BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

72chevelle

IS hands down. If your spending north of 35K, you expect luxury and performance, which the BMW sorely lacks in the luxury category. IS delivers in both segments, making it a true entry level luxury car. Not to mention the BMW's history of reliability issues and high maintenance costs.

The BMW 3 series is hot because of the perceived status it brings - I say perceived because us that own a true luxury-performance car knows what that means. And that does not include the 3 series.

mikegiller

You sure aced the "dodge-the-bullet" test.

....

"Last IQ test was 135; I refer it to as smart enough..."

Sorry, I couldn't resist, given the context!

That sentence had as much flow as an e90 interior!



Do svidanya!

dewey

Not only do I admire Japanese cars but I also admire the Japanese for their very good taste and knowledge of luxury cars.

I mean what reasonable person wants to spend a premium price on a Toyota. Certainly not the Japanese!

Lexus is having sand kicked in their faces by BMW, MB and Audi.

And I am willing to wager that most in Japan would not even consider the Lexus IS as a worthy competitor to the Benchmark car from Bavaria.

For further details about Lexus humiliation in Japan please read the following:

In Japan Lexus Sales Sucks

mikegiller

WRONG MODELS? But with a little help from Lexus, attitudes are changing. BMW estimates that the number of visitors to its showrooms is up 20% since the rival's launch, and as many Japanese consider foreign brands for the first time. Customers realize that if you spend $45,000 or more, "you can afford an imported car," Suzuki says.

Toyota's choice of models may also shed some light on the sticky start by Lexus. Analysts point out that just two Lexus models were launched in Japan last August -- the GS sedan and SC convertible -- with the IS sedan added a month later. CSFB's Endo says all three models are too sporty to be big sellers in Japan's luxury sector. A truer evaluation of the Lexus will be possible after the top-of-the-line LS sedan goes on sale later this year.

Three additional models, including two SUVs, are expected in 2007. "After seeing how the LS does, we'll have a better picture," Endo says.

Source: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/feb2006/bw20060215_597701.htm

It appears some of us are living in an idealist society (note the italicized 'appear'); far off from reality.

An unbiased mind would be able to understand the whole matter being discussed in the article.

I suppose this is the end of Lexus, right dewey?

dewey

It appears some of us are living in an idealist society (note the italicized 'appear'); far off from reality.

A call from REALITY

Mike Giller, and what idealistic society are you currently inhabiting? Is it called LaLaLexusland?

That ideal society where all BMW 3 series drivers are kids whose dads do not want to spend the extra bucks on a bigger BMW or adult-kids just pretending to be prestigious? A land where all Lexus owners are unpretentious, knowledgeable and are able to leap tall buildings in a single bound :P

ivan_99

heh...

I used a spell/grammar checker as well.

Darn that vocabulary section…now the visual apprehension…way up there…or is it their :confuse:

kdshapiro

"You have to be kidding me if you think the sole reason somebody buys an entry level luxury sedan is because of its handling. It could, for maybe a second, have something to do with BMW's history. Only the magazines (and some select few enthusiasts) care that it is the best handler."

I will wager that you do not know why the "general somebody" that you mention buys any car. You cannot generalize on the reasons why people buy one vehicle over another. They are very personal reasons and in the end after the sale is done, only the person who you see tooling down street in their new vehicle knows why they bought it. You may understand why the people on this board might *prefer* one car over another. I also believe you are far off-base if you don't think people understand what makes a BMW unique to itself in the same way people understand what makes a Lexus unique unto itself.

habitat1

"I wonder what cars they would buy if they had all the money in the world. I also wonder: How many people in the world dream of getting themselves a BMW without once ever driving it; and what does that say?"

I'm a little short of "all the money in the world", but as someone who is (very) fortunate to have a 997S Cab as a fun car, I certainly wouldn't kick a 330i out of my garage. And if I could get by with the dimunitive back seat of the IS, I would probably opt for an M3 instead.

Within my peer group, I think Lexus does well against Mercedes (and Audi) for those that value luxury first and driving dynamics second. But for those that put driving dynamics at or above luxury in priority, each BMW model still has an edge (or big lead) on Lexus. And driving dynamics is not 0-60. The AMG E55 will give my 911S a serious run for the money in that department, but I'd rather have a 530i 6-speed as my daily driver.

