Honda Fit

micweb

My interest in the Fit was based on the Scion xA being, in many ways, more appealing than the Toyota Corolla. Although smaller, it handled better, was sportier, and had tons of personality. I was therefore hoping the Fit would remedy the Civic blahs in the same way. Be the smaller but sportier and trendier companion to the Civic.

But the Fits I recently saw overseas were a little blah, and the City I rode in lacked the "SUV" style upright seating of the xA which gives the xA its "spacious" feel and, most importantly for me, the new Civic has such awesome specifications it pulls me away from both the Fit and Scion camps:

http://www.collegehillshonda.com/artman/publish/cat_index_7.shtml

(read the press releases link on that page, tons of engineering factoids)

At this point I don't think Honda is going to make the content on the Fit very upscale - I don't think they will "Scion-ize" it. Since the new Civic is so clearly returning to its "youth"/"sporty" roots, I think the Fit will be just what Honda is promising - a cheaper, entry level car to fend off discounting on the Civic (which was necessary in the past to keep customers from migrating to other brands). The only unique feature of the Fit at this point, to me, are the rear seats design in which the bottom part of the seat is like a tray that folds up to allow tall plants etc. to fit in behind the front seats. I don't think that is enough to justify interest in the Fit.

In other words, for pure budget, the Fit/xA/Aveo/Accent's are great, but only the xA has sex appeal, and the new Civic seems like such a barn burner that it may well be worth it to spend the extra money on the new Civic. The new Yaris for Toyota is starting to look a little too small and too slow (smaller engine, but they might surprise us).

I urge the rest of you to keep an eye on the new Civic.

txptc

Hopefully Honda will offer 2-3 versions of the Fit...DX with high mileage for the economy minded, LX for middle of the road people who want a little more power and luxury and EX or SI for those that want something that is has more performance.

makabe

Let's not forget that a Fit with a small diesel engine would be a mileage champ and have low end torque to boot. I have no idea if Honda is planning one but considering how many diesels they have in Europe it would be a natural to combat Volkswagen here in the US and abroad.

I for one, am very intrigued with what's going on with bio-diesel and veggie oil power--the sooner we get ourselves away from foreign oil dependence, the better, and what better way than growing our fuel here in the US.

odman

Imagine the mpg in a hybrid diesel. It's beyond me that no one has offered that.
Beyond the extreme mileage, it would run on battery power in the city, sparing diesel fumes.

billmchale

I think the reason we are not seeing hybrid diesels is that for the most part diesels have a bad rep with the environmental movement. Since the people most likely to spend the premium on a hybrid are not people worried about the price of gas but those worried about the general environment (something of a gross generalization), I would guess that the perception in the auto industry that a diesel hybrid would not be very popular.

georget

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rules will require that new diesel engines meet lower emission levels beginning in 2007 and will require ultra-low sulfur fuels for all on-road engines beginning in 2006.

Read article here

A small Honda diesel in a Fit would be cheep, clean and ultra efficient, especially without all the expensive Hybrid technology.

coupedncal

I just went to honda's web site and they have listed 2006 model year Accord and the base model is no longer DX which now means the starting price of Accord is now $18k +. I think it is so they can upsell the Accord and Civic and make room for Fit/Jazz model which is likely to come in at about $13k to $14k.

Did anyone else notice this too ?

backy

That makes sense. With the Civic DX (with more equipment than the '05 DX but still no A/C or radio) starting at around $14.5k and a well-equipped Civic at around $16.5k (estimated prices), $18k for the entry-level Accord is about right. And it permits the entry-level Fit to come in at about $13k, with well-equipped models at about $15-16k or so. Note that if the Fit does fit into that price range, it will be pretty close in price to the Koreans--'06 Rio and Accent in particular. Those models will run about $13k for a stick-shift car with ABS and side bags/curtains, and no power package. Automatics with power package will be close to $15k. Honda can't charge much more than $15k ($16k with automatic) for a well-equipped Fit or it will run into the Civic LX. But a Fit with moonroof and alloys could go for over $17k, since the Civic EX will run about $18.5k.

