alike.
You are quite welcome to disagree.
Here are 20 reasons why we purchased the Touring NAV/RES over the Sienna LTD NAV/RES.
Just as a fyi...I have also posted a message in the Odyssey Prices Paid forum titled "Pricing - Tips and Observations" and will also be adding a message titled "The Case for the Touring" (why the 12 extra features of the Touring model are worth the money) in the Honda Odyssey 2005+ discussion.
As for the comparison of the Acura of minivans to the Lexus of minivans, here are 20 reasons why we went with Honda...
1. Rear Entertainment System (RES). Clear winner for Honda. The DVD player has a 9 in screen (vs 7 in for Toyota) along with wireless personal surround sound headphones. Furthermore, the Honda RES has a great pop out remote control. But perhaps the biggest issue is that the actual Honda DVD player is in the front of the vehicle. The Toyota player is installed in the roof and is rather bulky. Do you want small kids trying to put in a new DVD when the vehicle is in motion? And if I recall correctly, the Toyota screen when pulled down blocked some of the drivers rear view. The Honda screen when pulled down is above the line of sight from the rear view mirror.
2. Navigation System. Honda is voice activated with an integrated XM satellite radio. Very nice. Clear winner.
3. Storage. Honda offers the great lazy susan storage unit in the floor. You can also remove the lazy susan unit for larger items. The Honda also has the large console (toy/DVD box) in the second row. I recall that the Toyota center console can be moved from the front to the second row, but what does that leave in the front row? The Honda still has the valuable folding tray in the front row. If you want a folding tray in Toyota, you have to pay for it extra.
4. Body-colored front and rear sensors. The Toyota has sensors as well, but they look like black polka dots.
5. Larger conversation mirror.
6. Navigation and information display controls on the steering wheel.
7. Efficiency. Odyssey runs on regular unleaded with a VCM system. Toyota runs on premium unleaded.
8. Memory Seats. Toyota has none. I know this is a big issue for a lot of folks and it should be at this price. The memory seats on the Honda are also activated based on the keyless remote that is used. Very nice.
9. Safety. Both vehicles score high marks with side curtain airbags but the Honda has a rollover sensor. Toyota does not. Honda also has ACE body structure.
10. Innovation. For example, you can roll down the Honda windows with the keyless remote to cool it off before you enter the vehicle. If Toyota does this, kudos as well, but I am not aware of it. The Honda also allows each driver to set his or her own personal settings through the programmable multi-information display.
11. Black Leather is available on the Honda. Very durable and looks very rich.
12. Accessories. Toyota charges you for floor mats and the cargo net. Floor mats! No charge on the Honda.
13. Run Flat Tires. If the Mrs. has a flat somewhere at night, you'll be glad you had the Honda. Enough said.
14. Engine Performance. Both very nice but Honda outperforms in acceleration. 255 hp SOHC VTEC vs. 230 DOHC with VVT-i.
15. Toyota cost add-ons. Extra money for the Arctic Frost Pearl on the Sienna? Come on. Silver Pearl on the Honda is an even better color at no extra charge. Toyota also likes to add on items like a rear spoiler or a glass breakage sensor that you'll have to pay for. I really like the Toyota but I never could find exactly what I wanted (too many packages!)without the extra stuff. Toyota also likes to add on a regional marketing fee.
16. Buying experience. Never had a good sales visit to a Toyota dealer. Never had a bad sales visit to a Honda dealer.
17. Value. Honda historically has a slightly higher resale value than Toyota. Discounts on current Siennas are not doing existing Toyota owners any favors.
18. Power Adjustable pedals. Ok, the Toyota has a telescopic steering wheel. So we'll call it a draw.
19. Seat movement. Honda has raised the bar on the flat folding third row. Each side can be done easily with one hand. I also like the fact that the Honda second row seats slide forward to access the third row. The Toyota second row seats literally crash forward. Not safe for little kids.
And lastly.... and near the top of the list...
20. Comfort. Ample leg room in the second and third rows of the Honda. If you have adult passengers, they will thank you. I'm 6'1" and I cannot fit in the third row of the Sienna. The Honda third row - no problem.
Anyway, hope this helps. I'm sure someone could make a similar Sienna list because Toyota makes a great van. But these were the items that made a difference for us.
Best of luck!
kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I think the most important thing others should take from this is your last statement that these were what made a difference for you. Everyone really should make up their own mind of what makes the difference for them. The best way to do so is to really spend some time looking at, sitting in, and driving the two.
We also went with the Odyssey (although ours is a lowly EX rather than the Touring) but felt as though we would have been very happy had we purchased a Sienna. They're both very nice vehicles and, while neither are "perfect", we found the Odyssey was slightly better suited to our particular wants and needs.
The Sienna requires regular unleaded gas:
link
Steve, Host
Note the use of the terms REQUIRES and RECOMMENDED. Apparantly the Ody fans have been latching onto the language and interpreting it to mean the Sienna needs premium. No. The Sienna does not require premium. It is more than happy running on regular.
My Chevy Astro with HO engine was like this. Could run ok on regular in the winter and mid grade in the summer unless towing or running high speeds for long periods of time, then the engine would knock unless it had high grade.
I suspect the Sienna is fine with regular unless you are in the mountains or have a heavy load, etc. But then again, it is still behind the Honda for power. The Ody had more power on advertised regular fuel.
It's funny how some things are important to some but not to others. I have no interest in NAV or RES so the better systems available in the Odyssey make no difference to me.
While both the PAX and Toyota AWD run-flats strike me as things to avoid, at least the PAX tires have a decent (500) treadwear rating as opposed to the (pathetic) 240 rating I've seen on Siennas.
I had a '99 Odyssey for 5 years and 70,000 miles. It was not a very good vehicle due to many recalls and (two) transmission failures. That said, Honda did stand behind the product (and our other Hondas have been excellent). From what I've heard about Toyota, I have some concerns about their dealer service.
It continues to bother me that both makes play games with accessories. While Siennas come with cross bars on the roof rack, floor mats are extra as is protection for the rear glass - what Toyota calls a (pricey) "spoiler." Honda gives you that (and mats) but cross bars are extra cost.
While I have yet to buy a Toyota new, it has not been for lack of trying - their dealers are, in the main, pushy and unprofessional, at least in my experience. Honda personnel seem more low key, straightforward, and professional. Actually, bepete, you summed it up better - never had a good sales visit to a Toyota store and never had a bad one to a Honda dealer.
I like the fact that the Sienna weighs somewhat less. The styling (in and out) seems classier. The Odyssey has better interior storage but I don't care much for the dash. I like the Honda colors (in and out) better and their model line-up certainly makes things simpler.
Many have spoken about items that should be included given the price of these units. Here's my pet peeve - no night lighting for the power window and lock switches in the Sienna. Don't know about the Honda because I haven't driven one at night but doubt they have lighting either.
Decisions, decisions...