As to your point about buying cars without ever test driving them, that is probably a character flaw that afflicts all brands. A golfing buddy of mine bought the GS400 when it was first introduced many years ago without so much as a test drive. Sport package with 17" wheels and tires to boot. After only 7,000 miles, the tires were shot. Turned out that the suspension was simply not up to the task and the excessive body roll ate up the soft compound sports tires. He received a new set of non-sport tires courtesy of Lexus, and the next year traded his GS400 for a 5 series. Which he did test drive in advance.

Neither Lexus, nor BMW (nor Acura or Porsche for that matter) are without their share of purchasers looking for prestige and lacking buyer sophistication. But I think if you look closely at Lexus product offerings, they all stop a step or two short of truly engineering a drivers car. The lack of a 6-speed manual in the IS350 is the most glaring example and why I haven't even bothered to drive the car yet. Maybe if the weather is nice tomorrow, I'll drop the top and head over to the Lexus dealer just to satisfy my curiosity.

fedlawman

"Neither Lexus, nor BMW (nor Acura or Porsche for that matter) are without their share of purchasers looking for prestige and lacking buyer sophistication. But I think if you look closely at Lexus product offerings, they all stop a step or two short of truly engineering a drivers car."

That pretty much sums it up!

texasmerq

This is the same argument going on as last time I was here. The reality is people should just buy what they like and that's what most people do.

For me if I had to choose between the two I would have to go with the BMW 330i simply because driving it feels better all around. The IS350 out accelerates it and everything in the class currently, no one is denying that or can deny that. When you look at the sum of all parts though from a purely perormance standpoint the BMW outclasses it and everything else and that's why it is still considered the "standard" by most publications and it not just some conspiracy that everyone has in favor of the BMW.

I personally prefer the design of the BMW inside and out to the Lexus although the IS350 overall has a better technology package when you add the Mark Levinson Audio system and Navigation but for me that's the only clear place where the Lexus outclasses the 3 series outside of straightline acceleration. The Lexus exterior has a bland and non-offensive style IMO and the interior IMO is better suited to the LS with wood trim although aluminum is availible as well. I don't like the seats either because they aren't bolstered enough to me although with VDIM I guess you could say they are adequate. I'm not really pro-BMW or anti-Lexus I'm just going by what I felt when I test drove them both last fall. For the record all the cars had automatics equipped as well (I also drove the G35 Coupe and Acura TSX to compare with the IS250 and it's documented here as well.)

Concerning people who buying luxury marques I would say most people don't buy for badge alone. I'm sure that that is a part of the equation or the only equation for a percentage of people, but most are buying into apparent superior service, build quality, components, performance, and options to name a few. To assume someone is a yuppy because they drive a BMW is wrong just like it's wrong to think someone drives a Lexus because they are too self conscious to drive a fully loaded Toyota.

As for the person who said they had a hard time getting the 3 series to accelerate and pass in traffic I find that very hard to believe since I commonly see Civics, Cobalts, large pickups, SUVs, and pretty much any other passenger vehicle pass along the highways everyday at normal speeds. I hardly think a 215+ hp sedan, known for it's sporting character, will have much more trouble than these vehicles. If you like the IS350 better then great. It is a great car but there's no need to exaggerate to make your buying decision seem exponentially better.

As for me if Lexus tightens up the steering, offers a true 2+2 (which is what the IS350 should have been,)improves the shifting speed of their auto or better yet add a DSG/SMG option (plus a true manual for the purists,) cut the price by at least 2K, offere individual options and not just those stupid mega option packages, let me hear more engine noise under throttle and tighten up the body roll (a firm ride is a great thing) then I will reconsider them. As for now though I'm looking forward most to the BMW 335, Z4 Coupe, and the next generation G35 (or G37 maybe.)

brightness04

You are acting quite hysterical about a non-event.

Really convincing argument from you now. Please report yourself to the censor.

And my seven year old BMW e46 is mechanicallly doing great

Except the engine in the E90's are derived from the S54 used in the M3's, not your ancient E46 engine.

And yes Lexus ES has transmission issues are a BIG TURN OFF for quite a few buyers. That to me sounds like an issue.

SMG is a TURN OFF for quite a few buyers, too. Still not explaining how that relates to reliability like you were implying in post #425

brightness04

ANd why pay the price premium of a 330 over a 325. Because that is the price you pay to have a superior car in terms of features and performance. Is that not obvious?