georget

I hope the base price for a Fit is close to $10k. We're talking entry level Micro cars here. The Toyota Yaris will be at that price, and I believe the Nissan Tiida will be as well.

backy

I hope you are right, but I see zero chance of that. Consider that the Fit will have ABS and side airbags and curtains standard--that adds $$$$ to the cost. Also the Fit will probably be a 5-door, while the Yaris you might be able get for $10k will be a stripped 3-door at best, based on what happened with the ECHO. If the best a Korean manufacturer like Kia can do on an entry-level 5-door hatchback with ABS, side bags, and side curtains is $13k MSRP, I seriously doubt Honda will be able to price the Fit thousands below that. If they do, they will sell out in about 15 minutes.

txptc

I agree with you...I hope they offer a stripped down version of the Fit for around 10-11 grand. I don't care if I have ABS brakes or a powerful engine...I just want a very basic, quality vehicle that gets great gas mileage...for a good price....kind of like what Honda used to offer back in the mid 80's.

makabe

My '91 Civic wagon had an MSRP of $11800 including delivery and A/C with a manual transmission. If I could get a brand new fit with A/C, a manual tranny and ABS and airbags everywhere for under $14K, I'd be an extremely happy camper. I'd rather have a Fit diesel for under $15K but I don't think that will happen any time soon.

backy

Since al Honda cars will have ABS and side bags/curtains by next year, you'll have to look elsewhere to find a basic car without those features. Maybe they will be optional on the Yaris, for instance.

raychuang00

...Will probably be around US$12,500 base MSRP and up to US$14,800 loaded, based on the fact the US-market model will likely use a larger-displacement (1.5 liters) of the new three-phase SOHC i-VTEC I-4 engine used on the 2006 Civic Hybrid plus all the standard safety equipment installed. And we also have to factor in the fact Honda's first year production for the USA market comes from Japan.

backy

That will give the Korean manufacturers a jolt: Honda offering Japan-assembled cars with comparable size/features at a lower price!

georget

I believe Honda is willing to loose money on this car in order to regain its foothold as the #1 entry level car in America & Canada. Their past history has proven that once a Honda owner, always a Honda owner.

I

smlcarguy

Hi: First msg & total rookie at groups like this but here goes. I'm looking for the best mpg and great versatility in a small car and just heard Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris h.b. both coming to Canada, with Yaris sooner. Also heard Echo sedan totally revised and keeps name. Any opinions and links on all 3 of these? I'd rather buy sooner than later unless Fit is definitely worth waiting for but haven’t even heard official engines and mpg etc on any and if still no word by time Yaris/Echo is out then decision time, buy or wait??? :confuse:
p.s. How do you get "Canadian flag" to show beside your msgs? :confuse:

kennyray

Honda may have some problems selling the Fit and the biggest is that it is not near as good looking as the Yaris. Additionally, Honda can’t seem to understand that most people in the country want AC and a CD player. The bottom-of-the-line Corolla (CE) comes with both AC and a CD player. Buy the time I could have gotten into a comparable Civic, it would have been $1500 bucks more – I bought the Toyota (and this from a die-hard Honda owner and fan). I looked at the Echo, but it also used the Honda marketing strategy of being just a little too stripped down. By the time I added AC and a CD player to the Echo, it just didn’t make any sense getting it over the larger, more powerful, and nearly as fuel-efficient Corolla. So far the ‘Rolla has been great – with nearly 67K on the odometer and nearly 40 mpg, and that isn’t going gently into the night either, I’ve done little but oil and filters.

Fact is that the car biz is very competitive both in terms of price points, features and styling. I personally wrote Honda several times to encourage them to bring in the Fit – now that they are finally getting off their kiesters I see that Toyota hasn’t been sleeping! Hopefully we will get the re-skinned Fit (I’ve seen some cool Fit next-gen artwork).

Plus, the 1.3 L version sold in Japan gets 54.5 mpg (OK, maybe their test is a little different), but that’s not the model they’re sending us [apparently]. The reason most folks will be looking at this part of the market segment is cheap, reliable transportation. Gas mileage is going to become a more significant factor as time goes on. I hope they will give us the choice between the 1.3 and 1.5 L engines (1.4 in Europe – can’t they make up their minds?)

They got to throw us bone for downsizing – high mpg and a high fun-factor. Right now I’m leaning toward the Yaris.

boomchek

The Yaris is already out in Canada, it's just called the Echo hatchback.

The Fit will be out in around March, but there are no official Honda links or pricing available yet.

Go to Accounts or Forums Profile to change the flag I think

bostonjazz

Hello everyone. I am also a first-time poster and incidentally know very little about cars, but wanted to throw in a comment as my wife and I are very excited about the anticipated Spring 2006 arrival of the Jazz/Fit in the U.S. Through Google News, we have been following all the international news about the car over the last 1-2 months and visiting this forum regularly, which I'd note appears to be the de facto source of intelligence on the Jazz/Fit.

We fell in love with the Jazz while visiting family in Europe this summer. We had noticed them (and the Yaris) all over and hadn't taken much notice, until we went with one of our relatives to pick up their new Jazz at the dealership and had a chance to ride in, inspect, and test drive it.

In our opinion, the car is nothing like anything we know of on the U.S. market - we were very impressed with the INTERIOR SPACE, in particular, which is highlighted on some of the Asian review sites. One of our relatives is 6'6" and sat quite comfortably in the front of the car; I, meanwhile, fit myself comfortably in the trunk!

We have been considering a new car for a while now, researching some options: our primary concern is VALUE, and as part of that, FUEL ECONOMY. As many here have noted, the Jazz's (Fit) fuel economy could come in at 38,40,45 mpg depending on the engine. We'd vote with others for the 1.3L. Who needs the extra power? We can't figure out why people are driving around gas-guzzling SUVs.

Given what gas prices are, we'd buy a new car next week, but are holding out for the Jazz (our current sedan is in great shape at 85k miles, but gets only 20 mpg).

We're considering the Hyundai Elantra, Scion XA, etc. but would really prefer a hatchback for our active lifestyle, and the Honda name gives the car great credibility, resale value, and reliability. Not to mention that this car, in its combination of features and values (at least in Europe and Japan) seems to embody exactly what we are looking for.

Does anyone know how the North American Yaris might compare to the Jazz that we'll get? I suspect the Yaris does not make as much economical use of the interior and trunk space, but we'd certainly consider it. We're also going to take a look at the new Civic, and the Kia Spectra5 (?) seems to be worth considering. Given the positions of all these competitors, my guess - again, a fairly uneducated one - is that the Jazz/Fit should come in around $12k base. I would think Honda is competing for those of us who are looking at many of Hyundai's models (or the Ford Focus, which we wouldn't even consider with the massive employee discounts). The real question, as another poster noted, is how much "premium" compared to "cheap" features they include.

- Given that the release of the Jazz (Fit - a name that sounds silly) is slated for "Q1 2006" or "Spring" as I have seen cited, any guesses on what month this might be? (March?) Backing up from that date, when might Honda dealers get advance specs? I suspect some folks might post details they can uncover here? Do you think the Jazz/Fit will be unveiled at any upcoming auto shows this Fall/Winter?

I suspect many of these things are dictated by the "standard" auto promotion and model year release schedule, which I"ll be the first to admit I'm not familiar with.

We'll keep you up to date on what we hear from our local Honda dealers as we keep checking in.

In the meantime, here is a link (apologize if I found it here) from yesterday re: the small Japanese cars coming to North America:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/09/small_japanese.php

smlcarguy

The 2006 Yaris is not out in Winnipeg, Canada, yet.