Apparently not obvious to the poster who wrote "who cares about the accelearation?" in post#425. What other performance superiority is there in favor of 330 over 325, besides accelearation? If indeed nobody cares about the accelearation as you so emphaticly pointed out in post #425, 330 buyers must be paying the extra for the electronics and leather . . . pretty simple logic indeed.

kdshapiro

"not your ancient E46 engine"

The same ancient engine that has won multiple awards year after year?

dewey

Really convincing argument from you now

Sort of like the non-event of having Lexus engine problems as some fellow forum members mentioned here, dont you think?

The E90 engine will definitely be just as reliable if not more reliable than the ancient e46 engine. History is on BMWs side with the mere exception of that non-event you mentioned.

dewey

Apparently not obvious to the poster who wrote "who cares about the accelearation?"

So what was my point?

My point was that the BMW 3 series did not become a benchmark vehicle because of its acceleration. Acceleration was hardly ever the strong point of owning a BMW 3 series.

" buyers must be paying the extra for the electronics and leather . . . pretty simple logic indeed. "

Let me help you in your confusion. People buy a 330 over a 325 mainly for its improvements in performance.

People pay more for leather, electronics and better acceleration for most cars. But just because a person pays more for leather does not mean that leather is what defines the car. Likewise with "0 to 60" readings. And I repeat the 3 series is not mainly defined by its "0 to 60" readings. Its main strength is being the best handling sport sedan in the market(historically and currently). And that is what distinguishes the 3 series from its competitors.

brightness04

Typical general-purpose rag factual errors (magazines article writers are typically third rate jack of all trades, expert at none). BusinessWeek was/is one of my favorites for picking stocks to short sell: whatever they praise, short it a few weeks after the article is published. The list included Lucent, Enron, HP, TollBrothers etc.. Classic contrarian indicator.

Learn to read between the lines and analyse the numbers yourself. The three German makers combined only sold 100k cars in Japan in 2005; that's less than 35k each. Lexus with only three models sold 10k in 4 months! That's also 30k units annnual run rate! Two out of the three (GS and SC) models, the two that have been on the Japanese market longest, don't even account for 3% of Lexus US sales combined. IS only translates to about 15% of total Lexus sales in US, and it was on the Japanese market for only a little over three months. If models corresponding to 18% of Lexus entire line up sales translates to 30-40k units annual run rate, the Germans are doomed in Japan when RX (Toyota Harrier) and ES are offered in Japan (combined for about 70-80% of Lexus sales in the US). Also, the top of the line luxury Toyota's, like the Century (really a Rolls-Royce competitor), are not even being offered as a Lexus anywhere in the world.

brightness04

Let me help you in your confusion. People buy a 330 over a 325 mainly for its improvements in performance.

What other performance advantage does 330 offer over 325, besides accelearation?

dewey

Businessweek a rag :confuse: LOL!!!

Lexus themselves are disappointed with their dismal results, but IBrightness you can alway see the bright things in life(except maybe the BMW M3)

brightness04

The same ancient engine that has won multiple awards year after year?

So did the Nissan/Infiniti 3.5 liter that some BMW fans are alleging prevalent engine failures. Awards from the past don't mean squat . . . especially since it's not even related to the current engine in E90 whereas the unreliable S54 is.

brightness04

Businessweek a rag LOL!!!

Actually yes, it's known as a contrarian indicator. If you do not believe me, do the numbers yourself. Go check the cover stories from 2000 . . . dot com excitement at the beginning of the year, Enron praise later in the year . . . Carly Fiorina gracing the pages numerous times . . . etc.

The numbers don't lie, all the fluff commentaries and spins in those magazines should be taken with a huge crystal of salt.

kdshapiro

Where did Nissan/Infiniti come into the conversation? Actually the new V10 in the M5 won engine of the year. When was the last Lexus engine that made any list?

brightness04

What does V10 in M5 have anything to do with this? Are you saying the V10 in M5 is complete crap too?

You said the E46 regular 3 engine won awards therefore implying that it must have been a stellar engine beyond reproach. I countered that the Nissan/Infiniti 3.5 won many awards too (probably more than the engine in regular E46) but still some BMW fans are alleging prevalent engine failures . . . proving that winning awards is no guarantee of reliability (unless the BMW fans were just making it all up about the Nissan/Infiniti engine). BTW, I would not hold the V10 in M5 up as some kind of champion of reliaiblity or even useability. Smooth idling is a basic requirement for any daily driver.

dewey

It depends on how you define performance?

Some people define it merely as acceleration. Some people define it as power to weight ratio.