The 2005 Echo hatchback may be the "older" Yaris variant possibly, if thats what you mean but i emailed Toyota directly before and they replied ..."With regard to your inquiry, the Echo Sedan will undergo a complete model change, while the Echo Hatchback as well will be undergoing a full model and name change. It will be the Yaris model."

boomchek

That clears things up, I thought you meant the 2005 Yaris/Echo.

raychuang00

...The reason why I mentioned a higher-displacement version of the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine used on the 2006 Civic Hybrid is that in 1.3-liter form, the engine already generates 93 bhp (SAE 08/04 net). In 1.5-liter form, this engine will likely generate almost 110 bhp (SAE 08/04 net), which means the engine matches the output of the 1.5-liter L15 engine used on higher-end JDM Fits, but because of its i-VTEC design, will probably sport almost the same fuel efficiency as the 1.4-liter i-DSI I-4 engine sold on most Fit/Jazz models sold around the world.

By definition, American drivers prefer more powerful engines, so my suggested engine fills the bill neatly for its use on the US-market Fit.

kernick

you: We'd vote with others for the 1.3L. Who needs the extra power?

me: I just drove the Merritt Pkwy. in CT the other day. It's 2 lanes of heavy traffic at 60mph, and if you want to get on you better be able to accelerate from those Stop signs.

you: We can't figure out why people are driving around gas-guzzling SUVs.

me: check out the NHTSA and IIHS websites, and you'll see a very good reason if you consider you could be in an accident. Larger vehicles fare better in an accident. In a Yaris or a Fit you are almost always going to be the smaller vehicle and suffer the worse. If you only "see sunny days", then you don't worry about buying a small vehicle. I'm interested in a Yaris or a Fit, but I have no illusions that I would be compromising safety compared to a larger, more powerful, better performance (especially braking) vehicle.

bostonjazz

I don't disagree that larger, more powerful cars are safer - these are certainly trade-offs with any small car.

In others news, a recent article from BusinessWeek re: Honda's strategy and the Civic mentions the Fit as key to Honda's future growth and references the potential cannibalization of Civic sales:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_38/b3951074.htm

The 57 mpg reference was interesting; that seems high for even the British Jazz's measured in "imperial gallons"...

dudleyr

Overall those big SUV's are not safer than a standard sedan. They flip much more often, trip on guard rails, fare much worse in crashes into fixed immovable objects, and don't handle nearly as well to avoid some accidents.

If more people bought cars like the fit instead of SUV's there would be more parity on the roads, and fewer accidents between such differently sized vehicles and the roads would be safer in general.

Thank goodness gas prices are going up - may help a little.

kernick

The speed limits on the roads in this country are set low enough such that SUV's are very safe when driven within the law. Those speed limits are set so low that panel trucks, school buses, and 18-wheelers can safely negotiate the roads. Many accidents occur when people push their vehicles into illegal or unsafe maneuvers - speeding, weaving lanes, and such. Yes you can't drive SUV's and PU's like cars, but they are not going to tip over if driven within the laws. This of course does not mean that someone on a cellphone not paying attention, isn't going to drive off the road. A driver who is paying attention and following the laws can drive any type of vehicle they are licensed for safely.

Now considering safety from those who aren't paying attention or driving illegally, you are better off in a vehicle with more mass, all else being equal.

you: If more people bought cars like the fit instead of SUV's there would be more parity on the roads, and fewer accidents between such differently sized vehicles and the roads would be safer in general.

me: agree that is a BIG problem. Though many people would argue that it is the small vehicles that should become larger, as many large vehicles - buses, trucks, and PU's are necessary. I wish we could all drive go-karts but that is a dream; reality is that small vehicle owners are at a distinct safety disadvantage.

fdanna

"The speed limits on the roads in this country are set low enough such that SUV's are very safe when driven within the law"

That's a ridiculously ignorant statement. You can easily flip an SUV without stability control at 30 MPH if you're making an evasive maneuver, never mind 65 MPH. Clearly someone taking action to avoid a crash is driving well within the law. By your argument, we shouldn't need seatbelts either because if we all followed the rules as laid out by the wise and powerful government, there would never be any crashes. Accidents never happen when people follow the rules, right? Ya, ok.

However, this forum is not about SUVs it's about the Honda Jazz/Fit. It's likely to be a well-made safe alternative for people who are looking for better-than-basic, but not-quite-luxury transporation. It's also for people who are secure enough in themselves to feel that they don't need a behomoth of a vechicle to compensate for other shortcomings or defects in their personality.

micweb

I visited a Honda dealer this weekend and sat in, but did not drive, the new Civic Sedan LX trim. A nice car, typical Honda quality, but really pretty retro in a sense - low seating, reduced (compared to last year) interior room, very aggressively sloped windshield and rear window to give it a raked look - where is the quirky innovation of cars like the Scion xA, xB, the Yaris, the Mazda5 etc.? The xB is a wonderful example of thinking outside the box (or, literally, thinking into a box) - how do you get maximum functionality in a small space?

Honda now makes the ultimate "tuner" car - the 2006 Civic - but will it make people looking for maximum efficiency happy? They reduced the interior space, the trunk uses hinges, the only innovative thinking is the flat rear floor. That's backward looking, not forward looking. An LED speedometer? I thought we had gotten past gadgetry in favor of functionality.

I hate to say it, but my 2005 Focus ZX3 hatchback, a 1999 design, is a better package, in terms of basic efficiency, than the new Civic, and a lot cheaper.

Honda is stuck with the blahs. Only the Element strikes me as quirky and forward looking. Let's see what the Fit looks like. I like the link I read posted here, where the goal of the Fit is to be smaller than the Civic on the outside, but bigger on the inside. I wish Honda had thought to make the Civic the same size outside (or a little bigger) than before, but larger (more Accord-like) on the inside. THAT would have been innovative with gas prices what they are.

BTW, I have no grievance with what they are doing with the coupe - making it smaller and swoopier is fine for its target audience of single people. But, what were they thinking of, with the sedan (did I mention the 17.9k sticker price for the LX auto?).

hungarian83

Considering Honda's "Safety for Everyone" campaign in the United States, I am sure that the Jazz/Fit will be very well equipped with not only the mandatory two front airbags, but side airbags, and curtain airbags as well.

The current generation Jazz has scored well in the Euro/NCAP crash tests, and in Honda's own in-house testing. The version (next generation?) sold in the United States will most likely be even safer.

Regarding small vs. large cars. Although based on physics, a smaller vehicle would receive more of an impact from a large vehicle than vice-versa, the design of the car, and its ability to absorb the impact of a collision is the most important.
If a large vehicle cannot properly absorb the impact of an accident, it means the driver and passengers will have to. However, a car (even if small) that crushes properly in a collision, but still can maintain a "safety cage" is much safer. The idea is not to ram your way through the other car in the event of an accident.
If Honda is going to sell a subcompact in the United States, I am sure they are going to account for the possibility of a collision with an SUV or lorry and make the appropriate safety modifications.

I found a Honda link with some images of a Jazz in a frontal-offset collision with a much larger/heavier Honda Legend (Acura RL in US). All things considered, the Jazz performs very well. I apologize the link is not in English, but the pictures should speak for themselves.
http://www.honda.hu/galeria.php?act=biztonsag&ect=auto

backy

Isn't "Safety for Everyone" the marketing slogan for Hyundai?

The Fit will not only have the side bags/curtains in the U.S., but ABS also. Honda has committed to having all those safety features on all its cars by the end of 2006.

odman

Sure, it's comparing the old with the old, but until we get some real news this is all we have. The British magazine What Car? has their annual New Car Guide out. They give 4 out of 5 stars to the Jazz, but three to the Yaris (I searched and couldn't find ANY that got 5 stars).

Jazz beats Yaris in performance, ride & handlng, and space & practicality. They complain about road noise and a firm ride but say that few others in the class offer a better drive or versatility. (yes, the Jazz is a bit pricier than Yaris, so you'd expect it to be better). See their summary here, but click on the Reader Reviews for interesting, real world commentary.

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/RoadTest_FullVerdict.asp?DL=0&RT=212409

raychuang00

Jazz beats Yaris in performance, ride & handlng, and space & practicality.