There is probably another valid definition, but based on both definitions above the 330 is superior to the 325.

pat

Let's just get back to comparing specifically the 3-Series to the IS and leave the personal comments ... as well as all things including the kitchen sink ... outside.

brightness04

It depends on how you define performance?

Some people define it merely as acceleration. Some people define it as power to weight ratio.

Considering that we already know 330i and 325i weigh about the same, what does power-to-weight ratio matter if we already know the accelearation? Me thinks you are grappling for straws ;-) I'm willing to let the subject rest if you are.

pat

We're off on way too many tangents. Go debate the merits and demerits of the 325i and 330i in the 3-Series discussion, please.

Are we going to continue to compare the subject vehicles here?

dave330i

"BMW's history of reliability issues and high maintenance costs."

Yeah... that 4 year free maintenance sure is expensive. :P

FYI, all luxury cars are expensive to maintain.

ivan_99

I think this latest stint of lively debate started with the suggestion that the Edmunds review was not accurate in adding the automatic transmission to the 3 series.

I totally agree with this assertion as it seems the review was focused on the Lexus audience; or more accurately not the BMW enthusiast crowd found on these forums.

It is still noteworthy to mention that the 330i WAS ranked 1st place. With the 330i being slower and with a slush box it still is regarded as “…the sports sedan of choice for the true driving enthusiasts”.

I believe the 330i has won the majority of direct comparisons. This really does not mean much to me as my decisions are rarely based on others reviews…look at the Oscars.

I like acceleration as much as the next guy…maybe more…but if it’s not within an overall balanced package then it’s just a drag racer to me. As Seinfeld would say “not that there is anything wrong with that”.

I don’t think I was the only one to get goosebumps when the Ferrari did donuts at the opening ceremonies…BMW’s do that to me as well.

fedlawman

There are many reasons to consider the 330i over the 325i besides acceleration.

The 325i is a fine sport sedan in it's own right, and with an invoice price under $30,000 it is a tremendous value.

The decision to step up to the 330i is basically a $5,000 choice. I agree that 40 hp alone is not worth the premium, but for that additional $5,500, the buyer also gets larger brakes, larger wheels/tires, adaptive xenon headlights, power seats with driver memory, and the logic 7 stereo.

Add the headlights, power seats, and stereo to a 325i, and it'll cost an extra $2700. So, the 40 hp, bigger brakes, and bigger wheels/tires of the 330i are worth $2800.

For someone looking for bang-for-the-buck in this segment, the 325i with no options is the way to go. If you want the bells and whistles with your 3-series (and most buyers in this segment do), the 330i, with it's more robust performance, is a logical choice.

pat

As I said, please go to the 3-Series discussion for that debate. It is not on topic here. Thanks.

sigt1

330=OVERPRICED GARBAGE???

LEXUS IS=A CAR THAT WILL LAST YOU???

mikegiller

I would wager you are right; only a person who buys a BMW knows why they bought it.

When it is their money, everybody has the right to choose which car they want for whatever reason. All I'm saying is that it's a little tiring hearing from the BMW hardcores that the only reason why people by BMWs is because of the handling, and for that reason it is the #1 seller in the category. I think it may have something to do with it, but it is not the only reason.

dewey said,"So why do people buy the BMW 325i?

Because it is the best handling car in its price range."

Something strikes me as "plain and simple lie" about that statement.

Lexus does not have the same reputation as BMW has right now in the "history" department, I am sure you all agree, so could that be why, in a segment where history and prestige is taken into consideration Lexus' IS 350 cannot become an instant people's champ?

It will take work, and I can assure you that handling isn't the only reason why a car sells. The IS 350 has great handling and you could easily break the law in style in that car; people who say it doesn't handle well are simply biased liars. For me the IS 350 has the full package, and for others, it doesn't because they prefer a different ratio of luxury/style/speed/handling/technology/'prestige of the badge'. In my opinion, the BMW is lacking in the luxury/style/speed/technology, things that are vital in this market segment. Plain and simple, that is my opinon, and I am sure others agree.

Now, since I cannot go into the brains of a BMW buyer, just like they cannot go into my brain and tell the whole world why I will buy a Lexus IS 350 (for all you know it is because I like the "L" on the grille of the car), I will assume that the reason they bought their e90 is because of a combination of luxury/style/speed/handling/technology/'prestige of the badge', with an emphasis on maybe a few factors. I cannot possibly accept that it is only one factor, and that the majority of luxury sedan buyers will simply ignore the fact that their purchase was a BMW.

mikegiller

I agree with everything you have said, except for this!!!