But is it the old Yaris or new Yaris? :confuse: I'm sure the new Yaris that just debuted at the Frankfurt Auto Show will be more refined and be a better competitor against the Honda Fit/Jazz.

micweb

Great link, thanks!

These comments were of interest to me:

Most of the cabin materials are now up to Volkswagen standards and the quality of assembly is superb.

My guess is, they are comparing it to the Polo, which is still a high standard. Without a doubt, VW is the target to aim for in terms of materials.

You sit quite high up in the Jazz.... The view forwards is similar to that found in a baby MPV.

That is what I am lookind for, the new Civic disappoints me with its "old school" low slung seating. I have totally gotten used to Echo/VW Golf/Ford Focus style upright seating. When I first drove a Toyota Echo, I was afraid it - or I - would tip over.

For a relatively short small car the Jazz offers impressive cabin space and there’s a large boot. The rear seats either fold flat to create a long deck or their cushions tip backwards, leaving a floor-to-ceiling space big enough for two bikes, if their front wheels are removed.

Wow, that's the type of creativity I am looking for.

I am hoping the generation of the Fit/Jazz that makes it over here is larger than the ones I saw overseas. The overseas versions are Scion xA sized, and after 10,000 miles I found my Scion xA just a little too small for my taste - it had a short 93" wheelbase which made the ride choppy, hardly any "boot" (trunk), and was on the narrow side of things. It nevertheless felt roomier in the driver's seat than my former or subsequent Golf! On the other hand, that engine Toyota drops in their xB's and xA's is one of the weakest out there in this segment.

The new Yaris, based on the Toyota website up and running now, looks like a disaster - everything you'd really want is an option, the car is downmarket. Let's hope Honda doesn't make the same mistake - let's hope they pattern after the Scion xA (tons of standard equipment) and not the Echo/Yaris (stripper 10k cars to compete with Aveo).

Given that the new Civic is so darned expensive, they can easily introduce the Fit at $13-14k with side curtain/side torso airbags, a nice interior, and ABS without cannibalizing Civic sales. Also, the two cars now have quite different personalities. The new Civic looks like a shrunken BMW 545....

odman

Raychung: sorry if I wasn't clear, it's the old (current) Yaris/Echo hatch, not the new one. The new one isn't out yet, it's just in pictures.

Micweb: My thoughts exactly on the sit high perspective. I'm 6'5" and hate low cars. The Echo is great in that regard and the Focus/Vibe aren't too bad. The Fit should be great. I also am excited by the flexibility. For a car with such a small footprint, it can swallow a lot! What I liked about the link was the reader comments -- most of them seemed delighted with the versatility and efficiency of their cars. It's one thing for an auto writer to copy it off the press release, but when I see real world people echoing it in their own words, I believe it more.

I can't wait for the Civic launch to be over with so we can finally get on with this much more interesting car!

bostonjazz

Finally some new Fit coverage in the media. Again, nothing revolutionary, but here's an article in Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/20/toyota-asianautomakers-newcars-cz_jf_0920flint.html

"Honda is one of the companies trying to make inroads in minicars, as the 21st century Honda Civic is no longer small or inexpensive. Come next spring or summer, Honda brings in a version of a car, which, in Japan, is called the Fit. This is a little car, only 152-inches long for the Japanese-market version, compared with 161 inches for a Volkswagen New Beetle. In contrast, the Focus from Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) is 175 inches long. OK, the BMW Mini measures just 143 inches, but that's an exception in the U.S. market.

The Honda Fit carries a 1.5-liter engine, and that is likely to come here, too, with about 100 horsepower. It should deliver around 40 miles per gallon on the highway. With regular grade gasoline selling for $3 per gallon or more, there's a chance that Honda's new entry could gain traction in the U.S. "

The article goes on to talk about the Scion, Echo, Sentra, etc.

georget

Thanks for the article! I probably check this forum 3 time a day and the message counter has been stuck on #547 forever. The closer we get to the Auto Shows in January, more info will leak out.

I read this on www.fitfreak.net

"Here's what I've found out from a friend that works for AHM.

- It will be called the Fit.

- The Fit will debut in the Detroit Auto Show in January 2006 and go on sale immediately afterwards.

- It will officially arrive at dealers in March 2006.

- There will be two trim models... base at $13K and sport at $15K (addition of foglights and body kit).

- Honda is set to make a huge marketing push on the Fit, as it is doing with the new Civic.

My friend at AHM has given me accurate information in the past so I believe him."

backy

Honda is set to make a huge marketing push on the Fit

That sounds like Toyota's big marketing push for the 2004 Prius--total waste of marketing dollars! With gas near $3 a gallon, I think a high-quality, veratile, economical, low-cost car like the Fit will sell out on its own merits, word-of-mouth, and magazine reviews.

georget

Backy said;

"That sounds like Toyota's big marketing push for the 2004 Prius--total waste of marketing dollars! With gas near $3 a gallon, I think a high-quality, veratile, economical, low-cost car like the Fit will sell out on its own merits, word-of-mouth, and magazine reviews."

I totally agree. Like in the movie "Jerry Maguire", they had me at 50mpg.

raychuang00

...If pictures I've seen of the Fit are correct, the back seat configuration will be nothing short of amazing.

Imagine folding the back seat forward for a totally flat floor from the rear hatch all the way to the front seats. Also, the rear seat bottoms can be folded upwards create a large cargo holding area, enough to easily fit (pun intended) bicycles in there.

We do know that the CVT-7 automatic will be available on this car; however, still unknown is what kind of engine will we get. I'm holding out for the 1.5-liter version of the SOHC i-VTEC engine found on the 2006 Civic Hybrid, though the L15A with the i-DSI dual-spark plug cylinder head (found on Jazz/Fit Aria models sold in Southeast Asia) could be what we get.

hungarian83

I have heard a lot about the US-market Fit receiving a CVT automatic transmission, but nothing about a manual transmission. This is a silly question, but is the CVT going to be the only transmission available? I would find this hard to believe, but many US Honda models (mostly the larger ones, but even the 2006 Civic Hybrid) are available with automatic as standard equipment.

georget

I have not heard anything, but a manual gear box has to be cheaper to install than a CVT automatic, at least for right now. Honda is shooting for the lowest price point, but I know what you are saying. The CVT is showing up a lot. It may be more economical for Honda to just offer one bullet proof transmission for all of its vehicles.

billmchale

I imagine there will be a manual. Honda wants to market this to the same audience that Scion is going after. While alot of younger drivers only drive automatics, alot in the tuner crowd do in fact drive manuals.

thegraduate

No, it is found in multiple Honda ads.

thegraduate

In the "Forbes" article on the fit, it estimates 100 horsepower and 40mpg highway. Surely Honda can beat that! I was expecting the 100-110 hp (like accent/rio) but I also hoped for better economy than the heavier, more powerful civic! Any thoughts? :confuse:

backy

You are right! Maybe Hyundai is trying to co-opt the message...

micweb

The new Civic has some neat technological tricks that allow Honda to claim it sips gas like a 1.5 but performs like a 2.0 (actual engine size is 1.8). These features weren't available on prior generations of the Civic (which grew from 1.6 to 1.7) and are not likely to be available on the Fit, at least initially, due to cost. Plus, I suspect, a fear of cannibalizing sales of the Civic.

Imagine if Honda applied the same technological tricks to the 1.5 in the Fit - would it then become a car that sips gas like a 1.3 and performs like a 1.8? Cool, if possible.