"... improves the shifting speed of their auto... "

The Lexus 6-speed is said to be the fastest shifting automatic ever made. It in fact, outshifts manuals, not SMGs, but manuals. I don't think they need to redesign it at all...

mikegiller

"Attention News/Automotive Editors:

Lexus IS 350 luxury sport sedan wins Automobile Journalists Association of Canada Best New Technology award for innovative fuel injection system
TORONTO, Feb. 15 /CNW/ - Lexus today received the 2006 Best New
Technology award from the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC)
for an innovative fuel injection system introduced on the 2006 Lexus IS 350
luxury sport sedan... "

Source: link title

"This year's winners, as well as the vehicles tested, include:

Audi AG: 2L FSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
Audi AG: 4.2L DOHC V-8 (Audi S4)
BMW AG: 3L DOHC I-6 (330i)
DaimlerChrysler AG: 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Dodge Charger R/T)
Ford Motor Co.: 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT)
General Motors Corp.: 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cobalt SS)
General Motors Corp.: 2.8L turbocharged DOHC V-6 (Saab 9-3 Aero)
Mazda Motor Corp.: 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed 6)
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35 6MT)
Toyota Motor Corp.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)"

Source: link title

mikegiller

And it sounds like this (kdshapiro): So what!?

dhamilton

seen anything on Lexus being the fastest shifting automatic. Especially quicker than Audi's DSG. Could you give links?

kdshapiro

Okay...you got it. So what?

kdshapiro

"Something strikes me as "plain and simple lie" about that statement."

But that's the point, one doesn't know if it's true or not either in a general sense or a specific sense. Just like one doesn't know if Lexus buyers just buy Lexus for the "L" on the hood.

ivan_99

Maybe Audi’s DSG isn’t considered an automatic since it really isn’t one. But I believe you are correct that the DSG is the quickest.

mikegiller

Oh yes, I agree, certainly.

I thought I made it clear to dhamilton.

Again,"The Lexus 6-speed is said to be the fastest shifting automatic ever made. It in fact, outshifts manuals, not SMGs, but manuals."

texasmerq

The largest problem I see with the 6-speed auto is this. When it's left in drive to [non-permissible content removed] on it's own then it may be one of the fastest shifting AT in it's class. When in sequential mode to be nice about it- IT SUCKS. Sometimes it shifts and sometimes it doesn't. If you are going to give people shift paddles and a gear shifting stick you should at least make sure they work right when you try to use them. Sometimes the actual shift doesn't occur for a few seconds after the shift was made and that IMO is unacceptable. That's why I mentioned they needed to fix their automatic. If you don't believe me then go out and try it yourself during spirited driving.

I will agree that most automatics nowadays will shift faster than most people can or even will in normal driving with the exception of professional drivers. I guess the thing that people who just don't get why people want manuals get is that it isn't as much about faster 0-60 times as it is total control over everything that the car does. That's the same reason why a lot of enthusiasts complain so loudly about overintrusive traction control systems, even if they could possibly get people out of a bad situation in inclement weather. A lot of it again is just common sense though or lack thereof that many drivers exhibit. I personally can drive a manual transmission and I get why some people want them. For me it's not the most practical option for a daily driver in a major city, but if I ran into a large sum of money for a weekend only car than yes I would probably get the 6-speed MT. As it stands I feel a SMG/DSG isabout as close as you can get to having the best of both worlds and in a perfect world they would replace all torque converter automatics.

mikegiller

Exactly.

I just get the feeling that the sentiment around here is,"Oh yea, well this is better than that and my car's better than yours and that's the end of it and you should agree too!", when in all reality, there is no better choice. If your car makes you happy then that is what matters!

I think these discussions can go on forever, and they probably will, no matter how logical a post may sound, or probably is. We are all human and all get involved in the heat of the moment because we don't want to be offended, or left unnoticed, when somebody knocks your decision without them knowing you are a fan of brand X.

I guess one of my gripes is people saying the IS 350 isn't a true sport sedan, or a "good one" on the basis that Car and Driver or some other magazine says that the 330i is soo much better than it when in the same breath, those magazines have said that the IS 350 is one of the most, if not, the most capable sport sedans they have ever driven. People choose to ignore that! If the IS 350 is too soft for some people, that is completely understandable, but what turns my crank is when people dismiss it entirely. I, personally, don't feel that is a fair assessment of the car.