I know the Scion xA has an engine that is very technologically advanced - 10:1 compression ratio, intelligent variable valve timing, a cut out in the muffler to open up the exhaust at high rpm - yet despite all that, and a "relaxed" emission level (one of the worst emissions levels for small cars out there) - it pulls like a 1.3 instead of like the 1.5 it is, and although rated for 38 mpg never gave me better than 35. So I wouldn't expect a lot better from the Civic - Toyota and Honda tend to run neck and neck in performance and mpg, and I suspect the new Fit is going to be very similar to the existing Scion xA in terms of size, weight, and aerodynamic resistance.

raychuang00

The new Civic has some neat technological tricks that allow Honda to claim it sips gas like a 1.5 but performs like a 2.0 (actual engine size is 1.8). These features weren't available on prior generations of the Civic (which grew from 1.6 to 1.7) and are not likely to be available on the Fit, at least initially, due to cost. Plus, I suspect, a fear of cannibalizing sales of the Civic.

A couple of things:

1. No one has confirmed what kind of engine the US-market Fit will use. I still say the 1.5-liter version of the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine used on the 2006 Civic Hybrid sedan is a strong candidate given the fact the first-generation Civic Hybrids essentially used the 1.3-liter i-DSI engine from the Fit as part of the IMA hybrid drivetrain. With the 1.5-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine, I can see about 108 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) power with fuel efficiency like the i-DSI engine I mentioned.

2. I doubt the Fit will cannibalize Civic sales, given that the Fit is aimed as an entry-level car and a urban commuter car. It will certainly sell in California, that's to be sure.

hungarian83

I doubt the Fit will cannibalize Civic sales

In 2002 (the first official sales of the Jazz in Europe), Honda sold over 43 000 Jazz cars, but the number of Civics sold dropped from 83 000 (in 2001) to 78 000. However, in 2004 they sold 71 000 Jazz and the Civic went back up to 84 000 units. In other words...not much of an impact, especially if you consider that the Civic sales have been declining anyway since the record in 1997 of 160 000 units.

Even if there is some cannibalization of sales from the Civic in the US it won't be significant. Also don't forget that Honda only sells 2 and 4 door Civics in the US. The Fit would be a valuable addition as the only hatchback car in the entire US Honda line-up. The Civic has grown-up a lot with the new redesign and a relatively well-equipped model (the LX in my opinion) is US$17.000 and therefore out of the price range for many buyers.

...and regarding power, 100 hp for a car this small is plenty.

plekto

100HP is plenty if you have a manual transmission. That's about the same power to weight ratio as a stock Mini, which is what it should be compared to.(basically a slightly bigger Mini - seats 4 and gets great mileage)

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/honda-jazz-79.html
It's cute and is going to basically be a more civilized, useable Mini.

Cooper: 2524 lbs/115 HP/111 Torque
Turning Circle:34.8 Ft(my old Volvo 240 could equal this, btw)
Length: 143.1 in. Width: 66.5 in.
Height: 55.4 in. Wheel Base: 97.1 in.
Luggage Capacity: 5.3 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 24 cu. ft.
Manual: 28 mpg / 36 mpg
No towing capability.
1HP/21.95 lbs

Fit:
2295 lbs/111 HP/119 Torque(bigger engine that the U.S. will get)
Turning Circle: 29.2 ft.(!!!!)
Length: 150.8 in. Width: 66.0 in.
Height: 60.0 in. Wheel Base: 96.5 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.5 cu. ft Maximum Cargo Capacity: 30 cu. ft
Manual: 32.22mpg/46.13mpg(US Gallons, converted)
2200lb Towing Capability(with brakes on the trailer), 1000 lbs without
1HP/20.7 lbs

As you can see, it's very close the the Mini in width, wheel base, and only a bit longer and taller. 5-6 inches longer and taller. 99% of people would see them side by side and put them in the same category of car, size-wise.

The Fit has gobs more cargo room, can tow, and a *5.6 FOOT SMALLER TURNING RADIUS!* This little car will run circles around a mini in terms of handling, even with a softer suspension.
Btw, 30ft is the width of the smallest 2 lane roads. Imagine never having to do a 3 point turn again. This is the smallest turning radius in any car in the U.S., btw. Watch tuners turn this into a serious autocross machine.

Note the power to weight ratios. It will out-accelerate a Stock Mini, which isn't a slouch by any means. Honda has a definite winner on its hands.

Oh... Did I mention $5K less MSRP?