Anyways, that is my rant... for the rest of the day!

mikegiller

Believe me, I have driven the IS 350 during veeeery spirited driving! The tires were burning nicely after. Mmmm the smell of burning rubber! In fact, it shifted very quickly when I used the paddle shifters. Even when downshifting it shifted quickly. One gripe. When I want it to shift at certain points, it would not let me. It would beep and then I would have to wait. That was sad.

On advantage the VDIM has in the IS 350 is that even with RWD and 306 hp, it can handle winter weather. If only there was a simple way to disable it.

texasmerq

Those moments when you try to shift and it doesn't is what I was talking about, it pisses a lot of people off, and has me personally questioning the logic in including a manual mode that doesn't work correctly all the time. I could see if the shift would damage the transmission or the engine, but that wasn't the case in many of the scenarios I've heard and experienced. Like I said the transmission issues need to be fixed or they should scrap it for a better performing one.

As for VDIM and any traction/ stability control system I can see it's merits on a passenger car, but the reality is that it isn't really needed for drivers with a hint of common sense. Look how many cars on the road don't have a similar system. I do agree that you shouldn't be required to know the Riverdance or do the Hokey Pokey to turn it off though.

habitat1

"The Lexus 6-speed is said to be the fastest shifting automatic ever made. It in fact, outshifts manuals, not SMGs, but manuals. I don't think they need to redesign it at all..."

Who the hell said that?? And what were they smoking, drinking or injecting beforehand? :confuse:

I have not driven the IS350, but I have driven the new GS300, with it's 6-speed automatic and was not impressed. As those who know me from these forums, I am not a fan of slushboxes, but of those I've been forced to drive, any AMG is way above Lexus and the 545i steptronic was well above the GS300.

So just who the heck "said" that, and what are their credentials? I'm no Michael Schumacher, but even I can get more out of shifting my own 6-speed than the Lexus computers can in the GS300. Schumacher, by the way, is advocating a return to traditional manuals in Formula One.

Kids these days. Too much time playing computer video games and Game Boy. Not my daughters - basketball, soccer, piano and manual transmissions.

motownusa

I agree, nothing can substitute for a true 6 speed manual transmission. For the purists, even the best automatics are nowhere near as good as a manual. Having said that, how many BMW 330i is actually sold with a manual tranny ? I would venture to guess that no more 10%. Face it, there just isn't a huge demand for manual tranny. The previous gen. IS did offer a manual transmission and some to some people that car was more fun to drive than the current IS. The way I see it, the IS is for those who want a competent car that is somewhat sporty yet extremely refined for everyday driving.

P.S. I dont think it is fair to compare the V8 powered 545 and AMG Benz to a small displacement 6 cylinder engine with relatively modest power. Even the best transmission cannot compensate for a lack of power.

dewey

would venture to guess that no more 10%.

Only 10 percent of BMW 3s with manual? OUCH!

IMHO a BMW without a stick is Big Money Wasted. Only if I was heavily sedated and coerced by gunpoint, then maybe I would buy a BMW with a slushbox.

If a person wants to drive with a slushbox, why not just buy a cruiser. Even better why not just buy a IS350.

brightness04

IMHO a BMW without a stick is Big Money Wasted.

That would be the overwhelming majority of BMW's sold in the US. Automatic accounts for some 70% of 3 series, 90%+ of 5 series and 100% of 7 series. Even the majority of M3 convertibles are automatics!

Most BMW's are purchased as daily drivers . . . as such there are many real life advantages of choosing an automatic, as kdshapiro alluded in the past. If I were looking for a weekend fun car, I would be looking for a real sports car not a sporty sedan.

If a person wants to drive with a slushbox, why not just buy a cruiser. Even better why not just buy a IS350.

I agree with your last sentence.

ivan_99

Not that I’m a defender of the IS…but I don’t consider 3.5L small or 306hp modest.

I believe, if I may speak out of turn, that habitat1 was only referring to the quickness/crispness of other transmissions, irregardless of the power-plant behind it. This was in response to the IS being called the quickest tranny…not the quickest tranny for a 6 cyl, or any other disclaimer…

dewey

That would be the overwhelming majority of BMW's sold in the US. Automatic accounts for some 70% of 3 series, 90%+ of 5 series and 100% of 7 series. Even the majority of M3 convertibles are automatics!

Well I dont mean to be a transmission judge but I just feel more connected to the road with a stick. Even in traffic jams, but that is just my personal preference and I can fully understand why most people would disagree my view.